Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Answers to your qestions about moving to, and living in, Peru,
mrsteak
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Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:42 pm

Here comes my view on this country.... ok if you want to paint your reality beautiful stop reading here please. :D

Why you should NOT live in Peru:

1. daily practice: try to get from Surco to Miraflores at 9am, or from Miraflores to Surco at 6pm... you see what I mean? Come on, this is really NOT normal.

2. quality of life: very low. Except you live in some very overpriced gated communities you won't have any reasonable life quality here. Maybe you don't mind. I do

3. horribly overpriced. there was about 20-25% inflation in the last 3-4 years. Just look at your electricity bill to get an idea. Rents skyrocketed.

4. real estate is NOT affordable. In for me acceptable zones an average flat for average sized family is around 250.000 USD (yes USD not soles), if you go to the "premium" zones, you can easily spend 400.000 - 500.000 USD on a flat (NOT house). Where we live in Surco they sell a lot of 550m^2, guess what is the price: 995000 USD.... yeah
The RE market is horribly inflated, most of the investment come from narco business or illegal mining which keeps the prices high.
Come on.... do you really want to spend 300k, 400k, 500k on an apartment?? In Peru? Look at the type and quality of construction... maybe you do not mind?
What about quakes? If there is a mayor quake close to Lima lots of these buldings WILL come down. Believe me. In our building walls are breaking apart after the quakes that we had in the last 2 years. It was not stronger than 4.7. Now imagine a 7 or 8 class quake in Lima....

5. Absurd immigration laws. Instead of creating less and simpler categories they just shake the law thoroughly... There should be just visitor/turist visa, permanent resident by relative, work contract visa and retirement/no work visa. It should be bound to whether you require to occupy a job in Peru or you just bring your own money/money is paid from abroad.

Why the hell do you need an artist visa? or catholic clerk visa? Migraciones CAN join that stuff together, if they want... but they do not want. They want to keep 20 migratory qualities to fill the queues doing TRAMITIES. They need to have jobs...

6. Overwhelming bureaucracy, failed banking system, corruption. In my opinion the economy in Peru is at the edge of complete collapse. The real estate market will take the banks down in this country. You hardly find a new development that is not financed by Interbank, Scotia, BCP or BBVA. They are the major banks (I do not see Banbif involved that much). What do you think happens in this country when more and more assets get toxic? There is no sufficient isnurance fund to save even one of them. Imagine these major banks start to fail, what is going to happen here? It won't be that civilized like it was in US or Spain... there will be riots, people will burn the banks and go after the people who sold them the mortgages.

Unlike other countries Peru has NOT an elaborate banking system. If 3 banks in NY fail it may not be a mayor concern for US, but if 3 banks fail in Peru this country is finished forever. You will be using donkeys again to bring food from the jungle. Really.

7. Police not working. Try to call police about your neighbour making loud music at 2am while you have to wake up at 7am to go to work... NO WAY. Even if they do something it wont be ever a mayor problem. Your neighbour can clear that with a 100 buck note....

8. Overall lack of education. Just look at the garbage

9. Pollution

10. Medical care... make your own thoughts!

OK OK I dont want to be subjective: there are few good points about Peru:

1. food
2. food
3. food
4. food
5. girls
....

but come on.... what are your priorities in your life???


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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby 69roadrunner » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:01 am

Spot on, except for food lol. Great post.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby jumpinjack » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:26 am

Mmmm steak. Hey Mr. Steak,where can I find a good steak? Not in restaurants nor in stores to take home and cook. Where are they hiding.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:51 pm

For steaks I rather recommend going to Uruguay or Argentina. Peru is so so.... do you see lot of cattle in Peru? So do not ask for steaks.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby ironchefchris » Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:46 pm

Aplaca steaks are real tasty. Better nutritional profile as well when compared to steaks from cattle.

Are you seriously judging the entire country (based on thread title) to be one of the worst countries to live because of the rush hour commutes between Sucro and Miraflores?
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:30 pm

Nobody is judging. Just pointing out why this country does not qualify as a serious place for living.

If you think there are better places to live and work in Peru, without all the above points, you are free to lay that down here.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby fanning » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:54 pm

1. Use Waze and/or Taxi Beat with your credit card linked to it, you can relax during your ride. Me myself live 5 houses from work, so I shower at 8, have breakfast, and at 8.55 walk to work, to start a relaxing workingday.
2. Miraflores is an excellent living area, just 2 blocks from Larcomar, 7 minute walk to Parque Kennedy, and as a resident of Miraflores you get discounts in parking in the brand new parking.
3. More Lifemiles on my credit card, and anyway, where did live get cheaper ?
4. Great for investment, we just bought a lot of land in a club in the south beaches, for US$43000, presale, so by the time it is ready it will be worth US$70.000 or more. Our house in Miraflores also should be worth more each year we live happily in it.
5. Just compare it to your home country. They will have more difficult immigration laws for Peruvians to immigrate, than you will ever face. How much you paid to get your paperwork in order, max US$ 500 if you let it be done by a tramitador, and less if you do it yourself. Only in my homecountry the application fee is higher, and you would be separated from your family for months, which isn't the case in Peru. And after 2 years you can naturalize and become a Peruvian, and forget about it all together.
6. Peru seems to grow with more than 5% a year, while for example in Holland the news just proudly announced they are growing an astonishing 0.5% !
7. We are in South America !!
8. I can put the garbage out EACH night at any time I like. They pass by the house 3 times during the night EACH night. In Holland they come by every 2 weeks, and if your bin is too full, they won't pick it up, and fine you on top of it.

9. We are in a 10 million city

10. Get a private insurance ( which in my case is paid by my employer), go to Clinica Delgado. Or without it, you would pay out of pocket LESS than you would pay WITH insurance in the USA.

Food,
Get a Cuenta Sueldo of any bank and enjoy 50% discount on many restaurants. Or get a subscription to El Comercio and get even more discounts. ( I have both )

Live is relaxed in Lima !
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:07 pm

fanning wrote:Live is relaxed in Lima !


... yeah I see you love that country. But overall: a weak reply :P

1. yeah... I have a car and basically cannot use it. It is not worth the stress. And I have driven for years in countries like Spain, France, Italy... I made more than 300.000km in my life without a single accident but in Lima I cannot drive 500m without seeing serious infractions of traffic rules. You do not need more than 5 minutes to see something that in a normal country you would be arrested for. This country is upside-down!

2: I got punched with a knife into my backpack just while trying to take a taxi in Miraflores at 4pm, not even at night. They tried to rob stuff from outside pocket. I could even be dead. You think police is interested to investigate? Only if you give them money... and it happend about 4 blocks from the comisaria de miraflores. But yeah, it is a great place to live.....for thieves.

3: look at Spain for example. rents are down by 50%. It is not justified to pay 2000-3000 USD in Miarflores for an apartment with sea view (dirty water), while you can rent a very nice flat e.g. in Alicante for as little as 400 Eur just on the beach. You should really look around what the prices are... even in South+middle America no country is more expensive than Peru (at the moment). Golden rule of investment: NEVER think it will be worth more later. It won't. Buy stuff only when it is mostly worthless. Best place to buy a house now: Venezuela. Yeah... to buy, not live there.

4. only seems so. You will soon see that land and real estate is getting mostly worthless in Peru. Especially the coast is a desert without any means of subsistence. Totally worthless land. Even if you build a house on it, with the next major quake your investment will be worthless. If there are major economic problems it will quickly get worthless too.

5. I'm from EU and my wife gets easily a 5 year "permanent" visa, what you get in Peru? The changes in immigration law turned this country into a police state with respect to foreigners. Just read the law. It has got very hostile to foreigners.

6. it is a mushroom growing. The perpetual growth litany ends where it always ends: economic collapse. Especially Peru has totally overshoot its forces, there is nothing really driving the economy in Peru, besides of money laundering, drugs and prostitution. Ever seen a screw made in Peru? A car? A computer? Mobile phone? Anything besides food and clothes comes from Peru?

7. Police IS working in some of the SA countries.

8. yeah... if your bin is too full you have to order a bigger bin, that's the idea behind it. I know what you mean btw, I was living in countries with lots of rules and some of them are really annoying. However, especially the waste is the worst argument you can use against too many rules in other countries. Just look how many cockroaches are everywhere around in Lima. I WISH we had here waste bins so people stop throwing the garbage around... You know why there are no waste bins in Lima? Because they would be stolen if left outside unattended.... come on, this is a place to live?!

9. you got it wrong: it compares with nothing in "normal" world. Why they do not ground all the old diesel buses and old crap cars? You know why? Because the gov in Peru gives a poop on your well being. They have no idea of how the life of their citizens should be. How clean the air should be. What standard should be applied to drinking water. etc. All is driven by mafia and corruption, you have a transport company with all old diesel buses from the 60? No problem... just pay the "fees" and you can run it forever, passing any control tecnico and polluting the air como te da ganas. That's what is here.

10. I do not trust a doctor in Peru. And I got this advice from a doctor here.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby jumpinjack » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:36 am

ironchefchris wrote:Aplaca steaks are real tasty. Better nutritional profile as well when compared to steaks from cattle.

Are you seriously judging the entire country (based on thread title) to be one of the worst countries to live because of the rush hour commutes between Sucro and Miraflores?

If I want a Chevy, why would I settle for a Tico, which seems to be a way of life for expats in Peru, just settle for it.
You know, that is what they say about Buffalo steak too but it does not hit the spot like a good ol' t-bone. Has anyone ever bought ground beef in Peru? Have you smelled it? If you do you will never do that again. Tastes ok when you cook it up, but I have wonder about that oder.
BTW where would one find that Alpaca stuff with all that nutrition profile stuff?
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:03 am

Are you seriously judging the entire country (based on thread title) to be one of the worst countries to live because of the rush hour commutes between Sucro and Miraflores?


Well honestly I made a very simple experience in my life: JUST DRIVE ONE HOUR, or two, or three somewhere in a capital city of a country you do not know yet, AND YOU WILL FOR SURE KNOW HOW THAT COUNTRY WORKS. Very simple rule, very practical and for my experience: quite accurate. Come on... in Surco I want to cross the pedestrian x-ing with my 2 yrs son, and nobody will let you through, if you step on they accelerate, ring the clackson, cry at you, and will kill you.... this is a country to live??? really???

Has anyone ever bought ground beef in Peru? Have you smelled it? If you do you will never do that again. Tastes ok when you cook it up, but I have wonder about that oder.
BTW where would one find that Alpaca stuff with all that nutrition profile stuff?


another note on food quality: usually stuff coming from remote ares is still good in Peru. Grown naturally. But stuff from mass production really suck in terms of quality. Just look at the eggs... never seen so bad eggs as in Peru. Not in France, not in Spain, not in Italy, not in Germany, not in Portugal, not in Brasil, not in Uruguay.... you may be even eating DDT here in Peru, coz if there is virtually no control of anything they will just spray anything onto the acreage to get max $$$. Believe me.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby ironchefchris » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:37 am

mrsteak wrote:
Are you seriously judging the entire country (based on thread title) to be one of the worst countries to live because of the rush hour commutes between Sucro and Miraflores?


Well honestly I made a very simple experience in my life: JUST DRIVE ONE HOUR, or two, or three somewhere in a capital city of a country you do not know yet, AND YOU WILL FOR SURE KNOW HOW THAT COUNTRY WORKS. Very simple rule, very practical and for my experience: quite accurate. Come on... in Surco I want to cross the pedestrian x-ing with my 2 yrs son, and nobody will let you through, if you step on they accelerate, ring the clackson, cry at you, and will kill you.... this is a country to live??? really???

I wouldn't judge an entire country by life in it's capital city. Sounds like maybe you should consider living outside of Lima if you want to stay in Peru? Or living somewhere where you don't have to drive. I live in a city of one million and can pretty much walk to 90% of the places I want to go to within a half-hour. I don't blame you though. I wouldn't want to live in Washington D.C.. But I wouldn't judge rural Northern California, New England or the Midwest, every other city, or anywhere else in the US as being unlivable because of that. Other reasons (and there're plenty).... I won't disagree.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby ironchefchris » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:40 am

jumpinjack wrote:
ironchefchris wrote:Aplaca steaks are real tasty. Better nutritional profile as well when compared to steaks from cattle.

Are you seriously judging the entire country (based on thread title) to be one of the worst countries to live because of the rush hour commutes between Sucro and Miraflores?

If I want a Chevy, why would I settle for a Tico, which seems to be a way of life for expats in Peru, just settle for it.
You know, that is what they say about Buffalo steak too but it does not hit the spot like a good ol' t-bone. Has anyone ever bought ground beef in Peru? Have you smelled it? If you do you will never do that again. Tastes ok when you cook it up, but I have wonder about that oder.
BTW where would one find that Alpaca stuff with all that nutrition profile stuff?

Obviously it's just a subjective opinion, but I think alpaca is far tastier than any steak I've had from a cow. Never tried Buffalo steak, so I can't speak to that.

Here's that nutritional profile stuff:

Image
Image
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby jumpinjack » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:52 am

ironchefchris wrote:
jumpinjack wrote:
ironchefchris wrote:Aplaca steaks are real tasty. Better nutritional profile as well when compared to steaks from cattle.

Are you seriously judging the entire country (based on thread title) to be one of the worst countries to live because of the rush hour commutes between Sucro and Miraflores?

If I want a Chevy, why would I settle for a Tico, which seems to be a way of life for expats in Peru, just settle for it.
You know, that is what they say about Buffalo steak too but it does not hit the spot like a good ol' t-bone. Has anyone ever bought ground beef in Peru? Have you smelled it? If you do you will never do that again. Tastes ok when you cook it up, but I have wonder about that oder.
BTW where would one find that Alpaca stuff with all that nutrition profile stuff?

Obviously it's just a subjective opinion, but I think alpaca is far tastier than any steak I've had from a cow. Never tried Buffalo steak, so I can't speak to that.

Here's that nutritional profile stuff:

Image
Image

But where does one find it preferably raw so I can try cooking it up. What restaurants offer it up?
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby ironchefchris » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:00 pm

Where do you live, jumpinjack?
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby jumpinjack » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:27 pm

Honestly, I came here asking where to find a nice t-bone. You seem to want to hawk Alpaca so I thought why not. I do not see what it matters where I live. If the stuff is so great, it should be easily found. Where do you find it? Either cooked or preferably raw.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby ironchefchris » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:32 pm

Maybe you're misreading me. I'm just stating a preference when I say I prefer alpaca and offering a suggestion/alternative to those who say they can't find a decent steak. I'm hawking alpaca as much as you're hawking t-bone - which I don't think you are at all. Not that it matters.

I only asked where you lived because you asked the following:

"But where does one find it preferably raw so I can try cooking it up. What restaurants offer it up?"

Can't give you relevant and/or specific answers to your questions (esp. about restaurants) without an idea of what general area you live in. Someplace I know, like Arequipa or Lima? Or someplace I don't know at all, like Chiclayo or Huancayo? Since you "do not see what it matters (to say) where I live" when you ask a stranger online where you can find something you're asking about, I'll give you painfully obvious, generic answers as opposed to anything more specific:

- You can find it raw to cook up at a carnicería.

- You can find restaurants that offer it up by using Google or some site that gives restaurant and/or tourist info about your area like Fodor's, TripAdvisor, etc. - but even if you don't see that it matters, you'll need to provide your general location if you want restaurant suggestions.

- Asking a local would likely give you answers to both of your questions.

Have a nice rest of your weekend and good luck in your search for alpaca should you chose to want to try it.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:35 pm

ironchefchris: your table says nothing. It is a myth that colesterol in food is bad for your body. 80% of colesterol level is genetic.

I NEED colesterol. and I need calories and fat! That way alpaca steak is just low on nutrients :D
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby jumpinjack » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:56 pm

ironchefchris wrote:Maybe you're misreading me. I'm just stating a preference when I say I prefer alpaca and offering a suggestion/alternative to those who say they can't find a decent steak. I'm hawking alpaca as much as you're hawking t-bone - which I don't think you are at all. Not that it matters.

I only asked where you lived because you asked the following:

"But where does one find it preferably raw so I can try cooking it up. What restaurants offer it up?"

Can't give you relevant and/or specific answers to your questions (esp. about restaurants) without an idea of what general area you live in. Someplace I know, like Arequipa or Lima? Or someplace I don't know at all, like Chiclayo or Huancayo? Since you "do not see what it matters (to say) where I live" when you ask a stranger online where you can find something you're asking about, I'll give you painfully obvious, generic answers as opposed to anything more specific:

- You can find it raw to cook up at a carnicería.

- You can find restaurants that offer it up by using Google or some site that gives restaurant and/or tourist info about your area like Fodor's, TripAdvisor, etc. - but even if you don't see that it matters, you'll need to provide your general location if you want restaurant suggestions.

- Asking a local would likely give you answers to both of your questions.

Have a nice rest of your weekend and good luck in your search for alpaca should you chose to want to try it.

Actully I was asking where would you go. But if you need specifics, let's start with Lima or Arequipa. Where would you go? I speak no Spanish so asking a local would be difficult. As for meat markets, you mean those open air bug ridden places. Is that where you go?
You are the one that brought it up, where does one find the stuff?

Mmmm fat.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby Formidable 1 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:17 pm

All this meat talk makes me glad I'm a vegetarian.
Which is extremely difficult in a carnivorous country like Peru.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:17 pm

Formidable 1 wrote:All this meat talk makes me glad I'm a vegetarian.
Which is extremely difficult in a carnivorous country like Peru.


well I wouldnt say that! you have lots of great fruits and vegetables here. However, people are just not used to eat vegetarian dishes, so you may have some social pressure to eat meat.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby SilverbackPeru » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:24 pm

6. Peru seems to grow with more than 5% a year, while for example in Holland the news just proudly announced they are growing an astonishing 0.5% !

Developed countries grow at lower rates as they are fully developed where as undeveloped countries have more room for growth so when things start to go well you see high increases in their growth rates, so that isn't really a valid comparison.

It's like saying Chelsea football club haven't improved much over the last five years cos they are still in the top four if the premier league but look at Brentford United their booming as they've went from the bottom division of the football league in 2010 up two divisions!
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby SilverbackPeru » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:39 pm

mrsteak wrote:Here comes my view on this country.... ok if you want to paint your reality beautiful stop reading here please. :D

Why you should NOT live in Peru:

1. daily practice: try to get from Surco to Miraflores at 9am, or from Miraflores to Surco at 6pm... you see what I mean? Come on, this is really NOT normal.

2. quality of life: very low. Except you live in some very overpriced gated communities you won't have any reasonable life quality here. Maybe you don't mind. I do

3. horribly overpriced. there was about 20-25% inflation in the last 3-4 years. Just look at your electricity bill to get an idea. Rents skyrocketed.

4. real estate is NOT affordable. In for me acceptable zones an average flat for average sized family is around 250.000 USD (yes USD not soles), if you go to the "premium" zones, you can easily spend 400.000 - 500.000 USD on a flat (NOT house). Where we live in Surco they sell a lot of 550m^2, guess what is the price: 995000 USD.... yeah
The RE market is horribly inflated, most of the investment come from narco business or illegal mining which keeps the prices high.
Come on.... do you really want to spend 300k, 400k, 500k on an apartment?? In Peru? Look at the type and quality of construction... maybe you do not mind?
What about quakes? If there is a mayor quake close to Lima lots of these buldings WILL come down. Believe me. In our building walls are breaking apart after the quakes that we had in the last 2 years. It was not stronger than 4.7. Now imagine a 7 or 8 class quake in Lima....

5. Absurd immigration laws. Instead of creating less and simpler categories they just shake the law thoroughly... There should be just visitor/turist visa, permanent resident by relative, work contract visa and retirement/no work visa. It should be bound to whether you require to occupy a job in Peru or you just bring your own money/money is paid from abroad.

Why the hell do you need an artist visa? or catholic clerk visa? Migraciones CAN join that stuff together, if they want... but they do not want. They want to keep 20 migratory qualities to fill the queues doing TRAMITIES. They need to have jobs...

6. Overwhelming bureaucracy, failed banking system, corruption. In my opinion the economy in Peru is at the edge of complete collapse. The real estate market will take the banks down in this country. You hardly find a new development that is not financed by Interbank, Scotia, BCP or BBVA. They are the major banks (I do not see Banbif involved that much). What do you think happens in this country when more and more assets get toxic? There is no sufficient isnurance fund to save even one of them. Imagine these major banks start to fail, what is going to happen here? It won't be that civilized like it was in US or Spain... there will be riots, people will burn the banks and go after the people who sold them the mortgages.

Unlike other countries Peru has NOT an elaborate banking system. If 3 banks in NY fail it may not be a mayor concern for US, but if 3 banks fail in Peru this country is finished forever. You will be using donkeys again to bring food from the jungle. Really.

7. Police not working. Try to call police about your neighbour making loud music at 2am while you have to wake up at 7am to go to work... NO WAY. Even if they do something it wont be ever a mayor problem. Your neighbour can clear that with a 100 buck note....

8. Overall lack of education. Just look at the garbage

9. Pollution

10. Medical care... make your own thoughts!

OK OK I dont want to be subjective: there are few good points about Peru:

1. food
2. food
3. food
4. food
5. girls
....

but come on.... what are your priorities in your life???


I basically agree with all of this when it comes to life in Lima. There are some really nice parts of the city like Miraflores, San Isidro, La Moline but the housing prices are insane. Unless you have a good job then life is basically horrible.

Several hours to get to work each day, very little in the way of things to do (amazing considering Lima is over 10 million people), endless rubbish (even in the better off neighbourhoods there is always litter) insane house prices, can't afford to buy or rent somewhere nice and if you arent in the posh part of Lima then the rest of the city is a utter $h!thole, no proper public transport, expensive medical insurance compared to average wages, the list just goes on and on.

The seafood is really good but it's rare you can afford proper food when you are on a local wage (sorry but rice and potato isn't proper food!).

I'm back home now and making over 10,000 soles a month delivering take aways and live in an area where you can get town center two bedroom apartments for £50,000. Very easy comfortable life where the cost of living is very easy.

It has it's nice parts Lima but it's just too expensive to survive there.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:48 pm

SilverbackPeru wrote:6. Peru seems to grow with more than 5% a year, while for example in Holland the news just proudly announced they are growing an astonishing 0.5% !

Developed countries grow at lower rates as they are fully developed where as undeveloped countries have more room for growth so when things start to go well you see high increases in their growth rates, so that isn't really a valid comparison.


only thing that grows for ever is cancer!

at 5% growth rate you have to consume 2x in 15 years and 4x in 30 years, and yeah 10x that much in 50 years... do you really think people will consume 10x more food in 50 years in Peru? Will drive 10x more the car? Buy 10 TVs per year instead of just once? Growth is a mistaken idea.

In fact the high so called growth rate in Peru is a safe indicator it will collapse rather soon.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby SilverbackPeru » Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:22 pm

mrsteak wrote:
SilverbackPeru wrote:6. Peru seems to grow with more than 5% a year, while for example in Holland the news just proudly announced they are growing an astonishing 0.5% !

Developed countries grow at lower rates as they are fully developed where as undeveloped countries have more room for growth so when things start to go well you see high increases in their growth rates, so that isn't really a valid comparison.


only thing that grows for ever is cancer!

at 5% growth rate you have to consume 2x in 15 years and 4x in 30 years, and yeah 10x that much in 50 years... do you really think people will consume 10x more food in 50 years in Peru? Will drive 10x more the car? Buy 10 TVs per year instead of just once? Growth is a mistaken idea.

In fact the high so called growth rate in Peru is a safe indicator it will collapse rather soon.


People have been saying the economy will collapse for ages but it hasn't. They have diversified the economy a lot with less reliance on natural resources and have spread out into agriculture which will help stablize the economy and prevent it from just being reliant on gas, oil, etc.

But you are right in your original post, it's just way too expensive to live easily in the country and the cost of living makes it a horrible place to live.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:53 pm

People have been saying the economy will collapse for ages but it hasn't. They have diversified the economy a lot with less reliance on natural resources and have spread out into agriculture which will help stablize the economy and prevent it from just being reliant on gas, oil, etc.

But you are right in your original post, it's just way too expensive to live easily in the country and the cost of living makes it a horrible place to live.


well maybe I should better specify what I mean with collapse: the banks will crash, real estate will crash, there will be civil unrest, more and more crime.

It does not mean that you won't have anything to eat. It will be just back to using donkeys to bring food to Lima.

A place you really will not like to live in anymore.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby fanning » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:04 pm

mrsteak wrote:A place you really will not like to live in anymore.

Isn't it great to be an expat. You always have an escape if what you predict happens, actually happens.

Until then, we have a great life in Peru !
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:12 pm

fanning wrote:
mrsteak wrote:A place you really will not like to live in anymore.

Isn't it great to be an expat. You always have an escape if what you predict happens, actually happens.

Until then, we have a great life in Peru !


well, in case of any emergency you wont escape Lima... no ticket for u! And the road system is not prepared for any emergency escape. We had 2 weeks no tap water in Surco when all the rains came down in April. Or was it March? Anyway you see what I mean... this city is not prepared in any aspect to host 10 Milion. No way.

The best point you can bet on: if you get in trouble in Peru at some point they may return you to your country. This is in any case better than to be Peruvian e.g. in Spain and be returned to Peru in case of economic problems.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby fanning » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:45 pm

mrsteak wrote:well, in case of any emergency you wont escape Lima... no ticket for u! And the road system is not prepared for any emergency escape. We had 2 weeks no tap water in Surco when all the rains came down in April. Or was it March? Anyway you see what I mean... this city is not prepared in any aspect to host 10 Milion. No way.

Actually we also had that problem in march. For the hotel we bought some water from a well in Huachipa, and in my own house I dig in a 2500 liter water tankImage
Image
on top of the 1100 I already have on my roof. So if we get water shortages again, and do some rationing, we can make it 2 weeks without water from the tap. We have a UV + carbon filter so we can drink treated tap water.

If you want European securities, you know were to go. At least we don't have ISIS attacking us yet as they are doing in Europe at the moment.
Even the St Nicolas arrival in Holland had to be secured with antiterrorist-concrete-disguised as gifts. Image
The Peruvian airforce is only used to intimidade the New Zealand football-team, so it is used not in war, but in football !
What a great country to live in !
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby Formidable 1 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:43 pm

mrsteak wrote:
Formidable 1 wrote:All this meat talk makes me glad I'm a vegetarian.
Which is extremely difficult in a carnivorous country like Peru.


well I wouldnt say that! you have lots of great fruits and vegetables here. However, people are just not used to eat vegetarian dishes, so you may have some social pressure to eat meat.

Yeah, people are insensitive when it comes to people's choice not to eat certain foods.
Sure, Peru has a plethora of fruit and veggies.
What I do is buy a bunch of fruit and veggies and throw them in a blender and have a meal that way then tell them I'm stuffed.
Which I am.
I was debating buying a masticating juicer but a blender is the same difference.
Works just as well and cheaper.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:48 pm

fanning wrote:If you want European securities, you know were to go. At least we don't have ISIS attacking us yet as they are doing in Europe at the moment.
Even the St Nicolas arrival in Holland had to be secured with antiterrorist-concrete-disguised as gifts.
The Peruvian airforce is only used to intimidade the New Zealand football-team, so it is used not in war, but in football !
What a great country to live in !


yeah I Know what you mean... but put it that way: how many people cannot accumulate water? If you own property maybe you can do some preparations, but we rent - so we can't. And other around 10 Millions can't too... they won't even have the money to prepare their households for a major event, even if they had the space.

Just think about it: Lima had 3 water processing plants and in March one of them got destroyed due bad construction due to corruption when it was built... so it depends now on the 2 remaining plants. If one more of them is gone, this city will die. The gov is absolutely not prepared for ANY major event. Even if you can store water for 2 weeks, what you do if the supply is interrupted for long time due to a major event? 1000 liters wont be enough! And I hope you have some guns?! If not the most dangerous thing for you is when people know you have water while they don't. Got my point?

It is totally useless for you to be prepared for anything if you cannot defend your possession. I'm not advocating guns, just pointing it out for you.

I also hardly disagree with what our Govs had done in Europe - however it is not a solution to go to a country where the gov just has no idea about anything, like in Peru. I bet "those people" do not come to South America, but if one day they come, the peruvian gov won't even be able to put these concrete anti-terrorist walls... no money. So don't be proud of not having/needing it yet in Lima. It is just that way because AS OF NOW nobody cares about Peru. I won't depend on that.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby fanning » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:34 pm

mrsteak wrote:I also hardly disagree with what our Govs had done in Europe - however it is not a solution to go to a country where the gov just has no idea about anything, like in Peru. I bet "those people" do not come to South America, but if one day they come, the peruvian gov won't even be able to put these concrete anti-terrorist walls... no money. So don't be proud of not having/needing it yet in Lima. It is just that way because AS OF NOW nobody cares about Peru. I won't depend on that.


Peru kind of had the worst terrorism you can think of in the 80ties and beginning '90. And they got rid of it ! For over 25 years we live in an everyday more prosperous country ! Even the released terrorist start to admit they were wrong and Peru has gotten on the right track.
Extreme poverty dropped to 9% , moderate poverty from 45% -> 19 %, so it seems to be on the right track.
http://www.worldbank.org/en/country/peru/overview
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:48 pm

@fanning: I do not believe any statistics... and less one from world bank...

Maybe you should think about terrorism that way: it gets rid of itself once the reasons the terrorists had gone away... I would say rather the fall of military dictatorship got rid of the terrorism than the other way around.

Now guess WHY there is increasing terrorism in EU...
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby fanning » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:11 pm

mrsteak wrote:Now guess WHY there is increasing terrorism in EU...

I don't care ! I happily live in Peru.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby ironchefchris » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:21 pm

Didn't see any mentions of Peru being one of the worst countries to live on any lists, but I did see mention of Colombia, Brazil, Argentina, and Venezuela in addition to countries like Syria, Somalia, Iran, Iraq, North Korea, etc.. Of course the whole idea of "worst" is subjective. I couldn't see wasting my time living somewhere I think is one of the worst places to live. Why bother when there are so many other options?

https://www.thetoptens.com/worst-countries-live/

https://qz.com/1073486/greece-is-the-wo ... -an-expat/

http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the- ... ve-in.html
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby jumpinjack » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:30 am

ironchefchris wrote:Didn't see any mentions of Peru being one of the worst countries to live on any lists, but I did see mention of Colombia, Brazil, Argentina, and Venezuela in addition to countries like Syria, Somalia, Iran, Iraq, North Korea, etc.. Of course the whole idea of "worst" is subjective. I couldn't see wasting my time living somewhere I think is one of the worst places to live. Why bother when there are so many other options?

https://www.thetoptens.com/worst-countries-live/

https://qz.com/1073486/greece-is-the-wo ... -an-expat/

http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the- ... ve-in.html

Hmmm All that Google look up and no mention on where to find Alpaca.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby SilverbackPeru » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:02 am

fanning wrote:
mrsteak wrote:I also hardly disagree with what our Govs had done in Europe - however it is not a solution to go to a country where the gov just has no idea about anything, like in Peru. I bet "those people" do not come to South America, but if one day they come, the peruvian gov won't even be able to put these concrete anti-terrorist walls... no money. So don't be proud of not having/needing it yet in Lima. It is just that way because AS OF NOW nobody cares about Peru. I won't depend on that.


Peru kind of had the worst terrorism you can think of in the 80ties and beginning '90. And they got rid of it ! For over 25 years we live in an everyday more prosperous country ! Even the released terrorist start to admit they were wrong and Peru has gotten on the right track.
Extreme poverty dropped to 9% , moderate poverty from 45% -> 19 %, so it seems to be on the right track.
http://www.worldbank.org/en/country/peru/overview


Poverty is measured differently depending on which part of the world you live. It's ok saying moderate poverty has dropped to 19% but even when i do deliveries to the worst council estate in town the living standards are way higher than some of Limas medium level suburbs like San Miguel etc. Without wanting to sound like ChiChi but you can have a lot higher standard of living in Europe by just not working compared to most people in Peru. It sounds like an exaggeration but it truely isn't. Of course people say life in Peru is good if you live like a local but why would you want to live like a local? I'm sorry but i don't want to have to eat rice and potato every single day to survive.

The hard thing about living in Lima is the ugliness of the place. Mass unfinished concrete hell holes with metal bars sticking out of the buildings, poor brick work with random bricks sticking out of walls for no reason. The badly wired cables across the streets, then there's the rubbish!!! God i hate the rubbish.
They may come and collect rubbish every day but they sure don't take all of it and loads ends up across the street. Rubbish is a problem as well on council estates but at least the buildings are finished and people take care of their property a bit better unless they are chavs.
Even when living in one of Limas richest areas litter was always made me angry.

Traffic, unless you live in Miraflores then you'll never have to deal with the nightmare that is rush hour traffic in Lima. Ovee two hours (four on a bad day) commuting to work and back and that was in a taxi. You can't relax at all with all the horns going and some taxi drivers just drive like maniacs. Lima has probably the worst transport system in the world for a city of it's size. Then there's the heat, exhuast fumes from trucks bellowing into the taxi window the list just goes on.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby SilverbackPeru » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:12 am

I'm a but harsh on Peru but maybe the problem is I always judge Peru on Lima which unless you have money is just one horrible place to live. I've been to places like Chiclayo and couldn't see that being much better either but Arequipa and Huaraz seemed a lot more laid back but they both still have big problems with horrible construction to make it worth while living there but life did seem easier.

Maybe it's a common thing to just judge Peru on Lima.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:27 am

SilverbackPeru wrote:The hard thing about living in Lima is the ugliness of the place. Mass unfinished concrete hell holes with metal bars sticking out of the buildings, poor brick work with random bricks sticking out of walls for no reason. The badly wired cables across the streets, then there's the rubbish!!! God i hate the rubbish.
They may come and collect rubbish every day but they sure don't take all of it and loads ends up across the street. Rubbish is a problem as well on council estates but at least the buildings are finished and people take care of their property a bit better unless they are chavs.
Even when living in one of Limas richest areas litter was always made me angry.


yeah... what kind of "architects" design all this crap buildings?! in our flat of 100qm about 30qm are lost on "dead space" like floors or unusable edges. The problem is not only outside look but also the insides.

You can use google maps to explore other places, however looking at Arequipa, Cuzco, etc it does not seem better anywhere. It is like a plague in Peru. Everywhere that bad brick constructions with sticking bars. It makes me sick.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby SilverbackPeru » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:57 am

mrsteak wrote:
SilverbackPeru wrote:The hard thing about living in Lima is the ugliness of the place. Mass unfinished concrete hell holes with metal bars sticking out of the buildings, poor brick work with random bricks sticking out of walls for no reason. The badly wired cables across the streets, then there's the rubbish!!! God i hate the rubbish.
They may come and collect rubbish every day but they sure don't take all of it and loads ends up across the street. Rubbish is a problem as well on council estates but at least the buildings are finished and people take care of their property a bit better unless they are chavs.
Even when living in one of Limas richest areas litter was always made me angry.


yeah... what kind of "architects" design all this crap buildings?! in our flat of 100qm about 30qm are lost on "dead space" like floors or unusable edges. The problem is not only outside look but also the insides.

You can use google maps to explore other places, however looking at Arequipa, Cuzco, etc it does not seem better anywhere. It is like a plague in Peru. Everywhere that bad brick constructions with sticking bars. It makes me sick.


Maybe beauty us in the eye of the beholder and it depends on where you come from. I'm from a rural village in England which are usually great places to live with village greens, local pubs, well kept front gardens and have endless beaches, lakes and fells to just go out and explore. Very easy to live in and cheap, Lima was only going to struggle to compete. Plus Newcastle and Glasgow are only two hours away which is basically easier to get to than Miraflores during rush hour! :lol:

I keep hearing from how cities are the be all end all but unless you have the finances to live in the poshest part they just come across to me as concrete dumps with poor quality of life.
I do love the nicer parts of Lima with it's modern apartments, nice parks but these are just tiny pockets in a city of ten million everything outside of those pockets is rubbish although there's no difference between Lima in that respect with places like Manchester which is a ugly place as well.
Usually it's the smaller cities that provide a good balance between city living and quality of life. Places like Newcastle or Edinburgh are easier than London as Arequipa would be compared to Lima.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:52 pm

SilverbackPeru wrote:I do love the nicer parts of Lima with it's modern apartments, nice parks but these are just tiny pockets in a city of ten million everything outside of those pockets is rubbish although there's no difference between Lima in that respect with places like Manchester which is a ugly place as well.


but do you really have so much pollution in Manchester? Do you have so many cars smoking like a chimney? Places can be ugly but still have some quality of life. Lima is ugly AND polluted like hell. So what's the point to live there?

Once you get your pulmonary cancer you will rethink this point!
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby Alan » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:25 pm

No doubt about it: Lima has a serious problem with traffic which is only bound to get worse, crime is always an issue, there are some pretty ugly neighborhoods, and corruption in the government and private sector is holding the country back. Will Peru become a retirement mecca any time soon? Not bloody likely.

On the other hand, there is growth, and growth means opportunities, and thanks to the fact that the average age here is only 25 years old, this demographic bonus will keep the country moving for another couple of decades. Add to that a sustained agro boom thanks to increased irrigation on the coast, and at the current boom in copper prices, the horizon is looking pretty good.

But for expats moving here now without saleable skills, strong local contacts, or deep pockets, it is an uphill battle, and for sure, there are easier places to move to. That said, there are quite a few expats here (and I count myself among them) that really enjoy life here... so it really depends on the niche you have carved out for yourself and your family.

I suppose the take-away from this thread is we all need to be strategic when we consider where we are moving. Do your research and come prepared.

Best wishes to all.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:17 pm

in my opinion an expat should ask these questions first:

1. can I own easily real estate if I go to that country?

2. is real estate affordable? Is it overpriced? Is it nice to own?

3. do you get any rights if you own real estate? Can you stay in your home for an entire year?

While 1 is a maybe for Peru, 2+3 are a clear NO. So why should an expat consider Peru?

Look at Panama: you buy RE for 300.000 and you obtain permanent residency. So why spend 300k in Peru? Whats the point?
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby Alan » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:05 pm

mrsteak wrote:

Look at Panama: you buy RE for 300.000 and you obtain permanent residency. So why spend 300k in Peru? Whats the point?


It is a good point, though I have heard Panama is killer hot.

Most expats who come here have ulterior motives.. maybe work or family, but, if you don't need to consider those things there are no doubt a lot of places that beat Lima hands down. It all depends what you are looking for, and what you enjoy.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby 69roadrunner » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:45 pm

Alan wrote:
mrsteak wrote:

Look at Panama: you buy RE for 300.000 and you obtain permanent residency. So why spend 300k in Peru? Whats the point?


It is a good point, though I have heard Panama is killer hot.

Most expats who come here have ulterior motives.. maybe work or family, but, if you don't need to consider those things there are no doubt a lot of places that beat Lima hands down. It all depends what you are looking for, and what you enjoy.

Beeep
Yeah ulterior motives because a lot of places do not hide you like Peru, hands down. Why else settle in Peru LOL. All you gotta do is marry a Peruvian Princess Abra cadabra you citizenship and hidden. Poof gone.
Btw You or anyone want to share those 'ulterior motives?"
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:00 pm

69roadrunner wrote:Yeah ulterior motives because a lot of places do not hide you like Peru, hands down. Why else settle in Peru LOL. All you gotta do is marry a Peruvian Princess Abra cadabra you citizenship and hidden. Poof gone.
Btw You or anyone want to share those 'ulterior motives?"


haha LOL... I doubt anyone will talk about these motives. However: if you read the new immigration law you will see Peru is not hiding you anymore from anything. It was turned into a police state, at least on paper (yeah I know laws and reality are two things in Peru however it is always a better feeling to not have these police state laws on file!).

And yes Panama is freaking hot, that's why I'm not there. However it is an example of foreigner friendly country. You CAN make favorable laws for foreigners and it will not collapse your country. Do you see the RE market in Panama blowing up because of expats investing 300k? Nope... a 300.000 investment in Panama will get you some serious real estate, not this kind of junk real estate like Peru.

Climate is always an issue as you say. I do not advocate Panama for everybody. I just point out there is no bargain value in Peru.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby Alan » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:32 pm

I have a Chinese friend here. In the last 4 years, 12 of his family members have followed him here to settle. Business is good for them, and property prices are relatively cheap compared to China. He is in and out of migrations all the time as he helps his family members, and his take is the same as yours regarding the immigration laws: it is getting tighter. His own theory is that restrictions are getting tighter because of the avalanche of migrants from Venezuela. I have no idea if that idea holds water or not.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:47 pm

Alan wrote: His own theory is that restrictions are getting tighter because of the avalanche of migrants from Venezuela. I have no idea if that idea holds water or not.


NOT true... the new immigration law was enforced on Peru by European Union! In trade of for Peruvian getting visa-free access to EU. Eu just do not want their nationals to live in Peru as tourists. Believe me, that's the real reason... you cannot stay anymore in Peru and be like tourist, not owe taxes etc... it is ALL just about money.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby asgp » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:02 pm

Last time I checked I was here in Peru. South America. This is not the first world.

It is a nonsense compare a country like Peru or Argentina or Chile with the US.

Come on.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:05 pm

The problem is: they are recently giving lots of administrative power to the authorities. To dangerous, corrupt and unreliable authorities. It should not be like that.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby SilverbackPeru » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:42 pm

mrsteak wrote:
SilverbackPeru wrote:I do love the nicer parts of Lima with it's modern apartments, nice parks but these are just tiny pockets in a city of ten million everything outside of those pockets is rubbish although there's no difference between Lima in that respect with places like Manchester which is a ugly place as well.


but do you really have so much pollution in Manchester? Do you have so many cars smoking like a chimney? Places can be ugly but still have some quality of life. Lima is ugly AND polluted like hell. So what's the point to live there?

Once you get your pulmonary cancer you will rethink this point!


Well most of your northern England cities aren't pretty but the poor parts of them are still a world apart from the worst areas of Lima. The tram system in Manchester was extremely good.

Limas transport and roads are terrible.

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