Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Answers to your qestions about moving to, and living in, Peru,
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eugene.in.peru
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby eugene.in.peru » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:55 pm

mrsteak wrote:
SilverbackPeru wrote:Mmmm not too sure about that Adrian. There's very little change in England in council tax and utility bills since I left in 2009 and since I've returned. Council tax is still about the £100 -£120 mark. Although the biggest change has been the crash in house prices since we voted for brexit with house prices dropping by 25%. A two bedroom apartment in the centre of town can easily be bought now for as little as £40'000 to £50'000. Food has gone up a bit since Brexit but even then it's pretty affordable. The finding a full time job is what is really hurting folks.

I have to agree most every day products haven't changed much at all in Lima but house prices and rents did sky rocket since 2009. I don't think house prices will crash either but at the same time can you really write it off that it won't happen? Most high income jobs are in natural resource jobs and when i left a lot of people were worried about their jobs due to the slow down in business. Hopefully things will pick up again.


Well you see! In GB the RE prices dropped significantly. Now ask any RE agent in Lima, they will tell you the prices will rise. There is huge denial of reality among Peruvians and people living in Peru :evil: My point is: RE market in Peru is an unstable market. It will react stronger to shocks than lets say GB. In my opinion it is set up for a major crash. if you own RE in Peru, SELL it now. Do not wait. Invest your money into markets that have crashed. Rent out your overseas property and live in Peru from the rent. After it crashed, buy back cheap property (if you still consider living in Peru). There is nothing about hate or like Peru, just being practical about investment. I would do that in any other country.


mr.steak - what overseas markets are you referring to? Spain has crashed but is there a slightest sign of recovery? One can remember Japan and how long it took them to get their economy back. How many years do I have to wait for crashed RE prices to recover? And how much rent are we talking about from a simple single family home in the overseas markets?


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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby eugene.in.peru » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:59 pm

toughrider wrote:Mr. Steak,

did you ever venture outside Lima?

You'll be amazed when you leave Lima. There are so many beautiful, safe and clean cities and towns in Peru.
I lived in the country side for 6 years.

Food was cheap, housing was cheap. It was safe. No stress. Waking up in the morning and heard the birds singing.
Very little traffic. I drove a motorbike.

I had a new built 3 bed home which I bought for $30000.
I left the door of my house unlocked day and night and never had been anything stolen.

Where was that? and is it still like that? I am tired of Lima but I need another Peruvian city to exile to? Is there a city in Peru with:

1. little traffic
2. trees, parks, no garbage in the streets
3. less pollution, clean air, fresh produce
3. close to major body of water yet warm to swim
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:48 pm

eugene.in.peru wrote:
toughrider wrote:Mr. Steak,

did you ever venture outside Lima?

You'll be amazed when you leave Lima. There are so many beautiful, safe and clean cities and towns in Peru.
I lived in the country side for 6 years.

Food was cheap, housing was cheap. It was safe. No stress. Waking up in the morning and heard the birds singing.
Very little traffic. I drove a motorbike.

I had a new built 3 bed home which I bought for $30000.
I left the door of my house unlocked day and night and never had been anything stolen.

Where was that? and is it still like that? I am tired of Lima but I need another Peruvian city to exile to? Is there a city in Peru with:

1. little traffic
2. trees, parks, no garbage in the streets
3. less pollution, clean air, fresh produce
3. close to major body of water yet warm to swim


yeah I wonder where it is.... maybe some cottage in the jungle?

My observation is that outside of Lima it is even much worse. More retarded. You may find less traffic however the problems remain the same (lack of driver education, cars smoking like a chimney etc). I do not think there is any other place than Lima, Arequipa and Cuzco that a western foreigner would ever consider to live in. These 3 are very bad places to live but still the best in Peru (if you need e.g. a laptop. hardware, replacement parts and so on, forget it outside of these 3 cities). In any case it is getting worse all over Peru. Economic crack down creates delinquency all over the country.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:52 pm

eugene.in.peru wrote:mr.steak - what overseas markets are you referring to? Spain has crashed but is there a slightest sign of recovery? One can remember Japan and how long it took them to get their economy back. How many years do I have to wait for crashed RE prices to recover? And how much rent are we talking about from a simple single family home in the overseas markets?


ALL countries that developed RE bubbles HAVE crashed (economy crashed OR the RE crashed with implications for the economy). There is no exception. And Peru will follow, soon.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby toughrider » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:09 am

fanning wrote:https://peru21.pe/economia/indice-big-mac-dolar-peru-deberia-s-2-37-12156 2012
http://www.monedasdevenezuela.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Cuadro-Comparativo1.jpg 2017

So in 2012 a Bigmac costed US$ 3.71 and now in 2017 only US$3.24

So according to the Bigmac index there was deflation, no inflation in the last 5 years ..


I wouldn't even eat that like cardboard tasting spongy bread filled with decaying rotting meat if they offered them for free.
It's also prepared by people with dirty finger nails and warts who cough and sneeze while they are preparing it.

http://www.myproana.com/index.php/galle ... ald-purge/
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:00 am

toughrider wrote:I wouldn't even eat that like cardboard tasting spongy bread filled with decaying rotting meat if they offered them for free.
/

That's why I only buy it for scientific reasons (to measure the inflation) and then dump it into WC. :mrgreen:
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby gringolandia » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:43 am

mrsteak wrote:
eugene.in.peru wrote:mr.steak - what overseas markets are you referring to? Spain has crashed but is there a slightest sign of recovery? One can remember Japan and how long it took them to get their economy back. How many years do I have to wait for crashed RE prices to recover? And how much rent are we talking about from a simple single family home in the overseas markets?


ALL countries that developed RE bubbles HAVE crashed (economy crashed OR the RE crashed with implications for the economy). There is no exception. And Peru will follow, soon.


Define bubble. And no, "houses are more expensive than I can or want to pay for" is not a good definition.

Most of the time the word "speculative" is attached to make it clear that we're talking about bubbles caused by speculation. In other words, during a speculative housing bubble people start buying homes not as a place to life, but as investment vehicles to make money.

In most housing bubbles around the world this is clearly what was happening. As soon as you hear every idiot on the street talking about how easy it is to get rich by flipping houses you know the bubble is ready to pop (though bubbles tend to last longer than any rational person expects).

I'm no expert on Peruvian real-estate but my general experience is that people are not flipping houses to get rich here. There may be a "buy now before you get priced out" element to this market here that perhaps drives people to stretch a bit more than they normally would to finance their home, but I don't think it generally extends to people buying multiple homes to sell them for a profit (though of course that happens to some extent everywhere all the time).

Peru is very lopsided as far as distribution of wealth. There are a lot (a *LOT*) of poor people in Peru, and a pretty decent sized middle class, but it can not be forgotten that even with just a few percent of rich people that is still a lot of people. So there is definitely a market for very expensive homes, and the growing middle class provides a market for people that are desperate for nice (seeming, at least) homes even if they are still a bit of a stretch. So there are reasons for housing prices to continue higher without reaching speculative bubble levels.

Another factor is the extremely low property tax rates in Peru. In the US, if you downsize from a large home to a condo when your kids grow up, you're very likely to sell the larger property because the taxes will ruin you otherwise. Here in Peru, I know people who have downsized yet they keep their large houses (which now sit vacant until perhaps one of their kids decide to use it) because there is just no reason to sell. It costs almost nothing to just let it sit there vacant forever.

Also, the mortgage rates here are pretty high. In the US during the bubble anyone could get a 3% mortgage with only 5% down as long as they could fog a mirror, but here in Peru I believe the rates are still more like 8-10%, and that's with a significant down payment.

So my personal thinking is that there is no speculative bubble here in Peru. Housing prices went down for a few years, but that seems to be turning around a bit now. That just seems like the normal ebb and flow. If a flaming socialist were to take over the government then that could rapidly drive property values into the ground, but that would just be political upheaval and wouldn't have anything to do with a speculative bubble.

I could certainly be wrong. I'm mostly basing this on my personal experiences and not on any in depth study of Peruvian real-estate, so my experiences could be different from those of others.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:28 pm

gringolandia wrote:So my personal thinking is that there is no speculative bubble here in Peru. Housing prices went down for a few years, but that seems to be turning around a bit now. That just seems like the normal ebb and flow. If a flaming socialist were to take over the government then that could rapidly drive property values into the ground, but that would just be political upheaval and wouldn't have anything to do with a speculative bubble.


The bubble is driven by the banks. Pump and dump. The high mortgage rates are a signal of a non-sustainable market. It will fall like domino. You do not need to believe me. Just wait and see.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby gringolandia » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:25 pm

You continue to demonstrate, Mrsteak, that you don't understand basic economic concepts, nor can you formulate a coherent argument.

The rates in Peru have been fairly steady over many years. They never dropped precipously as they did in the developed world, so how can the "high" rates be indicative of a bubble.

Indeed it was the insanely low rates that were indicative of a bubble in the developed world.

But don't worry, i'm not trying to comvince you. I'm posting so others will see some sense.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby Alpineprince » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:53 pm

The mortgage rates have been high in Peru the last 15 years I have lived here! In 2005 I had a 14.5% builders loan as I could not get a mortgage thru a bank. Years later I got a 15yr mtge thru Banco Continental for 8.5% in my Peruvian Wife's name. In 2012, I got a private mortgage from the USA. Have since paid off all mortgages and will only deal in cash from now on. Friends/clients that come to visit from other parts of the world are always amazed at how low the prices are here in Miraflores. I find $2,000 a square meter to be reasonable compared to other Capital cities in Latin America. I remember on this forum many years ago people were saying we were in a bubble and prices were going to crash. I said then I thought prices could get to $3,000 a square meter. Obviously, my prediction back then was wrong!
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby Alpineprince » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:04 pm

gringolandia wrote:You continue to demonstrate, Mrsteak, that you don't understand basic economic concepts, nor can you formulate a coherent argument.

The rates in Peru have been fairly steady over many years. They never dropped precipously as they did in the developed world, so how can the "high" rates be indicative of a bubble.

Indeed it was the insanely low rates that were indicative of a bubble in the developed world.

But don't worry, i'm not trying to comvince you. I'm posting so others will see some sense.

I need to correct you on one point! Pre-bubble bursting rates in the USA were about 6% and only declined to 3% once the bubble burst. I took out a liar's loan in 2001 at 6.75% to buy condo in NYC. I sold for exactly double my money in 2004 and started buying in LIma in early 2005.

You can see rates here :http://www.freddiemac.com/pmms/pmms30.html
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:09 pm

Alpineprince wrote:
gringolandia wrote:You continue to demonstrate, Mrsteak, that you don't understand basic economic concepts, nor can you formulate a coherent argument.

The rates in Peru have been fairly steady over many years. They never dropped precipously as they did in the developed world, so how can the "high" rates be indicative of a bubble.

Indeed it was the insanely low rates that were indicative of a bubble in the developed world.

But don't worry, i'm not trying to comvince you. I'm posting so others will see some sense.

I need to correct you on one point! Pre-bubble bursting rates in the USA were about 6% and only declined to 3% once the bubble burst. I took out a liar's loan in 2001 at 6.75% to buy condo in NYC. I sold for exactly double my money in 2004 and started buying in LIma in early 2005.

You can see rates here :http://www.freddiemac.com/pmms/pmms30.html


Alpineprince: you did it exactly right! Now you should already have sold your assets in Peru and invested into other buyer's markets :mrgreen: Failure to do so, will get you caught cold! I assume you know that.

gringolandia: I wrote the high mortgage rates are a sign of a unsustainable market. The question is not how high were the rates lets say 15 years ago, instead the question is: how many people were getting these toxic mortgages 15 years ago and now? And I predict: a market driven by many people taxing toxic mortgages (aka suicide mortgages) is headed to crash.

In fact I can only shake my head how naive many writers here apparently are. You can paint your reality beautiful but at some point you will have to go through a reality check. And the reality check is: in a country with average wage of 400 USD there is no way that a real estate market can maintain such bloated RE prices. No matter what the middle class is. The so called middle class will soon see diminishing returns from their investments. It is a spiral down. There is no stable RE market in a country with unstable laws and no real inflation control (I mean really control and not dumping lame news at the folks that inflation was 2%).
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby gringolandia » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:55 pm

mrsteak, if you have any evidence of a high number of toxic mortgages, please provide it. That sort of thing is publicly available, so if it exists and you try to find it you will. I doubt very much the number of toxic mortgages is high, but you're welcome to prove me wrong.

Please be aware that I actually predicted the housing crisis in the US and made money off of it by buying puts. So your observation of naivety is... amusing.

There were plenty of mortgages sold at far less than 6% before the housing crisis. I don't know what the average rates were, but I know for a fact from direct experience that there were people getting mortgages far lower.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby SilverbackPeru » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:14 am

If the housing market were to crash it wouldn't be the cost of the houses that is the problem. Most people can only afford to pay for these houses if they are working in mining. If all of a sudden the mining industry dries up due to a lack of demand from say China then people lose their jobs. It would be the finding work that pays the same as a mining job to keep paying the mortgage on time that would see people broke and lose their homes, leading to a devaluing of the housing market.

Most mining jobs depend on demand from China, China needs materials to mostly supply manufactured goods to North American and European Markets. Can you honestly say that the North American and European markets are really stable at the moment? Can anyone right off a slow down in Chinese economic growth? If you know for sure that any of these aren't going to be effected then you can say it's not a bubble in Peru. Just look what Brexit is doing to British house prices at the moment, prices down by 25% and expected to keep on dropping.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby gringolandia » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:51 am

Yep, plenty of ways housing prices can tumble even if there is no speculative bubble.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:15 pm

SilverbackPeru wrote:If the housing market were to crash it wouldn't be the cost of the houses that is the problem. Most people can only afford to pay for these houses if they are working in mining. If all of a sudden the mining industry dries up due to a lack of demand from say China then people lose their jobs.


Lot of mines mine precursors for building materials - guess for whom - for peruvian construction industry.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:48 pm

You can use google maps + street view to see all the places in Peru. I did not find any place in Peru that has any acceptable infrastructure and build quality :shock: Everything has these sticking iron bars, dirt, dust, broken roads, hordes of homeless dirty dogs with flies etc etc... all look the same.

If you find a place that is not like that you can post the maps link here, I would be pleased.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby SilverbackPeru » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:25 am

The plague of iron bars and poor brick work can be an eye sore to any Peruvian urban area, even in the more well off parts of the city you will find someone who wants to avoid paying more tax by saying his home is still not complete. It would be nice if the better districts actually brought in a tax for not having your building complete in richer areas that way you would have areas free of the building site look. The iron bars, bad brick work, poorly connected electric cabling and rubbish are what really makes me hate Peru, it somehow manages to destroys the spirit to live all day and every day while I lived there.

There are plenty of areas in Lima that are nice,with lots of great buildings from old interesting colonial houses to new apartments and Lima is very good at doing small parks for community areas and modern shopping zones. I always thought La Molina was an extremely nice place to live, on the other side mountains away from the chaos that is the rest of Lima, althought it is a nightmare to commute from. Las Casuarinas is another nice spot with amazing views over Lima. The area is still under development so there is a lot of empty building plots still but any of us would be happy to live there.

However even in a nice area you can only have to walk around the corner and you end up in a place that looks like a total dump, which is generally on the main traffic routes. But as Alan said in a previous comment on another thread Peru is really improving. The amount of development that has taken place over the past 10 years is visible for those of us that have lived here for a while and it will continue to improve If the economy keeps on being stable. Another problem with finding a really nice place in Lima is the price. You are going to have to have deep pockets to afford to live in these places!
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby SilverbackPeru » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:57 am

There's a lot of good points about living in Peru, but the cost of living isn't one of them. Just as an example, a place I pass while working most days is on the market. Six bedroomed house Alpine style house, two living rooms, three bathrooms, one study and a large garden on the market for £370'000. How much would you have to pay for a house like this in Lima? A million? A million and a half? There's small but very modern three bedroom apartments on sale in La Molina for the same price as this!
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:00 am

SilverbackPeru wrote:However even in a nice area you can only have to walk around the corner and you end up in a place that looks like a total dump, which is generally on the main traffic routes. But as Alan said in a previous comment on another thread Peru is really improving. The amount of development that has taken place over the past 10 years is visible for those of us that have lived here for a while and it will continue to improve If the economy keeps on being stable. Another problem with finding a really nice place in Lima is the price. You are going to have to have deep pockets to afford to live in these places!


Not only the dump... the air is unbreathable everywhere in Lima. Casuarinas gets the smell of burning tyres and garbage from SJM, it is just over the hill. And the prices sux. With 1/3 of the money you get really nice real estate mostly everywhere around the world (only Monaco, Miami Beach, NY and Zurich are more expensive than Lima, this is a LOL ).
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:15 am

SilverbackPeru wrote:There's a lot of good points about living in Peru, but the cost of living isn't one of them. Just as an example, a place I pass while working most days is on the market. Six bedroomed house Alpine style house, two living rooms, three bathrooms, one study and a large garden on the market for £370'000. How much would you have to pay for a house like this in Lima? A million? A million and a half? There's small but very modern three bedroom apartments on sale in La Molina for the same price as this!


Is this house in UK or Switzerland? :mrgreen:

Well unlikely you will find this building quality in Lima, not even for $ 1.5 million. There is just NO raw material in Peru to build this type of house. Or you would need to import bricks, doors, windows, tiles, etc... it would cost you far more to build it in Peru. Did you ever see how bad are the bricks in Lima? They are not properly burn in the oven, they are not of same size/shape etc... the problem just starts at the roots.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby SilverbackPeru » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:53 am

mrsteak wrote:
SilverbackPeru wrote:There's a lot of good points about living in Peru, but the cost of living isn't one of them. Just as an example, a place I pass while working most days is on the market. Six bedroomed house Alpine style house, two living rooms, three bathrooms, one study and a large garden on the market for £370'000. How much would you have to pay for a house like this in Lima? A million? A million and a half? There's small but very modern three bedroom apartments on sale in La Molina for the same price as this!


Is this house in UK or Switzerland? :mrgreen:

Well unlikely you will find this building quality in Lima, not even for $ 1.5 million. There is just NO raw material in Peru to build this type of house. Or you would need to import bricks, doors, windows, tiles, etc... it would cost you far more to build it in Peru. Did you ever see how bad are the bricks in Lima? They are not properly burn in the oven, they are not of same size/shape etc... the problem just starts at the roots.


I just finding myself laughing to myself sometimes when you see the prices of certain things back home in the U.K and how much it would cost in Peru and then I remember all the struggles in just every day living in Lima because of the price of things. I needed storage shelving for the office once and remember that it wasn't stocked anywhere in any of the hardware stores in Lima and the only place you could get it was from dealer next to the worst part of La Victoria and that it cost a fortune. I walked into a Wilkinson store and there was shelving for £20 and I just stood there laughing to myself like a right muppet. I usually laugh the most when I've got a small indian meal from the take away for £3 and then remember those terrible 6-8 soles meals I had to put up with down there as well!

Yeah those god awful bricks they usually use down there, the brick that is almost not a brick because there are basically cardboard thin and most hollow. You see them making all the new apartments with those bricks and then just covering all the bad workmanship up with plaster. If only covering up all of Lima's problems were that simple!!

I do disagree with the quality of some of those expensive houses though, I've seen proper breeze blocks for building being used and not cheap ones and there is some really good quality wooden window frames in some of the buildings. It's just you look at some other buildings being advertised and the poor building work just sticks out like a sore thumb, from those horrible concrete kitchen and bathroom units to the bad iron window frames. I can only image the difficulty getting the good building materials just adds to the inflated price. Maybe the safety of the location is another factor.

There can be some really nice positives about living in Peru and even dare I say it Lima, but it's the difficulties of every day life like traffic, getting things to work properly and sometimes how the locals behave that just grind you down.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:09 pm

SilverbackPeru wrote: I usually laugh the most when I've got a small indian meal from the take away for £3 and then remember those terrible 6-8 soles meals I had to put up with down there as well!


You can eat for 4€ across all Europe. You just need to know the local places. There is no point for Peru as it is already more expensive than parts of western & south Europe...

SilverbackPeru wrote:Yeah those god awful bricks they usually use down there, the brick that is almost not a brick because there are basically cardboard thin and most hollow.


The bricks are as hollow as the brick makers in Lima :mrgreen: most of craftsmans in Lima are really hollow. This is my conclusion after seeing all the build/installation quality in Lima. In our apartment there were really geniuses at work. The highlights were:

1) glue porcelain sockle tiles onto kitchen furnitures with mineral glue (as used for walls), instead of using silicone / polyurethane

2) when installing the water heater they have put the grounding wire onto the *plastic* water pipe, LOL (I could understand it if we had iron pipes... it would at least make some sense even if not technically correct). But really man.... copper wire onto plastic water pipe? What do have these guys in the brain? Chicharon?

3) electricity cables were just twisted together without any joints (not even twist on caps, without talking about Wagos), with the result that our flat mostly burned due to oxidated copper wire connections...

the list is endless....
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby toughrider » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:23 pm

mrsteak wrote:You can eat for 4€ across all Europe. You just need to know the local places. There is no point for Peru as it is already more expensive than parts of western & south Europe...


Here in Switzerland, the only place you can eat for 4 euros is out of a trashcan.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby eugene.in.peru » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:38 pm

toughrider wrote:
mrsteak wrote:You can eat for 4€ across all Europe. You just need to know the local places. There is no point for Peru as it is already more expensive than parts of western & south Europe...


Here in Switzerland, the only place you can eat for 4 euros is out of a trashcan.


Starbucks coffee costs same here as in more developed countries, but should I worry? I've been to many expensive cities and the issue is that you pay the tourist price, so saying I can get a cheap small indian meal home vs. some fried garbage for same price here in Lima, is not fair, as you've lived there for a while to know where to get that good meal. Locals are happy with 9sol meals, menu lunches that are delicious, and filling.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby toughrider » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:54 pm

eugene.in.peru wrote:Starbucks coffee costs same here as in more developed countries, but should I worry? I've been to many expensive cities and the issue is that you pay the tourist price, so saying I can get a cheap small indian meal home vs. some fried garbage for same price here in Lima, is not fair, as you've lived there for a while to know where to get that good meal. Locals are happy with 9sol meals, menu lunches that are delicious, and filling.


Restaurants that are located in tourist areas obviously are more expensive as they pay more rent. The quality of their food is often lower than the (cheaper) restaurants located of the beaten track.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:31 pm

toughrider wrote:
mrsteak wrote:You can eat for 4€ across all Europe. You just need to know the local places. There is no point for Peru as it is already more expensive than parts of western & south Europe...


Here in Switzerland, the only place you can eat for 4 euros is out of a trashcan.


Is it at least delicious? :mrgreen:
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:50 pm

One more remark about the new immigration law:

the new law makes provisions for all accommodation providers (be it hotels, hostels, private owners) to provide the migraciones with data of all guest lodged at their properties. All data has to be remitted now to migraciones, like name, birth date, passport number, date arrived etc etc. It basically turned Peru into a police state. Do not ever think about overstaying and being in an exposed place (that means having any type of rental contract that is on your name, be it for days or months etc). You might still go unconcerned if you live with someone else and all property is on his/her name....

So be warned!
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby SilverbackPeru » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:18 pm

toughrider wrote:
eugene.in.peru wrote:Starbucks coffee costs same here as in more developed countries, but should I worry? I've been to many expensive cities and the issue is that you pay the tourist price, so saying I can get a cheap small indian meal home vs. some fried garbage for same price here in Lima, is not fair, as you've lived there for a while to know where to get that good meal. Locals are happy with 9sol meals, menu lunches that are delicious, and filling.


Restaurants that are located in tourist areas obviously are more expensive as they pay more rent. The quality of their food is often lower than the (cheaper) restaurants located of the beaten track.


The cheapest places aren't the restaurants. Even in Miraflores you have to know where the secret La Menu joints are, the places where you go into someone's house to eat the meal. Like cheap food speak easy's! A secret door to a restaurant you never knew existed! Those are the cheap spots.

I have to admit I'm not a fan of Last Menu restaurants. Definitely over priced for what you get even if you are only paying 6 soles.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby toughrider » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:34 am

SilverbackPeru wrote:I have to admit I'm not a fan of Last Menu restaurants. Definitely over priced for what you get even if you are only paying 6 soles.


The Chinas offer best value for money.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby SilverbackPeru » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:21 am

toughrider wrote:
SilverbackPeru wrote:I have to admit I'm not a fan of Last Menu restaurants. Definitely over priced for what you get even if you are only paying 6 soles.


The Chinas offer best value for money.


Yep agree there, but they can be a bit of a luxury item when you are on a Peruvian wage and having to eat like a Peruvian. My budget was five to six soles for dinner during the work breaks and there doesn't leave you with a great deal of options.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby mrsteak » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:23 am

SilverbackPeru wrote:luxury item when you are on a Peruvian wage and having to eat like a Peruvian. My budget was five to six soles for dinner during the work breaks and there doesn't leave you with a great deal of options.


The summary is: either you have a western wage paid from outside of Peru and then you can eventually live cheaper than in a mayor western city (maybe at 80-90% of the cost), OR you have to live as an average Peruvian on average peruvian wage and then everything in Lima is again unaffordable to you. Far less affordable than living on an average wage in any western city.
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Re: Why I think Peru is one of the worst countries to live

Postby Formidable 1 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:28 am

Here's a book you Peru haters should read.
101 Reasons to be Proud of Peru by Mr. LIP

https://www.amazon.com/101-Reasons-Be-P ... 6034526019

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