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Security in Miraflores

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:45 pm
by goingnowherefast
Hey guys, after catching some people trying to rob my place in Ecuador I was wondering about security in Miraflores. Not trying to incite any panic, I lived in Miraflores for 1 year without any problems and found it to be one of the safer areas of Latin America... but I was wondering...

In the event that something happens, home invasion, etc. - is there a number to call where police or guards will actually come to assist in a situation?

Has this happened to anyone? What was their response time?

Thanks.

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:03 pm
by Kelly
I would never depend on any security company or serenazgo here. Home invasions aren't typical in Miraflores, although my neighbor was mugged near our house and another neighbor's home was broken into (with a automatic garage door opener) while they were on vacation a few years back. Those are the only instances I know of in the last 5 years near us.

I think the best bet of keeping your home safe is barking dogs. :/

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:04 pm
by chi chi
Burglaries happen all over Lima, whether it's a good or bad area.
A burglary is a rich area is more interesting than in a poor area. More valuable things can be found.
Last year the home of former president Alan Garcia got burglared and his home is in one of the best areas of Lima.
Police response time is slow. In some areas of Lima, they have serenazgo. They are generally quicker.

It's always beter to avoid burglary.
Always make sure that your home looks occupied. When I leave my home at night, I leave a light on.
During the day, I put the radio on.
When you go away for a few days, DON'T TELL ANYONE. Not even the watchiman or your neighboors.
Don't put expensive things in sight. Don't leave laptops, cameras etc. in front of the window.

When you move into a flat, CHANGE THE LOCKS. Previous tenants or the landlord can come back 'for a visit'.
Keeps windows and door locked even when you leave the home for a few minutes.

Don't trust the concierge or watchimen. They often inform burglars when someone is away.

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:07 pm
by chi chi
Kelly wrote:I think the best bet of keeping your home safe is barking dogs. :/


Dogs will scare the amateur burglars or fumones.
But the more professional ones will poison the dog.

The dog of my gf her mother got poisoned by burglars.

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:18 pm
by goingnowherefast
From what y'all have said they sound to be fairly non violent which is at least something. Last night some drunk dopeheads tried to get in my door, luckily I was able to stand by the door with a knife which warded them off and they just begged me to buzz them out of the building, which I did. Nothing got taken from me, but it sucks to have to be so alert, especially with no firearm, and listen to your neighbors things being taken.

I wonder if in Lima, if someone enters your home illegally you have the right to kill them like in the States. Then again if that law is actually written it probably depends on how the responding officer (if there even is one...) working wants to interpret it and whether his pockets are full.

It makes you want to start an expat security service.

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:26 pm
by falconagain
My family used to have a house/repair shop close to the airport.
We had 4 Dobermans as security. We left the place alone for a
week, when we came back all the dogs had stomach problems.

After getting a veterinary there. He discovered that someone
tried to poison the dogs. After this the family decided to keep
always somebody living in that house in order to avoid any
incident like that again.

Still I think that home invasion are too common in Lima. This
is why blocks in the city have metal gates.

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:48 pm
by chi chi
falconagain wrote:Still I think that home invasion are too common in Lima. This
is why blocks in the city have metal gates.


If you walk around Lima, you can also notice that most houses have 2 locks on the door.

In the whole of Europe, I've only seen 2 homes that have metal bars in front of their windows.
In Lima almost all homes have metal bars in front of their windows and metal gate in front of the door.

I'v seen flatbuilding that have metal bars up to the 3rd floor.

I know a business owner who parks his car in front of his office building and pays a vigilante money just to look after his car all day.

Security is big business here in Lima.
Many streets have watchimen, almost all appartment building have vigilante and all banks have a police officer or security guard.

I've even seen in Magdalena Del Mar, a heladeria (ice cream parlour) that pays a police officer to stand in front of the door all day.

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:50 pm
by goingnowherefast
I had a burglar on my property once in the States a long time ago... if you have a firearm it's not so bad because you know that if the robbers are armed you have a chance and 9 times out of 10 burglars aren't looking for a gunfight and will flee when shots are fired.

However, without a firearm, it's a different thing.

To hell with a dog, I highly recommend all those living long term in Latin America to obtain a firearm, especially if you have a family to defend. Say what you will about guns but when there's people trying to forcibly enter your home, even after they know you're inside, you'll be praying for one.

Another important thing is those metal double doors. That will keep undesirables from entering your home, which helped me a lot last night. Single doors can be kicked in, whereas the outer metal door is hard to take down. Always lock it too, even during the day.

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:12 pm
by chi chi
goingnowherefast wrote: I highly recommend all those living long term in Latin America to obtain a firearm, especially if you have a family to defend.


But obtain one legally with a licence otherwise you will get in BIG trouble. Also learn how to handle it and keep it out of childrens reach. Also remember...guns attract guns.

goingnowherefast wrote:To hell with a dog


If a burglar tries to enter your home at night, a dog will bark and wake you up. A gun won't do that. If you walk on the street with big dog, you will unlikely be robbed. Robbers are looking for easy prey that they can rob quickly with little risk.

goingnowherefast wrote:Another important thing is those metal double doors. That will keep undesirables from entering your home, which helped me a lot last night. Single doors can be kicked in, whereas the outer metal door is hard to take down. Always lock it too, even during the day.


Lock all doors with a key. Don't just pull them closed. A burglar can break a window and open the door by the inner handle.
Most flats don't have outer metal doors so sliding bolts can be installed easily and cheaply. Put them on top and bottom on the inside of the door.
Install door viewers or small cameras.
Radioshack sells a camera and small monitor for 159 soles.
They also sell fake cameras for 20 soles. A burglar won't know if someone is wathing or not or if the camera is fake so will not take the risk.

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:30 pm
by calygirl
Check out this article, it's 20 years old. Alot of what you see still on many of the buildings now, such as bars on windows. etc.. stems from the paranoia of the Sendero Luminoso reign, which some of you may or may not remember. Once the fear factor sets in, it's hard to let your guard down again.
http://articles.latimes.com/1992-02-16/ ... y-business

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:51 pm
by KenBE
goingnowherefast wrote:Hey guys, after catching some people trying to rob my place in Ecuador I was wondering about security in Miraflores. Not trying to incite any panic, I lived in Miraflores for 1 year without any problems and found it to be one of the safer areas of Latin America... but I was wondering...

In the event that something happens, home invasion, etc. - is there a number to call where police or guards will actually come to assist in a situation?

Has this happened to anyone? What was their response time?

Thanks.

I don't know about Miraflores (it seems a bit safer compared to the rest of Peru, at least based on what people on this board say), but here in the middle class areas of Trujillo robberies are extremely and I mean EXTREMELY common. I have personally witnessed 4 robberies (2 armed) in the last 6 months. Home invasions happen a lot too, but seem to be a bit less common than purse snatchings and muggings (which happen about once a month here). I have witnessed so many robberies and heard so many stories about crime here in Peru that if I told them all you would think I was making them up. I don't know if this means that Trujillo is a lot more dangerous than Lima (some people say it is) and I am not trying to scare anyone, but this has been my experience. As for the police, we called them after two of the robberies we witnessed and they are not even interested...

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:06 pm
by chi chi
KenBE wrote:I don't know about Miraflores (it seems a bit safer compared to the rest of Peru


High crime rates are in big cities.
In my neigbourhood, we park our motorbikes on the street at night. Sleep with windows open and leave the door open during the day. You shouldn't do that in Miraflores.

I think that most villages in Peru are very safe to live. Cities have more crime.

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:29 pm
by KenBE
chi chi wrote:
KenBE wrote:I don't know about Miraflores (it seems a bit safer compared to the rest of Peru


High crime rates are in big cities.
In my neigbourhood, we park our motorbikes on the street at night. Sleep with windows open and leave the door open during the day. You shouldn't do that in Miraflores.

I think that most villages in Peru are very safe to live. Cities have more crime.


Well, I have never been to the small villages in the Selva, so I don't know. All I know is that if you left your motorbike on the street here in Trujillo it would not stay there for long... When I say Miraflores may be safer I am mostly comparing it to other parts of Lima and the other big cities in Peru (Trujillo, Arequipa, etc.). Why do I think it is safer? Because that is what people on this board say and that is how it "feels" when I go there. I have never lived there myself though, so I don't speak from personal experience.

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:05 pm
by americorps
Chi Chi's comments are once again way off base about crime rates in the provinces and he sort of avoided all together that there are actually crime stats for Lima that show some neighborhoods much more crime ridden than others. I really wish for someone who feels the need to post 10 times on every topic, that he would try a little harder to provide accurate, useful and relevant information.

For example, San Borja is lower than Miraflores, but stats suggest that is because of increased tourist pickpockets and without that, they are about the same.

San Isidro is good as well.

It is also higher than I would have thought in areas like la planecia, but those are not nearly as high as the downtown and other areas where crime goes up by many times.

Barranco crime is surprisingly high.

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:02 pm
by chuck
goingnowherefast wrote:Hey guys, after catching some people trying to rob my place in Ecuador I was wondering about security in Miraflores. Not trying to incite any panic, I lived in Miraflores for 1 year without any problems and found it to be one of the safer areas of Latin America... but I was wondering...

In the event that something happens, home invasion, etc. - is there a number to call where police or guards will actually come to assist in a situation?

Has this happened to anyone? What was their response time?

Thanks.


My house in Miraflores has an alarm installed with back to base monitoring by Prosegur. I think it is around S/.80 per month. All external doors and windows have mag switches.
I accidentally left one of the internal doors open one night and one of my pussies set off the motion sensor - Prosegur called my cell phone in less than a minute and a security dude from Prosegur was at the house in less than five minutes. He checked all my credentials and checked I was ok.
I am very pleased with the service.

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:07 pm
by rama0929
americorps wrote:Barranco crime is surprisingly high.


How so? I would think given the area you'd have a lot of petty crime there, with the occasional drunken reveler

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:03 am
by tupacperu
Thieves and Robbers go where there is money. I have lived in Pueblo Libre, Magdelena without problems. When I lived in Miraflores crimes were noticable, even public attacks/robberies on tourist. You won't score much money places like Magdelena or Pueblo Libre.

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:18 am
by chi chi
tupacperu wrote:Thieves and Robbers go where there is money. I have lived in Pueblo Libre, Magdelena without problems. When I lived in Miraflores crimes were noticable, even public attacks/robberies on tourist. You won't score much money places like Magdelena or Pueblo Libre.


It's more interesting to steal a handbag from a girl in Miraflores than in Villa El Salvador.

The only place I have been approached by people who clearly want to steal from me is in Miraflores. At Parque Kennedy I got approached by someone asking for the time (and he was so stupid to wear a watch) and his accomplice was walking behind me. Also people bumped into me and I could feel their hand going into my jacket.

Most robbers don't live in Miraflores. The live in other neigbourhoods. They won't steal in their own neigbourhood because they can be recognized and people know them. They go to other neigbourhoods to steal where the chance that someone recognizes them is very small.

The steal something and then go hiding. My gf says that's why the call them 'chorros'.

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:38 am
by americorps
rama0929 wrote:
americorps wrote:Barranco crime is surprisingly high.


How so? I would think given the area you'd have a lot of petty crime there, with the occasional drunken reveler



Barranco is much higher than miralfores, san isidro and san borja for home robberies. Almost on par with some of the inner city areas. I agree with you about the street crime part and good point to bring that up..I should have been more clear.

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:17 am
by chi chi
americorps wrote:Chi Chi's comments are once again way off base about crime rates in the provinces and he sort of avoided all together that there are actually crime stats for Lima that show some neighborhoods much more crime ridden than others. I really wish for someone who feels the need to post 10 times on every topic, that he would try a little harder to provide accurate, useful and relevant information.


Americorps, I personnaly think that those crime statistics aren't reliable.
Because so many crimes don't get reported to police.

I think that if someone who lives in San Isidro gets his cellphone stolen, he will buy another one and not report it. As he can easily buy another one and the theft isn't big deal.

But if the cellphone gets stolen from someone who lives in a poor area. Often he won't have money to buy another one and the theft is a big problem. So, he will report it.

As police and politicians are corrupt, I think if in the case that Miraflores has a high crime rate, they won't be eager to admit or publicise that in order not to affect tourism and businesses.

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:24 am
by goingnowherefast
chi - A dog is a good defense for maybe a single female, or if you're leaving your home for an extended period. But if you are in your home during a home invasion, you're going to need something that can do more than bark and bite. How's that old saying go... you don't bring a dog to a gunfight?

I lived in Miraflores for about a year and never witnessed anything bad but heard a few purse snatching style stories. It's definitely a lot better than here (Quito) where in 3 months I've seen several armed robberies and had people try to break in. Now I understand why no one else in my company wants to work here!

All I can say, is have a very firm, practical plan for dealing with a home invasion, one that involves a firearm. A drugged/drunk armed robber will laugh at dogs and alarms. You never think it will happen to you until it does.

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:31 am
by chi chi
goingnowherefast wrote:All I can say, is have a very firm, practical plan for dealing with a home invasion, one that involves a firearm.


Having a firearm can get you in more trouble than the robber.
The robber probably has more experience than you using a firearm so probably will shoot you first.

Taking all the measures to avoid a home invasion is more recommendable. And in the case something gets stolen, you can replace it. But you cannot replace your family or yourself.

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:53 pm
by goingnowherefast
"The robber probably has more experience than you using a firearm so probably will shoot you first."

1st off, no, I highly doubt that.

Secondly, firearms save innocent lives in these situations. Read the following links about 2 women home alone during the holidays, and firearms saved their lives. They follow the proper channels in an emergency situation (calling authorities first) then they acted accordingly to protect themselves and their families. Without firearms their situations would have been very different.

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2011/12/29/fort ... -intruder/
http://news.yahoo.com/okla-woman-shoots ... 06413.html

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:44 pm
by Kelly
1 - let's please not turn this into a "Guns" thread. That's not what the OP is asking about.

2 - Remember that Peru is not the US - if you use a weapon against an unarmed attacker - even if they're in your house - YOU will most likely go to jail.

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:00 pm
by KenBE
tupacperu wrote:Thieves and Robbers go where there is money. I have lived in Pueblo Libre, Magdelena without problems. When I lived in Miraflores crimes were noticable, even public attacks/robberies on tourist. You won't score much money places like Magdelena or Pueblo Libre.

I don't really agree with this. Crime happens everywhere in Peru and I think most of it actually happens in the really poor areas (slums) and to really poor people. As soon as you have anything of value you are a target (even if it is just a cell phone or digital camera). Most Peruvians I know are quite poor and all of them have been robbed too many times to count.

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:09 pm
by goingnowherefast
Kelly - I'd rather spend a little time in jail than have the unmentionable happen to me or family.

Moral of the story is to take your precautions (which I didn't) and God willing these things wont happen.

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:43 pm
by chi chi
goingnowherefast wrote:Kelly - I'd rather spend a little time in jail than have the unmentionable happen to me or family.


And you will to pay a hugh compensation to the family of the person killed.



If you feel safe or not, it's generally up to yourself. I feel just as safe in Miraflores as in Villa El Salvador.
But in Villa El Salvador, I've never been approached by beggars or people asking me for the time. (In order to rob me)
It also depends on how you deal with danger. If someone comes up to me and I think the person is going to hassle me, then I talk very loud and rude. If they are too close to me, I push them away.
If robbers think, you will resist, they normally walk away and look for an easier victim that's scared.

Be aware, fear attracts criminals.

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:19 pm
by goingnowherefast
Lol... tell that to the 2 women in the articles I sent you.

Naiveness attract criminals.

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:26 pm
by chi chi
goingnowherefast wrote:Lol... tell that to the 2 women in the articles I sent you.

Naiveness attract criminals.


But those woman had a gun. I don't know any Peruvian girls that walks with a gun on the street.
There are courses for self defence available especially for woman.

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:29 pm
by goingnowherefast
Both women were victims of home invasions while being attacked and successfully used firearms to thwart invaders.

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:24 pm
by jude
chi chi wrote:There are courses for self defence available especially for woman.


There are, but if anything they give a false sense of security. The average woman, even with some self defense training is not going to win a physical fight with a man.

Back to the original question. I'm female, in my 20s, and feel confident walking around Miraflores until fairly late in the evening. There's no way I'd do that in Pueblo Libre, Magdelena, or other areas that chi chi mentioned.

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:41 pm
by mateo
My father-in-law won't even let me go to the ¨cheap¨ fruit/produce markets without him because he worries for my safety.

I am 39 yrs old, 6 feet tall, about 200 lbs, trim, and done my share of fighting.

One the one hand I find it sweet of him...on the other hand it makes me think a lot. lol

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:28 pm
by chi chi
mateo wrote:My father-in-law won't even let me go to the ¨cheap¨ fruit/produce markets without him because he worries for my safety.

I am 39 yrs old, 6 feet tall, about 200 lbs, trim, and done my share of fighting.

One the one hand I find it sweet of him...on the other hand it makes me think a lot. lol


I notice that Peruvians are scared. Especially, if they have to leave their neigbourhood. They always think they are getting robbed. I think that they listen too much to the stories they 'hear'. If people hear a bad story, they like to exagerate it, too make it more interesting.

And I think that many people make up stories about attacks and so. Which is understandable if they live in a village in La Selva where nothing happens and people are bored because there's nothing to and never anyhing new to talk about. A good rumour brings some life in town.

When I am in the center of Tarapoto late at night and go home after dark to Las Palmas (10minutes drive) then people tell me that's dangerous. I go everyday home after dark for 2 years and use that route and never have had any problem or seen any problem.

I heard that 4 years ago a girl got robbed on that road but people are talking about that like it happens everyday.

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:45 pm
by americorps
chi chi, it is abundantly clear that you have no knowledge of the crime rates in any area of Peru because you comments do not resemble those facts at any juncture of this conversation.

I was looking at the report when I was in the comisario of San Borja recently, and they were published a couple of years ago in the commercio, though I am unable to find them online at this moment.

Then remember how many crimes go unreported.

A little fact really helps make .. or break...your opinions.

Re: Security in Miraflores

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:49 pm
by chi chi
americorps wrote:chi chi, it is abundantly clear that you have no knowledge of the crime rates in any area of Peru because you comments do not resemble those facts at any juncture of this conversation.

I was looking at the report when I was in the comisario of San Borja recently, and they were published a couple of years ago in the commercio, though I am unable to find them online at this moment.

Then remember how many crimes go unreported.

A little fact really helps make .. or break...your opinions.


I don't believe in those crime rates that are publicised. There's so much corruption in the police and government. Also who knows who is important.
Even if Miraflores was the most dangerous area, then they won't publicise a bad crime rate.
Miraflores is a tourist area and the mayor obviously doesn't want that bad crime rates are publicised to avoid drop in tourism. So, it must always be look good.

We had the same in Belgium. It was revealed that crime rates were manipulated and give people a false sense of safety. Of course, probably some big property owner that were friends of some politicians were involved to get the prices of their property rising as the area is now 'safe'.

And it also happens in the US.
Read the following link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/nyreg ... wanted=all