Rentista CE without pension

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craig
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Rentista CE without pension

Postby craig » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:53 pm

I just got my CE as a rentista today.

I am profoundly grateful to Ruud for this result.
1) He convinced me that a rentista residency was eligible for nationalization like other types of residential visas. Otherwise, I would not have been interested in pursuing it.
2) He also explained to me that one could get a rentista without having a pension. Otherwise, I would not have been able to do it. I will post the details by which I managed this later in this thread for the edification of anyone who is interested.

When I applied for the Cambio de Calidad Migratoria from tourist to rentista on 11/22/2012 I was told that the process would take 30 days. I figured, yeah, right, I'll be lucky if it is finished in three months. I've heard the horror stories. So I was astounded when it was approved on December 4, in less than 2 weeks.

It appears that there are changes at Migraciones. When I made my application 2 weeks ago the 3rd floor was only open from 8-1 for applications. Now, visa applications are only taken from 2-6 and from 8-1 they handle issuing carnets. And instead of letting you go up to the 3rd floor to queue up for the windows you have to wait on the first floor until you are conducted upstairs. This might streamline things eventually when they get it all worked but for now it seems to be slowing things down. It took over 5 hours from arrival to getting my carne, which is about twice what I heard it took before.

I was much less familiar with the process of getting the carnet than I was with the process of applying for the Cambio de Calidad Migratoria. It seem to be the following.

Pay 35 soles to BN. Fill out F007A. Wait on the first floor till you are sent to the 3rd floor. Wait on the 3rd floor till you are allowed in the work room. Queue for W15. Submit your payment chit, form and passport. Go to the second floor and wait until you name is called. Get your photo and fingerprints taken and provide a signature. Wait until your name is called to collect your CE and returned passport.

In addition to the carnet, my passport now has a stamp in it that says Inscrito como residente etc.

This is where I am confused and have some questions. I'd appreciate any comments to straighten out my confusion.

* I had understood from past posts that after you got your CE you were given 30 days to register in some foreigners registry somewhere. It appears that they already did this at Migraciones. Did I misunderstand before, have things changed, or what?

* Also, when I talked to information before submitting my application two weeks ago they told me that when it was approved I would have to pay a 200 dollar fee (for the Cambio de Calidad Migratoria?). No one ever asked for that fee. My guess is that this fee is for other types of residential visas but not for the rentista. Does anybody have any comment on this?

* Can I now enter Peru with only my Peruvian carnet and without having to have a passport? Or do they still insist on stamping your passports in and out even when you are a resident. I still have an entrance stamp (with no exit) in my passport.

I am glad that I can now stay in Peru permanently as a legal resident! And not having to renew the carnet or pay the tasa anual is a plus.

Craig


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Re: Rentista CE without pension

Postby jimbo » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:07 pm

Craig..did you not have to go to interpol and also show proof of pension income?? What documentation did you present with your application?
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Re: Rentista CE without pension

Postby craig » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:45 pm

Most people who have gotten a rentista visa seem to have done so on the basis of Social Security or some other sort of pension (usually governmental). However, obtaining a rentista visa may also be possible for those of us who do not have such a pension by which to qualify.

Strictly speaking, I probably am "entitled" to Social Security by which I could qualify as a rentista. However, I am not willing to participate in the Social Security system. The government can steal money from me but they cannot force me to live as a govenment dependent feeding off of money stolen from other people. At least not yet. Obama's announced priority for his second term is to nationalize all American's retirement savings so that may be coming soon.

Hopefully, by that time and the full implementation of Obamacare I will never have to return to the US and be subject to such outrages. My original motivation for moving to Peru was to escape being captured by the Medicare system and forced into a life of dependency in my old age. The advent of Obamacare has made this motivation even more urgent. Even leaving aside the moral offence, becoming a government dependent by participating in Social Security in order to obtain a rentista CE would be self-defeating since the only reason I want the CE is to be able to escape being part of the totalitarian American welfare state.

Fortunately, I have been able to get residence as a rentista in spite of not being a government dependent. The regulations on the Migraciones website give the requirements for Cambio de Calidad Migratoria to resident as a rentista.

... que el extranjero residirá en el Perú usufructuando pensión de jubilación de su gobierno o renta permanente de fuente nacional o extranjera.

This clearly indicates the possiblity of qualifying on the basis of a private "permanent income" (and that it doesn't even have to be from outside the country).

La renta ó pensión comprende a los ingresos de carácter permanente por concepto de jubilación, montepío ó invalidez, dividendos, regalías y similares (Numeral c) del Art.2º del Reglamento de la Ley de Rentista).

This indicates that the "permanent income" should be for retirement (or survivorship or disability) but can be from dividends, royalties, and the like. I take it that interest income or an annuity would be the sorts of things included.

My understanding of the use of the term "permanent income" in the regulations is that it is meant to exclude wages and/or operating business income. That is, income of the sort that is dependent on the beneficiary being able to continue working is what they won't accept.

This leaves open the question of how one would establish qualification without a pension. Ruud explained to me that this could be done by getting an appropriate letter from a cooperating banker attesting to the regular deposit of suitable monies into your bank account. Such a notarized letter can be then be legalized (nowadays, apostilled) to satisfy the Peruvian requirements. This is what I did.

As it happens, I had an IRA account with a small amount of money in it. I arranged to begin distributions of $1000 per month to satisfy the Peruvian requirements. An officer at my bank agreed to provide a notarized letter after a number of months of such payments certifying to my bank account and providing bank records verifying the receipt of the funds.

I also thought that I would try to get a letter from my IRA custodian to try to establish the source of the funds and that they were being paid for my retirement. They were quite willing to do this but they adamantly refused to have the letter notarized. Without the notarization, I could not get an apostille and so the letter would be worthless as evidence in Peru.

People who wish to qualify on the basis of another type of income, like royalties, dividends, interest, etc. would have to seek some other means to establish the nature of the source. The best and simplest way would be if your bank officer is willing to affirm the source of your income in his letter. My bank was not willing to do this so I sought other means. You could also apply without such corroboration and/or only assert it in your own sworn statement. This is quite likely possible, but more risky.

To work around this hitch (I didn't want to take any chances than I could avoid), I had the custodian write the letter to my bank (instead of Migraciones) and send it directly to the bank. My banker agreed to note the receipt of the custodian letter in his certification letter and include it with the other bank documents. In this way, I managed to get the custodian's letter into the package of documents included with the bank's notarized letter. This whole package was most impressively apostilled by the State of Georgia.

I had the whole apostilled package translated here in Lima. And I added my own Declaracion Jurada on top to satisfy Migraciones' other requirements and also to explain simply in Spanish what the package contained and established. I did not want to leave it entirely to the chance that the bureaucrats would be able to read the documents and figure out what they meant on their own. I also went to some pains in my Declaration Jurada to state clearly that my income was (1) for retirement and (2) derived from past work (as opposed to current contingent earnings). I think this is an important point to include to avoid a possible bureaucratic hold-up (based on Ruud's experience).

Thus, my application (Form F007A) for Cambo de Calidad Migratoria to Rentista was submitted accompanied by a Declaracion Jurada (below), a letter from my bank (below), copies of my last three bank statements, copies of the last three IRA checks, and a letter from my IRA custodian (below).

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Declaracion Jurada
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Bank Letter
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Custodian Letter
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Last edited by craig on Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:26 am, edited 13 times in total.
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craig
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Re: Rentista CE without pension

Postby craig » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:59 pm

jimbo wrote:Craig..did you not have to go to interpol and also show proof of pension income?? What documentation did you present with your application?

A pension is not needed. For proof of income and a description of documentation see above.

It turns out that the rentista application is exempt from many of the requirements for other types of residential visas. This includes some $235 in application fees. A rentista also does not have to do the Interpol thing: a sworn statement of not having a criminal background is sufficient.
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Re: Rentista CE without pension

Postby jimbo » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:05 pm

Glad to see that they have relaxed the requirement somewhat. I previously had my rentista visa but I had to leave the country for more than six months in one year and I therefore lost it. But..when I applied I had to go through the interpol process and leave the country to get stamped and come back in again to formalize my application.
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Re: Rentista CE without pension

Postby Retired in Lima » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:14 pm

Good to hear and congratulations!

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