they walk like they drive

Answers to your qestions about moving to, and living in, Peru,
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SilverbackPeru
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby SilverbackPeru » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:19 am

This personal space comment has made me laugh but bloody hell it doesnt half **** me off, especially in the gym! there can be a empty gym and you have your own little space where you´ve put your seat and weights and someone comes and stands about 2foot away from you despite the fact the entire gym is empty just about!! Its especially annoying when your lifting a bit of weight and they walk past you as close as possible not caring weather they nudge the bar and if that weight end ups dropping on you and crushing your chest lol

another one as well....when entering lifts if they are the first in the queue to enter the lift they never go to the back of the lift, instead the first to enter the lift will stand right at the very front of the lift enterance and then look at you in a confused state as you rage cos theres 2 people blocking the way in and neither is prepared to move back to let you in! lol


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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby Kelly » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:40 pm

SilverbackPeru wrote:another one as well....when entering lifts if they are the first in the queue to enter the lift they never go to the back of the lift, instead the first to enter the lift will stand right at the very front of the lift enterance and then look at you in a confused state as you rage cos theres 2 people blocking the way in and neither is prepared to move back to let you in! lol



Just tell them "al fondo hay sitio!" :lol:
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby chi chi » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:38 pm

SilverbackPeru wrote:another one as well....when entering lifts if they are the first in the queue to enter the lift they never go to the back of the lift, instead the first to enter the lift will stand right at the very front of the lift enterance and then look at you in a confused state as you rage cos theres 2 people blocking the way in and neither is prepared to move back to let you in! lol


When taking the bus, you get instructions from the cobrador.

´´suba, suba, suba´´
´´baja, baja, baja´´

Makes life a lot easier.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby renodante » Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:55 am

Its especially annoying when your lifting a bit of weight and they walk past you as close as possible not caring weather they nudge the bar


i'll never, ever understand it. and when there's more than enough room for them to walk to where their going and be nowhere near you. "when in doubt, walk directly towards someone"

another one as well....when entering lifts if they are the first in the queue to enter the lift they never go to the back of the lift, instead the first to enter the lift will stand right at the very front of the lift enterance and then look at you in a confused state as you rage cos theres 2 people blocking the way in and neither is prepared to move back to let you in!


"Me first, you're irrelevant" is the general attitude. Just yesterday, about an hour after posting about this stuff, I got on the elevator here at my place, and a guy got on with me on the way down. We stopped on a floor and the doors opened, and the guy did not immediately see someone standing there to get in, so he proceeded to mash the "close" buttons on the elevator repeatedly, which resulted in the guy who was waiting to the side, out of sight, to get bumped by the closing doors as he walked in.

not one word of "disculpame, perdon" or whatever. just a straight face and staring at the numbers as we went down. "me first."
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby SilverbackPeru » Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:26 am

it reached a new high this week for people just not caring about personal space for me, in the gym i was doing shoulder presses on a power cage and half way thru my set some guy came up and started using the same power cage i was on to do shoulder stretches. Seriously 5 people in the entire gym and theres even a second power cage or just walls to use to do shoulder stretches WHY attempt to share a piece of equipment!!! lol

Then while benching on the same power cage someone decided to do sit ups to the right hand side of the cage under the bar! again 5 people in the gym, plenty of space anywhere at all! why...why do sit ups under a moving bar with weight on! im no einstein but i wouldn´t want to put my head any where under someone benching in case they dropped it, i dont want a head like a crushed watermelon!

the phrase mention in previous posts "when in doubt go to where someone else" is came to mind and really made me laugh when that happened tho! lol
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby falconagain » Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:10 pm

SilverbackPeru wrote:it reached a new high this week for people just not caring about personal space for me, in the gym i was doing shoulder presses on a power cage and half way thru my set some guy came up and started using the same power cage i was on to do shoulder stretches. Seriously 5 people in the entire gym and theres even a second power cage or just walls to use to do shoulder stretches WHY attempt to share a piece of equipment!!! lol

Then while benching on the same power cage someone decided to do sit ups to the right hand side of the cage under the bar! again 5 people in the gym, plenty of space anywhere at all! why...why do sit ups under a moving bar with weight on! im no einstein but i wouldn´t want to put my head any where under someone benching in case they dropped it, i dont want a head like a crushed watermelon!

the phrase mention in previous posts "when in doubt go to where someone else" is came to mind and really made me laugh when that happened tho! lol


The problem is that there is no good exercise books available to the general public at an affordable
price or through library loans, due to this many people whenever go to the gym try to imitate the
person that appears to be knowledgeable at the gym, they want to copy and at the same avoid the
task of reading.

What is even worse is that they do not even like to admit that they are ignorant on the subject, and
avoid any form of conversation due to their useless pride.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby rama0929 » Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:49 pm

falconagain wrote:
The problem is that there is no good exercise books available to the general public at an affordable
price or through library loans, due to this many people whenever go to the gym try to imitate the
person that appears to be knowledgeable at the gym, they want to copy and at the same avoid the
task of reading.

What is even worse is that they do not even like to admit that they are ignorant on the subject, and
avoid any form of conversation due to their useless pride.


I'm more concerned that they can't spend a sol to go to an internet and look at a youtube video describing whatever excersise it is they're intrested in.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby chi chi » Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:12 pm

renodante wrote:
i'll never, ever understand it. and when there's more than enough room for them to walk to where their going and be nowhere near you. "when in doubt, walk directly towards someone"


I was in Lima in the last 5 weeks and I walk in the busiest streets in Gamarra, La Victoria, the historic center and only once somebody bumped into me. It was a drunk and he appologized.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby americorps » Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:48 pm

chi chi wrote:
renodante wrote:
i'll never, ever understand it. and when there's more than enough room for them to walk to where their going and be nowhere near you. "when in doubt, walk directly towards someone"


I was in Lima in the last 5 weeks and I walk in the busiest streets in Gamarra, La Victoria, the historic center and only once somebody bumped into me. It was a drunk and he appologized.


Sorry, but I do not believe you for one second.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby chi chi » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:30 pm

americorps wrote:
chi chi wrote:
renodante wrote:
i'll never, ever understand it. and when there's more than enough room for them to walk to where their going and be nowhere near you. "when in doubt, walk directly towards someone"


I was in Lima in the last 5 weeks and I walk in the busiest streets in Gamarra, La Victoria, the historic center and only once somebody bumped into me. It was a drunk and he appologized.


Sorry, but I do not believe you for one second.


If people bump into you then it's because you are walking wrong. I walk normal. Always very slow. I am never in a hurry. I don't see other people bumping in each other. I don't understand why some gringos get bumped into.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby curlyguy18 » Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:37 pm

falconagain wrote:
There is a minimum of requirements for all civilized people, ...... In
Chile you can even complain to the police and they will get a night in jail for that kind of
behavior
.


Falconagain, then what are you doing in an "uncivlised" country, as you have clearly implied in your post? Perhaps you should go to a civilised country that doesn't bug you so much. As for the second bit, perhaps you may have not noticed, you're not in Chile. If you think it's a lot better south of the border, the border is always open. Civilisation is a very subjective word.

Silverbackperu, perhaps you're quite the looker? 8)
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby americorps » Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:38 am

lol, thats funny, out of touch and weird.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby curlyguy18 » Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:57 am

I find it a bit rich when foreigners call Peru or any other country uncivilized as if their own countries were very civilized. I can think of a lot of things about Europe and North America I would classify as uncivilized.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby americorps » Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:14 am

curlyguy18 wrote:I find it a bit rich when foreigners call Peru or any other country uncivilized as if their own countries were very civilized. I can think of a lot of things about Europe and North America I would classify as uncivilized.


I call that statement rather disingenuous as no one say Peru was uncivilized, but making reference to a specific behavior. And most of the people who have made such a reference will gladly and without hesitation make reference to uncivilized behaviors in their own country, so Peru is not being called an uncivilized country and neither is it being compared to other countries. The discussion is about one particular behavior common in this country that is very rude, not a match of nation against nation and to try and drag the discussion down to that level is nationalistic, not factual.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby curlyguy18 » Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:02 am

It wasn't said explicitly but it was implied. A comparison with Chile was made at the end of the post.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby falconagain » Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:47 pm

curlyguy18 wrote:
falconagain wrote:
There is a minimum of requirements for all civilized people, ...... In
Chile you can even complain to the police and they will get a night in jail for that kind of
behavior
.


Falconagain, then what are you doing in an "uncivlised" country, as you have clearly implied in your post? Perhaps you should go to a civilised country that doesn't bug you so much. As for the second bit, perhaps you may have not noticed, you're not in Chile. If you think it's a lot better south of the border, the border is always open. Civilisation is a very subjective word.

Silverbackperu, perhaps you're quite the looker? 8)


Curly I do not think that you yourself would tolerate other people sitting across your table in order
to eavesdrop in what you read or talk about in with any of your friends. Or even tolerate somebody
throwing trash on your meal. Are you telling me that such behavior such be condoned?

I am Peruvian myself and I have seen many Peruvians behave this way, sometimes I was a witness;
and sometimes I was on the receiving end of their bad behavior practices and many of this incidents
happened in the United States. Whenever you become a resident and as a citizen of the US or any
other country a usual requirement is good behavior so you have to be extremely careful and avoid
confrontations like in Lima. Because of that I was not able to respond in the same way as in Lima
to them. But if they did the same thing to an american, they would have end up in a hospital on
a coma and the police/media would have looked the other way.

My comments are no different from the ones made by Maria Arguedas, Cesar Vallejo, Vargas Llosa or
Valdelomar, all of them Peruvian writers that point out this problems not with the intention of making the
country look bad. But with the intention that people correct themselves and improve the lives
of everybody within the country.

Peru is currently promoting itself as a tourist destination and a strong economy, because of that
they have signed agreements and they are bind to certain standards which include the way all
the population behaves. Look at the way the Ministry of Education changed the educational programs
when the free trade agreements were signed.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby curlyguy18 » Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:12 pm

I honestly have never experienced or even witnessed what you're describing; neither here nor abroad. And if it happens I'm pretty sure it's not common practice everywhere in Lima or in the rest of the country; meaning not everyone does this.
And yes, Peru is being promoted as a tourist destination, which is great, but people can't expect it to be the same as their own countries, can they? There are things that are both good and bad about a culture and those "bad" things, whilst they can be improved, they sometimes can't be changed, unfortunately.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby rama0929 » Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:33 pm

curlyguy18 wrote:And yes, Peru is being promoted as a tourist destination, which is great, but people can't expect it to be the same as their own countries, can they?


Of course not.

Regardless, they can and should expect common courtesy.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby falconagain » Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:42 pm

People do change, you just need to get the right incentive.

Unfortunately all of us in Peru are subject to certain degree to the Peruvian Mentality
which is actually stuck in the middle ages. I am posting a very detailed description of
the Peruvian mentality extracted from a University Research essays, there is plenty of
essays and Peruvian books where the mentality is described but for reasons of space
I will post only this short text (the essay actually hopes that someday the Peruvian mentality
changes, maybe in 300 years).

This document extract is actually a very good reference for any expat of the Peruvian
society inner workings. Say thank you to google for the translation.

"The Peruvian Case
In analyzing the psychological reality of our country, we are confronted with the problem of unity vs. plurality, ie if there are one or more Peruvian mentality.

The importance of clarifying this issue is linked with three options for the design of strategies: 1) A single, common strategy for all Peruvians, b) Various strategies tailored to the social reality of each subsystem, and c) A comprehensive strategy, including factors common to all subsystems together with specific strategies for each subsystem.

For this purpose, requires starting the analysis based on the current state of knowledge of the mentality and the factors that influence it.

Psycho-Social Barriers to Development

The current state of research on this subject we can only identify the existence of certain attitudes that are barriers to the progress of the modernization process in Peru. You can only detect its presence, not their size or geographical distribution. Its origins can be traced to the characteristics of the Company, the State and cultures involved in the field of history.

1.Fatalismo. - Understood as a deterministic world view that says that everything is set in advance by a higher authority:

God, Apu, Huamaní, Race, destiny or luck. It is expressed in popular beliefs such as that "some are born with star and other star-born" or that "everyone is born with his plate and no one can escape it." It helps to counter any attempt to overcome, considering it futile because the designs incontrovertible higher court. It is sometimes a rationalization for not undertaking any development project since it is instrumental for the purpose of "looking good reasons for doing nothing." It is linked to the existence of "masking myths" that exist in the traditional culture of Domination Unit (Salazar Bondy, 1966), such as that "In Peru does not save anyone."

2.Autoritarismo. - Consisting of the concentration of decision making in the leader or boss or authority figure (parent, teacher, priest, etc.) with little or no involvement of the followers. Generates arbitrariness and injustice, and breeds mistrust between rulers and ruled. The authoritarian trust only the "loyal", understanding and unconditional loyalty. Therefore, the granting of posts, bribes and all kinds of favors prefers close family, political, regional or race to be surrounded by people who "defends her position." It generalizes the use of nepotism, the rod and tarjetazo to enter and advance in organizations. The criteria for granting favors is the trained ability, but ascriptive criteria such as "trust", understood as uncritical submission to the will of the "bossy" in turn.

Those who wish to gain the favor of the authoritarian turn to careerism (Delgado, 1967), consisting in the attempt to climb the social ladder using the tools of "sovereign" or flattery genuflexa toward authority figures, and "crack" or destructive criticism, designed to discredit rivals in the struggle for obtaining privileges. Thus, consolidating the mediocracy and reduce possibilities for the development of meritocracy that is inherent to modernity.

The act of upstart is based on beliefs such as that, "not worth so much how much you know but who you know ',' must be well with all," "being right with God, the saints are tenants' etc.. When running errands, try to ingratiate themselves with their heads, guided by the idea that "do not converse with the clowns but the owner of the circus."

Both nepotism and careerism are the result of a society characterized by political feudalization (Cotler, 1978) and State (Rubio, 1993) where political power encourages clientelism, ie the grant made in exchange for votes, and where political parties act as employment agencies, based on the premise that you need to create power bases administrative and electoral motivated by gratitude to the party that gave them the job. Thus, power is government spending, bureaucracy, corruption and government inefficiency.

The projection of hostility toward social groups considered as "non-I" generated a set of social prejudice, racial, political, regional and gender by which discriminates against people based on class, race, political affiliation, geographical origin or sex operating as mechanisms of social exclusion. Expression of this is the requirement of "good appearance" in the recruitment notices, or belief that: "Indian, pigeon and cat, ungrateful animal" when it comes to race. The regional stereotypes abound and are expressed in the phrase "to give shelter to the pilgrim, except the Cajamarca" or the "Arequipa, neither big nor small." On the other hand, the preference for the citizen ("the citizen comes before God") or fellow "licensed collector" creates favorable conditions for the bureaucracy and inefficiency of the state apparatus.

The gender bias is expressed in the attitude of machismo, based in the belief of male superiority over women. Originates behaviors such as sexual adventure, which sees women as fertility trophy and compulsive, which uses fertility as varonía expression, which contributes mightily to the population explosion and paternal desertion. Add to this aggression, expressed as the tendency to wash any blood stain against their own honor and that may culminate in celotípicos delusions and abuse and even murder of the spouse.

Authoritarianism takes hold: 1) in a social structure of domination and dependence (Cotler, 1978), which includes a high social ranking and a tendency social discrimination, 2) in a State which has dominated Centralist warlordism and where the standard has been repression (Rubio, 1993), and 3) in a political culture where traditionally been excluded from various sectors (Barrig, 1987) for the full enjoyment of their civil rights.

3. Low need for achievement. - The need for achievement (or achievement) (McClelland, 1961) is the willingness to compete with a level of excellence. It is the basis of the business mentality, whose components are: initiative, planning and acceptance of moderate levels of risk. McClelland is considered a crucial factor for development.

When the process of socialization of children and adolescents of a country does not include the stimulation of the need to conduct, develop, however, trends: 1) mediocrity, defined as a medium or low aspirations in life 2) the cualquierismo, based on the idea that anyone can do anything and do it well that's not important. This runs coupled with contempt or indifference to the effort that builds the optimal performance in a professional specialty. A third consequence of this is: 3) envy and meanness that guide behavior in preference to the destruction or discredit the successful person ("In Peru to succeed is a crime") or to the policy of "dog in the manger, not eat or stop eating, "preferring to remain a resource wasted or underutilized before giving it to who can best use it. 4) The lack of productivity, one of whose manifestations is the contempt for manual labor and the cult of idleness and laziness, which can be traced to colonial society and the slave system where the work was considered a biblical curse.

In Creole culture are beliefs related to work such contempt as "the living lives of silly and silly in their work" that discourage real efforts. It does not occur in the Andean culture, where community work is traditional and where leisure is a source of social rejection.

4) The native cunning, defined as the use of intelligence and creativity at the service of the violation of the rules. The lively Creole is active, smart and independent. Do not hesitate to sacrifice others to achieve their ambitions. It is linked with interpersonal orientation-type operator that serves to "make cholito" the unwary, especially from the Sierra, where is "just dropped."

The profile of native (Alva, 1965) includes the features of:

a. Opportunism and manipulation, it directed towards the achievement of all the privileges, with minimal effort and in the shortest time possible, using wit, playfulness and surprise. One such instrument is the use of bribery or 'Cutra "contributing to the spread of corruption, undermines the viability of a society and the credibility of governments, distorts investment, encourages the operation of the Public Administration and degrades the citizen.

b. Careerism, described above, and letting you move up without scruples of any kind, with opportunism and reckless daring tricks.

c. Improvisation and postponement of obligations to the last minute, doing things "a la criolla" carelessly, lack of rigor, without foresight though often with wit and inventiveness.

d. Presenteeism, which leads him to seize and enjoy the moment. Fundamentantes beliefs are the "living the binge eating but not tomorrow" or the "dance, dance, the world will end."

e. Fatalism, as described above and to prevent serious and clearly projected into the future.

The Peruvian cunning finds its sources in the culture of domination and dependence (Salazar Bondy, 1966), especially in the features of: mystification of values, attitudes and inauthenticity of improvisation purposes."
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby SilverbackPeru » Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:55 pm

come on chi chi the bumping into people doesn´t just happen to gringos, you just have to walk thru Jockey Plaza for 5 minutes to see it in full action. It happens plenty of times to me, but i see it all around Peruvians just bumping into one another like dogde´em cars!!! even 2 nights ago in plaza vea i seen a old guy walk straight into a cleaner who was standing still, the poor cleaner got the evil eye off the guy even tho he walked right into her. Obviously its the stationary persons fault i´m guessing lol

I was looking at something on a self once in jockey plaza and had someone with full body weight barge right into me to knock me out of the way so that she could look at the same item!! I would have been raging if it wasn´t for the fact it was a 80 year old woman! I just had to laugh at the situation! lol
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby SilverbackPeru » Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:11 pm

I Don´t think theres anything wrong with talking about problems that are in society as well! It doesn´t mean your belittling a place, talking about problems usually help solve the problems! You have to understand that If this was never to be talked about how would it ever be solved!!! Its just down to people being educated.

There are plus and minus points for everywhere! There might be things that are bad culturally here but theres things that are definatly a lot better! Being from the UK its nice to be able to walk around safe in parks and streets at night here and not have to worry about the problems that the U.K is having with Binge drinking and amount of alcohol fueled violence!!!
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby windsportinperu » Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:54 pm

This thread is interesting for peruvians, as well. It helps to understand your own society through the eyes of someone who wasn't born here..

"Personal Space" has been mentioned repeateadly here. While abroad invading your personal space is very offensive, in LatinAmerica we dont have the same concept so it is not the same thing..

I was trying to find a good source of information to help to understand it better and get this video, what is very funny, but very educative as well..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUCODUvKbzE
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby Kelly » Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:09 pm

I used to be like this - I'm pretty much over it, now.

Image
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby falconagain » Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:34 pm

windsportinperu wrote:This thread is interesting for peruvians, as well. It helps to understand your own society through the eyes of someone who wasn't born here..

"Personal Space" has been mentioned repeateadly here. While abroad invading your personal space is very offensive, in LatinAmerica we dont have the same concept so it is not the same thing..

I was trying to find a good source of information to help to understand it better and get this video, what is very funny, but very educative as well..

<span>[url]<a class="smarterwiki-linkify" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUCODUvKbzE[/url]">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUCODUvKbzE[/url]</a></span>


I was thought the concept of personal space at the University of Lima in two courses History of Western
Civilization (1995-1) and Sociology (1995-2). Both courses were also core courses and even had the same
teachers sometimes at the University of San Marcos and Pacifico. When I worked in Lima between 2007
and 2009 all college graduates (from Colleges like Ricardo Palma, San Martin , Sil) had also knowledge of
the concept.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby chi chi » Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:36 pm

SilverbackPeru wrote: Being from the UK its nice to be able to walk around safe in parks and streets at night here and not have to worry about the problems that the U.K is having with Binge drinking and amount of alcohol fueled violence!!!


Ha Ha Ha. I lived in the UK and I remember how the streets on a typical saturday night look like. Especially, when it's football. Then the town centre looks like a war zone.

We go often to a discoteca because my gf likes to dance. Here in Peru, people go to a discoteca to dance and to have a drink but they behave themselves.

I wouldn't set a foot in a discoteca in Belgium. There are always fights and probably everyone is on some kind of drugs. If you go into a nightclub in Belgium, for sure you someone will try to sell you some drugs. In Peru and also when I lived in Colombia, I have never been offered drugs by someone and never even have seen a fight.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby rama0929 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:57 am

chi chi wrote: In Peru and also when I lived in Colombia, I have never been offered drugs by someone and never even have seen a fight.


Probably should've gone to Boulevard... Shots fired, a few fights, prostitutes working out of nearby hotels...

Those discos have bouncers for a reason 8)
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby falconagain » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:43 pm

rama0929 wrote:
curlyguy18 wrote:And yes, Peru is being promoted as a tourist destination, which is great, but people can't expect it to be the same as their own countries, can they?


Of course not.

Regardless, they can and should expect common courtesy.


Good manners have no nationality Curlyguy.


curlyguy18 wrote:t you're describing; neither here nor abroad. And if it happens I'm pretty sure it's not common practice everywhere in Lima or in the rest of the country; meaning not everyone does this.


Actually the sad thing is that almost everybody behaves that way. Now as an example the testimony
of Vargas Llosa about one of the worst Peruvian customs "The Art of Delaying something forever",
which was published on the year 2010 in el Comercio.


***********************************
"The art of delaying", a tasty article by Mario Vargas Llosa

The award-winning writer tells how one company took more than a year to install a fireplace in your house in Barranco

Sunday February 21, 2010 - 10:26 a.m.
This morning, at lunchtime, I heard my daughter Morgan tell stories that he tells her and Stefan, her husband, the Magic cable company to justify its delay in instalarles the cable television system. I swear they go this afternoon, tomorrow, tomorrow afternoon, and never will. Fed up with so many stories, have decided to switch to the competition, Direct TV, to see if more time.
What happened to Morgana Stefan and I have had several hours remembering the wonderful story of SA Rodriguez Vents I lived and suffered about twelve months, here in Lima, the joke makes thirty. We had bought a house on the corner of the city we wanted, oceanfront Barranco, and an architect friend, Cartridge Miro Quesada, I had designed the entire second floor of the studio of my dreams: bookcases, a desk very long very thick board, a squad of chairs to chat with friends, and a fireplace beside which have a comfortable very comfortable and a good reading lamp.

The circumstances would make the most memorable part of the study were, in time and unforeseen reasons, the fireplace. It was metal, air and cylindrical cartridge had designed himself, like a sculpture. Who would manufacture? Someone, perhaps the same cartridge, I recommended that indescribable company appellation refrigerated: Ventilation Rodriguez SA I remember that afternoon, at dusk, its owner and manager, the engineer Rodriguez, appeared in my study yet available to sign the contract. He was young, energetic, talkative, friendly fiercely. He heard the explanations of the architect, the plans sounded dowsers eyes, said two or three details with security expert and concluded: "The chimney will be ready in two weeks."

We explained that we should not rush so much. The study would only be completed within six weeks. "That's their problem," he said, with a lunge bullfighting. "I'll list the fortnight. You can pick it up whenever they want. "

Broke like a shot and never saw him again until now. But I swear that his name and his ghost was the most consistent and recurring presence in all the months following that meeting only, while the study has been constructed and filled with books, papers, records, typewriters, tables, furniture, carpets and the ceiling void was still there, showing the gray sky of Lima and waiting for the fire that never came.

My contacts with Rodriguez Ventilation Inc. were intense, but only phone. At some point I got to get an insane passion for the secretary of the engineer Rodriguez, who also never saw the face or knew his name. But I remember her voice, her flattery, their pauses, inflections, its theater everyday, as if he had called half an hour ago. Talk to her every morning, five days a week, became a rite unbreakable my life, like reading newspapers, eating breakfast and shower.

"What story will you tell me today, Miss?" Greeted me.

She never got angry. It had the same irresistible sympathy of their chief and, smiling and friendly, was interested in my health and my family before demoralizing the pretext of the day. I confess that I expected this moment with great fascination. Never be repeated, had an endless repertoire of explanations to justify the unjustifiable: the weeks passed, months, quarters and the damn chimney never came to my house. Trivial things happened as the Lord of the cast fell prisoner of influenza with high fever, or catastrophes such as fires or deaths. Everything worth. One day, I had lost patience and shouted into the phone like a madman, the versatile secretary disarmed me this way:

"Oh, Mr. Vargas Llosa, you riñéndome and amargándose life and I'm here watching the sky, I say."

"What do you see the sky? What do you mean? "

"That we dropped the ceiling, I swear. Last night, when nobody was there. But that is not accident that gives me more grief, but have been wrong with you. Tomorrow we brought your fireplace without fail, word. "
One day he had the extraordinary cold blood to make sure that:

"Oh, Mr. Vargas Llosa, you getting so bad blood here and I see your beautiful fireplace, brand new, starting at the truck that takes her to his house."

He lied so wonderfully well, with so much poise and sweetness, it was impossible not to believe him. The next day, when I called to tell him that it was impossible for the truck that brought me the fire is delayed more than twenty-four hours to get to Lima Colonial Avenue to Barranco (no more than five miles) was exceeded itself, assuring in the act with accent and almost tearful distress:

"Oh, you can not imagine the terrible misfortune that happened: the fire truck collided with her and now the driver is with a concussion in the Hospital Obrero. Fortunately, the fire had not a scratch. "

History lasted more than one year. When the fire finally reached the home of Barranco and we had almost gotten used to the ceiling void, one day, a dove distracted strayed and landed on my desk. The most fun-o-the tragic end of this episode was that the fire could only use blessed once. With disastrous results: the study was filled with smoke, everything is messed up and I had an onset of asphyxia. Never tried on.

That mythological vents secretary Rodriguez SA Cultist pride was a widespread practice in Peru that is nothing short of a national sport: the art of rock. "Rocking" is a Peruvianism which means maintaining long a person in the uncertainty and deception, but not in a raw or crude, but friendly and even affectionate, adormeciéndola, throwing in a vague confusion, dorándole the pill, telling the story, and aturdiéndola mareándola so that they think they are, although not so tired that ends up leaving and desist from what he claims or intends to achieve. The victim, if it has been "rocked" with talent, despite notice at any time that you have put your finger to the mouth, not angry, ends up resigned to defeat and is happy to recognizing and admiring even the good work you have done with it. "Rocking" is a task difficult, requiring histrionic talent, parliamentary suasive, grace, unhelpful, sympathy, and just a hint of cynicism.

Behind the "meceo" is, of course, informality and a table of values ​​upside down. But also a frivolous philosophy, which considers life as a representation in which truth and falsehood are relative and exchangeable, due, no correspondence between what is said and what is done, between words and things, but the persuasiveness of that "rock" over who is "rocked". Ultimately, life, for this way of acting and this morality is pure theater. The practical result of living "rocking" or being "rocked" is that all it takes, is wrong, nothing works and reign everywhere confusion and frustration. But this is a narrowly pragmatic consideration of rock art. The generous and art is that thanks to meceo, life is fun, farce, slapstick, game, masquerade.

If the Peruvians to invest all the fantasy and skill they put into "rock" to each other in doing good things and meet their commitments, this would be the most developed country in the world. But how boring!
***************

Say thank you to google translator. Looks Vargas Llosa lives in Peru and his books are used as reference
in colleges all over the world. His criticism is even more detailed and accurate than mine but nobody
is telling him to leave Peru or denying reality.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby Jimmy111 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:17 pm

My wife is Peruvian and she is as courteous and sensible as they come.
However I suspect that she is the only one in her family that got those genes....
The rest of her family is as obnoxious and backstabbing in ways that can not be written on the internet.
Neither I or she knows why they are that way. Just that they are.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby renodante » Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:33 pm

come on chi chi


it's a lot easier if you just assume all of his/her posts are fictional. trust me.

I would have been raging if it wasn´t for the fact it was a 80 year old woman!


they're often the worst offenders with the kind of thing we're talking about. especially super old "Pitucas."
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby rama0929 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:47 pm

Jimmy111 wrote:My wife is Peruvian and she is as courteous and sensible as they come.
However I suspect that she is the only one in her family that got those genes....
The rest of her family is as obnoxious and backstabbing in ways that can not be written on the internet.
Neither I or she knows why they are that way. Just that they are.


I got a call a couple of days, long distance from Peru, chismes about an ex of mine. I still don't know how they got my number. Dude blew up my phone, he called me around 10 times. If there was something I couldn't care less about it would be who my ex is hooking up with in Peru. I guess they thought I'd get jealous or angry?
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby chi chi » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:12 am

rama0929 wrote:
chi chi wrote: In Peru and also when I lived in Colombia, I have never been offered drugs by someone and never even have seen a fight.


Probably should've gone to Boulevard... Shots fired, a few fights, prostitutes working out of nearby hotels...

Those discos have bouncers for a reason 8)


I stay out of Miraflores to avoid the things you mentioned.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby rama0929 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:48 am

chi chi wrote:
rama0929 wrote:
chi chi wrote: In Peru and also when I lived in Colombia, I have never been offered drugs by someone and never even have seen a fight.


Probably should've gone to Boulevard... Shots fired, a few fights, prostitutes working out of nearby hotels...

Those discos have bouncers for a reason 8)


I stay out of Miraflores to avoid the things you mentioned.


Which is fine, but Boulevard Los Olivos isn't in Miraflores... :wink:

You have a Peruvian gf in Lima, and you've never been to Boulevard? :shock:
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby SilverbackPeru » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:13 pm

chi chi wrote:
rama0929 wrote:
chi chi wrote: In Peru and also when I lived in Colombia, I have never been offered drugs by someone and never even have seen a fight.


Probably should've gone to Boulevard... Shots fired, a few fights, prostitutes working out of nearby hotels...

Those discos have bouncers for a reason 8)


I stay out of Miraflores to avoid the things you mentioned.


I´m no expert on Lima, but you don´t really get things like fights and gun shots do you in Miraflores, ok i´ve heard that hookers hang around pizza street etc, but it really comes across as very safe when im in Miraflores.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby renodante » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:53 pm

I´m no expert on Lima, but you don´t really get things like fights and gun shots do you in Miraflores, ok i´ve heard that hookers hang around pizza street etc, but it really comes across as very safe when im in Miraflores.


I've lived in dangerous neighborhoods. In the U.S, and here in Lima, and what Chi Chi says again and again about how dangerous miraflores is always makes me shake my head. It's complete nonsense.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby Jimmy111 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:38 pm

Ive never had a problem in Callao. Never even heard a gunshot or had anything stolen. But Ive heard a lot of people complain of being robbed in Miraflores or had their apartments broken into.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby chi chi » Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:36 pm

Jimmy111 wrote:Ive never had a problem in Callao. Never even heard a gunshot or had anything stolen. But Ive heard a lot of people complain of being robbed in Miraflores or had their apartments broken into.


When you ask people in poor districts how they think how some people can afford to live in Miraflores or San Isidro and drive nice cars then you hear 'narcotraficantes or cocaleros'. It's for sure than many of the people that can afford to live in those areas made a fortune in the cocaine trade.

Like Jimmy said, there are a lot of robberies and burglaries in Miraflores. Simply, it's more interesting. In poor areas, there won't be a lot to steal. I guess it's more interesting to steal a handbag from someone who lives in Miraflores than stealing a handbag from a girl that lives in Barrios Altos.

Thieves live everywhere. The small thieves live in poor areas. The big thieves live in rich areas.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby Kelly » Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:04 am

Yeah, this isn't happening in Miraflores.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5UWOf96QRw
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby laura diestra » Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:35 pm

tomsax wrote:Chi chi, in Peru you are a "gringo" whether you like it or not.




excuse me we may be forigners but the word gringo is offensive and i tell people so if they do not like it tough but they need to be taught manners i would never direspect anyone here so do not to it to me.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby Comet » Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:21 pm

americorps wrote:in rome, did they not legalize rape, torture, child molestation and feed Christians to the lions?

Well :wink: the "Christians to the lions" part is ok
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby hoyce » Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:16 pm

you are a gringo here so quit crying, even if you have peruvian friends and you are not present they are going to refer to you as the gringo. at the school where we teach, the teachers will tell the students to go with "the gringos" and when they answer the phone they'll say they can't talk because they are in a meeting with the gringos. when you go through a pueblo little children will follow and point and smile yelling "gringos".

get over yourself and quit looking for occasions to be offended, the offensive term is "crudo" which is the white gooey part of the chicken that you throw away; that is the offensive term for gringo and if someone calls you it - you can then be offended with cause.

i was about as dumb as you on my first trip 20 years ago.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby renodante » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:39 pm

yeah you're really going to have to get over being called a gringo. it's not a big deal and it's only derogatory in certain contexts. everyone i know here calls me that (including to my face) and they mean it affectionately.

this isn't PC europe/u.s.

the offensive term is "crudo"


interesting. 3 years here and that's the first time hearing about this. wonder how many times i've been called that and just didn't know what the hell they were saying haha
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby Kelly » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:38 pm

Crudo means "raw" or uncooked, so I can see it being applied to pale skin, although I've never heard it used.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby Kelly » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:44 pm

hoyce wrote:i was about as dumb as you on my first trip 20 years ago.



I think perhaps the word you're looking for would be "naive" rather than dumb. It's got nothing to do with intelligence and more to do with a lack of experience.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby chi chi » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:05 pm

laura diestra wrote:excuse me we may be forigners but the word gringo is offensive and i tell people so if they do not like it tough but they need to be taught manners i would never direspect anyone here so do not to it to me.


In Peru, you are either el gringo, el negro, la flaquita, el gordo, el cholo, la negrita, el viejo or la china.

It's normal to call people like they look.
El gringo is not particularly used for foreigners it's used for people with white skin. In Tarapoto, some of my neighbours were white but they were Peruvians and they were always called 'gringos' as well.

My gf looks Asian so she's called 'la china' by our neighboors.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby goingnowherefast » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:50 am

Gringo is inherently an offensive term. Its what the Mexicans used to call the American soldiers when we were down there kickin' ass and taking names.

The Peruvians also know that this is an offensive term, you're not going to hear people in banks or tour guides using it to refer to foreigners. My girl's family are also respectful enough to not use the word when I'm around and I've never been called that in professional setting. They know.

I've just learned to laugh if off and say ahaha poor little backwards ignorant Peruvian with the mullet doesn't know any better, one day he'll want to get out of the stone age.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby americorps » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:13 am

first of all, your understanding of the etymology of the word is not generally accepted by linguists, and is considered nothing more than a folk story as to the origins of the term. It is often repeated, but do not confuse an oft repeated story with a true one.

In Mexico, it is meant as an offensive term.

In Peru it is not, plain and simple you are imposing the values of another culture on Peruvians.

That is not correct.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby roddd » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:25 am

The only time i was called a gringo was when i went to buy a car in Tacna , and all i heard was people shouting Gringo to try and get me to look at and buy their car, after hearing Gringo being shouted for 2 or 3 hours it started to grind my nerves a bit,
then i used to get called the Americano when i lived in a block of apartments, its alright being called the Americano from upstairs ,but when you are English like me it wears a bit thin ,no disrespect to Americans of course, funny thing is as soon as i stopped wearing a baseball hat the Americano shouts stopped .
and in London i get called quite a few names most of which i cant say on this forum :)
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby goingnowherefast » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:53 am

americorps - You care to share some factual backing to what you say? I've heard some say it comes from the word 'griego' but given the proximity of Greece to the Spanish speaking world I don't buy that. It's an offensive term dude, Mexico and Peru aren't worlds away from each other, both of them know what it means and I've had people call me that in Peru and I know they meant it in an offensive way.

Half the problem are all these English teacher types who are so eager to be accepted that they refer to themselves as gringos.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby Kelly » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:09 pm

First of all, Mexico and Peru are worlds apart, linguistically speaking, as much as or more so than the US and England.

As far as the "green go" home part - The Mexican-American war took place in the mid 1800s, but the term "gringo" was being used in Spain at least as early as the late 1700s, so it's highly unlikely it came from the war. The term was used in Spain long before it was used in the Americas.

http://books.google.com.pe/books?id=09N ... &q&f=false - start reading at Sec.2.

And there are people who will use "gringo" in an insulting manner, just like there are some that will use "cholo" or "gordo" or "zambo" or a million other descriptive words here as an insult. But they also use those same word as terms of affection. In Peru, those terms themselves aren't inherently insulting, it all depends on who's using it and how they use it. My husband calls me "gringuita" all the time, and I don't see anything insulting about it - but when his ex calls me "ese maldita gringa", yeah, she means it as an insult.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby americorps » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:11 pm

Thank´s Kelly.

You are right, to suggest that Peruvian language use and Mexican language use is virtually identical is an unsupportable concept in my eyes.

Further, I have posted here many times the etymology myths of the word gringo, but there are people who just con not possibly imagine they are wrong no matter the factual evidence readily available.

In Peru, by and large, gringo is NOT an offensive term and to claim so is to impress foreign cultural values to the Peruvian culture.

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