Atheist Group

Answers to your qestions about moving to, and living in, Peru,
Comet

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:43 pm

american_in_lima wrote:
Comet wrote:I have noticed that there appear to be groups here which cover almost every conceivable lifestyle....I would be interested in forming an Atheist group and hearing from like-minded people.


Let me understand this one. You want to start an Athiest group? If all members in your group agree that "God does not exist", then, what can your group really talk about on a forum? I guess you could talk about how a Thiest is really off track and how Christians and other religions impose their lifestyle upon you? Sounds like complete negativity for a group to be started on this site.

While I am for you speaking your mind, I am against any group that brings negativity to the site. The other groups here on the site, add value and are positive influences.

Interested in your thoughts.

Can I get an Amen from others on this site? LOL


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Re: Atheist Group

Postby Nano » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:05 pm

http://www.ateosenperu.org/

A Peruvian atheists group, if you're interested.
Comet

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:24 pm

american_in_lima wrote:
Comet wrote:I have noticed that there appear to be groups here which cover almost every conceivable lifestyle....I would be interested in forming an Atheist group and hearing from like-minded people.


Let me understand this one. You want to start an Athiest group? If all members in your group agree that "God does not exist", then, what can your group really talk about on a forum? I guess you could talk about how a Thiest is really off track and how Christians and other religions impose their lifestyle upon you? Sounds like complete negativity for a group to be started on this site.

While I am for you speaking your mind, I am against any group that brings negativity to the site. The other groups here on the site, add value and are positive influences.

Interested in your thoughts.

Can I get an Amen from others on this site? LOL


Atheism and morality
Sociologist Phil Zuckerman analyzed previous research on atheists and morality, and concluded that the more atheists and agnostics there are in a society, the more moral it is. Such findings included the following:[120][121]

In the U.S. states with the highest percentages of atheists, there are the fewest murders. In the most religious U.S. states, there are the most murders.
Only 0.2 % percent of U.S. prisoners are atheists.
Atheists are more tolerant towards women's and homosexuals' rights.
Atheism and secularism correlate with high levels of education, and low levels of racial prejudice.
Atheists beat their children less often than others, and more often encourage them to think independently.
In Sweden, the most secular country in the world according to Zuckerman, the charitable aid given is the highest .
A letter published in Nature in 1998 reported a survey suggesting that belief in a personal god or afterlife was at an all-time low among the members of the U.S. National Academy of Science, only 7.0% of whom believed in a personal god as compared with more than 85% of the general U.S. population.[114] In the same year, Frank Sulloway of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and Michael Shermer of California State University conducted a study which found in their polling sample of "credentialed" U.S. adults (12% had Ph.Ds and 62% were college graduates) 64% believed in God, and there was a correlation indicating that religious conviction diminished with education level.[115] An inverse correlation between religiosity and intelligence has been found by 39 studies carried out between 1927 and 2002, according to an article in Mensa Magazine.[116] These findings broadly agree with a 1958 statistical meta-analysis by Professor Michael Argyle of the University of Oxford. He analyzed seven research studies that had investigated correlation between attitude to religion and measured intelligence among school and college students from the U.S.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby Nano » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:29 pm

Comet wrote: Atheism and morality
Sociologist Phil Zuckerman analyzed previous research on atheists and morality, and concluded that the more atheists and agnostics there are in a society, the more moral it is. Such findings included the following:[120][121]

In the U.S. states with the highest percentages of atheists, there are the fewest murders. In the most religious U.S. states, there are the most murders.
Only 0.2 % percent of U.S. prisoners are atheists.
Atheists are more tolerant towards women's and homosexuals' rights.
Atheism and secularism correlate with high levels of education, and low levels of racial prejudice.
Atheists beat their children less often than others, and more often encourage them to think independently.
In Sweden, the most secular country in the world according to Zuckerman, the charitable aid given is the highest .
A letter published in Nature in 1998 reported a survey suggesting that belief in a personal god or afterlife was at an all-time low among the members of the U.S. National Academy of Science, only 7.0% of whom believed in a personal god as compared with more than 85% of the general U.S. population.[114] In the same year, Frank Sulloway of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and Michael Shermer of California State University conducted a study which found in their polling sample of "credentialed" U.S. adults (12% had Ph.Ds and 62% were college graduates) 64% believed in God, and there was a correlation indicating that religious conviction diminished with education level.[115] An inverse correlation between religiosity and intelligence has been found by 39 studies carried out between 1927 and 2002, according to an article in Mensa Magazine.[116] These findings broadly agree with a 1958 statistical meta-analysis by Professor Michael Argyle of the University of Oxford. He analyzed seven research studies that had investigated correlation between attitude to religion and measured intelligence among school and college students from the U.S.


Amen! :)
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby Polaron » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:51 pm

Why is it that common sense so often eludes us? Just look at the responses to this thread. People who have no interest in joining an atheism group had to get in their little digs, "have the last word," and/or "stir the pot" just because they have the ability to do so.

What does "Fulano de Tal" care if I am an Atheist, a Wiccan, a Taoist or (pick a religion)??? What does he care if I start a group or not? If he is not part of the group, what does he care about what goes on WITHIN the group?

Please don't reply with some spurious claim to want to protect the integrity of these Boards, because that is Kelly's job, and she is more than capable of ensuring that discussions remain on topic and appropriate.

Americorps was absolutely right in everything he said, which was plain old common sense. How is it possible that some people on here can not -- or choose not -- to understand that??

For those that might feel compelled to promulgate an I-Don't-Want-Any-Negativity harangue, I say, "good for you; now please kindly practice what you preach." We understand your claim to disliking negativity; it is not necessary to sophistically characterize others and their points of view as negative to prove your point.

If you want to have a group of your own, by all means form one, and know that you have my fullest support for success and enjoyment. As an example: Women and Wine Ladies, I do not understand your group and do not quite fit in. What you do in your group is none of my business. Nonetheless, I sincerely hope you have a blast each and every time you get together.

Finally, I think it is time for us to be honest with ourselves. Those of us who are against the idea of Atheism or an Atheist group really, truly are motivated out of prejudice and little else. The thread caused a knee-jerk reaction in some of us that demonstrated unequivocal disdain for Atheists and Atheism. Let's all try to eschew the scourge of prejudice and hate, and instead celebrate our diversity.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby americorps » Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:08 pm

I would have to hope that if someone wanted to start a Christian Group, or Muslim Group, or Jewish Group or what-have-you, that they too would be freely allowed to do so.

I will NOT be joining the group, but I will be supportive of you having the group. I suspect if you do not react so much, by and large, the group will carry on without much controversy, but when both sides keep puffing their chests, chest puffing is what you get.

Carry on
Comet

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:38 pm

americorps wrote:I would have to hope that if someone wanted to start a Christian Group, or Muslim Group, or Jewish Group or what-have-you, that they too would be freely allowed to do so.

I will NOT be joining the group, but I will be supportive of you having the group. I suspect if you do not react so much, by and large, the group will carry on without much controversy, but when both sides keep puffing their chests, chest puffing is what you get.

Carry on

I understand your point and generally agree, but it is an error to compare atheism with any of the above mentioned religious groups....atheism is not a religion...it is simply lack of belief in ANY deity or god or religion and therefore should not be likened to them...any more than you would compare it to any other group, it just so happens that many religious people fell threatened by atheism in much the same way that rascists or homophobes feel threatened by other races or lifestyles, so therefore they are most likely to comment or deride the idea. However I do appreciate your principles of fairness and tolerance...a lesson that quite a few people here could learn .
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby redrum » Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:08 pm

Comet wrote:
americorps wrote:I would have to hope that if someone wanted to start a Christian Group, or Muslim Group, or Jewish Group or what-have-you, that they too would be freely allowed to do so.

I will NOT be joining the group, but I will be supportive of you having the group. I suspect if you do not react so much, by and large, the group will carry on without much controversy, but when both sides keep puffing their chests, chest puffing is what you get.

Carry on

I understand your point and generally agree, but it is an error to compare atheism with any of the above mentioned religious groups....atheism is not a religion...it is simply lack of belief in ANY deity or god or religion and therefore should not be likened to them...any more than you would compare it to any other group, it just so happens that many religious people fell threatened by atheism in much the same way that rascists or homophobes feel threatened by other races or lifestyles, so therefore they are most likely to comment or deride the idea. However I do appreciate your principles of fairness and tolerance...a lesson that quite a few people here could learn .


so basically you dont believe in anything you cant see,or you believe in concepts that you choose to believe in such as air.
Comet

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:37 pm

redrum wrote:
Comet wrote:
americorps wrote:I would have to hope that if someone wanted to start a Christian Group, or Muslim Group, or Jewish Group or what-have-you, that they too would be freely allowed to do so.

I will NOT be joining the group, but I will be supportive of you having the group. I suspect if you do not react so much, by and large, the group will carry on without much controversy, but when both sides keep puffing their chests, chest puffing is what you get.

Carry on

I understand your point and generally agree, but it is an error to compare atheism with any of the above mentioned religious groups....atheism is not a religion...it is simply lack of belief in ANY deity or god or religion and therefore should not be likened to them...any more than you would compare it to any other group, it just so happens that many religious people fell threatened by atheism in much the same way that rascists or homophobes feel threatened by other races or lifestyles, so therefore they are most likely to comment or deride the idea. However I do appreciate your principles of fairness and tolerance...a lesson that quite a few people here could learn .


so basically you dont believe in anything you cant see,or you believe in concepts that you choose to believe in such as air.[

What ? A comment almost too stupid for words...but anyway..I believe in things that exist...kind of simple really !!!!
Xibalba

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Xibalba » Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:23 pm

Comet wrote:What ? A comment almost too stupid for words...but anyway..I believe in things that exist...kind of simple really !!!!


I will say this, Comet, you're not winning anyone over by calling others "ridiculous", "too stupid for words" or pulling the old passive-aggressive attack of calling atheists "free-thinkers" implying everyone else is some kind of slave to a hive mind.

If you want a serious atheist group, then perhaps you should have a serious conversation about it, rather than hurling insults. I have already defended you and this post, and you yourself need to step up now and show people that atheists can be rational, logical AND kind. Otherwise you just fall into the cliche that religious people already have about atheists, and you do yourself and atheism more harm than good.
Comet

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:33 pm

Xibalba wrote:
Comet wrote:What ? A comment almost too stupid for words...but anyway..I believe in things that exist...kind of simple really !!!!


I will say this, Comet, you're not winning anyone over by calling others "ridiculous", "too stupid for words" or pulling the old passive-aggressive attack of calling atheists "free-thinkers" implying everyone else is some kind of slave to a hive mind.

If you want a serious atheist group, then perhaps you should have a serious conversation about it, rather than hurling insults. I have already defended you and this post, and you yourself need to step up now and show people that atheists can be rational, logical AND kind. Otherwise you just fall into the cliche that religious people already have about atheists, and you do yourself and atheism more harm than good.


OK first of all...I did not call anyone ridiculous or too stupid for words..I said the comments were...not the same thing at all. I did not invite anyone other than atheists or interested people to post...
if people wish to make pointless or un-intelligent remarks then I am entitled to respond...as anyone else in another group would if they too were pestered by trolls !
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby stuart » Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:36 pm

So... Who'd win a fight out of Zeus, Allah and Buddha in a three-way?
Xibalba

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Xibalba » Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:39 pm

Comet wrote:
OK first of all...I did not call anyone ridiculous or too stupid for words..I said the comments were...not the same thing at all.

[snip]

I am entitled to respond...as anyone else in another group would if they too were pestered by trolls !


Semantics, but you did just call them trolls.
Xibalba

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Xibalba » Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:40 pm

stuart wrote:So... Who'd win a fight out of Zeus, Allah and Buddha in a three-way?



Buddha would lose, while smiling.
Comet

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:46 pm

Xibalba wrote:
Comet wrote:
OK first of all...I did not call anyone ridiculous or too stupid for words..I said the comments were...not the same thing at all.

[snip]

I am entitled to respond...as anyone else in another group would if they too were pestered by trolls !


Semantics, but you did just call them trolls.


Well if someone is posting on an issue they have no interest in other than to annoy...how would you define them?
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby mahou123 » Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:48 pm

The thing is, Peruvian children get brainwashed with religion from the age of 4. Most ´good´ private schools are strictly Catholic, and the non-Catholic private schools are filled up with Evangelicals, Jehova witnesses, Mormons and all sorts of other US-financed people who know the real truth. I´ve seen a religious education textbook for a private school my daughter went to (non-Catholic), it´s produced by Peruvian Catholic church and is studied 5 times a week, every day. As a result of study, 6 years old child thinks that everything in the nature, like the ocean, beach or mountains, everything is made by Jesus, who is a person sitting on a cloud in the sky and ´looking after us´. It seems to me pretty discouraging for the kids to question the things any further, because they already have a simple and easy answer to anything.

I think that´s the reason I don´t know about any prominent Peruvian scientist, any Peruvian company doing any cutting-age technology or anything like ´Peruvian engineering´, any new ideas or anything modern and ´world class´ originating in Peru: there are simply no people who would do that. So the country extremely rich in natural resources, which is arguably well run over last couple of decades, where we hear constant talk of how things are getting better all the time, how economy is booming and modernising and there are only that many years before Peru is becoming ´first world´, is actually has only $8500 per capita GDP compared to $10400 world average, slightly above Angola (source: CIA world factbook). Until religion is stopped to be enforced on children, I don´t see Peru becoming anywhere near ´first world´, the gap will only grow.

So I think it´s good someone is organising an anti-religious group here, maybe if you get more Peruvians, society will certainly benefit from encouraging people to be open-minded. Or at least those people would benefit themselves.
Xibalba

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Xibalba » Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:55 pm

Comet wrote:
Well if someone is posting on an issue they have no interest in other than to annoy...how would you define them?


I am only pointing out that while saying you do not insult people (you insult what they say), you insulted people. Now you are defending your right to do so. Whatever one may call them, you just made the category yourself, unfortunately.

But I get it. You're upset because you wanted a protected environment, in a public arena, where you could discuss atheism only with like minded people that fit your ideal, and you have disinvited anyone else from participating.

I think expecting a safe haven on an internet forum board is a stretch of logic far greater than any of the world's strangest belief systems.

You've made your point, perhaps the thread should be locked and like-minded people can IM you in a safer, more controlled environment, so you don't have to debate or discuss anything, intelligently or otherwise.

Mods?
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby americorps » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:00 pm

wow.

I can not support or excuse comet's reactions, he has responded badly.

But responded is they key word here.

He made a simple and reasonable post and the bullies came out swining, then he swang back and now everyone is acting so shocked that someone who was bullied reacted.

Well, bullying gets this sort of reaction, so while we each are responsible for our own actions, there are instigators here, trolls and bullies, if you will...and I suspect they are quite pleased in getting the very reaction they were going for.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby stuart » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:01 pm

mahou123 wrote:The thing is, Peruvian children get brainwashed with religion from the age of 4. Most ´good´ private schools are strictly Catholic, and the non-Catholic private schools are filled up with Evangelicals, Jehova witnesses, Mormons and all sorts of other US-financed people who know the real truth. I´ve seen a religious education textbook for a private school my daughter went to (non-Catholic), it´s produced by Peruvian Catholic church and is studied 5 times a week, every day. As a result of study, 6 years old child thinks that everything in the nature, like the ocean, beach or mountains, everything is made by Jesus, who is a person sitting on a cloud in the sky and ´looking after us´. It seems to me pretty discouraging for the kids to question the things any further, because they already have a simple and easy answer to anything.

I think that´s the reason I don´t know about any prominent Peruvian scientist, any Peruvian company doing any cutting-age technology or anything like ´Peruvian engineering´, any new ideas or anything modern and ´world class´ originating in Peru: there are simply no people who would do that. So the country extremely rich in natural resources, which is arguably well run over last couple of decades, where we hear constant talk of how things are getting better all the time, how economy is booming and modernising and there are only that many years before Peru is becoming ´first world´, is actually has only $8500 per capita GDP compared to $10400 world average, slightly above Angola (source: CIA world factbook). Until religion is stopped to be enforced on children, I don´t see Peru becoming anywhere near ´first world´, the gap will only grow.

So I think it´s good someone is organising an anti-religious group here, maybe if you get more Peruvians, society will certainly benefit from encouraging people to be open-minded. Or at least those people would benefit themselves.


Too true.
Comet

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:12 pm

For (what I hope will be) the last time...IF you are interested in the group write away to your heart´s content, if you are NOT interested then please post elsewhere!
Comet

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:15 pm

Xibalba wrote:
Comet wrote:
Well if someone is posting on an issue they have no interest in other than to annoy...how would you define them?


I am only pointing out that while saying you do not insult people (you insult what they say), you insulted people. Now you are defending your right to do so. Whatever one may call them, you just made the category yourself, unfortunately.

But I get it. You're upset because you wanted a protected environment, in a public arena, where you could discuss atheism only with like minded people that fit your ideal, and you have disinvited anyone else from participating.

I think expecting a safe haven on an internet forum board is a stretch of logic far greater than any of the world's strangest belief systems.

You've made your point, perhaps the thread should be locked and like-minded people can IM you in a safer, more controlled environment, so you don't have to debate or discuss anything, intelligently or otherwise.

Mods?

May I remind you that I did not come onto this site to debate, discuss or argue about anything...I simply asked if any other atheists would like to get together sometime....please read my first post .
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby Polaron » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:27 pm

There are people who want to make you seem unreasonable, Comet; don't fall into their trap by responding in kind, as tempting as it is. I'm not going to put myself on a pedestal and presume that I have the right to judge or pardon anyone here. I'll instead suggest that some of our expat brethren pick up a copy of a book called, All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten. Of note: "Play fair, don't hit people, and say you're sorry when you hurt someone."
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby scott » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:36 pm

Comet wrote:For (what I hope will be) the last time...IF you are interested in the group write away to your heart´s content, if you are NOT interested then please post elsewhere!


You must be new, that's not how it works here. They are just getting warmed up. For once I am not the one getting trolled or fanning the flames :)
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Comet

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:47 pm

Polaron wrote:There are people who want to make you seem unreasonable, Comet; don't fall into their trap by responding in kind, as tempting as it is. I'm not going to put myself on a pedestal and presume that I have the right to judge or pardon anyone here. I'll instead suggest that some of our expat brethren pick up a copy of a book called, All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten. Of note: "Play fair, don't hit people, and say you're sorry when you hurt someone."


Hmmm are you proposing that I "turn the other cheek"....? :shock:
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby gerard » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:07 pm

The thing is, Peruvian children get brainwashed with religion from the age of 4. Most ´good´ private schools are strictly Catholic, and the non-Catholic private schools are filled up with Evangelicals, Jehova witnesses, Mormons and all sorts of other US-financed people who know the real truth. I´ve seen a religious education textbook for a private school my daughter went to (non-Catholic), it´s produced by Peruvian Catholic church and is studied 5 times a week, every day. As a result of study, 6 years old child thinks that everything in the nature, like the ocean, beach or mountains, everything is made by Jesus, who is a person sitting on a cloud in the sky and ´looking after us´. It seems to me pretty discouraging for the kids to question the things any further, because they already have a simple and easy answer to anything.


Yes, damn those Church schools for educating the poor, often in the worst areas of the country/city. How dare they expect the kids to learn a few prayers along with Spanish, English, maths and science, reading, writing....And then to set up universities to further indoctrinate them. The horror.

But seriously, you're saying that Peru isn't progressing to a 1st world country because the children spend a small proprotion of their school time studying religion? I think there are other reasons that'd come way ahead of that.

It has been implied that somehow atheists are rational and logical but believers are not; that somehow believing in a god makes you less intelligent. Yet some of our greatest scientists and thinkers have been deeply religious. Copernicus, Bacon, Kepler, Galileo (despite his argument with the Pope), Descartes, Newton, and more recently Planck and Einstein.

Personally I have no problem with people believing or not believing what they like, and I see no issue with someone being both a scientist or reasoned thinker and a believer. That's why they call it faith.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby Alpineprince » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:17 pm

Damn, I was just about convinced I was an atheist until I read about not beating your children!
I have many fond memories of the "sista's" in Catholic school, beating the "crap" out of any kid that showed any individuality,personality or above average intelligence!
Comet

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:23 pm

gerard wrote:
The thing is, Peruvian children get brainwashed with religion from the age of 4. Most ´good´ private schools are strictly Catholic, and the non-Catholic private schools are filled up with Evangelicals, Jehova witnesses, Mormons and all sorts of other US-financed people who know the real truth. I´ve seen a religious education textbook for a private school my daughter went to (non-Catholic), it´s produced by Peruvian Catholic church and is studied 5 times a week, every day. As a result of study, 6 years old child thinks that everything in the nature, like the ocean, beach or mountains, everything is made by Jesus, who is a person sitting on a cloud in the sky and ´looking after us´. It seems to me pretty discouraging for the kids to question the things any further, because they already have a simple and easy answer to anything.


Yes, damn those Church schools for educating the poor, often in the worst areas of the country/city. How dare they expect the kids to learn a few prayers along with Spanish, English, maths and science, reading, writing....And then to set up universities to further indoctrinate them. The horror.

But seriously, you're saying that Peru isn't progressing to a 1st world country because the children spend a small proprotion of their school time studying religion? I think there are other reasons that'd come way ahead of that.

It has been implied that somehow atheists are rational and logical but believers are not; that somehow believing in a god makes you less intelligent. Yet some of our greatest scientists and thinkers have been deeply religious. Copernicus, Bacon, Kepler, Galileo (despite his argument with the Pope), Descartes, Newton, and more recently Planck and Einstein.

Personally I have no problem with people believing or not believing what they like, and I see no issue with someone being both a scientist or reasoned thinker and a believer. That's why they call it faith.


It has not been implied... it is a fact...more education = less religious , higher IQ = less religious, numerous studies have correolated this....look at my previous post if you doubt .
Einstein throughout his life insisted that he did not believe in a personal god .
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby fanning » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:38 pm

For 3 pages I have read this tread with interest. I happened to be the first to show no interest in joining this atheist group, and got flamed for it. Comet tells us many times that we shouldn't respond if we are not part of his group, and as he has not made the rules on this forum, I hereby use my right to respond anyway, as the rules permit me !
I decided 13 years ago to become a Christian mainly based on LOGIC. For me one of the reasons to assume God is there and Jesus was send to us to save us was based on LOGIC. That might sound strange to atheist as there is no physical proof for God, but I try to explain.
Since mankind walks around this earth they have believed in some sort of God ( was is Allay, Budda, or some pagan religion ). Then around the sixties came the hippies ( my parents being among them ) and starting to proclaim a different lifestyle, free sex, no more need for God etc.
In Holland a large part of the people are turning their backs to the churches, and God in general. This is surely happening all over the 'first world' in a greater number than in Peru who is more traditional.
I could simply not accept and find the logic in it that all mankind has been wrong since the beginning of time believing there was a God, while in fact there isn't. This invention of that there is no God comes from ONE ( or maybe now TWO ) generations.
Logic simply states that it is more probable that these two generations are wrong, and that WHOLE mankind was right afterall. So I think WHOLE mankind was correct in assuming that there is a God, and this small portion of non-believers , atheist, have it wrong, and try to justify it with a demand for physical evidence.
Comet

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:56 pm

fanning wrote:For 3 pages I have read this tread with interest. I happened to be the first to show no interest in joining this atheist group, and got flamed for it. Comet tells us many times that we shouldn't respond if we are not part of his group, and as he has not made the rules on this forum, I hereby use my right to respond anyway, as the rules permit me !
I decided 13 years ago to become a Christian mainly based on LOGIC. For me one of the reasons to assume God is there and Jesus was send to us to save us was based on LOGIC. That might sound strange to atheist as there is no physical proof for God, but I try to explain.
Since mankind walks around this earth they have believed in some sort of God ( was is Allay, Budda, or some pagan religion ). Then around the sixties came the hippies ( my parents being among them ) and starting to proclaim a different lifestyle, free sex, no more need for God etc.
In Holland a large part of the people are turning their backs to the churches, and God in general. This is surely happening all over the 'first world' in a greater number than in Peru who is more traditional.
I could simply not accept and find the logic in it that all mankind has been wrong since the beginning of time believing there was a God, while in fact there isn't. This invention of that there is no God comes from ONE ( or maybe now TWO ) generations.
Logic simply states that it is more probable that these two generations are wrong, and that WHOLE mankind was right afterall. So I think WHOLE mankind was correct in assuming that there is a God, and this small portion of non-believers , atheist, have it wrong, and try to justify it with a demand for physical evidence.


Theism is the exact opposite of logic....your history of religion is somewhat lax to say the least...man has been around for something like 180,000 to 200,000 years...the first known gods were invented around 6,000 to 9,000 years ago. There is not one... not one tiny, single piece of evidence for a god...faith is by definition belief without evidence, atheism is based on the balance of probability....and with all the evidence that supports the age of the earth, the history of evolution, the known history of the evolution of religions...the known facts about the universe...all this versus a "feeling" a "hunch"...if you were a jury who would you believe ?
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby Kelly » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:06 pm

While the conversation has been very interesting, the topic of this thread should not be whether or not atheism is good/bad, right/wrong or whatever. This is not an alt.religion message board, it's an Expat Peruvian forum. I think our forum guidelines are very clear on what topics are expected in the forum.

It's a call to anyone who wants to join a group. If you want in on the group, let Comet know. All other posts from here on out will be deleted.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:49 pm

Thankyou Kelly.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby Polaron » Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:46 pm

So when are we going to get together?
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby markr » Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:11 am

Polaron wrote:So when are we going to get together?


God only knows.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby american_in_lima » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:06 am

markr wrote:
Polaron wrote:So when are we going to get together?


God only knows.


I think it was just a ploy to get people talking quite frankly. I have a couple of athiest friends and I don't think we ever talked about God or religion once.

If there is a meeting, I would love to go assuming that you guys don't discriminate based on religious beliefs. I can represent the theist piece. :)
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby americorps » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:57 am

I do not think Poloran was asking for an opinion of the op, only when the op wanted to meet.

If you are above reproach in the topic with our atheist friends, why not here?

Kelly was right, this should be left to the mechanics of getting together and the ongoing Christian Commentary is really out of place and quite frankly, it shows a need for such a group.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:14 pm

american_in_lima wrote:
markr wrote:
Polaron wrote:So when are we going to get together?


God only knows.


I think it was just a ploy to get people talking quite frankly. I have a couple of athiest friends and I don't think we ever talked about God or religion once.

If there is a meeting, I would love to go assuming that you guys don't discriminate based on religious beliefs. I can represent the theist piece. :)


The purpose of the group is NOT to discuss religion...it is to discuss anything at all, which may or may not sometimes include religion. The purpose is a group of more or less likeminded free-thinking people to get together now and then socially.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:21 pm

I am moving to a new dpto this weekend, I would like to arrange a night out for a few beers with any of you atheists/agostics out there for the following weekend, if you could please let me know how many are actually interested in coming.
Regarding any theists who may wish (for some unfathomable reason) to come, I promise not to come and annoy you in church if you will grant me the same courtesy here thankyou :)
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:23 pm

american_in_lima wrote:
markr wrote:
Polaron wrote:So when are we going to get together?


God only knows.


I think it was just a ploy to get people talking quite frankly. I have a couple of athiest friends and I don't think we ever talked about God or religion once.

If there is a meeting, I would love to go assuming that you guys don't discriminate based on religious beliefs. I can represent the theist piece. :)


Nice of you to offer support, but as it isnt a debate we don´t really need another "side". Thanks anyway.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby Polaron » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:54 pm

Works for me, though I really prefer in-home meetings (less distraction and noise).
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby RSM_aus » Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:50 pm

Wow. Pretty disappointed by the responses here to say the least. I joined the website last night to try and meet a few members of the forum before I arrive in Peru at the end of the month. For the OP to be met with such bigoted responses from religious folk is a bit disconcerting. As people who enjoy travelling and living in a foreign country/ies, I would have assumed the majority of this forum would have more respect for people who have different ideas and beliefs or lack thereof. I really can't imagine there'd be any objection if a member of the forum were to suggest opening a Sikh or Hindu group, why should it be any different for those who don't belong to any faith? Anyway, I suppose we can organise things via PMs.


On a positive note, the site and forum have been extremely helpful for planning my trip over, so thanks a lot :P
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby renodante » Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:19 am

i'm totally into joining the atheist group (if it happens). i've been devouring discussions about atheism while working for the past 8 months or so and am psyched there are expats here that are interested. also, haven't really met any fellow expats here and am new to the board.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby american_in_lima » Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:46 am

I am not sure if anyone actually objected to the creation of the group. Regardless of the topic posted on forums like this, there will always be opinions and differences. For those against it, they said to count them out. For those for it, to count them in.


Difference of opinion is good.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby americorps » Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:55 am

Comet wrote:I have noticed that there appear to be groups here which cover almost every conceivable lifestyle....I would be interested in forming an Atheist group and hearing from like-minded people.


George,

Nothing in the original post, quoted in its entirety above calls for debate or discussion, only a get-to-gather.

Further discussion clarified that the purpose of the group is social for like minded people, not debate or discussion of the topic.

There was no debate or opinion offered or solicited, but debate was presented in a less than positive manor. This thread was NOT posted in the news and views section.

I have to totally agree with RSM_aus with his dissapointment.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby Kelly » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:08 am

If you want to join in to the group, say so. If not, there's no need to comment, as advice and discussion was not asked for. I will say again - if you'd like to discuss religion or atheism and its repercussions in Peru, we have a New/Views forum made just for that type of discussion. This forum isn't the place, we'd ask that everyone kindly refrain from making any more comments.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby Polaron » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:43 am

I'm glad to see we've got some more people interested in your idea, comet. Why don't we put our heads together and organize a meet? We can do it at my house, if you like. I am pretty much centrally located (Pueblo Libre) and I have more than enough space.

Anyone that would like further information please PM me. Thanks.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby renodante » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:35 pm

i would be totally down for a meetup.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby Polaron » Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:05 am

Whether you're down for a meetup, or up for a meet-down, send me a PM and we'll schedule something.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:33 pm

HI...sorry about the delay organising a meeting..I have just moved to a new apartment, and as it´s the first unfurnished place my girlfriend and I have had , we have had to buy almost everything ....so at the moment I´m broke, short of furniture...and realistically I think it will be next month before I can do anything. I will, of course, keep you informed.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby Polaron » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:24 pm

That's why I have offered my place for our first meeting.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby Nate » Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:05 pm

I don't believe in Thor, Zeus, Hui, or The Lord. My wife is in the same boat and the children will be brought up to make their own decision when they can and not forced into any world view. They will be given all the information they need or want about any of the religions to do so.


I'd just like to go for a beer with some folk when I arrive.
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