Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Answers to your qestions about moving to, and living in, Peru,
kuranaga
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Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby kuranaga » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:38 pm

This is my experience here....

you can add more items to this list.

* the quality of buildings and apartments can only be classified as a joke. Take just the doors they have everywhere in the apartments. Cheapest hinges, badly fitted, do not close, not even slightest noise isolation

* same for the windows... they do not seal, you basically feel like living outside of the building

* quality of everything they build inside the apartments... water closet, tiles, mostly everything - uneven and badly cut - just "put it somehow".

* the furnitures are broken already when they come out of the factory. We had to buy a simple "estante", price 150S - for that money you can buy same thing from IKEA in Europe but the quality is not comparable. The one from Peru feels like garbage, badly cut, big tolerances, thin woods, etc etc

Probably you made same experiences. Ok maybe I am an european crab and I do not get the idea of living in Peru, but... what I will never understand is just working to do it badly. Everything you do badly, you do later two times. Sorry but this is out of the scope of my brain folks.

ok maybe we can exclude the food - it really tastes good. But, are you sure that behind the table they do not cheat you? Can I trust the quality of something in Peru, if mostly everything here is badly done? Maybe I have a logic error in my thinking :mrgreen:

ok ok... I am probably just an european dumbass and have not the proper understanding of the life here :roll:


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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby gringito » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:54 pm

Hahaha! Quality of LIFE is high in Peru BUT the quality of any item and in particular the quality of construction, houses, etc. etc. is a mess - you are right!!!

Never trust in anything you buy or order here - not even the Pisco!
Yes, that's Peru!
But you can still have a lot of fun here!!! :D

Animo!
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby richiecry » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:06 pm

Kuranaga...everything you write about in your email has to do with things...things you eat, things you buy, things you use. Is that really how you define life? I would never move to Peru if I defined Quality of Life in this way....
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby Manu » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:18 pm

Go where your heart takes you :mrgreen:
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby Ruud » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:24 am

I would say it in a different way.

The concept of quality simply is not existing.

So, complaining about bad, or the lack of, quality becomes difficult, because most people don't have a clue what you are talking about.
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby argidd » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:35 am

Ruud wrote:I would say it in a different way.

The concept of quality simply is not existing.

So, complaining about bad, or the lack of, quality becomes difficult, because most people don't have a clue what you are talking about.


Ruud, I don't think it's non-existent, I just think that most things are poor quality, and good quality things are found seldom and only when you really search for them. For example, I've had a lot of additional work done on my flat (basically furnishings) and it is top quality (although I didn't pay -what I believe- would be top price), of course I had a decorator make the contacts for me, and supervise the work.

Kuranga, it really will depend where you live. I have lived in Lima for 80% of my life, and I cannot relate to most of the things you say.
Regards,

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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby caliguy » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:27 am

if you are a frugal shopper, then, yes you will be getting the ill fitting furniture you described. if you only need something for a short amount of time, get the cheapest. if you want something to last, spend more for a better quality product. same with any repairs, if you just want to get by temporarily, put a cheap fix on it. :D
every place has it's own spirit. you just need to tune into it.
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby Philipc4u59 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:45 am

It is well documented on the Internet that the Chinese do one of two things with their money:

* Buy the cheapest item they can
* Buy the most expensive

Not an expert by any means; but possibly the Chinese "influence" has something to so with this.
China has a major influence in all of Peru; this is documented.
I too find it difficult to find quality household/construction items in the local stores.

Philip :roll: :roll:
PS - not to upset Chinese expats or my Chinese friends; just voicing what I have researched
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby argidd » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:23 am

Philipc4u59 wrote:It is well documented on the Internet that the Chinese do one of two things with their money:

* Buy the cheapest item they can
* Buy the most expensive

Not an expert by any means; but possibly the Chinese "influence" has something to so with this.
China has a major influence in all of Peru; this is documented.
I too find it difficult to find quality household/construction items in the local stores.

Philip :roll: :roll:
PS - not to upset Chinese expats or my Chinese friends; just voicing what I have researched



Ahhhh that's the thing! Don't buy, have it made (when possible)!
Regards,

Argidd
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby Ruud » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:06 am

Well you proof what I mean. I does not exist of the shelf. You have to supervise it, know what you want and how you want it. Otherwise there is no way you get decent quality.

On a positive note, if you know how to supervise a maestro, you will be able to get quality for not too much extra. It gets expensive when you trust your constructor/carpenter/salesmen especially on 'contracto', and have to redo it afterwards.


argidd wrote:
Ruud wrote:I would say it in a different way.

The concept of quality simply is not existing.

So, complaining about bad, or the lack of, quality becomes difficult, because most people don't have a clue what you are talking about.


Ruud, I don't think it's non-existent, I just think that most things are poor quality, and good quality things are found seldom and only when you really search for them. For example, I've had a lot of additional work done on my flat (basically furnishings) and it is top quality (although I didn't pay -what I believe- would be top price), of course I had a decorator make the contacts for me, and supervise the work.

Kuranga, it really will depend where you live. I have lived in Lima for 80% of my life, and I cannot relate to most of the things you say.
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby Philipc4u59 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:59 am

I hope you were not up at 2:06 am (when you posted); supervising your contractor?
I find it difficult enough to have them show up within 2 hours of an appointment & specifically on the DAY that they promised to do the work; they would NEVER SURVIVE in the US with this lack of professionalism.

Philip :roll:
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby panman » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:05 am

Philipc4u59 wrote:I hope you were not up at 2:06 am (when you posted); supervising your contractor?
I find it difficult enough to have them show up within 2 hours of an appointment & specifically on the DAY that they promised to do the work; they would NEVER SURVIVE in the US with this lack of professionalism.

Philip :roll:

Philip but they do survive, BECAUSE WE'RE IN PERU and "that's the way it is here" Neither you or anyone else on this forum is going to change that, so you're going to have to get used to it.
What you need to do, is the same as I started doing years ago when this was getting me down.
Tell who ever it may be, how valuable your time is and if they can't make the appointment on time that you expect a phone call and a valid excuse. Tell them If they don't do this, and they're going to be more than 15 minutes late not to even bother ringing the door bell as you won't be in.
If they're late, make a point of not being in. Take the dog for a walk in the park, relax and chuckle to yourself at the fact they might be riging your door bell at that very moment and your not there to answer it, their time is now being wasted.
It won't change things, that's just not going to happen in your or my life time, but it puts you in control of the situation.
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby chi chi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:25 am

caliguy wrote:if you are a frugal shopper, then, yes you will be getting the ill fitting furniture you described. if you only need something for a short amount of time, get the cheapest. if you want something to last, spend more for a better quality product. same with any repairs, if you just want to get by temporarily, put a cheap fix on it. :D


Quality of life is as low as you pay for. Just like anywhere else in the world, if you want to better quality products then you have to pay more.

If you want to spend the least amount of money then you will have to move into the ''hood''. Like anywhere else.
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby Philipc4u59 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:13 pm

I tried another TACTIC & my Peruvian wife was so upset...
After three (3) appointments to install our drapes; I told her when they were finally finished I would tell them (or she would in Spanish) to come back in three (3) days & I will have their money.

If it had been just me; I would have had someone there to translate & gone thru with my plan.
Why should I be wasting my time with such unprofessional people; MY TIME IS VALUABLE - even if I am just walking the dog in the park.

I do like your comments,
Philip :roll:
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby SmartKitty » Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:28 pm

Philipc4u59 wrote:I tried another TACTIC & my Peruvian wife was so upset...
After three (3) appointments to install our drapes; I told her when they were finally finished I would tell them (or she would in Spanish) to come back in three (3) days & I will have their money.

If it had been just me; I would have had someone there to translate & gone thru with my plan.
Why should I be wasting my time with such unprofessional people; MY TIME IS VALUABLE - even if I am just walking the dog in the park.

I do like your comments,
Philip :roll:

Why your Peruvian wife was upset with you? Any Peruvian, including your wife, knows this way. You wanted to apply the perfect Peruvian formula, they don't understand reasoning or nice attitude, they learn by action - reaction and it works well.

I remember asking my neighbors several times (front building appt., they had loud music parties overnight 3-4 times a week), please, lower your music after midnight during the week days, we need our sleep in working days. It didn't work until one day, it was Tuesday night, they were dancing up to 5 am, loud music, open windows, I see they say goodby to their guests and make their beds, ready to sleep now ... I didn't go to work that day, I took my best speakers, put them on my windows directed toward them and played the loudest music possible, I was playing Bach a couple of hours, I saw them uncomfortable, looking out of the window but they didn't say me a word ... how could they, I was begging them to lower their music so many times ... after that day, during the week, we NEVER had loud music, weekends it's OK, I don't mind weekends.

That day I learned my own lesson about Peruvian action - reaction.
My name is Fortunata Carhuapoma, pies de plomo. I'm a modest serrano girl in polleras and alpargatas.
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby chi chi » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:24 am

SmartKitty wrote:I remember asking my neighbors several times (front building appt., they had loud music parties overnight 3-4 times a week), please, lower your music after midnight during the week days, we need our sleep in working days. It didn't work until one day, it was Tuesday night, they were dancing up to 5 am, loud music, open windows, I see they say goodby to their guests and make their beds, ready to sleep now ... I didn't go to work that day, I took my best speakers, put them on my windows directed toward them and played the loudest music possible, I was playing Bach a couple of hours, I saw them uncomfortable, looking out of the window but they didn't say me a word ... how could they, I was begging them to lower their music so many times ... after that day, during the week, we NEVER had loud music, weekends it's OK, I don't mind weekends.


When I lived in creepy Lima, I had a neighboor like that too. He liked to listen to classic music. I had much bigger speakers so when he played classic music... I started playing GANGSTA RAP. I played all my favourite songs from Dr. Dre, Tupac, Notorious B.I.G., Snoop Dogg, Eminem,...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6S7dAsIzIU

It was nice too. It gave Lima an LA 'vibe'. It was fun, listening to gangsta rap, whilst smoking pot and looking from my balcony at fumones passing by and pandilleros spraying graffiti on the walls on Avenida Libertad in San Miguel. Life in ''the hood'' is COOL.
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby SmartKitty » Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:07 am

chi chi wrote:
SmartKitty wrote:I remember asking my neighbors several times (front building appt., they had loud music parties overnight 3-4 times a week), please, lower your music after midnight during the week days, we need our sleep in working days. It didn't work until one day, it was Tuesday night, they were dancing up to 5 am, loud music, open windows, I see they say goodby to their guests and make their beds, ready to sleep now ... I didn't go to work that day, I took my best speakers, put them on my windows directed toward them and played the loudest music possible, I was playing Bach a couple of hours, I saw them uncomfortable, looking out of the window but they didn't say me a word ... how could they, I was begging them to lower their music so many times ... after that day, during the week, we NEVER had loud music, weekends it's OK, I don't mind weekends.


When I lived in creepy Lima, I had a neighboor like that too. He liked to listen to classic music. I had much bigger speakers so when he played classic music... I started playing GANGSTA RAP. I played all my favourite songs from Dr. Dre, Tupac, Notorious B.I.G., Snoop Dogg, Eminem,...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6S7dAsIzIU

It was nice too. It gave Lima an LA 'vibe'. It was fun, listening to gangsta rap, whilst smoking pot and looking from my balcony at fumones passing by and pandilleros spraying graffiti on the walls on Avenida Libertad in San Miguel. Life in ''the hood'' is COOL.

It looks like Chichi didn't understand what I'm talking about.
Oh, well, Chichi and her/his ideas, she/he is living in his/her world. :wink:
My name is Fortunata Carhuapoma, pies de plomo. I'm a modest serrano girl in polleras and alpargatas.
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby Philipc4u59 » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:25 am

That's why you are a SMART KITTY!!!

Philip :roll:
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby inscop » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:18 am

I think Peru is all about expectations. If you look for negative stuff, you will find negative stuff. I stayed in Pimentel for a couple of months, and even though I am an old fat dude, and our apartment was on the fourth floor of a no-elevator building, it was what it was. No use complaining. If I didn't like it, I always had the option to pack my trash and go elsewhere.

What I DID expect in Peru was for my meals to be fresh and delicious. The ceviche had to be perfect and my picarones had to be hot, crispy and sweet. If the beer is not cold, don't bring it to me.

I never expected the buscama to run a perfect schedule, and all I had to do when I wanted to go to town was listen for the cry of the combi conductor, "CHICLAYO, MODELO!" If I didn't like it, I could take an airplane or a taxi, depending on destination. If I DID take the combi, I did not always expect the guy on the seat next to me to be a paragon of hygiene. It is what it is.

There is a good reason you folks live in El Peru. Those reasons are as varied as the number of members in this forum. Look for the positive things in your daily lives and you will find them.

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Bloom were you are planted. Or you can just be a whiner if that is what you want out of life.
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby ironchefchris » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:48 pm

inscop wrote:I think Peru is all about expectations. If you look for negative stuff, you will find negative stuff. I stayed in Pimentel for a couple of months, and even though I am an old fat dude, and our apartment was on the fourth floor of a no-elevator building, it was what it was. No use complaining. If I didn't like it, I always had the option to pack my trash and go elsewhere.

What I DID expect in Peru was for my meals to be fresh and delicious. The ceviche had to be perfect and my picarones had to be hot, crispy and sweet. If the beer is not cold, don't bring it to me.

I never expected the buscama to run a perfect schedule, and all I had to do when I wanted to go to town was listen for the cry of the combi conductor, "CHICLAYO, MODELO!" If I didn't like it, I could take an airplane or a taxi, depending on destination. If I DID take the combi, I did not always expect the guy on the seat next to me to be a paragon of hygiene. It is what it is.

There is a good reason you folks live in El Peru. Those reasons are as varied as the number of members in this forum. Look for the positive things in your daily lives and you will find them.

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Bloom were you are planted. Or you can just be a whiner if that is what you want out of life.


What inscop said.
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby gringito » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:46 pm

How you FEEL in an imperfect world depends on your own positive or negative thoughts.
Life is ok in Peru. However, if you are looking for a "perfect" material world, you will NOT find it here.
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby Philipc4u59 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:36 am

When life gives you lemons - MAKE LEMONAIDE (I very much like).
Frugos Valle (a Coke company) has a new product to go with their orange juice - LIMONADA (1.2 ml bottle).
Currently it is on OFERTA at Plaza Vea, Metro & Tottus; sometimes in combo packs.

Enjoy the simple pleasures in life; where ever you are,

Philip :roll:
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby Sergio Bernales » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:28 pm

Jeremyth wrote: My wives mom was always a blessing to us.


Your wives' mom? Are you a Mormon? How many wives have you got? Are they all sisters?
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby Philipc4u59 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:45 pm

A missplaced " ' " Sergio; DON'T BE JEALOUS!!!

Philip :roll:
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby Sergio Bernales » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:18 pm

Philipc4u59 wrote:A missplaced " ' " Sergio; DON'T BE JEALOUS!!!

Philip :roll:


I suppose I was being pedantic, but not about the apostrophes. It's spelt with an F, Philip. Wife singular, wives plural. Like wolf and wolves. I wouldn't have mentioned the error were it not for the fact Jeremy is offering courses in teaching English. After all if Jeremy were offering accounting courses and had arithmetic errors in his post, surely we should point it out to him or his potential students. By the way "to wive" means to get married.
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby 28 de julio » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:30 pm

Jeremyth wrote:Yes I remember the first time I went to Peru to meet my future wife. It was a completely different world to me. Or in Spanish dos mundos. It was a major culture shock for me. There is graffiti everywhere. The transportation system was completely different than than I have seen in California. Only a 1 percent of the population take the bus here. Hay mucho buses y mucho taxis. There are always positives and negatives in life. My wives mom was always a blessing to us. We could always expect awesome Peruvian food from her. I have made so many great friends through different Churches in Peru. But I think the best way to solve these problems is more education. Check out my blog at http://www.eslteacherintheusa.blogspot.com for some information about me, and Im teaching a course on how to teach ESL conversation classes this month. Email me if would be interested for this Saturday. I look forward to meeting you. Jeremy


I agree with the other poster. Jeremy, if you´re going to go off topic and advertise your English classes, I think you should at least correct your spelling errors in English and Spanish - hay mucho buses, wives, Im, etc. I presume your wife did the Spanish translation on your webpage, but there are numerous errors there, too. Tendra should be tendrá, for example. Simple mistakes like that don´t inspire confidence.
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby Hitoruna » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:15 pm

Oh mine, where I live I have seen so many "native" speakers with horrible mistakes in their english that it does not surprise me anymore. :roll: And they even teach english here! lol
On the other hand I am not picky about "acentos". they are bothersome to type
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby Jeremyth » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:10 pm

Good to meet you good brother. Conflict is not always bad. Conflict helps people to learn and understand. The correct word is wife's. She always makes delicious food. But who is the English teacher here with the BA degree? lol Good to meet you guys Sergio, 28 de julio, and Hitoruna. I already met Philip in Peru. So where are you guys from, and do you guys teach English? Remember there is always a purpose for everything. The Bible says that "all things work together for the good for those who love God and are called according to his purpose" Romans 8:28. So even though there may be problems every where in Peru, all things work for good for those who love God. God Bless ttul check out my blog at www.eslteacherintheusa.blogspot.com
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby Philipc4u59 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:30 am

Where is SPELL CHECK, when you need it???

Philip :roll:

PS - I also have trouble with spelling & am so busy with other things (that provide me income); that I sometimes don't compose posts - CORRECTLY (as per the English language). PLEASE FORGIVE ME!
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby johnnyekstrom » Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:16 pm

I measure MY quality of life like this:
1) Quality of food and water
2) Quality of weather
3) Opportunity to start your own business

By my criteria Peru ranks pretty high.
If you want an awsome house, buy land, import the materials and build it yourself!
We are in 21st century: you can even import a prebuilt modular house in parts. Just search google.
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby ironchefchris » Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:21 pm

Good criteria, Johnnyekstrom. Do you have experience with building your own home and importing the materials? If so, how expensive was the shipping? In general, do you find the building materials offered here in Peru to be substandard, or were you just looking to build with specific materials?
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby johnnyekstrom » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:17 am

ironchefchris wrote:Good criteria, Johnnyekstrom. Do you have experience with building your own home and importing the materials? If so, how expensive was the shipping? In general, do you find the building materials offered here in Peru to be substandard, or were you just looking to build with specific materials?

No unfortunately I don't have the experience, but that's what I would do, instead of complaining of how bad the houses are in Peru.
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby jimuazu » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:32 am

One difference here is that labour is cheap, and materials relatively expensive. So buying a cheap item and paying to have it patched up several times when it fails is cheaper than buying a quality item -- for most of the population at least. Vehicles for example, how they keep some of them running, I don't know. What is uneconomical to repair in Europe would run economically another 20 years in Peru.

However, when price is the major selection pressure on what's on sale in the market, it's a race to the bottom. In addition, the bottom (minimum standard accepted by the population) is much lower in Peru than it is in Europe. Plus there is no trading standards (that I've noticed), and people aren't accustomed to taking stuff back and demanding a refund when things break after a month. This is a purer capitalism to what we're used to -- with less socialised costs such as active enforcement or promotion of trading laws (if they even exist). Welcome to Peru!
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby gringito » Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:24 pm

@ironchefchris, johnnyekstrom:
It does not make sense at all to import construction material to Peru, except you have too much money and a distinct quirk.
You will find sufficient housebuilding material here in Peru - including prefabricados.
If you are in Rome, do as the Romans do: build with local materials!
To obtain quality, supervise your obreros and contractors (they will not like it...but tough luck).
Clime in Peru is moderate and "forgiving". You do not need high tech construction material and accessories as in the northern hemisphere.

@jimuazu:
No, according to my personal experience, materials are NOT relatively expensive.
To which material do you refer?
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby jimuazu » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:27 pm

gringito wrote:No, according to my personal experience, materials are NOT relatively expensive.
To which material do you refer?


I'm talking about the balance between work-costs and material-costs and available cash that people have. Materials may be cheaper here, but people earn a whole lot less as well to buy them with. I think material costs are significant to them. Are the materials more expensive to them relative to their income than materials in Europe might be to a European? -- I would have to get some prices and do some calculations to be sure. (I admit I haven't done these calculations.)
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DC_20833

Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby DC_20833 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:47 am

I have lived here now for 6.5 years and it has been interesting to say the least. Things I don't like about Lima?
First would be the traffic. SOLUTION - I don't travel during peak travel times and I don't own a car. Taxis work fine for me and Remise when I want a little more comfort. Second item is Peruvians do have a problem telling the truth. SOLUTION - Just realize it's a problem and take appropriate steps in business transactions to protect yourself. Third item would be the lack of decent consumer items. Now this is getting better as I am learning how to find stuff through friends but the clothing here is horrible and expensive. SOLUTION - I live for my twice yearly trips to the states to go buy clothes.

Now to things I like about Peru first would be cuisine it offers a great variety excellent use of spices. The Medical Care here is incredible and very reasonable. I am lucky I have very good insurance and what insurance doesn't pay I have the resources to pay. So I have only seen the private sector here. I like the fact I go see a doctor and she or she spends a good amount of time with you. Every time I have gone the issue has had a great outcome. My 78 year old mother just completed a one week stay at San Felipe and the facility is excellent especially since they nearly tripled it's size a year ago. Also a considerable amount of equipment has been bought. However what makes San Felipe so nice are the people who work there they truly take pride in their work. I thought it was so sweet to see the staff all hug my Mom when she left.

SECOND - I like the coast in Peru and the fact within an hour I can be sitting on a nice beach. I think the only place you can find that in the US is Los Los Angeles. The cost of living there is outrageous and California never did much for me. THIRD - If you don't like it you can have it made. I needed a new couch and couldn't find exactly what I wanted so I went on the internet found a picture and sat down with the owner of a furniture shop and made my alterations to the picture and boom 3 weeks later my beautiful couch arrived and the leather was fantastic. You can get custom made furniture in the states but it will cost you a arm and a leg.

Life is what you make it and is Lima or Peru perfect -- HELL NO. But what place is? Maybe heaven.
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby ironchefchris » Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:50 am

gringito wrote:@ironchefchris, johnnyekstrom:
It does not make sense at all to import construction material to Peru, except you have too much money and a distinct quirk.
You will find sufficient housebuilding material here in Peru - including prefabricados.
If you are in Rome, do as the Romans do: build with local materials!
To obtain quality, supervise your obreros and contractors (they will not like it...but tough luck).
Clime in Peru is moderate and "forgiving". You do not need high tech construction material and accessories as in the northern hemisphere.

@jimuazu:
No, according to my personal experience, materials are NOT relatively expensive.
To which material do you refer?


That's what I thought. I have no experience in building, but I've seen plenty of concrete structures and palapa roofs in my day. A bag of concrete doesn't cost that much. If the locals can afford it than I should be able to afford it. I asked about shipping materials because it would seem exorbitantly expensive to do so and was curious if Johnnyekstrom had experience in this.

On a side note. How does one supervise obreros and contractors when one knows very little about actual construction? Not knowing what questions to ask or what specifically to look or watch out for, should I just be present, keep quiet, a watchful eye, and let them assume I know about construction?
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby gringito » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:49 pm

jimuazu wrote:I would have to get some prices and do some calculations to be sure. (I admit I haven't done these calculations.)

1 bag of cement: 17,60 to 18,60 Soles
1000 bricks King Kong 18 huecos: approx. 640 Soles.

DC_20833 wrote:... but the clothing here is horrible and expensive. SOLUTION - I live for my twice yearly trips to the states to go buy clothes.

Hmh…. Peru is one of the worlds biggest textile manufacturers.
Have you shopped in Gamarra? (Take a day off to give it a try)
Ask for export quality clothes - but even normal clothes are quite ok here in PE.

ironchefchris wrote:How does one supervise obreros and contractors when one knows very little about actual construction? Not knowing what questions to ask or what specifically to look or watch out for, should I just be present, keep quiet, a watchful eye, and let them assume I know about construction?


Ok..this is a certain problem…Naturally, you can hire an architect who supervises the contractors. Architects are quite affordable here in Peru – if you do not choose one from San Isidro ;-) Naturally, there is a similar problem with arquitects: you have to find a reliable one.
When you intend to build a house, you WILL learn a lot about construction and you WILL usually learn faster than any Peruvian obrero since you are surely used to study and to read.
For example, if you know that the standard mixture for concrete here in Peru should be 1: 4, i.e.
1 part cement (cement)
2 parts coarse sand (arena gruesa)
2 parts gravel (piedra chancada)
you already know what the obreros SHOULD do.
Moreover, I feel that if you have a certain technical understanding and common sense it will also be much easier.

Suerte!

PS:
How is your Spanish?
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby ironchefchris » Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:47 pm

Thanks for the info, gringito. I've always thought of architects as the people who simply design and draw up the plans. Apparently here in Peru they also function as pre-purchase building inspectors and construction supervisors. I have no firm plans, but we're looking into buying (and possibly slightly renovating) and renting out a recently constructed house in the Máncora area. I love to research and thinking of buying an existing house makes me wonder about the option of buying a piece of land and building ourselves. Guessing if the house for sale is good enough it is probably the better option, saving myself from hassles, work, and time. Not sure if there is much to be saved by building everything from scratch - hence the research.

My Spanish is passable, but not the greatest. I feel like I'm learning and understanding more everyday as it becomes more natural to me. Having a Peruvian wife helps. Have to ask. What is the source of your avatar? Feel like I've seen that guy in a movie. Thanks again for spreading your knowledge.
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby FROADS » Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:08 pm

Quality of life is horribly low for the person who is mentally affected by the hearsay of things. Is the quality of life better for fat americans who swig liters of soda by the end of the week rather than a fit peruvian or vice versa?

I personally think that people can adapt to things foreign to them. I know I did. Yes, the infrastructure is low but on the bright side of things the economy is steadily growing which indicates a positive outlook. It's as simple as that; a person foreign to the culture has to find a way to tolerate the customs, bad traffic, and that which makes you susceptible to the term of "low quality".
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby gringito » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:58 pm

@irinchefchris:
Buying a house seems to be a good option. At least I thought so. ..Then I found all these faults in construction and the flub. You cannot imagine how time consuming renovation can be...

I asked for your Spanish because
there is a very interesting source about construction rules here in Peru. It is in Spanish and it is called "Reglamiento Nacional de Edificacion".
This is the download link:

http://www.mintra.gob.pe/contenidos/arc ... 5.2006.pdf

The document has approx. 400 pages. Therefore, it will take some time to load the page.

PS:
My avatar shows Klaus Kinski in the movie "Aguirre, the Wrath of God".
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aguirre,_the_Wrath_of_God
As far as I remember this movie was filmed in Peru, but I am not 100% sure.
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby jimuazu » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:35 am

@gringito: Thanks for the link to notes about construction. I've been carefully observing construction techniques all around Peru, and attended a number of building projects by family members -- usually "ayni" style (i.e. the whole village helps out and then are fed by the host), although technology like mixers and concrete bucket winches makes all this extra help less necessary now.

@ironchefchris: Basics of concrete and metal rods are that concrete handles compression, and the rods handle tension. So for a beam of two metal rods encased in concrete, the lower rod takes the tension if you stand in the middle of it, and the upper rod takes the tension if it forms an overhang and you stand on the end of it. Probably I am missing all the technical terminology. Most flat roofs/floors can be understood as a combination of beams and stuff stuck to them (e.g. the big hollow 8-hole bricks that fill the gaps between the mini-beams and offer some support to the floor above).

I am still surprised by a few of the overhangs I see constructed, where the beams seem all the wrong way to me, i.e. parallel to the wall instead of sticking out from it. That they stay up at all indicates there is quite a lot of tolerance for errors.

We will be constructing sometime this year, and I will have a lot of questions to ask our builders as they get under way.
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby johnnyekstrom » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:15 pm

I would not ship cement, bricks or metal from abroad, that would be nonsense of course. I was referring more to finishing materials, like windows frames, security doors, floor tiles, and even pipes.
I would also look in the yellow pages first, possibly there are companies which already import those.
You could also bring a master obrero from abroad to supervise the construction for you, if you cannot find any competent in Peru.
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby gringito » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:13 pm

johnnyekstrom wrote:I would not ship cement, bricks or metal from abroad, that would be nonsense of course. I was referring more to finishing materials, like windows frames, security doors, floor tiles, and even pipes.
I would also look in the yellow pages first, possibly there are companies which already import those.
You could also bring a master obrero from abroad to supervise the construction for you, if you cannot find any competent in Peru.

You will even find these finishing materials here in Peru.
The funny thing is that one "never" finds things in the yellow pages of Lima (though its volume is quite impressive) but rather by personal recommendation.

For western style windows I recommend, for example, Corp. Miyasato, here in Lima (showroom in La Victoria).
http://www.miyasato.com.pe/
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby kpw » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:43 pm

If you have money quality of life is good, with no money it is very bad.

A few weeks ago I drove late on a Friday afternoon to Chosica. Of course I stayed at a beautiful huge house, garden, pool, sunny, with cheap service to take care of it. But the drive there is the peruvian reality and conditions how the majority of the population lives.

Traffic (2 hr drive for 40km), pollution, terrible living conditions, noise, etc... the only thing is that most of those people just don't know it can be better, accept the way it is, do not judge or want better.
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Re: Quality of life in Peru is horribly low

Postby jimuazu » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:06 pm

kpw wrote:If you have money quality of life is good, with no money it is very bad. A few weeks ago I drove late on a Friday afternoon to Chosica. Of course I stayed at a beautiful huge house, garden, pool, sunny, with cheap service to take care of it. But the drive there is the peruvian reality and conditions how the majority of the population lives. Traffic (2 hr drive for 40km), pollution, terrible living conditions, noise, etc... the only thing is that most of those people just don't know it can be better, accept the way it is, do not judge or want better.


I think your view is slightly unbalanced. If they are in Lima they are trying to make a better life. Smog and education or opportunities might be better than fresh country air to them. To them the quality of life is in other aspects than the ones you are looking at.

As to not wanting better -- Peruvians are incredible for their persistence in looking for and working for something better (in their terms), whether risking their lives crossing deserts to the US or working 16 hour days in the Europe. My wife (a Peruvian) knew someone who crossed to the US and whose child died on the way and whose body had to be left behind in the desert, and that was accepted and didn't stop anyone else trying. Minor physical inconvenience such as carrying water or washing clothes by hand is not a major obstacle to these people.

So the lack of quality of life is in your misunderstanding of their approach to life. To me quality of life is good nutrition, fresh air, nice view, etc ... to my wife: community, family, working for a positive future, a clean house, food on the table. To most of her family, the walls could be unadorned adobe or brick and it would make no difference to their perceived quality of life, their family reunions, the pleasure of having children around in the house, their dances, their traditional foods. Their physical situation may not be ideal but persistence overcomes most difficulties, even if they have to be persistent on a daily basis. I don't think they even think of most of these things as difficulties. There is a kind of peace in acceptance and getting on with it.
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