My alternatives to living in Peru

Answers to your qestions about moving to and living in Peru,

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mrsteak
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My alternatives to living in Peru

Postby mrsteak » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:39 am

Hi

I will assemble a short list of countries in South America and around, that I think are or could be serious alternatives for expats currently living in Peru. I consider Peru to be a place that is going down the hill actually and I'm doing my due diligence on potential alternative places, should the things in Peru become really bad.

I do not advocate any of these places for YOU. I just share my findings. I'm also not (yet) living in any of these places. I neither advocate any specific lawyer there, nor I work for/with any of these "immigration lawyers". I had contacts with some lawyers and had already to pay for some of the info that I'm sharing here. Anyway you will have to investigate yourself whether the countries might be "livable" for you. It may depend also on your personal and professional situation.

Feedback is welcome :D


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Re: My alternatives to living in Peru

Postby mrsteak » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:00 am

URUGUAY

Becoming resident of Uruguay is quite straight. Being a latin american country, expect the bureaucracy be rather high on this (slow and not well organized however the rquirements are NOT really high).

Option 1 that I have found: you have to prove an income of at least 500 USD/m from foreign sources (NOT paid by anything in Uruguay). E.g. a rent. A pension. etc. The law says it is a minimum of 500 USD however the immigration is getting picky on that nowadays. They will ask you to show around 800 USD (typical latin american, there is law but it is "interpreted", usually to your disadvantage).

Option 2: if you have a passport from any Mercosur country, income requirements are waived. And the residence permit is issued within no more than 30 days (law since 2016). So if you have e.g. a peruvian wife, this may be an option for you (she will get it straight and you will get it by her).

The other paperwork required is: clean police record from your country and place of live last 5 years. AND birth certificate. If you take relatives with you, same for all them.

You have to apply in Montevideo.

Pros: if you are fluent in Spanish then it will be easy for you. The infrastructure is good. Good roads. Good internet speed. Remote areas or new settlements may still not have paved roads. Crime rates one of the lowest in all South America (only Chile is safer). Not so corrupt (if you prefer the country to not be corrupt). You can find a nice home, single family home, around 100-150.000 USD. And the construction is usually quite good.
Pro: education.
Pro: not lot of congestion. You will be able to live 30km from the coast and reach the coast in 15 minutes (not like lima, a 30 km ride takes you hours).
Pro: real estate prices dropped a lot.
Pro: better and more stable banks than in Peru.
Pro: you will be usually granted tax-free status for 5 years.

Cons: expensive. However, if you live in Miraflores, San Isidro etc you may even find Uruguay to be a cheaper place to live than Peru. Depends. Another con: lot of bureaucracy however not corrupt like Peru so you wont be able to avoid bureaucracy just by paying bribes :mrgreen:
Construction laws are somehow ridiculous.
Another con: some areas have lots of mosquitos.
Another con for me: many areas have lots of dogs. Some owner-less dogs.

Climate has seasons. Not very hot from March to Nov. May be very hot in the summer.
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Re: My alternatives to living in Peru

Postby mrsteak » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:13 am

PARAGUAY


There are some very low-profile options to live in Paraguay.

Again: you can go by your peruvian wife/husband. Or second option: economic solvency option. All you have to show is a deposit of currently 5.000 USD (yes five thousand!) into a bank in Paraguay. Besides of this same paperwork as Uruguay.

Imagine Paraguay being rather a kind of remote province of Brasil. Similar landscape, climate etc like lets say Mato Groso.

Pros: very cheap. Spanish. Cheap real estate. You can find a single family home for as little as 30.000 USD. Construction is BETTER than in Peru. I would say LOT better.
Pro: not so many complex laws.
Pro: very low taxes.
Pro: no earthquakes.

Cons: being rather part of Brasil by culture and mentality.... lot of crime. Twice as much as Uruguay. Lot of corruption. Infrastructure more like Peru.
Con: all the diseases you can find in the south american tropical countries. Dengue, yellow fever, even malaria.
Con: very hot. Mostly >30°C all over the year (a con for me).
Con: no beach :(
Con: education

I'm dunno about Internet there and electricity supply there. I suppose it is not so well. You may see outages from time to time.
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Re: My alternatives to living in Peru

Postby mrsteak » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:41 am

PANAMA


There are low profile options to live in Panama. I have basically found 3 (from high profile to low profile):

1. investment of 300.000 USD into real estate. You are allowed to live in the real estate it does not need to be rented to third party. Basically: buy your own home for at least 300k and you become resident.

2. investment of 60.000 USD into agriculture project / company. This visa is limited to 6 years then, however you can renew it. I would say it easily beats the inversionista visa now in Peru, that requires now 170.000 USD.... wtf

3. if you come from one of 50 countries defined as "paises amigos de Panama", the requirement for residency is as low as a deposit of 5.000 USD (+ 1000 more for any dependent) into a Panama bank account. YES, five thousand bucks! The countries on the list are EU/North America and some few others. NOT Peru. If you have only Peru passports it won't work for you.

The paperwork is similar to Uruguay/Paraguay, however you will NOT need a birth certificate (for those of you that were not born). All investment options will require proper proof, done by a lawyer in Panama.

The bureaucracy is usually HIGH in Panama.

Pros: real estate cheaper than Peru
Spanish
Not really lot of crime, even if the statistics suggests that it is dangerous. Not in Panama City
good infrastructure.
Construction quality is usually good. (no sticking iron bars like Peru lol)
Good high speed Internet. Good electric grid.
Pro: you can be tax free, depending on the nature of your business and the turnover.
Elaborate banking system (yeah Panama papers)
Pro: major airline hub. You will have lot of options to travel from and to Panama to the neighbourhood as well as to US.
Pro: education
Pro: usually quite good salaries, for skilled workers, if you want to find a contract from a local company.
Pro: tax free shopping zone at Colon!

Cons: expensive to live. High daily life costs.
Very hot. Tropical all the year.
Not good for shady business (lol for some of you). Do not expect to come from shopping in Miami and hide some goods in your bags and customs will not bother you. If they find something they WILL fine you, confiscate not declared goods and maybe even deportate you. Is not like peru where you can "conversate" with customs and negotiate the "fine". Got my point...
Con: again all the tropical diseases like Paraguay present in the country. Lots of mosquitos.
Con: narcotraffic transit country
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Re: My alternatives to living in Peru

Postby mrsteak » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:42 am

I have few more on my list but before I type more here, I would like your feedback :roll:
Formidable 1
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Re: My alternatives to living in Peru

Postby Formidable 1 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:18 pm

Boquete Panama has cooler temps but more expensive than the capitol.

Panama uses the U.S. dollar as their currency.
Another plus.
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Re: My alternatives to living in Peru

Postby Alpineprince » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:39 pm

We are going up to Florida in two years and plan to live their for 5 years before coming back to Peru. If something changes here, we will just go someplace else.
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Re: My alternatives to living in Peru

Postby mrsteak » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:50 pm

Formidable1: Panama does not use USD as currency... they have Balboa Dollar, however it is tied 1:1 to USD (yet).
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Re: My alternatives to living in Peru

Postby Formidable 1 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:12 pm

Since the U.S. built the canal, Panama should be another American state. Shoulda never gave it to them to control.
Thanks, Jimmy.

Walking around the PC hoods, I felt like I was in a Miami barrio.
Really Americanized.
mrsteak
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Re: My alternatives to living in Peru

Postby mrsteak » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:55 pm

Formidable 1 wrote:Walking around the PC hoods, I felt like I was in a Miami barrio.
Really Americanized.


yeah quite a lot.... looking familiar. Is that good or bad :shock:
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Alan
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Re: My alternatives to living in Peru

Postby Alan » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:13 pm

mrsteak wrote:I have few more on my list but before I type more here, I would like your feedback :roll:


I don't share your negative outlook on Peru and believe that while things aren't great, they are far from disastrous. But who really knows.. it is very difficult to predict anything here (or in the countries you have mentioned, for that matter).. But I for one enjoy reading about the alternatives you present. Keep 'em coming! It is really interesting.
mrsteak
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Re: My alternatives to living in Peru

Postby mrsteak » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:04 pm

I forgot to mention: all 3 countries will require medical exam done in the country. The depth of the checkup will depend on the country and probably the place that does it. In Uruguay they will check your blood for some STDs. No idea about Panama or Paraguay.
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Re: My alternatives to living in Peru

Postby Slippin' Jimmy » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:31 pm

I like Colombia but would live only in Bogota for climatological reasons.
The coastal regions are simply dreadful.
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Re: My alternatives to living in Peru

Postby mrsteak » Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:19 pm

one more....

BELIZE

Immigration to Belize is possible with quite low requirements but the process is painful. The way you have to do it is the following:

https://internationalliving.com/countries/belize/belize-visa-and-residency-information/

So basically expect to have to go to immigration every 4 weeks and pay for extension. You may be asked to leave the country after 6 months and then to come back. After 12 months you may apply for residency, however you will be again obliged to stamp your passport every 4 weeks. As the page says it may take very long to get a response... so expect to be stamping your passport between 2-5 years until you get approved for permanent residence.

Pros: english speaking. Better culture being a former part of the Commonwealth
affordable real estate. Expect to find a good house for around 150.000 USD. 200.000 buys you a prime location.
cost of living likely affordable (did not check recently but it would be around peruvian cost of living or even lower).
expect your 200.000 USD house to cost you between 50-100 USD in RE taxes per year.
Nice beaches. You will feel like in Bahamas but at half of the price...

Cons: crime rates high
very hot as all caribbean
a quite small place.
lot of bugs
Last edited by mrsteak on Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mrsteak
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Re: My alternatives to living in Peru

Postby mrsteak » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:04 pm

one more one more.... honestly I do not have :D

I'm looking at Ecuador too, but my due diligence is not yet finished. At least the climate looks nice...
mrsteak
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Re: My alternatives to living in Peru

Postby mrsteak » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:09 pm

Slippin' Jimmy wrote:I like Colombia but would live only in Bogota for climatological reasons.
The coastal regions are simply dreadful.


Agree... however, Bogota sounds kind of similar trouble as Lima. A friend of me (Peruvian) wants to move to Medellin.....well, apparently the narcos are now not that much prevalent there. If you do not do shady business you might never take notice of them. Is what he says.

I would personally NOT go to live in Brasil. Not in Bolivia. Not in Mexico. Investigating Argentina too, after they did some economic changes maybe it is worth considering. I've heard it is quite cheap in AR.
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Re: My alternatives to living in Peru

Postby Slippin' Jimmy » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:06 pm

Or sometimes you're in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I had just exchanged posts with this guy in the link below on another website.
He was in Medellin posting from a computer in the hotel lobby.
Our exchange might have been the last thing he ever wrote.

His murder was never solved.
Funny thing is he had just gotten married but for some strange reason, he was staying in a hotel instead of with his wife.
Another funny thing, he had just made his will and left everything to her.
A set up perhaps?
Hmmm?


https://colombiareports.com/police-incr ... -shooting/
mrsteak
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Re: My alternatives to living in Peru

Postby mrsteak » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:24 pm

Slippin' Jimmy wrote:Funny thing is he had just gotten married but for some strange reason, he was staying in a hotel instead of with his wife.


you will never get into the deepest end of rabbit holes like that one. And the lesson is: never put anything in the name of your wife. Put it in the name of your cat.

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