No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

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windsportinperu
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No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby windsportinperu » Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:35 pm

Some good news for peruvians could be possible in the future.

Spain will propose to the Schengen community that Peruvians will not have to get the tourist visa anymore..

According to the news, the proposal will be presented soon...

http://elcomercio.pe/actualidad/1616565/noticia-eliminacion-visado-peruanos-deberia-aprobarse-sin-problemas-aseguro-vicecanciller?ft=grid


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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby argidd » Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:30 pm

If approved, I think it will take at least a year for the ruling to "entrar en vigencia".
With the Mexico no-visa requirement, it took like 9 months...

Speaking of, what do you think the other Schengen countries will vote in/recommend?
I think we still live in a society that believes prosperity comes from living abroad, and so still looking to migrate.


I wonder if they do in-depth demographic studies, like amount of illegal immigrants, legal immigrants, naturalized immigrants, offenders, etc. in order to determine. :?:
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby TShadow » Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:54 pm

I also don't think this will be an easy affair. Certainly as with the Visa for Argentinians they will try to build a safety measure into it. I don't see it that first class European countries will open their doors freely for third class countries. For that matter I agree with @argidd.

Furthermore actually in Italy the police is arresting a lot of Peruvians and other people from SA due to criminal behavior. Not exactly the best introduction to the Spanish proposal.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby windsportinperu » Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:59 pm

argidd wrote: Speaking of, what do you think the other Schengen countries will vote in/recommend?
I think we still live in a society that believes prosperity comes from living abroad, and so still looking to migrate.
I wonder if they do in-depth demographic studies, like amount of illegal immigrants, legal immigrants, naturalized immigrants, offenders, etc. in order to determine. :?:


My guessing is that the FTA with UE will be a good point in favour when considering to let peruvians enter as tourist in this european community.

You are right, the collective mindset still think that living abroad is for getting a better lifestyle, but I have seen a decrease in the percentage of people thinking that way. In my generation, most young people were only thinking of leaving the country as soon as possible. Now young people think of making business, study and make a future here.

I hope that peruvian offenders of the law, will be low in those countries. I really don't know if europeans make some differences with a peruvian, or chilean or ecuatorian, etc.. Probably they see us as a whole, so when a venezuelan makes something wrong, probably a peruvian is also considered as the "guilty" and viceversa. It is like most peruvians when see "gringos" they think they all are "americans"
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby TShadow » Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:20 pm

Well, I lived in Italy, they do make a difference between the various people from SA. Their criminal rate there is quite high. Peruvian men are mostly known for their violent behavior against women and their heavy drinking. Peruvian women for robbery. Colombians for prostitution and drug dealing, People from Venezuela for pocket picking and violent assaults. People from Argentina and Chile are generally more respected. From Bolivia we have mostly natives who are selling typically stuff from their country.

It's not like with Chinese people, where to Europeans all look the same. But mostly you are right, when something bad happens, it is generally the fault of all people from SA.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby argidd » Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:08 pm

I think between the bad rep both Colombians and Peruvians have; and the numbers in delinquent acts/crimes, etc. this will be difficult to obtain.

I know a lot of these people have no shame. My grandparents were in Italy years ago, and my grandmother loudly told my grandfather to be careful, in Spanish. A woman turned around and started speaking to them about the crime rate in Rome and how nice it was to meet fellow Peruvians, blahblah. When my grandmother asked if she was an immigrant, she said she was, and that she was a pocket thief. My grandmother wanted to disappear out of embarrassment and knowing that she was talking to a thief!
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby ariel » Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:43 pm

I've had my share of Ocean's 11 experience which confirms TShadow's comment about some Peruvian women in Europe, 'though I wasn't the victim. Back in 2009 I was in Barcelona with my wife when we saw a couple of Peruvian women (betrayed by their accent) on the train carrying empty plastic bags and looking around for unsuspecting victims. My wife promptly warned me and kept a close eye on them from a short distance on a half empty coach. Next thing we knew, the plastic bags got a little heavier while they stepped out on the next station. We didn't even realize who the poor victim/s was/were and were reluctant to meddle in their highly profitable enterprise for fear of getting whacked by their possible lookouts. Yeah, call it sleight of hand - almost awesome to witness and disgusting at the same time.

So that kind of notoriety and the drug image (thanks to that recent UN report) would really put a monkey wrench on this Schengen visa affair.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby chi chi » Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:58 am

TShadow wrote:I don't see it that first class European countries will open their doors freely for third class countries.


There aren't too many 'first class' European countries left. Greece, UK, Ireland, Belgium, Spain, Italy, Romania, Bulgaria, Slovakia, Croatia are hoovering far lower than even 3rd class.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby windsportinperu » Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:32 am

Refering countries as 1º , 2º , 3º classes are quite subjective and somehow contemptuous..

It is respectful and appropriate to refer as "developed" and "developing" countries..
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby TShadow » Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:20 pm

Refering countries as 1º , 2º , 3º classes are quite subjective and somehow contemptuous..


Could agree with this term. Only it's commonly used in Europe and I translated it in my mind as such.

To speak about respect, there are very few countries I would and could use this term, wouldn't even say that Italy, Spain ... and many more countries do have a very civilized behavior, nor does Peru and many other SA have.

@chi chi if we must use the term class for a country, yes then certainly Italy and Spain and many more European member countries should be classified as 4th class countries, even if they are far more developed than Peru and Colombia.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby victmanu » Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:59 pm

TShadow wrote:Well, I lived in Italy, they do make a difference between the various people from SA. Their criminal rate there is quite high. Peruvian men are mostly known for their violent behavior against women and their heavy drinking. Peruvian women for robbery. Colombians for prostitution and drug dealing, People from Venezuela for pocket picking and violent assaults. People from Argentina and Chile are generally more respected. From Bolivia we have mostly natives who are selling typically stuff from their country.

It's not like with Chinese people, where to Europeans all look the same. But mostly you are right, when something bad happens, it is generally the fault of all people from SA.


Chileans are also known un Europe as thieves. There are some signs outside many stores in Sweden saying If You see a chilean stealing let it be it is his culture.
In Spain there are groups of chileans robbing Banks and in London there are chileans who pick pocket in the subway, I also met a bunch of chileans who were stealing clothes from the corean warehouses and stores in San pedro , Los Angeles.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby kpw » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:34 pm

About 20-25 years ago, before the EU, Peruvians could travel within most of Europe without a visa. Question is, why did they lose that status? I think it had to do with drug smuggling and migration.

As for business, we are dealing with a different visa. I think Ollanta made a mistake here as well..
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby TShadow » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:41 pm

Well recently the spanish police arrested 34 of people from SA including Peruvians for drug smuggling.

Furthermore the lapsus Humala made was quite serious for a President. The European commission immediately denied any change in the current visa status as a reply to his unfortunate declaration.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby curlyguy18 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:47 pm

And how about foreigners coming here and committing crimes? Mainly people trying to smuggle cocaine out of the country. Two Brits have been arrested for that very same reason.

We fail to look at the the other side of the coin sometimes. It is true that many Peruvians and South Americans go to Europe and remain there illegally and do unlawful things, but the same thing happens here. Europeans/Americans caught with drugs or living here on tourist visas and working as teachers, etc.

Personally, I think it's unfair that Europeans/Americans can just come here and do whatever they want as if they own the country. We have to jump through so many hoops and be looked at suspiciously simply because we're South Americans.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby panman » Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:10 pm

curlyguy18 wrote:And how about foreigners coming here and committing crimes? Mainly people trying to smuggle cocaine out of the country. Two Brits have been arrested for that very same reason.

We fail to look at the the other side of the coin sometimes. It is true that many Peruvians and South Americans go to Europe and remain there illegally and do unlawful things, but the same thing happens here. Europeans/Americans caught with drugs or living here on tourist visas and working as teachers, etc.

Personally, I think it's unfair that Europeans/Americans can just come here and do whatever they want as if they own the country. We have to jump through so many hoops and be looked at suspiciously simply because we're South Americans.

I agree 110% but have to say it's up to you Peruvians to stand up and do something about this ridiculous situation.
The Peruvian system is laughable and completely open to abuse, as this site well proves and promotes. It isn't just from Americans and Europeans teaching English either, there's a new breed of people, I find particularly disturbing, selling Kebabs on the streets of Lima.
Let's take a look at the visa situation for instance. If Peru wants to promote tourism, as it should, then why not just let it be known that on arrival in the country, if approved, a person will be given a 30 day visa. This is quite sufficient for most genuine tourists to visit Machu Picchu, the Nazca lines and Lake Titicaca. If a person needs more time for whatever reason, then they should have to apply in advance, stating the purpose of their visit and pay a suitable administration fee. This would have no effect on the numbers of genuine "tourists" visiting Peru, but might keep out some of those who are getting the country a bad name in the international press.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby TShadow » Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:04 pm

I agree with panman. As I lived in Italy I saw that many foreigners are coming there to commit crimes or to behave in bad manners. They do it because they can as the Italian system is also very laughable and open to abuse. Furthermore scandal driven and corrupt governments as also Peru has, are always an open invitation for such people. Moreover the Peruvian police is far from being efficient but also very corrupt.

Peru also seems to work against the promotion of tourism with their absolute lack of security measures. There is not a day when tourists are getting assaulted. Also it is well known that Peru regretfully is one of the most important suppliers of cocaine which seems also to attract a certain branch of people.

When we look at the criminal rate of foreigners in Peru, the numbers are not so important as actually in Lima there are ca. 1000 foreigners in prison, mostly people from other SA countries. People who are trying to smuggle cocaine outside Peru are not buying it on the market. There are always Peruvians involved hiring this burriers promising good money to this stupid people. The big deliveries do certainly not happen thru the International airport. It is also well known that big drug dealers from Colombia and Mexico are operating in Peru. It's a well documented fact. Foreign visitors doing 'whatever' they want in Peru are a very small minority.

Yes I saw this people selling Kebabs on the streets of Lima. In Italy this people have become a big problem, but if they are allowed to do so they will become more and more. Regretfully it seems that the government is more busy to hide their internal affairs.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby chi chi » Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:25 am

panman wrote:
curlyguy18 wrote:. It isn't just from Americans and Europeans teaching English either, there's a new breed of people, I find particularly disturbing, selling Kebabs on the streets of Lima.


What's wrong with selling kebabs on the street? Those people are making a living in a honest way. Why do you find it disturbing? Because they make much more money than you?

Many of them are from Pakistan. I personally know one of them. They sell between 50 and 100 kebabs a day and charge depending of the size between 5 and 8 soles. Half of it is profit. It's a very succesfull business. They make good money.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby panman » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:02 am

chi chi wrote:
panman wrote:
curlyguy18 wrote:. It isn't just from Americans and Europeans teaching English either, there's a new breed of people, I find particularly disturbing, selling Kebabs on the streets of Lima.


What's wrong with selling kebabs on the street? Those people are making a living in a honest way. Why do you find it disturbing? Because they make much more money than you?

Many of them are from Pakistan. I personally know one of them. They sell between 50 and 100 kebabs a day and charge depending of the size between 5 and 8 soles. Half of it is profit. It's a very succesfull business. They make good money.

Like a lot of people I love a good Kebab and have never had an issue with the amount of money a person has or earns.
I have friends and family, who range from not so well off, to millionaires, they also like Kebabs.
The clue is to think outside the box.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby curlyguy18 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:10 pm

panman wrote:The Peruvian system is laughable and completely open to abuse, as this site well proves and promotes. It isn't just from Americans and Europeans teaching English either, there's a new breed of people, I find particularly disturbing, selling Kebabs on the streets of Lima.


It isn't just the Peruvian system that is laughable. As TShadow said, so is the Italian one and many other countries'. People find a way to abuse the system, regardless of how effective it is. Look at all the terrorist attacks that have taken place in Europe and North America.

panman wrote:Let's take a look at the visa situation for instance. If Peru wants to promote tourism, as it should, then why not just let it be known that on arrival in the country, if approved, a person will be given a 30 day visa. This is quite sufficient for most genuine tourists to visit Machu Picchu, the Nazca lines and Lake Titicaca. If a person needs more time for whatever reason, then they should have to apply in advance, stating the purpose of their visit and pay a suitable administration fee. This would have no effect on the numbers of genuine "tourists" visiting Peru, but might keep out some of those who are getting the country a bad name in the international press.


Foreigners coming into the country know that they get 180 days in order to travel and that it doesn't allow them to work here. This is something that's already happening and that is stated very clearly. Yet, a lot of people come over and stay here working on toursit visas, doing border runs when the visa is about to expire. Again, people abuse the system, because it is laughable and even if it weren't, they still would.

As far as people selling kebabs in the streets, we can't just assume they're here illegally, just like we can't assume that all Americans/Europeans teaching English here are also working undocumented. They might be married to locals and have a CE, for all we know.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby curlyguy18 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:17 pm

TShadow wrote:Foreign visitors doing 'whatever' they want in Peru are a very small minority.
.


I work at two English institutes here and most of the foreigners working there are illegal, and it is not a small number, let me tell you.

My point is, it is not just Peruvains abroad abusing the system. We have foreigners here abusing the system as well, irrespective of the amount of them being larger or smaller than that of Peruvians abroad.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby panman » Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:16 pm

"I work at two English institutes here and most of the foreigners working there are illegal, and it is not a small number, let me tell you"

"Personally, I think it's unfair that Europeans/Americans can just come here and do whatever they want as if they own the country. We have to jump through so many hoops and be looked at suspiciously simply because we're South Americans"

I for one would like to see a stop to all of the illegal work taking place in Peru, and as a consiquence would suggest that If you really believe in what you stated above, then perhaps you should speak out and become part of the solution, rather than turning a blind eye and being part of the problem.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby TShadow » Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:40 pm

I do not have problems with foreigners working illegally here or elsewhere as long as they're behaving well and it's only temporary and their intentions are to settle down and become legal as soon as they have the possibility.

Sometimes people don't have any other choice. I do however have a problem with all criminal foreigners. They come here and to Italy and Spain only for this reason. Look at the following link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMn0Q9wy8Hs.

This also a reason why Peru is so attractive to certain people. I don't understand people who just let things happen, it is not true that people can't change nothing. That's why I was so angry with Italians who are becoming emotional only if their beloved football team is playing and otherwise as panman write, are turning around and look elsewhere. When I said in Italy I will go to visit Peru, people said to me, ah Machu Picchu. Give our greetings to the Lamas and bring us back some white flour. Italy is known for the Mafia. Is that what people like to hear? You can do your part to change that and do not blame others for it.

Nobody has a problem with people selling Kebab. It's the hygiene I'm more concerned. I do not care about how much money they earn as long as they pay their share of taxes. However I also would mind if there are hundreds of them in the streets. There is a reason for it why only a certain number of licenses will be issued for doing business on the streets.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby curlyguy18 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:00 pm

panman wrote:perhaps you should speak out and become part of the solution, rather than turning a blind eye and being part of the problem.


Panman, with all due respect, you do not know me personally, but I would like to tell you that I do not turn a blind eye. Where I work we have hired a lawyer to help illegals become documented workers. Some of them are willing to go through the process, some of them do not give a jack. The lawyers speaks little English and only one of the foreigners speaks Spanish, so I have decided to take on the task of translating for the foreigners in order to help them. So I am by no means turning a blind eye here, thank you very much.

I know I come across as having an attitude, but as a Peruvian who has lived abroad legally and been looked at suspiciously and been asked if I was legal in the country where I was living, it really ticks me off when I hear people say, "Oh yes,Peruvians go abroad to steal (as if foreign criminals did not come to Peru)", "tourists are assaulted in Peru (as if that didn't happen in Europe or anywhere else)", "I'm being underpaid (yet they're working here illegally)", or even worse, "In my country there are so many people working illegally; they should go home (yet they're illegals themselves here).

It is really annoying to see so many North Americans and Europeans here in Lima with this type of superiority complex. Of course not everyone is like this but many are.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby panman » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:19 pm

curlyguy18 wrote:
panman wrote:perhaps you should speak out and become part of the solution, rather than turning a blind eye and being part of the problem.


Panman, with all due respect, you do not know me personally, but I would like to tell you that I do not turn a blind eye. Where I work we have hired a lawyer to help illegals become documented workers. Some of them are willing to go through the process, some of them do not give a jack. The lawyers speaks little English and only one of the foreigners speaks Spanish, so I have decided to take on the task of translating for the foreigners in order to help them. So I am by no means turning a blind eye here, thank you very much.

I know I come across as having an attitude, but as a Peruvian who has lived abroad legally and been looked at suspiciously and been asked if I was legal in the country where I was living, it really ticks me off when I hear people say, "Oh yes,Peruvians go abroad to steal (as if foreign criminals did not come to Peru)", "tourists are assaulted in Peru (as if that didn't happen in Europe or anywhere else)", "I'm being underpaid (yet they're working here illegally)", or even worse, "In my country there are so many people working illegally; they should go home (yet they're illegals themselves here).



It is really annoying to see so many North Americans and Europeans here in Lima with this type of superiority complex. Of course not everyone is like this but many are.


Any decent lawyer, if there is such a thing, would tell your colleagues that if they're working without the correct documentation then they're working illegally and subject to prosecution.
He/she should also inform them to stop doing so until the proper paperwork is in place. The trouble is, not turning a blind eye to the facts might jeopardize their payment in the long term.
For the record, you do come across as having an attitude, but I have no problem with that. I came to Peru as a foreigner and had to jump through bureaucratic hoops to gain my current legal status and as a consequence also have an attitude when it comes to seeing the system being abused.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby chi chi » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:31 am

curlyguy18 wrote:It isn't just the Peruvian system that is laughable. As TShadow said, so is the Italian one and many other countries'. People find a way to abuse the system, regardless of how effective it is. Look at all the terrorist attacks that have taken place in Europe and North America.



All the 9/11 terrorists have entered the US legally. It's the US government that issued them a valid visa. The terrorists of the London attacks, had Pakistani roots but were born in the UK and had UK citizenship.

Stricter immigration rules will increase illegal immigration. Not decrease it.
The US has one of the strictest immigration rules in the world. Yet, they have the highest number of illegal immigrants. On top of that most illegal immigrants went through the immigration process and entered the country legally but overstayed their visa. And there isn't anything you can do to stop that.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby TShadow » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:24 am

Must agree with chi chi on that matter. In the world there are good and there are bad people, it is correct to give a helping hand to people who would like to become legal and not to ignore them or even worse to put them in the same boat with people who do not care.

Stricter immigration laws do not help to avoid criminals they often do only discriminate people with good intentions.

In Italy 50% of the immigrants are illegal because it's easier being there as ie in Germany. Also many of them are hired by mafia organisations thus becoming legal thru a false employment system. Then they sell counterfeit products, drugs and whatsoever. I had a shop in Italy and got angry with them as they were selling in front of my shop me paying high taxes and rent.

Numbers are relevant, you can't say the contrary if there are eg 200 Europeans/Americans actually in prison in Peru which has ca. 30 millions inhabitants, whilst Italy has about 60 millions and more than 33.500 foreigners in prison including more than 400 Peruvians and other 2800 people from SA numbers growing.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby chi chi » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:35 am

TShadow wrote:Stricter immigration laws do not help to avoid criminals they often do only discriminate people with good intentions.


The more stricter the immigration rules in the US, the better the business for the Mexican coyotes. If people can't get legally into the US, they will resort to the coyotos who will smuggle them in. And the more difficult it becomes, the rate to get smuggled in will go up.

The Chinese Triads also make billions with people trafficking.

More deportations and prosecuting illegal immigrants also benefits the people traffickers because many people that are smuggled into are forced into slave labour and prostitution to repay 'their debt' to the people traffickers. They can't escape and ask for help because if they to the police the will be deported and prosecuted.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby curlyguy18 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:35 pm

Yes, there are good and bad people, and it's the bad people that unfortunately gives the good people a bad reputation.

I agree with you, guys (chi chi, panman and TShadow). It seems like no matter how strict immigration rules are anywhere, people will always find a way to break them.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby argidd » Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:34 pm

kpw wrote:About 20-25 years ago, before the EU, Peruvians could travel within most of Europe without a visa. Question is, why did they lose that status? I think it had to do with drug smuggling and migration.

As for business, we are dealing with a different visa. I think Ollanta made a mistake here as well..


Well, it was before the Schengen area was established (1995).
So, Peruvians had no problem going into most countries in Europe (no visa needed), and then came the early 90's... Spain was fed up with so much crime due to Peruvian gangs, including drug smuggling. Apparently the Spaniards started to prohibit entrance to Peruvians, they were just sent back (I am not sure under what criteria or how, perhaps the peruanos who were adults in 1991 can input info) so the then Foreing Affairs Secretary (Agusto Blacker) said "So instead of sending people back, why don't they just ask Peruvians for visas?" And so they did.
Supposedly it was going to be reciprocal, but I don't know what happened along the way.

Long story short, Peruvians needed visas from Spain, and many other countries in Europe adopted the action as well; so when the Schengen area appeared in the "map" around 1995, Peru was in the "needs visa" list.

I've read that the Spanish government "owes Peru", that since this measure was temporary that they are trying to amend the situation and that since it was supposedly reciprocal, that they have to set it straight.
Who knows what their ulterior interest is.... but that there is one, there is no doubt in my mind!
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby Hitoruna » Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:59 pm

well I dont have time to read all the posts here, just read the first ones.

But I just came from Italy. Wonderful food and buildings but the rest... aghhh

I was robbed in Rome, money, credit cards, etc. So who is talking about "peruvians stealing blabla"

and apart from that the general attitude of italians were ughhhh.. the waiters, specially act as if we customers who are paying their salaries are a nuisance to them.

Never had a more stressful vacation

The best time I had in italy was when I didnt interact with the locals...
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby Alan » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:02 pm

Guys, we could go on and on venting our stereotypes, but come on, it's not really productive, it has proven to be hurtful, and it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby chi chi » Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:11 am

Many European countries has stricter visa regulations. Probably because the job market has been changed. Till 10 years ago, jobs were plentifull in Europe. Many sectors needed people from abroad as they couldn't find enough locals who wanted to work for them. Nowadays, there's a shortage of jobs. More locals are prepared to work for catering, cleaning and manufacturing companies.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby chelsearob77 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:10 pm

When is this new ruling actually coming into effect?
I read somewhere that there is supposedly going to be a meeting with the high European commission this month to clarify the final steps in approving the newer visa free additions (Peru/Columbia) to the list then once that's done they should have a date when visa free travel to the schengen areas for Peruvians starts
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby chi chi » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:24 pm

chelsearob77 wrote:When is this new ruling actually coming into effect?
I read somewhere that there is supposedly going to be a meeting with the high European commission this month to clarify the final steps in approving the newer visa free additions (Peru/Columbia) to the list then once that's done they should have a date when visa free travel to the schengen areas for Peruvians starts


Today, I was at the Embassy of Belgium and required of getting a visa for my gf to go with me to Belgium. There were some requirements and costs involved so the officer of the visa section told me that it's better to wait till next year because it will be very likely that she doesn't need a visa anymore. It's for 90% sure that the visa requirement will be waived.

People from Argentina, Chile, Brasil, Venezuela, Uruguay, Paraguay no longer need a visa to travel to the Schengen countries for a stay up to 90 days. Neither people from Mexico, Guatemala, Costa Rica, Panama, Honduras, San Salvador and Costa Rica need a visa.

So, it's logical that Peruvians no longer need a visa either.


Countries coloured in green on the map no longer need a visa.

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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby TShadow » Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:11 pm

Everything seems to get more complicated:

http://www.rpp.com.pe/2013-12-05-once-paises-europeos-se-oponen-a-suprimir-visa-schengen-al-peru-noticia_652770.html

Especially my country Germany is the biggest opposer to make Schengen less strict for people from SA.

Even Belgium is against as are all the economically stronger countries.

Let's see what will happen.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby chi chi » Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:56 pm

TShadow wrote:Everything seems to get more complicated:

http://www.rpp.com.pe/2013-12-05-once-paises-europeos-se-oponen-a-suprimir-visa-schengen-al-peru-noticia_652770.html

Especially my country Germany is the biggest opposer to make Schengen less strict for people from SA.

Even Belgium is against as are all the economically stronger countries.

Let's see what will happen.


Those countries can only delay it a bit but can't avoid it that Peruvians can travel visa free.
Peru is a far richer country and better place to live than Guatemala, Honduras, San Salvador, Paraguay, Venezuela and Nicaragua. People from those countries no longer need a visa at all to travel to the EU.

Anyway the can't avoid that people travel to the EU. Same counts for the US. If people are denied a visa, they go illegally and it's not difficult to do that. It even got easier to stay illegally in Europe and the US.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby lizzym » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:24 pm

We fail to look at the the other side of the coin sometimes. It is true that many Peruvians and South Americans go to Europe and remain there illegally and do unlawful things, but the same thing happens here. Europeans/Americans caught with drugs or living here on tourist visas and working as teachers, etc.

Personally, I think it's unfair that Europeans/Americans can just come here and do whatever they want as if they own the country. We have to jump through so many hoops and be looked at suspiciously simply because we're South Americans.


Guys, let's stop and think for a second that circumstances are often more complicated than they seem at first glance. For starters, the arcane set of laws in this country don't help with legality, etc. I came here for "love" in the middle of my last semester in college, thus without a university degree. Little did I realize that this is actually required in order to get work documents in Peru (without marriage or investor status, etc.) I've been offered contracts by various companies, but have failed to see them through for this reason - we always come to that unsurpassable wall. The frustrating part is that my child was born here (after my Peruvian ex, not an ex at the time, assured me that there would be no problem with getting residency after giving birth to a Peruvian here, which my sense of logic falsely confirmed), but this gives me no legal status whatsoever. As any parent leaving Peru with a child of Peruvian origin, I must have the signed permission from my ex to leave with our baby and go to my home country, which I'll never get. But in order to not abandon my child, which I'll never do, I am forced to support myself by working illegally, going from one company to the next hoping to find some way to get my legal documents and become a legal resident (since I have to stay in Peru anyway, which I'd much prefer not to do, but that's a secondary concern at this point.)

Maybe, in its effort to root out informality, Peru can start by fixing the insanity of its legal catch-22s.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby fanning » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:44 pm

lizzym wrote:Maybe, in its effort to root out informality, Peru can start by fixing the insanity of its legal catch-22s

It actually is not a legal Catch 22, like most countries, Peru only allows immigrants that fulfill certain requirements ( like being married, and ONLY needing to invest $30.000, for example in Holland you need to invest EUR 1,250,000 AND have a added value for the economy), or in case of a work permit, you need to have diplomas that add value to Peru.
You see your case as a Catch 22, because you don't qualify, but in reality anybody in your situation would not qualify to immigrate to any other country ( surely there are exceptions, but most western countries would not let you immigrate without proven skills, or ties to the country like being married )

And that your ex-girlfriend gave wrong legal advice, is hardly to blame on difficult Peruvian laws, more of ignorance of law of your ex..
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby chi chi » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:24 am

fanning wrote:
lizzym wrote:Maybe, in its effort to root out informality, Peru can start by fixing the insanity of its legal catch-22s

It actually is not a legal Catch 22, like most countries, Peru only allows immigrants that fulfill certain requirements ( like being married, and ONLY needing to invest $30.000, for example in Holland you need to invest EUR 1,250,000 AND have a added value for the economy), or in case of a work permit, you need to have diplomas that add value to Peru.
You see your case as a Catch 22, because you don't qualify, but in reality anybody in your situation would not qualify to immigrate to any other country ( surely there are exceptions, but most western countries would not let you immigrate without proven skills, or ties to the country like being married )

And that your ex-girlfriend gave wrong legal advice, is hardly to blame on difficult Peruvian laws, more of ignorance of law of your ex..


lizzym has a child born in Peru. In any decent European country she will get legal residence immediatelly as she's the mother of a child born in the EU and she will get free social housing and wellfare benefits for her and her child. In Belgium, she will get in that case a brandnew home and at least 2000 euros a month in wellfare benefits and on top of that free healthcare, free public transport and education. Like it should be anyway.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby fanning » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:34 am

chi chi wrote:In Belgium, she will get in that case a brandnew home and at least 2000 euros a month in wellfare benefits and on top of that free healthcare, free public transport and education

As I said, there surely will be exceptions. But if I understand correctly, even in Belgium you would not be allowed to work, you are forced into wellfare... :shock:
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby chi chi » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:10 am

fanning wrote:
chi chi wrote:In Belgium, she will get in that case a brandnew home and at least 2000 euros a month in wellfare benefits and on top of that free healthcare, free public transport and education

As I said, there surely will be exceptions. But if I understand correctly, even in Belgium you would not be allowed to work, you are forced into wellfare... :shock:


If she has an EU passport or has legal residency in Europe then she can avail of all state benefits and she will be allowed to work.

Wellfare benefits should be given in Peru as well. It will solve the poverty problem and crime will go down a lot. Many people have to steal to survive. Some countries in Europe have cut down on wellfare benefits and the result is that crime is gone up.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby chelsearob77 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:02 am

lizzym wrote:
We fail to look at the the other side of the coin sometimes. It is true that many Peruvians and South Americans go to Europe and remain there illegally and do unlawful things, but the same thing happens here. Europeans/Americans caught with drugs or living here on tourist visas and working as teachers, etc.

Personally, I think it's unfair that Europeans/Americans can just come here and do whatever they want as if they own the country. We have to jump through so many hoops and be looked at suspiciously simply because we're South Americans.


Guys, let's stop and think for a second that circumstances are often more complicated than they seem at first glance. For starters, the arcane set of laws in this country don't help with legality, etc. I came here for "love" in the middle of my last semester in college, thus without a university degree. Little did I realize that this is actually required in order to get work documents in Peru (without marriage or investor status, etc.) I've been offered contracts by various companies, but have failed to see them through for this reason - we always come to that unsurpassable wall. The frustrating part is that my child was born here (after my Peruvian ex, not an ex at the time, assured me that there would be no problem with getting residency after giving birth to a Peruvian here, which my sense of logic falsely confirmed), but this gives me no legal status whatsoever. As any parent leaving Peru with a child of Peruvian origin, I must have the signed permission from my ex to leave with our baby and go to my home country, which I'll never get. But in order to not abandon my child, which I'll never do, I am forced to support myself by working illegally, going from one company to the next hoping to find some way to get my legal documents and become a legal resident (since I have to stay in Peru anyway, which I'd much prefer not to do, but that's a secondary concern at this point.)

Maybe, in its effort to root out informality, Peru can start by fixing the insanity of its legal catch-22s.


Both my son & daughter was born here in Peru but they both have British passports through me & if me (or even my Peruvian wife) even want to leave Peru for any reason as my kids have EU passports they won't be required to have written permission from either parent to leave Peru!

Both me & my wife was told at our local notary this rule only applies to Peruvians, even though my kids have Peruvian nationality the fact they have dual nationality & would be leaving Peru on British passports make them exempt from this rule.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby argidd » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:19 am

Rob, your kids would have to leave on their Peruvian Passports. In order for them to leave on their British Passports, they would have to show the white slip (which means they would have entered the country as UK citizens).
I too am a bi-national, and I always leave on my Peruvian Passport, since there is no visa to enter EU, you just show both passports at immigrations, and they understand you will be entering on your EU Passport into the EU or wherever.

Since my parents live abroad, they think it is easier to visit on their EU Passports, so they enter and leave on EU Passports, but that doesn't apply when you are a resident here.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby chelsearob77 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:41 pm

argidd wrote:Rob, your kids would have to leave on their Peruvian Passports. In order for them to leave on their British Passports, they would have to show the white slip (which means they would have entered the country as UK citizens).
I too am a bi-national, and I always leave on my Peruvian Passport, since there is no visa to enter EU, you just show both passports at immigrations, and they understand you will be entering on your EU Passport into the EU or wherever.

Since my parents live abroad, they think it is easier to visit on their EU Passports, so they enter and leave on EU Passports, but that doesn't apply when you are a resident here.


My kids don't have Peruvian passports, but on both their British passports it states their birth place as being Peru & I enquired in the past about how to get around the white slip to leave which they don't have & was told at our local notary that all we would need to do is flash my kids D.N.I's then that would be fine
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby chelsearob77 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:08 pm

chi chi wrote:
fanning wrote:
chi chi wrote:In Belgium, she will get in that case a brandnew home and at least 2000 euros a month in wellfare benefits and on top of that free healthcare, free public transport and education

As I said, there surely will be exceptions. But if I understand correctly, even in Belgium you would not be allowed to work, you are forced into wellfare... :shock:


If she has an EU passport or has legal residency in Europe then she can avail of all state benefits and she will be allowed to work.

Wellfare benefits should be given in Peru as well. It will solve the poverty problem and crime will go down a lot. Many people have to steal to survive. Some countries in Europe have cut down on wellfare benefits and the result is that crime is gone up.


Giving benefits won't stop crime anywhere chi chi!

I grew up in a country where they give benefits to almost anyone & most people as a result live such a comfortable life they never bother to look for work instead just live off hardworking taxpayers money!
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby gerard » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:51 pm

chelsearob77 wrote:My kids don't have Peruvian passports, but on both their British passports it states their birth place as being Peru & I enquired in the past about how to get around the white slip to leave which they don't have & was told at our local notary that all we would need to do is flash my kids D.N.I's then that would be fine


I'd double check that if I was you - it won't half ruin your trip when immigration say the kids can't leave without a Peruvian passport. I doubt if your local notary knows the ins and outs of immigration in any detail, and whilst using just a DNI is fine for inter-Andean community travel (I think), for anywhere else they'll need a passport.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby chelsearob77 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:04 pm

gerard wrote:
chelsearob77 wrote:My kids don't have Peruvian passports, but on both their British passports it states their birth place as being Peru & I enquired in the past about how to get around the white slip to leave which they don't have & was told at our local notary that all we would need to do is flash my kids D.N.I's then that would be fine


I'd double check that if I was you - it won't half ruin your trip when immigration say the kids can't leave without a Peruvian passport. I doubt if your local notary knows the ins and outs of immigration in any detail, and whilst using just a DNI is fine for inter-Andean community travel (I think), for anywhere else they'll need a passport.




yes they have brtish passports and british birth certificate, and in both they said they born in Lima Peru,thats why they can go out with that with anyone of the parents.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby chi chi » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:18 am

chelsearob77 wrote:Giving benefits won't stop crime anywhere chi chi!

I grew up in a country where they give benefits to almost anyone & most people as a result live such a comfortable life they never bother to look for work instead just live off hardworking taxpayers money!


Fair play to them. The Royal Maffia does the same.
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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby argidd » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:00 am

chelsearob77 wrote:
gerard wrote:
chelsearob77 wrote:My kids don't have Peruvian passports, but on both their British passports it states their birth place as being Peru & I enquired in the past about how to get around the white slip to leave which they don't have & was told at our local notary that all we would need to do is flash my kids D.N.I's then that would be fine


I'd double check that if I was you - it won't half ruin your trip when immigration say the kids can't leave without a Peruvian passport. I doubt if your local notary knows the ins and outs of immigration in any detail, and whilst using just a DNI is fine for inter-Andean community travel (I think), for anywhere else they'll need a passport.




yes they have brtish passports and british birth certificate, and in both they said they born in Lima Peru,thats why they can go out with that with anyone of the parents.


Hi Rob, I totally agree with Gerard. If you are a Peruvian national (such as myself) and leave the country to anywhere outside South America (where you are allowed in with a DNI), you are not allowed out of the country without a Passport.
If your kids were to travel, say to the UK, they will be asked to produce a Peruvian Passport to leave. If they don't have Passports, it is as easy as going to immigrations and getting them Passports; if they have DNI's you just need to do the paperwork and the line.
Regards,

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Re: No more schengen tourist visa for peruvians ?

Postby chelsearob77 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:18 pm

chi chi wrote:
chelsearob77 wrote:Giving benefits won't stop crime anywhere chi chi!

I grew up in a country where they give benefits to almost anyone & most people as a result live such a comfortable life they never bother to look for work instead just live off hardworking taxpayers money!


Fair play to them. The Royal Maffia does the same.


Sorry chi chi but I find people who are only interested in a handout (government benefit's, free housing) & not want to do anything (work) to contribute totally disgusting!

My country (The United Kingdom) for years has been overrun with parasites who sponge money left right & centre off the government to fund their lifestyle while the hardworking taxpayer has to foot the bill for them!

There are many people here in Peru who work very hard to just do enough to get by while lazy ungrateful people who are lucky enough to live in a country where they have everything handed to them on a plate!

I'm all for people wanting to move to another country to better their lives, but they should at least work & contribute towards the economy of that country before they are entitled to benefits (with the exemption of healthcare as that should be given to everyone within reason)

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