Landlord asking to pay for damage not my fault.

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renodante
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Landlord asking to pay for damage not my fault.

Postby renodante » Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:36 pm

Hello. I'm moving out of my apartment on the 10th of this month, an old apartment on Juan Fanning in a building from the 70's or early 80's, 5th floor walkup. During my 6 month stay, moisture damage started appearing on the ceiling of the bathroom, in the hallway, and in my roomates room (i just noticed this stuff about a month ago, my roomate never told me about his room.) Now, they are saying we need to pay to paint the ENTIRE apartment. They have a security deposit of $1200 (2 months rent, which was ridiculous to me but the apartment is in my roomates name, he's a peruvian resident) and are talking about deducting the cost of the paint. None of this is me or my roomates fault, and the realty guy who came to pre-inspect the place even said so himself, saying "this looks like it's from the bathroom" and for the kitchen "this looks like it's a leak from upstairs" yet he still is saying we need to pay for it. There is damage to one part of one wall in my bedroom, b/c i put up a poster with crappy cheap tape and the tape is stuck to the wall now. I guess my question is twofold:

1. What legal recourse do I have about this B.S about painting the whole apartment b/c of the water damage? As far as I'm concerned, we don't owe 1 centimo for that. I've skimmed the forum and heard about doing the SUNAT thing, but what if they demand a ridiculous amount of payment for the paint? Can I say I'm not leaving the apartment or turning in the keys until I get a fair amount of my deposit back? I'm thinking worst case scenario here.

2. Anyone know roughly how much it costs to paint a bedroom here in peru? the paint is just normal white paint.

Thanks in advance. My roomate talked with the owner and she's going to send the realty guy back over, last time I was here and didn't really talk to him, he's going to come when my roomate is here this time, I'm asking this preemptively in case he insists we need to paint the apartment. Again, I'm willing to paint my room, (really it should just be 1 wall of my room) and nothing more. Thanks again.


renodante
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Re: Landlord asking to pay for damage not my fault.

Postby renodante » Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:37 pm

CORRECTION: the main water damage is in the kitchen, not the bathroom. typo.
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Re: Landlord asking to pay for damage not my fault.

Postby sunflower » Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:57 pm

Go to Ace or Sodimac, get a cheap white paint and a roller and paint the room yourself. Shouldn't be a big deal.
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Re: Landlord asking to pay for damage not my fault.

Postby Kelly » Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:59 am

A gallon of decent paint runs about 45 soles, labor for a painter can go from 40-60 soles per day.
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Re: Landlord asking to pay for damage not my fault.

Postby tupacperu » Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:23 am

Living in Miraflores or near the ocean you will have issues like this.

I would say paint it, without the water damage you would have to paint it on move out.


I had the same issue years ago. I took Photos (mold) before my lease ran out, and also my son got sick because of mold and I kept a copy of the bill. I presented both to the owner who said that she would have it painted. The painting never happened after repeated emails and calls. When the lease ended she refuse to give me my deposit and said I needed to paint the Apartment. I paid an attorney a couple $100.00 and she had to give me my deposit back after a few days of negotiation.

I would make your roomate paint the house since he did not let you know what was up.
It is important to take photos and document any disputes you have with a landlord.
Take photos when you move in and take them when you move out.

I had a landlord do some damage to her own place after we move. I emailed her the before and after photos and refuse to pay her with the deposit she had refunded.
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Re: Landlord asking to pay for damage not my fault.

Postby Jennifer » Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:12 am

I agree with these other posts. I'd say just get some cheap paint and do it. This will save you a lot of time and effort and frustration dealing with the owner that is unlikely to budge. And leaving it to the owner may see other ''charges'' and expensive paint/painter being used.
Not ideal, either way, but best to keep things simple, I think.
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Re: Landlord asking to pay for damage not my fault.

Postby Remigius » Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:03 pm

Sadly, I agree with the rest. Painting the place (with the cheapest stuff you can find) and having a painter do it will prevent you from going through an endless legal ordeal that in the end will cost you more time and money than having somebody brush things up.
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Re: Landlord asking to pay for damage not my fault.

Postby Polaron » Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:44 pm

As a rule of thumb in Latin America, landlords typically do not fully refund security deposits. They think the deposit is paid to them to do improvements or make changes to their properties after the tenant moves out. Most of the native Latin Americans I have known refuse to pay more than a single month's deposit, and then, when they move out, they do not pay the last month of rent in full, using the excuse that they need the money to pay deposits on the new place. Using that strategy is almost certain to annoy your landlord, but let them sue you. They may not have any idea where you are going to be moving to, and if they ask you, just conveniently forget the address. Never say you are not going to tell them; use their own tactics against them. After all, in most cases, the landlord lies to you up front about the purpose of the deposit.

Second, anyone renting in Latin America should immediately have the door locks changed without notifying the owner. Yes, it is probably disallowed in the contract, but the owner has no way of finding out unless someone tells him/her. And then what is s/he going to do? Sue you? Good luck.

Get used to the idea that getting the full amount of a security deposit back in Latin America is an uncommon experience.
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Re: Landlord asking to pay for damage not my fault.

Postby markr » Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:27 am

I fully understand, that in general, what is being said about Peruvian Landlords is true, but would just like to point out that there are the occasional exceptions. I was happy to be the tenant of such an exception a couple of years ago when we lived in Miraflores.
I re wrote the contract to suit me, and each of the clauses I either altered, added or removed, was agreed upon. On the couple of occasions when we had a problem with electrics and plumbing, the problem was immediately taken car of.
Even when he left the country for a long holiday I was given full details of the person he had left in charge and had access to my deposit (which was payed back in full on the eventual termination of our contract) if anything was to happen whilst he and his wife were traveling.
So yes, there are a lot of lousy landlords out there, but there is at least one good one that I know of and now regard as a friend.
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Re: Landlord asking to pay for damage not my fault.

Postby jchambilla » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:48 am

Sorry to say this, but anyone knows about the terms of the contract?
I have a good relationship with all the landlords of the houses that I rented before. It's common to avoid this step: Before to move to any apartment/house make an inspection with the owner and if you don't know anything about repairing, hire or ask someone you trust who knows about repairing so this person can talk with the owner about things that need to be repair.
Also when you are about to move, you have to paint the place it is a rule, unless of course you had something different in your contract.

As others said before, just fix all you have to fix, paint the apartment and move, it is to late at this point. It would be a lot expensive and will take a lot of time if you go trying to get some justice.
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Re: Landlord asking to pay for damage not my fault.

Postby mark7402 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:35 pm

Send the heavies round to sort it out...joking

What is it with damp,moisture and condensation. I had exactly the same problem in the Uk and the letting agency told me i should have left windows open and aired the place, mmm great idea when i rented it in the autumn/winter months only.

Be careful you don't go and decorate and the they still try stitching you up. You can bet they have had this problem with every tenant that has lived there and would have been expecting this problem. I just delayed paying my final rent ( i had bank problems honest) then moved and posted the keys through their letterbox early one morning. Fortunately for me i only paid 1 months rent as deposit so it all evened itself out. :)
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Re: Landlord asking to pay for damage not my fault.

Postby renodante » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:58 pm

she's not accepting us painting it ourselves, she's demanding 100 dollars to paint something i've priced to be about 75 soles. she also wants $150 for a broken ashtray she says has "sentimental value" (then don't put it in your rental property) and a glass bowl. $250 to clean the carpets (normal wear and tear from usage, we didn't damage the carpeting). so yeah....time to pull out the SUNAT card.
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Re: Landlord asking to pay for damage not my fault.

Postby renodante » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:00 am

"It would be a lot expensive and will take a lot of time if you go trying to get some justice."

if she's not paying her taxes, it will cost the price of a fax. i'm tired of being screwed over here and taking it.
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Re: Landlord asking to pay for damage not my fault.

Postby americorps » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:28 am

Sunat has a form you can fill out to turn in your landlord for not paying her taxes on rental properties.

I know others who have filled out that form and taken a copy to their landlord. Other than that, you can threaten that you are going to be a squatter and for her to evict you would take her many months and a lot more money than she is wanting to charge you. Tenents have few rights and to get justice is a process that is more trouble than it is worth.

Also, something that really throws a lot of westerners here in Peru is they expect that normal wear and tear is not something they will be charged for, nor for broken down appliances. No such protection exists here unless specifically registered in the contract. Recently the mechanics inside my toilet broke from rust. The landlord expected me to replace it. Most contracts suggest you have to leave an apartment the same condition as when you entered it, without allowance for reasonable wear and tear.
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Re: Landlord asking to pay for damage not my fault.

Postby renodante » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:11 pm

thanks americorps. but thanks to this forum, i already did the sunat thing, and she practically crapped her pants. i decided to be nice and still give her a little money for a wall that i messed up with tape, but if i wanted to, i'm sure i could have gotten all of the deposit back.

SUNAT works like a charm, unless you happen to be unlucky and get one of the handful of landlords that actually pays taxes.
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Re: Landlord asking to pay for damage not my fault.

Postby americorps » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:18 pm

Good for you in putting her in her place and good for you for accepting responsibility for the thing that was your fault.

I respect that all the way around, not to be bullied and to accept responsibility for your actions.

YEA!!!!
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Re: Landlord asking to pay for damage not my fault.

Postby renodante » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:23 pm

just for future reference americorps, would that squatter thing work even if your lease was up? i would think they could call the cops to get you out immediately if your contract was up.
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Re: Landlord asking to pay for damage not my fault.

Postby sunflower » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:39 pm

Of course they can call the cops. But as far as I was told the police is not allowed to enter without a search warrant. But who knows what the landlord told the police. Not an ideal situation and one I personally would try to avoid. I think as mentioned above there are other ways
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Re: Landlord asking to pay for damage not my fault.

Postby americorps » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:48 pm

According to the global property guide, rules tend to favor renters for evictions in Peru.

To evict a renter, first you must be served notice and that process takes 30 days. Then you must go to a trial and that process takes and average of 1095 days.

Then, if the order is granted, they must evict you in 180 days.

That means an average eviction takes 1.305 days, or just over 3 years and six months.

However, at that point, you will be held liable for all the rent during that 3.5 years and perhaps other costs.

http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Lati ... and-Tenant
renodante
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Re: Landlord asking to pay for damage not my fault.

Postby renodante » Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:40 pm

Cool i'll just stay at my next place for free for the next 3 years. JOKING! :lol:
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Re: Landlord asking to pay for damage not my fault.

Postby fanning » Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:59 pm

renodante wrote:Cool i'll just stay at my next place for free for the next 3 years. JOKING! :lol:

Well that is not so much a joke .. This is one of the reasons why landlords like to rent to foreigners, as they usually are more punctual in paying, and not trying to go for the 'free rent' thing
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Re: Landlord asking to pay for damage not my fault.

Postby Remigius » Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:09 pm

Many landlords (if not, all) don't do things by the book. Threatening with the SUNAT is a good weapon, and especially if a friendly approach doesn't work.
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Re: Landlord asking to pay for damage not my fault.

Postby Remigius » Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:11 pm

fanning wrote:
renodante wrote:Cool i'll just stay at my next place for free for the next 3 years. JOKING! :lol:

Well that is not so much a joke .. This is one of the reasons why landlords like to rent to foreigners, as they usually are more punctual in paying, and not trying to go for the 'free rent' thing


Also for those who want to let out their place; make sure everything is by the book or else it's virtually impossible to kick people out. I have a friend who thought contracts were too much of a fuss and now she's already for 1 year trying to get a non-paying tenant our of her property.

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