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No one seems to know?

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:03 am
by woodchuck
Recently in "expat information" I posted a question about my renewal US passport.
I went to Migraciones to update my new address on my CE & was informed I had to pay a FINE for apparently not registering my new passport # (the agent called it a "tax").
The fee to register a new passport # (renewal, lost, stolen) is apparently 19.40 soles but the FINE is a monthly amount of 41.50 for 2018 & 42 soles for 2019 (that's quite a penalty percentage!)
Alan was kind enough to research this & was unsuccessful; he usually is spot on.
Does anyone have any info on this situation that could eventually affect every expat?

Re: No one seems to know?

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:32 am
by woodchuck
I have continued to try to find answers to my post & I believe I have succeeded.
Immigration law was changed in March 2017 by Legislative Decree No. 1350.
This turned into Supreme Decree No. 007-2017-IN *Rules of Procedure".

From the Migraciones web site discussing fines:
3. Not updating your personal information on your Foreign ID Card (Carné de Extranjería) within 30 days after the change took place (change of domicile, civil status, employer, etc.).
In 2017, this fine was 40 soles, now in 2019 - 42 soles a MONTH!
A new passport # would be considered an "update of personal information".
My new passport was stamped by Migraciones to show my personal information was updated & FINE paid.

Hope this helps other expats so they are not surprised at Migraciones when making changes on their CE.

Re: No one seems to know?

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:30 pm
by 69roadrunner
Thanks. Good job. Good to know I will be sure to keep my info updated. You da man!!!
G'day
Cheers

Re: No one seems to know?

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:29 pm
by bigdaddy
Nice, investigative work there, woody.
That should be a sticky note in the forum for anyone that runs into the same problem.

Re: No one seems to know?

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:42 am
by woodchuck
Just trying to be a good expat & share my experiences with others.
I feel the fine is quite excessive versus the minimal cost to comply with the law.
Just another "money grab" by a government that has all the power to do so.

Re: No one seems to know?

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:42 am
by windsportinperu
Woody,

Did the US Consulate in Lima inform you that you have to update the Number of your passport at Migraciones ? and if not doing it, have to pay fines ?

Re: No one seems to know?

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:32 am
by windsportinperu
Very good the information given by WoodChuck

I have found the reglamento (regulation in english) obtained from Migraciones:

""c) Por no actualizar la información contenida en el carné de extranjería. La multa equivale al 1% de la UIT por cada mes sin efectuar la actualización""

Traslating it means: you have to pay 1% of the 2019 UIT (4200 soles) = 42 soles / month for not updating the information of your carnet de extranjeria"

https://busquedas.elperuano.pe/normasle ... 1502810-4/

Not updating it during 1 year = 12 months x 42 soles = 504 soles !

P.S. UIT is increased every year. During 2018 it was 4,000 soles, The penalty was 40 soles / month

Re: No one seems to know?

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:01 pm
by Formidable 1
You both deserve gold stars for your efforts.
Bravo!
Cheers!

Re: No one seems to know?

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:02 pm
by windsportinperu
Formidable 1 wrote:You both deserve gold stars for your efforts.
Bravo!
Cheers!


Thanks Formidable :)

Re: No one seems to know?

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:21 pm
by woodchuck
NO!
When I picked up my renewal passport, the US Embassy did not advise me of having to register my new # with Migraciones or I would be subject to a MONTHLY FINE.
When I notified them of this they told me basically "We are not responsible for advising/interpreting Peruvian law...".
I hope they change their attitude & advise US expats when they have a new passport # they need to contact Migraciones.
Embassy jobs have great pay & great benefits - including all paid US & Peruvian holidays.
Maybe they should stop operating like a typical US bureaucratic agency & provide professional/useful services to us.

Re: No one seems to know?

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:37 pm
by captmilkshake
woodchuck wrote:NO!
When I picked up my renewal passport, the US Embassy did not advise me of having to register my new # with Migraciones or I would be subject to a MONTHLY FINE.
When I notified them of this they told me basically "We are not responsible for advising/interpreting Peruvian law...".
I hope they change their attitude & advise US expats when they have a new passport # they need to contact Migraciones.
Embassy jobs have great pay & great benefits - including all paid US & Peruvian holidays.
Maybe they should stop operating like a typical US bureaucratic agency & provide professional/useful services to us.

Why on earth would any US agency be responsible for advising you or anyone of ANY foreign laws. They have enough trouble enforcing American laws.

Re: No one seems to know?

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:40 am
by windsportinperu
I agree with WoodChuck

Being updating about the Law and Regulation related to Migration, is part of the work that must be done by The Consulate and or The Embassy

Informing to their citizen about these regulations is also part of their work . At the moment of giving the New Passport, It will only takes some few extra seconds to say :

"you must update the new number of your passport at Migration within the next xxx days , if not , you have to pay 42 soles per month as a fine"

Re: No one seems to know?

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:13 am
by 69roadrunner
windsportinperu wrote:I agree with WoodChuck

Being updating about the Law and Regulation related to Migration, is part of the work that must be done by The Consulate and or The Embassy

Informing to their citizen about these regulations is also part of their work . At the moment of giving the New Passport, It will only takes some few extra seconds to say :

"you must update the new number of your passport at Migration within the next xxx days , if not , you have to pay 42 soles per month as a fine"

I have a feeling you will not find that, "you must update the new number of your passport at Migration within the next xxx days , if not , you have to pay 42 soles per month as a fine", anywhere in our constitution.
Cheers

Re: No one seems to know?

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:28 pm
by Udo
I returned from the U.S. in January where I renewed my passport. Upon arrival in Peru, they stamped my new passport with the date of entry. I live in Trujillo and went to local Migraciones here yesterday. Much to my dismay, the local bureaucrat told me that I must secure an appointment online. He also said there would be no monthly fine, even though over 30 days had passed? Sure enough, I went to the Migraciónes website and a notice popped up saying that effective the 22nd of February, any minor modifications to your data (like new passport number) must be done by appointment in Lima. In a time when the Venezuelans are supposedly getting an Interpol office of convenience opened in Trujillo, now I have to travel to Lima to make any minor data change? Please say it ain't so.

Re: No one seems to know?

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:12 pm
by Slippin' Jimmy
Udo wrote:I returned from the U.S. in January where I renewed my passport. Upon arrival in Peru, they stamped my new passport with the date of entry. I live in Trujillo and went to local Migraciones here yesterday. Much to my dismay, the local bureaucrat told me that I must secure an appointment online. He also said there would be no monthly fine, even though over 30 days had passed? Sure enough, I went to the Migraciónes website and a notice popped up saying that effective the 22nd of February, any minor modifications to your data (like new passport number) must be done by appointment in Lima. In a time when the Venezuelans are supposedly getting an Interpol office of convenience opened in Trujillo, now I have to travel to Lima to make any minor data change? Please say it ain't so.


Happy travels!
Cheers!

Re: No one seems to know?

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:10 pm
by woodchuck
Jimmy as you may have realized by now, customer service is a major issue in all of Peru.
It would appear you do have to come to Lima, but the process is very simple if you don't have to pay a FINE!
For those interested, here is the latest response I have had from Migraciones (a great example of poor customer service):

"This is in response to your March 4 email in which you request reimbursement for fines assessed by the Government of Peru. We regret that you were assessed these fines and that Migraciones’ actions caused you to suffer a financial hardship. For this event and in the future, please be aware that we cannot act either as a legal agent or advisor on Peruvian immigration matters or processes. While we look to provide U.S. citizens with general guidance, individuals are responsible for knowing and complying with Peruvian laws and regulations."

Re: No one seems to know?

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:16 pm
by 69roadrunner
woodchuck wrote:Jimmy as you may have realized by now, customer service is a major issue in all of Peru.
It would appear you do have to come to Lima, but the process is very simple if you don't have to pay a FINE!
For those interested, here is the latest response I have had from Migraciones (a great example of poor customer service):

"This is in response to your March 4 email in which you request reimbursement for fines assessed by the Government of Peru. We regret that you were assessed these fines and that Migraciones’ actions caused you to suffer a financial hardship. For this event and in the future, please be aware that we cannot act either as a legal agent or advisor on Peruvian immigration matters or processes. While we look to provide U.S. citizens with general guidance, individuals are responsible for knowing and complying with Peruvian laws and regulations."

First of all you are not a customer of Peru. Peru is selling nothing and you are buying nothing. Peru requires you FOLLOW! their laws. It is not their responsibility to inform you of all their laws.
You seem to be American. In America and I assume in all countries, "ignorance of the law is no EXCUSE!"
Cheers

Re: No one seems to know?

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:50 am
by woodchuck
I use the word "customer" when I should probably say "consumer".
The attitude of the US Embassy is what concerns me; they could care less about this issue that could affect every expat in some way.
The Embassy has an abundance of staff & could easily designate at least one to keep up on Peruvian laws that relate to expats.
I wonder how the other Embassies (UK, Canada, Australia, Spain, etc.) handle this issue?

Re: No one seems to know?

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:22 am
by Formidable 1
woodchuck wrote:I wonder how the other Embassies (UK, Canada, Australia, Spain, etc.) handle this issue?


The same as Peru.
It's like roadie said "ignorance of the law is no EXCUSE!"