BULK SHIP TO USA...

Answers to your qestions about moving to, and living in, Peru,
Philipc4u59
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BULK SHIP TO USA...

Postby Philipc4u59 » Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:31 pm

I "opened" a can of worms, I had "Roger in the US" take back several 250 g bags of coffee for me; to divide & send to my many family & friends in the US. So far so good...

Now, I am getting all these requests to send more & I will not bother Roger to send small samples of coffee for me - plus he is in OK, now. I will send these people a full 250 g bag; but the rates seem very prohibitive.

It seems that if you stay at 500 g or less; the rates are somewhat acceptable with Serpost - so a few beans would have to be "left out" of the bags to get each under 250 g - considering for packaging. The next step is for Serpost to inspect the bags (no issues with coffee beans) & then US customs (again - no issues, I hope).

Any other ideas that I should consider??? Is Serpost the least expensive way to bulk ship???

TY for your help,
Philip :roll:


panman
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Re: BULK SHIP TO USA...

Postby panman » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:40 pm

I know this is Peru, but surely like most other postal services worldwide, the more you send the less you pay.
Therefore wouldn't it be better, if the demand is such, to send a larger package containing multiple 250g bags of coffee and having someone distribute them in the US?
Philipc4u59
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Re: BULK SHIP TO USA...

Postby Philipc4u59 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:55 am

The assumption that "someone will distribute them" concerns me - ANYWHERE in the world!!!
The larger the package, the more chances that US customs will be involved; I detest the government (any government) interfering with a LEGAL importing effort - some 211 pages of documents/regulations!!!

Maybe if I place on the declaration list "I know CHI CHI"; I may get preferential treatment!!!

Philip :roll:
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Re: BULK SHIP TO USA...

Postby teamoperu » Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:01 am

Legal importation would require that one follows the relevant 211 pages of regulations.
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Re: BULK SHIP TO USA...

Postby argidd » Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:11 am

Are you sure you asked for regular air mail (certified, but the regular 15 day approx service?). I used to send out various things on the post, and don't remember it being so expensive for N. America & Carribean. I think I would pay something around 20 soles for less tan 250g, plus 7 soles for certified. Yes, it's not US mail rates, but it is not undoable.

Coffee doesn't have problems going through the mail but if you send a lot of it it could be taken for commercial shipping and therefore subject to paying taxes.
Regards,

Argidd
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Re: BULK SHIP TO USA...

Postby richorozco » Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:14 am

Wouldn't it be cheaper/better/quicker to have someone who is going back to the US just carry it with? As long as the beans are real beans and no funny business going on, I know I and other take back 20 kilos of Maiz morado (the raw powder ....not the chicha morada mix or anything) as well as Quinoa.

You can take that stuff thru customs without a problem .... as long as they are not fruits/vegetables/meat. As long as it is cooked, dried, or in powder ...it can come with you.

I also bring back tamales and humitas since they cost $5.00 a piece (frozen and made with US ingredients) in the US. The folks in Miami check one or two but they notice that it is cooked and give you no problems.

The tamales do look like "bricks" and raises eye brows since they are coming from Peru, but I have never had a problem with this.....
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Re: BULK SHIP TO USA...

Postby Philipc4u59 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:13 pm

From your experience, would 20 kl of roasted coffee beans (all in sealed packs) be allowed?
Or should I keep the roasted beans in one large container & let my contacts in the US - bag for me?
Still concerned when the US customs regs. say "for personal use"; that could be subject to interpretation.

In my post "COMING or GOING TO US..." many posters cautioned about the person "adding" something to the mix of coffee beans; this could be an issue - as I don't want to go to jail for someone's illegal acts.

If you know of anyone going to the states; please advise...

Philip :roll:
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Re: BULK SHIP TO USA...

Postby ironchefchris » Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:54 pm

Philipc4u59 wrote:Or should I keep the roasted beans in one large container & let my contacts in the US - bag for me?
Still concerned when the US customs regs. say "for personal use"; that could be subject to interpretation


Philipc4u59 wrote:Legal & persuasive; the ONLY WAY to proceed in business/personal issues,
Philip :roll:


Why not do as you suggest, go the fully legal route, be honest, list that the coffee is for resale, do like all legitimate businesses, and follow the some 211 pages of US government regulations in order to LEGALLY import your product? If the cost per unit is too high to make legally importing profitable than either wait until you build up enough business to lower your per unit costs to an acceptable level, or disregard your "LEGAL is the only way to proceed in business" code and work the system/find a way to ILLEGALLY import your product, i.e. have a mule lie to Customs and say that all the coffee is for "personal use only," fill out the forms saying "personal use only," etc..

Philipc4u59 wrote:The assumption that "someone will distribute them" concerns me - ANYWHERE in the world!!!
The larger the package, the more chances that US customs will be involved; I detest the government (any government) interfering with a LEGAL importing effort - some 211 pages of documents/regulations!!!

Maybe if I place on the declaration list "I know CHI CHI"; I may get preferential treatment!!!

Philip :roll:


Legally importing anything into the US implies that Customs will be involved. That's what Customs does - ensures that goods are imported into the country LEGALLY. They're not "interfering with a LEGAL importing effort" they're doing their job and ensuring that the importation is indeed legally carried out and their 211 pages of regulations are being followed. I don't understand what you "detest," unless by "LEGAL importing effort" you mean that the items you're importing are legally importable and not illegal contraband, and therefore should not be subjected to customs regulations. Obviously, it doesn't work like that. I would think a "LEGAL importing effort" would mean following the regulations, no matter how many pages. So much for the US making things simple and easy for the person starting a new business. I empathize - I hate red tape and regulation as well, but it is part of conducting business.
Last edited by ironchefchris on Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BULK SHIP TO USA...

Postby teamoperu » Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:24 pm

Philipc4u59 wrote:From your experience, would 20 kl of roasted coffee beans (all in sealed packs) be allowed?
Or should I keep the roasted beans in one large container & let my contacts in the US - bag for me?
Still concerned when the US customs regs. say "for personal use"; that could be subject to interpretation.

In my post "COMING or GOING TO US..." many posters cautioned about the person "adding" something to the mix of coffee beans; this could be an issue - as I don't want to go to jail for someone's illegal acts.

If you know of anyone going to the states; please advise...

Philip :roll:


"If you know of anyone going to the states; please advise..." Say what?

Sure sounds like a repeat of another thread. In that one I argued no business and would rely on individual ad hoc travellers to deliver the product to the US, too much work, too risky, still delivery problems in the USA etc. But apparently some talk more than they listen.

But maybe the mules will listen. In this day and age you would be an absolute idiot to transport some stranger's coffee (yes, internet friends are strangers and some of them are certifiable Loonie Tunes) a product from Peru to the USA in your luggage... from Peru for heavens sakes! You are just opening the door wide open for problems. Ignore the extremes of the drug trade, just how are you going to answer “Is this for personal use”. “No, I am carrying it for some friend”. “Where did you meet him?” Dah, “on the internet.” You might have to start brewing the coffee to stay awake for how long the subsequent questioning and investigation will take, fines and paperwork. Or you could lie to the government officials, now there is a great idea, NOT. And why, what's in it for you but potential headaches and a note on your passport file? Or maybe they will pay you handsomely like the drug mules to make it worthwhile.... NOT

I consider my warning to any potential mules as my public service announcment of the day.
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Re: BULK SHIP TO USA...

Postby Philipc4u59 » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:31 am

FYI:

Yes, there are "risks" involved in having ANYONE take back any product to another country; I just was trying to figure out a LEGAL way to get some of my coffee to my family & friends in the US.

Having a person who I have known for quite a while (expat in Peru - not some Internet mule) take back 3-4 bags - with him/her keeping 1-2 bags for their efforts; is what I was expecting. Seems like a WIN-WIN to me?

But alas, I now will send only with a courier or Serpost; I don't appreciate nor will I tolerate the "implication" that I am doing anything illegal! I detest "red tape" for a start-up/small business & its' product -coffee - that will be used for PERSONAL USE (not resold) - when imported to the US. I see nothing ILLEGAL - here???

Thank you for your concerns for my well-being; I venture to say that any other start-up/small business would consider what I have proposed; not every person is looking to "break the import laws of the US"; just trying to adapt & keep my promises to family & friends in the US...

"Simple is better..." in many situations; less expensive & no need to consult an export attorney; while still not breaching any laws... Remember Forum Rule #2; respectful posting???

Philip :roll:
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Re: BULK SHIP TO USA...

Postby ironchefchris » Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:26 pm

Philipc4u59 wrote:
I detest "red tape" for a start-up/small business & its' product -coffee - that will be used for PERSONAL USE (not resold) - when imported to the US.

Philip :roll:


This is a bit confusing. If you're talking about sending friends and family coffee for personal use as a gift (without remuneration), I don't see that you have any problem - just ship like you would a gift at holiday time. If you are charging someone for your product than it is not for "personal use." You mention "a start-up/small business & its' product..." and the thread title is "BULK SHIP TO USA...." That doesn't sound like personal use but implies a product being imported and sold by a business with the goal of generating a profit. Of course you can say that everything is for personal use when you get down to it as everything sold by a business eventually winds up being used by the end consumer for personal use - but Customs isn't going to buy that definition. You can say that a shipping container full of coffee that you are exporting to the US is for personal use because at some point someone is going to be drinking that coffee, but in the eyes of Customs, that shipping container full of coffee is not for personal use. If I ship a few alpaca sweaters to my family as gifts without remuneration, that would be considered for personal use. If I ship a box of alpaca sweaters to someone to distribute for me, send them with a mule by plane for the same purpose, or if I ship them out individuality and charge for them, than that sweater is no longer for personal use but a product being sold by a business (perhaps "a start-up/small business") in order to generate profit. I could also send a large box of alpaca sweaters to my family to distribute to paying customers for me and label that box for "personal use" but I'd be lying and Customs probably wouldn't buy it. The actual alpaca sweater remains the same regardless; an item that will be worn by the end consumer for personal use. It's your intent (determined by Customs) that determines whether or not the sweater is for personal use (such as a gift) or for sale to generate a profit for your start-up/small business. Are you just sending a handful of bags to friends and family as gifts or are you trying to operate as a business and sell to customers with the intent of generating a profit? If you're operating as a business, whether large and/or established or start-up/small, detest it or not, you have to deal with red tape, Customs, taxes, etc. - if you want to operate legally.

Sounds like there're two ways to go if you want to legally import into the US a product for sale. One would be to do an end run around Customs and ship out each individual bag to each individual customer for "personal use only," and incur the higher per unit shipping costs. The other legal option is to bulk ship, deal with Customs and all their rules and paperwork, and have a distributor distribute for you or sell the coffee in bulk to a distributor, wholesaler or someone else who will retail, taking advantage of the economies of scale to lower your per unit shipping costs. Let's take a look at the first option. According to argidd's figures, it will cost you S/20 to send less than 250 g (but let's round up to 250g) plus another S/7 for certification. Add that S/27 (or more if you plan to add in the cost of packing materials) to the S/29.90 price for the coffee and it costs the US consumer S/56.90 - a little more than $20 per 250g bag. Without having to wait or pay for shipping, I can buy premium, organic, shade grown, fair trade coffee at my local natural food market in the states for $7.99 per 454 grams (the store always has at least one blend on sale for $4.99 per 454 grams, but let's stick with the higher price) which comes out to $4.40 or a little more than S/12 per 250g. A little bit more than one fifth of the price for the same quality but without the wait. I'm no expert and I don't know all your details because the details you've provided have been fairly vague, but I just don't see how the numbers work out on this business model. I myself would follow the advice of one of my business school professors and not spread my energy and money too thinly, instead focusing on the most profitable sector of my business, which to me sounds like selling your product locally in Lima. Or running a school. Or an antiques business. Or ....???? I myself don't see how you have the time and energy to sell coffee locally and for the export market, start up and run a school, hunt for and sell antiques, etc. and do them all well, but more power to you. You are an inspiration to the multi-task generation.
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Re: BULK SHIP TO USA...

Postby caliguy » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:03 pm

14. Mark an X in the Yes or No box. Are you or any family members traveling with you bringing commercial merchandise into the United States?

Examples: all articles intended to be sold or left in the United States, samples used for soliciting orders, or goods that are not considered personal effects.

15. If you are a U.S. resident, print the total value of all goods (including commercial merchandise) you or any family members traveling with you have purchased or acquired abroad (including gifts for someone else, but not items mailed to the United States) and are bringing into the United States.
Note: U.S. residents are normally entitled to a duty-free exemption of $800 on items accompanying them
Note: use your best judgement. :)
every place has it's own spirit. you just need to tune into it.
Philipc4u59
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Re: BULK SHIP TO USA...

Postby Philipc4u59 » Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:31 pm

Ironchef,

You are going to great lengths & spending a lot of time; trying to discredit my intentions of shipping my coffee to family & friends in the US; maybe you never had an "Aunt Mable" who was so proud of her peach preserves, that she sent to everyone as a TREAT? Everything is not about making $$$; but taking good care of special people in a person's life.

I need to warn you to "cease & desist":
1. Implying anything; bulk shipping to me is more than one package - in my situation 3-4 (as mentioned).
2. You are trying to defame my good intentions by mentioning a "shipping container"; never mentioned.

I am curious why you continually TROLL me at every opportunity you get; are you jealous of my successes & that I can navigate several profitable businesses at a time? I am up at 5:00 am every morning & retire at 11:30.
I suggest you use your time more constructively & see if you too - can make a nice living in Peru.

You "tab" is continuing, I charged $145.00 @ hour for clients who could afford my consumer advocate services in the US; you owe me quite a bit of money for my precious time to defend against your baseless claims.

Get a life & STOP trying to "steal" mine,
Philip :|
Last edited by Philipc4u59 on Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BULK SHIP TO USA...

Postby teamoperu » Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:07 am

Philipc4u59 wrote:Teamoperu,

You are going to great lengths & spending a lot of time; trying to discredit my intentions of shipping my coffee to family & friends in the US; maybe you never had an "Aunt Mable" who was so proud of her peach preserves, that she sent to everyone as a TREAT? Everything is not about making $$$; but taking good care of special people in a person's life.

I need to warn you to "cease & desist":
1. Implying anything; bulk shipping to me is more than one package - in my situation 3-4 (as mentioned).
2. You are trying to defame my good intentions by mentioning a "shipping container"; never mentioned.

I am curious why you continually TROLL me at every opportunity you get; are you jealous of my successes & that I can navigate several profitable businesses at a time? I am up at 5:00 am every morning & retire at 11:30.
I suggest you use your time more constructively & see if you too - can make a nice living in Peru.

You "tab" is continuing, I charged $145.00 @ hour for clients who could afford my consumer advocate services in the US; you owe me quite a bit of money for my precious time to defend against your baseless claims.

Get a life & STOP trying to "steal" mine,
Philip :|


For accuracy, I never said anything about shipping containers and bulk shipments or several businesses. You are confused about who said what, causing you to falsely accuse the wrong person.
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Re: BULK SHIP TO USA...

Postby Philipc4u59 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:30 am

Yes, it was Ironchef - that said that. I apologize; I get the trolls mixed up occasionally.

Philip :roll:
PS - I will change the designation to reflect his name
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Re: BULK SHIP TO USA...

Postby ironchefchris » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:22 pm

Philipc4u59 wrote:I need to warn you to "cease & desist":
1. Implying anything; bulk shipping to me is more than one package - in my situation 3-4 (as mentioned).
2. You are trying to defame my good intentions by mentioning a "shipping container"; never mentioned.


Sounds like you and I have differing opinions on the definition of defamatory - and bulk shipping for that matter. I see nothing at all defamatory about setting up a hypothetical situation ("You can say that a shipping container full of coffee that you are exporting...") based on a condition.

de·fame (d-fm)
tr.v. de·famed, de·fam·ing, de·fames
1. To damage the reputation, character, or good name of by slander or libel. See Synonyms at malign.

hy·po·thet·i·cal (hp-tht-kl) also hy·po·thet·ic (-thtk)
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or based on a hypothesis: a hypothetical situation. See Synonyms at theoretical.
2.
a. Suppositional; uncertain. See Synonyms at supposed.
b. Conditional; contingent.
n.
A hypothetical circumstance, condition, scenario, or situation: OK, let's consider this possibility thenjust as a hypothetical.

I called you no names, made no false, libelous, statements about you or your character, commented on the topic, and said nothing that would be considered defamatory by the legal (or any other) sense of the word. In fact, in the last sentence of my last post I stated that I find you an inspiration to others.

Philipc4u59 wrote:From your experience, would 20 kl of roasted coffee beans (all in sealed packs) be allowed?
Or should I keep the roasted beans in one large container & let my contacts in the US - bag for me?
Still concerned when the US customs regs. say "for personal use"; that could be subject to interpretation.


By "20kl" I'm assuming you mean 20kg? You can see how one would interpret that amount as being more than just for "personal use," unless by a bag or two for Aunt Mable you mean 10 kilo sacks for Aunt Mable to rebag for you? I would think Customs would consider 20 kg to be beyond the reasonable limit of "personal use" as well. You are rather vague in your postings - sometimes suggesting your interest is as a "start-up/small business" other times suggesting you only want to ship a bag or two to Aunt Mable. No bad intentions on my part by suggesting you are trying to ship as a business if you are not going to be clear in your posted intentions - I'm not a mind reader.

Philipc4u59 wrote:Business people, expats, etc. - please help me to understand how to do business - SIMPLY - in Peru.
Your comments and suggestions are tremendously valued by me (possibly others),
Philip :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


I notice that should I, teamoperu, or Sergio Bernales give our opinions we are called names and told to CEASE AND DESIST, but should others offer comments or opinion critical of your business ideas (using mules to transport coffee) or cultural insensitivities ("Peruvians are like little children," or your idea to hire someone to stand outside of Radio Shack and yell CRIMINAL at passerby's) they don't receive the same treatment. I'm guessing you're still sore because I took up the cause of several others who had issues with your use of caps and decided to change to LOUDER tactics when the opinions and concerns of my fellow "little guys" went unheard and then ignored. I'm curious. Will sbaustin be called names and falsely accused of defaming you simply for stating a fact based opinion that is contrary to your own on a recent thread (FROM RUSSIA - WITH LOVE???) or will he get a "Great POST, you "sure" are an expert on the Internet, "keep" up the GREAT posting?"

I went to business school so business related topics, such as how others conduct business, interest me. When I run my ideas by people or ask for opinions/advice I take what others have to say into consideration. Most likely I'll respond to the content of their opinion and further broaden the depth of the conversation through meaningful dialogue. At the end of the day I'll take their advice or I won't, but I don't call them names or falsely accuse them of defaming me for offering their (perhaps differing) opinion. Why bother asking for advice and opinion otherwise? I'm not one for asking for opinion to only hear the sound of my own voice or to be reassured by "yes men." It's also been noticed that when we offer an opinion you rarely, if ever, address the details of the content or message itself, but instead go after the messenger simply for stating their opinion on a public forum. If you don't want to hear the opinions of others you shouldn't ask for them on public Internet forum. Have a good day.
Last edited by ironchefchris on Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: BULK SHIP TO USA...

Postby Timmy69 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:50 pm

Asking the little man for $145 an hour to act as a consumer advocate? It sounds to me like you had your hands in his pocket. No wonder you're here in Peru. I don't imagine there are many people foolish enough to pay for information that is already in the public sphere. Consumer advice is freely available on the internet, as well as state bodies and various organisations and citizens advice bureaus, where advice is dispensed gratis by trained attorneys who freely volunteer their time to give advice to citizens for nothing.

As the previous poster said, if you continually post on an internet forum that is freely accessible by all and you don't like what people say, then you should stop posting and use your money to pay for professional advice. I'd also suggest you fully declare everything to customs if you wish to import products into the United States. Many of these laws that you complain about exist to protect the people of the United States from terrorists, drug smugglers and tax evaders.

Please also stop criticising the US government, its public officials and the people of the United States. If you do not wish to follow the laws of the United States, show disrespect and publicly criticise its public servants, its government and its laws, then do not do business there. Find another country to sell your product to.
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Re: BULK SHIP TO USA...

Postby Philipc4u59 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:47 pm

Maybe you need to research what a consumer advocate does; I help people who can't afford an attorney at possibly $400 @ hour & do a better job - as I have ethics & morals!

Many times; I worked for free "pro bono"; as the client couldn't afford to pay my fees. When was the last time you worked for free & even paid the legal filing fees - out of your own pocket??? NO TIME!

Since when was freedom of expression/speech banned on expatperu; same answer - NO TIME!

It appears you want to join the ranks of trolls here; good luck - people read your 'IGNORANCE".

Philip :|
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Re: BULK SHIP TO USA...

Postby Timmy69 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:06 pm

Philipc4u59 wrote:Maybe you need to research what a consumer advocate does; I help people who can't afford an attorney at possibly $400 @ hour & do a better job - as I have ethics & morals!

Many times; I worked for free "pro bono"; as the client couldn't afford to pay my fees. When was the last time you worked for free & even paid the legal filing fees - out of your own pocket??? NO TIME!

Since when was freedom of expression/speech banned on expatperu; same answer - NO TIME!

It appears you want to join the ranks of trolls here; good luck - people read your 'IGNORANCE".

Philip :|


Sir, bad manners and rudeness never got a man anywhere in this world. Please treat me and the other posters on this site with respect and don't make assumptions about people you have neither met nor know anything about. I'd also ask you to refrain from making derogatory comments about the United States, her government. her laws and her people. I'd also remind you that tax evasion and smuggling are against the law in the United States and those who are caught in such illegal activities always feel the full force of the law.

Good day.
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Re: BULK SHIP TO USA...

Postby Ruud » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:21 am

ironchefchris wrote:
I myself would follow the advice of one of my business school professors and not spread my energy and money too thinly, instead focusing on the most profitable sector of my business, which to me sounds like selling your product locally in Lima. Or running a school. Or an antiques business. Or ....???? I myself don't see how you have the time and energy to sell coffee locally and for the export market, start up and run a school, hunt for and sell antiques, etc..........


And entertain the expat community in Peru on an daily basis.
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Re: BULK SHIP TO USA...

Postby Philipc4u59 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:58 am

WOW!!!
Where is Kelly (former moderator); when I need her!!!

FYI:
1. My initial post "BULK SHIPPING" was an attempt to send back 3-4 bags of coffee (250 g each) to US.
2. Never did I say the coffee would be for RESALE; these are presents & a trusted friend in US will distribute.
3. No need to interject "drug mules"; this casts a negative light on my sincere intentions to share my coffee.

4. The "Troll Triad" then interjected shipping containers"??? For 3-4 bags; NOT FOR RESALE/GIFTS???
5. Now Timmy interjects "tax evasion" & "smuggling"??? This sort of adding your own "facts"; needs to stop!
6. THESE POSTS ARE WAY OFF TOPIC & I shouldn't have to remind Alan of this; Kelly - please come back!!!

Yes, these "fanning the flames" of controversy make for more readers; but at what "expense" to the poster???
I agree with a post by AmeriCorps about the "trolling & incorrect information" being allowed to continue on expat & my entire post is deleted???

What direction is expatperu headed??? As a professional forum or a "scandal sheet"???
Better read & save this post; before it is deleted & I am BANNED!!!

Philip :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :|
PS - my "past" in helping poor people navigate the complex & expensive legal system of the US; along with providing a safe home/hostel for abused women (no charge) in my previous city (as the mayor had no money in the budget) - QUALIFIES me as an Amazing American. This doesn't mean I can't comment about import issues (even if I have no current plans for actual/resale importing); FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION/SPEECH - is what has distinguished the US to the entire world. No one can or will take that away from me; DON'T EVEN TRY!!!

To prevent further defamation of my business & personal reputation; this post needs to be LOCKED!!!

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