Peruvian men and household chores

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anuta
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Peruvian men and household chores

Postby anuta » Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:40 pm

Whenever, I try to ask my bf to help with some household tasks such as for example washing dishes (sometimes!), he looks at me as if I had two heads. He thinks that because he works outside and pays for the family expenses (if I want something extra for me and it´s not cheap, I buy with my savings), I should be in charge of the baby and the household alone.

He even refuses to commit to baby relate tasks such as bathing or putting baby to sleep, when he does it, its to help, but it will not be his task. And forget about changing diapers. only sometimes and only when not too dirty if you know what I mean. And of course, the guy doesn´t know what it is to have an interrupted sleep (our baby still wakes up a few times/night), because he has to go to work the next day and has to rest on week-ends, so he can work well....

He says that he needs to concentrate on his job and well, me, on mine, so if I don´t produce (i.e. apt is in disorder, or food not ready when he comes, no matter what the excuse), he´s not happy. According to him, since he´s a breadwinner, I have to be the support, i.e. provide food, clean shirts, not bother him with too many problems. Of course, that´s how his mother is....for the whole family of 5 kids. And according to my sister-in-law, he´s better than his brother, because at least he helps sometimes.

I´m wondering to what extent this attitude is the norm in Peru ? I met a couple of women here with one small child who say that they are so tired that they don´t want any more kids. Maybe that´s why so many people, even those with not much money, who get household paid help.


David

Postby David » Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:06 pm

Never met a good woman yet that does not know how to control her man.

You picked him! :lol:

Anyway have you explained to him that your job is one that is 24hrs. a day 7 days a week?

If he were half a man he would want to help you out as a matter of pride and respect for the great job you do raising his offspring!!!

As for getting up in the middle of the night, if you don't have an outside job I'd say you should be getting up.

In my situation I work nights and my wife works days so I can always go back to sleep in the AM so it is me that takes the responsibility of getting up to mind the baby.

Good luck in training him, sounds like your going to need it.

I'd say attack his sense of pride, show him that he can be so much more then what his brothers are.
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Re: Peruvian men and household chores

Postby karinita » Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:26 pm

Anuta wrote:Whenever, I try to ask my bf to help with some household tasks such as for example washing dishes (sometimes!), he looks at me as if I had two heads. He thinks that because he works outside and pays for the family expenses (if I want something extra for me and it´s not cheap, I buy with my savings), I should be in charge of the baby and the household alone.

He even refuses to commit to baby relate tasks such as bathing or putting baby to sleep, when he does it, its to help, but it will not be his task. And forget about changing diapers. only sometimes and only when not too dirty if you know what I mean. And of course, the guy doesn´t know what it is to have an interrupted sleep (our baby still wakes up a few times/night), because he has to go to work the next day and has to rest on week-ends, so he can work well....

He says that he needs to concentrate on his job and well, me, on mine, so if I don´t produce (i.e. apt is in disorder, or food not ready when he comes, no matter what the excuse), he´s not happy. According to him, since he´s a breadwinner, I have to be the support, i.e. provide food, clean shirts, not bother him with too many problems. Of course, that´s how his mother is....for the whole family of 5 kids. And according to my sister-in-law, he´s better than his brother, because at least he helps sometimes.

I´m wondering to what extent this attitude is the norm in Peru ? I met a couple of women here with one small child who say that they are so tired that they don´t want any more kids. Maybe that´s why so many people, even those with not much money, who get household paid help.



Yes Anuta, it is the norm. Maybe not ALL Peruvian men but most. It's part of the Peruvian culture. Men work, women clean, look after kids, change nappies, do the shopping, do the finances, discipline, educate, try to look sexy for them, WORK, etc etc etc.......

I don't agree with it, and I"m not even a feminist!

This is one of the reasons why I did not want to marry a Peruano.

That mentality even rubbed off at home when I was growing up here in Australia, as much as my mum tried to make things equal for my brother & I to help out with the house work I still ended up doing most of the cleaning! ANd mum would ask me many more times to help out, which used to frustrate me! but at least she still got my brother to do some house work. (I heard Greek mothers are worse, part of many cultures I guess, and that mentality starts off at home through mothers, which breeds spoilt men).

I am bringing my kids up (boy & girl) to do equal amount of housework.
That way when my son grows up he will not "expect" that just bc his woman is "woman" he does not have a part in house work or nappy changing. I don't want him to frustrate his wife. Although I must admit, my Aussie husband hardly ever changed our kids nappies, he just could not stomach it! but I do not expect my husband to clean up after he comes home from a hard days work, it wouldn't be fare on him, but then again, he does not expect me to do everything either, he contributes to the point where i have to tell him to relax, but he still makes me feel like I'm not obligated to do it all by myself, in other words, I don't get frustrated with him.

Talk to your bf, tell him how you are feeling, cry if you have to, without fighting with him.

All the best.
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Postby Chiclayo gringo » Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:40 pm

It is definitely part of the rural culture here in the north, although I think not to the extreme you describe. In the smaller villages especially the division of gender roles seems to be very strict.

Tom
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Postby mammalu » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:03 pm

Yes, it is true. I saw it first hand with my Peruvian father and my three brothers. I hope the new generations of peruvian men show some improvement. :cry:
Stand with anybody that stands RIGHT. Stand with him while he is right and PART with him when he goes wrong." ! Abraham Lincoln
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Postby JoshS » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:18 pm

i'm married to a peruvian woman, she's the best woman i ever had. She's so helpful with all the house chores, 85% of them.
If I were staying home, unemployed or just being house dad with kids I'd be doing pretty much the same things things you are doing now. it seems pretty fair to me from what you've described.
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Postby anuta » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:30 pm

JoshS wrote:i'm married to a peruvian woman, she's the best woman i ever had. She's so helpful with all the house chores, 85% of them.

[/quote]

Your woman does 85% of chores, but I do 100% and you think it´s fair ? I understand why latin women like north american men, I´m starting to seriously regret being involved with a Peruvian.

JoshS wrote:If I were staying home, unemployed or just being house dad with kids I'd be doing pretty much the same things things you are doing now. it seems pretty fair to me from what you've described.
Josh


When I didn´t have kids and had a job, I thought the same. Once you have children, you realise that it´s not as easy as it seems....
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Postby tupacperu » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:41 pm

Not only in Peru but also in America. I help around the house when I am compelled to do so (LOL) , When I feel like it.
My job is to bring home the money. I. If we are to share the chores then my wife can work and we will go 50/50 on all things. I am old fashion and so is my wife (Peruvian). She takes care of the house and I take care of bring in the money. She is not denied anything she ask for. She is in school now, but she can work and have a career if she pleases. But I refuse to have a woman brow beat me into chores. I wash dishes help clean house when I feel it necessary.

Sounds macho, that is why I like living outside of the USA :-).
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Postby karinita » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:53 pm

tarollins wrote:Not only in Peru but also in America. I help around the house when I am compelled to do so (LOL) , When I feel like it.
My job is to bring home the money. I. If we are to share the chores then my wife can work and we will go 50/50 on all things. I am old fashion and so is my wife (Peruvian). She takes care of the house and I take care of bring in the money. She is not denied anything she ask for. She is in school now, but she can work and have a career if she pleases. But I refuse to have a woman brow beat me into chores. I wash dishes help clean house when I feel it necessary.

Sounds macho, that is why I like living outside of the USA :-).


Lol! I love your honesty! :wink:

That's fine if your wife is happy with your macho ways, but Anuta is not happy, she's just had a baby, she's far away from her own family in a foreign country, she's got a bf that looks at her as if she's strange when she asks him for a helping hand, it worries me that she can develope post natal depression. It's an aweful thing to have. It happens to many mums out there & this is one of the reasons why, lack of support. Maybe she's not copeing as well as she should. Her bf needs to pull his weight a little so she can cope, before it's too late, things could just get worse if he doesn't realize it, but being Peruvian & bc of the way he's been brought up it's hard for him to understand.

She should seriously sit down and talk to him about this. I really wish her all the best.
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Postby tupacperu » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:59 pm

To be fair and maybe it is the macho in me. When my wife works I still pay the bills and she does the chores around the house, but she gets to keep her check. So in my world it balances out.

She does not complain nor do we have discussion regarding chores. I like to cook so sometimes I will spring a dinner on her. But my feeling is marriage or relationship should not be an obligation. DO what you do best and bring it into a relationship.

And most guys (including me) when single may clean house once a week or wait until the chores are critical before acting.
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Postby anuta » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:13 pm

tarollins wrote:Not only in Peru but also in America. I help around the house when I am compelled to do so (LOL) , When I feel like it.
My job is to bring home the money. I. If we are to share the chores then my wife can work and we will go 50/50 on all things. I am old fashion and so is my wife (Peruvian). She takes care of the house and I take care of bring in the money. She is not denied anything she ask for. She is in school now, but she can work and have a career if she pleases. But I refuse to have a woman brow beat me into chores. I wash dishes help clean house when I feel it necessary.

Sounds macho, that is why I like living outside of the USA :-).


And how often do you feel compelled to help around the house ? LOL

YOur wife has a 5-6 year old who´s not even yours (so maybe you don´t feel his your responsibility), she can send him to school and do whatever she wants and I have a 1 year old who glued to me all the time and doesn´t sleep through the night. A little different. If I had no kids, I would do everything around the house, if I didn´t work. And I don´t get to buy whatever I want, I´dont even have time to go get a manicure/pedicure for example. We went on vacation because my visa was expired and I bought myself a leather jacket out of my savings. So even you sound more fair. :roll:

Ohh, and did I mention that sometimes he refuses to serve food himself ? I might be feeding the baby, and he would sit and wait for me to serve the food. He says that if the food is not on his plate, it´s as if it wasn´t there, doesn´t matter that I went to do groceries, brought it to the second floor (and the baby), cooked, washed dishes, all while watching the baby....
Last edited by anuta on Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Claudia1973 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:17 pm

This is a typical feminist styled question.

Housework and shopping is for women. Maintenance and paying the bills is for men. Training up the children is for the men.
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Postby anuta » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:24 pm

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Postby anuta » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:25 pm

Claudia1973 wrote:This is a typical feminist styled question.

Housework and shopping is for women. Maintenance and paying the bills is for men. Training up the children is for the men.


Mruffolo is this you ? This is YOUR opinion and it´s not what I asked for. Thank you.

Yes, I am a feminist and proud of it.
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Postby traveldread » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:26 pm

just my point of view.....puting all the sexist points of views aside, Anuta.....chances are.. he may look onto you as a peruvian woman, and the same as you look onto him maybe, to be more westernized in his ways, id say its a culture clash , and one with pros and cons of either sex.....peruvian woman can be very dedictaed to thier homes and children, and this is what alot are content and happy to do in thier lives, and given that aspect, what else are you going to expect from a man of the same culture?....which ever way you look at it, hope you work it ...good luck
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Postby anuta » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:27 pm

David wrote:
In my situation I work nights and my wife works days so I can always go back to sleep in the AM so it is me that takes the responsibility of getting up to mind the baby.



David, you have a baby ?! Congradulations !
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Postby karinita » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:31 pm

Anuta wrote:
David wrote:
In my situation I work nights and my wife works days so I can always go back to sleep in the AM so it is me that takes the responsibility of getting up to mind the baby.



David, you have a baby ?! Congradulations !


He wasn't suppose to say anything! :shock:

I'm not saying anything either! 8)
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Postby karinita » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:37 pm

traveldread wrote:
its a culture clash....


Exactly!

This should have been concidered way before, but now they need to sort it out especially for the sake of their little one as it would be aweful for their baby to have parents seperate bc of this!
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Postby sonia » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:37 pm

Anuta, I just sent you a pm.
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Postby anuta » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:39 pm

traveldread wrote:just my point of view.....puting all the sexist points of views aside, Anuta.....chances are.. he may look onto you as a peruvian woman, and the same as you look onto him maybe, to be more westernized in his ways, id say its a culture clash , and one with pros and cons of either sex.....peruvian woman can be very dedictaed to thier homes and children, and this is what alot are content and happy to do in thier lives, and given that aspect, what else are you going to expect from a man of the same culture?....which ever way you look at it, hope you work it ...good luck


You´re right. However I talked to some professional Peruvian women and they don´t seem to be eager to serve their men. I guess they solve this problem with a live-in maid.
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Postby americorps » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:52 pm

I would say valdemond is the same, he has done the dishes perhaps twice in the last 6 months and whines when I insist he takes out the trash.

He recently got a raise at work and the first thing he asked is if we can change the housekeeper from 1 to 2 days per week.

His mother encourages him to sit down while she is here while the women cook and clean. It is all he has ever known.

I will change that..I am changing that little by little. I grew up on a farm and one of 6 grandsons, we all leaned to cook and clean and sew and it never occured to us NOT to help around the house or the farm.
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Postby Jimmy111 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:34 pm

Hmm. My wife (peruvian) does nothing. Cant cook, doesent want to clean..Well at least she takes care of our 1.5 year old daughter. Im hopeing that it makes her more responsible.
Im usually the one who does the cooking and the cleaning but I had to get a maid last year because I have been traveling alot. Its not only the men!

Anuta. my daughter would not sleep well at night either. It ended up being gas from the formula. Soy based formula took care of the problem completly. You also got to make your child sleep in its own bed. My wafe felt guilty and always brought our daughter to bed with us and every movement we made woke her up.
David

Postby David » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:45 pm

Anuta wrote:
David wrote:
In my situation I work nights and my wife works days so I can always go back to sleep in the AM so it is me that takes the responsibility of getting up to mind the baby.



David, you have a baby ?! Congradulations !




In a word yes! My wife and I thought long and hard about this and after taking a few/several classes on foster care/adoption we have joined the ranks of parents.

We've got a 1 yr. old baby girl named Guadalupe'! She is the most wonderful child I could ever want and has made me so much more then I have ever been or thought I could be.

For now we are fostering, the adoption process has just started for us and we won't know for a while yet but we have or fingers crossed that in the end we will have her for our own! So I guess this is the official announcement! she was born 3/5/08 by the way.

Now back to your problem (man). Did I say that out loud?

I am curious as to why the label of "feminist"? Why not “I feel this or that is fair and expect to be treated in such a way“?

It's hard to do at this stage of the game and you being in Peru, but education is the only answer.


Encourage him to put his lips on the babies stomach and blow that "Fart" noise. When the baby smiles and breaks out in a laugh, what person could resist that opportunity.


Changing the babies diaper is the warmest thing I could do for my little girl. It may sound strange but you bond with a child any way/time you can.

Simply tickling her little belly and making her laugh is the best feeling in the world. How he could not find that wonderful I just don't get. Helping her up after a spill, dressing her in the latest fashion and getting that smile! Hearing the words Dada! Wow! I could go on for days about the wonders of fatherhood!

I may not be Guadalupe’s biological father but I am the proudest man in the world these past several weeks.

(Thanks for asking and thanks to the members that knew and kept the secret)

David

Image

Well tried a few times to add a photo for you but didn't seem to work. Some things never change, I'm still a dummy. :shock:
Last edited by David on Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:19 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Postby traveldread » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:52 pm


However I talked to some professional Peruvian women


now we are hitting the right spot as to say....."professional Peruvian women" ie: .... women who are adapting to becoming self sufficient/minded or more so westernized by changing their cultural roles which others continue to play....peru is a developing country....this dosnt come by industries alone.....capatilisist ideas, media influences ,and so on....all these soon change peoples perceptions of life, ...guess say, give it another 50 years and maybe most peruvian woman will be more interested in employment other than home and family chores....and we be seeing more peruvian house husbands :shock:

developing????...hum ......pros and cons.....take it culture is on the con side of it.
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Postby jude » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:08 pm

Anuta wrote:Ohh, and did I mention that sometimes he refuses to serve food himself ? I might be feeding the baby, and he would sit and wait for me to serve the food. He says that if the food is not on his plate, it´s as if it wasn´t there, doesn´t matter that I went to do groceries, brought it to the second floor (and the baby), cooked, washed dishes, all while watching the baby....


If a guy pulled that on me he would be sitting hungry for a long time.

Are you planning on having any more kids? (Though by the sounds of it you have two already.) If so, how do you think that's going to work out? Is this really how you want to live your life?
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Re: Peruvian men and household chores

Postby latina_822 » Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:32 am

Anuta wrote:Whenever, I try to ask my bf to help with some household tasks such as for example washing dishes (sometimes!), he looks at me as if I had two heads. He thinks that because he works outside and pays for the family expenses (if I want something extra for me and it´s not cheap, I buy with my savings), I should be in charge of the baby and the household alone.

He even refuses to commit to baby relate tasks such as bathing or putting baby to sleep, when he does it, its to help, but it will not be his task. And forget about changing diapers. only sometimes and only when not too dirty if you know what I mean. And of course, the guy doesn´t know what it is to have an interrupted sleep (our baby still wakes up a few times/night), because he has to go to work the next day and has to rest on week-ends, so he can work well....

He says that he needs to concentrate on his job and well, me, on mine, so if I don´t produce (i.e. apt is in disorder, or food not ready when he comes, no matter what the excuse), he´s not happy. According to him, since he´s a breadwinner, I have to be the support, i.e. provide food, clean shirts, not bother him with too many problems. Of course, that´s how his mother is....for the whole family of 5 kids. And according to my sister-in-law, he´s better than his brother, because at least he helps sometimes.

I´m wondering to what extent this attitude is the norm in Peru ? I met a couple of women here with one small child who say that they are so tired that they don´t want any more kids. Maybe that´s why so many people, even those with not much money, who get household paid help.


Anuta did you try to talk to him? ask him why he doesn't really want to help?, i mean seriously sitting the both of you and talk about all differences you have, you might not think but it will also at some point hurt your relationship.
I had a Peruvian boyfriend many years ago and i must say he had the same thinking (all was because his father was a MACHO and his mother had to do all), we talked and talked until i felt it was not what i wanted from a man, so i decided to finish our relationship before it was too late for me.
In your case you already have a child in common so it makes the situation even worst as he will tell you "but you are the MOTHER, you are encharge of everything". You are both parents not only you and chores can be share as well.
Try to talk to him and you can see if the situation you are having is going to improve or not.

Good luck!!
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Postby naturegirl » Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:38 am

I don't have kids, but my husband's similar. He's started washing dishes, cleaning and taking out the trash.

Here's what I did. I stopped doing everything. I work just like he does, less hours, but I earn more :)

I let the dishes pile up
I let the garbage overflow and then when it did, I took it out, put it next to the trash can and put another bag in. But didn't take it out.
I stopped cleaning

The house got gross. Eventually he started cleaning. And when that failed, we had a cleaning lady, but had to let her go due to honesty
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Postby tomsax » Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:40 am

Anuta, Me and my wife have a little one year old so I have an idea of what you are talking about. It is really hard. I have been brought up to believe men and women are totally equal and should share chores equally.

Even I find this difficult because basically looking after a young child is so difficult compared to my job. It is so tempting to do more work at the office rather than come home and help with the chores because basically it suits me to do so. The guy basically has the power - to come back late and blame whatever. The women can never argue about how easy it is for me in comparison because she has no evidence to support her.

I don't do my full fair share because like Tarrolins by wife gives me an easy time. That doesn't make it right though. And that's me, with my enlightened attitude!

Men act like this because they can. You have to basically take that choice away.

And if you are brought up in a society that say that this is okay then it is very difficult to come to terms with the idea that you have to work harder and have a more difficult life because you have a child.

I don't think men or women are taught how hard it is to bring up children. Women learn quickly when the new arrival comes. Men are able to live in denial so they do. You just have to bring home the truth to him. It obviously hasn't worked being gentle about this so you will have to break it to him more abrubtly.

I'm afraid you just have to argue with him. It sounds like it will be a battle but you have no choice - otherwise you will suffer and so will your child. Most men can change and will if given the right "guidance" - and a stiff kick up the backside if necessary (metaphorically speaking of course).
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Postby b_ridy » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:05 am

how did i possibly miss this thread?!

*i'm getting slack.



can i ask... did u meet this man before you decided to have a baby with him? - surely he didnt completely change how much of an a-hole he is just cos u got pregnant..
i'm my experience a-holes are generally like that from birth...

i dunno. sounds stupid and simple. and maybe u've tryed it... but talk to him...
tell him the problem and how it's gonna be from then on.. and if he doesnt like it well.
that will be fine for you. because u don't like it this way..

and unless he comes up with some kind of compromise, then just do what makes you happy and what makes things work for you.. in the end it's ur life, and he's got his life...

thing is.. if u cant communicate, why did you decide to breed with this person...
if you don't like his genes, you shouldn't have multiplied them is all i'm sayin
beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy
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Re: Peruvian men and household chores

Postby rgamarra » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:07 am

Anuta wrote:Whenever, I try to ask my bf to help with some household tasks such as for example washing dishes (sometimes!), he looks at me as if I had two heads. He thinks that because he works outside and pays for the family expenses (if I want something extra for me and it´s not cheap, I buy with my savings), I should be in charge of the baby and the household alone.

He even refuses to commit to baby relate tasks such as bathing or putting baby to sleep, when he does it, its to help, but it will not be his task. And forget about changing diapers. only sometimes and only when not too dirty if you know what I mean. And of course, the guy doesn´t know what it is to have an interrupted sleep (our baby still wakes up a few times/night), because he has to go to work the next day and has to rest on week-ends, so he can work well....

He says that he needs to concentrate on his job and well, me, on mine, so if I don´t produce (i.e. apt is in disorder, or food not ready when he comes, no matter what the excuse), he´s not happy. According to him, since he´s a breadwinner, I have to be the support, i.e. provide food, clean shirts, not bother him with too many problems. Of course, that´s how his mother is....for the whole family of 5 kids. And according to my sister-in-law, he´s better than his brother, because at least he helps sometimes.

I´m wondering to what extent this attitude is the norm in Peru ? I met a couple of women here with one small child who say that they are so tired that they don´t want any more kids. Maybe that´s why so many people, even those with not much money, who get household paid help.


Wow, sounds like a play-by-play of my life after I had my second daughter.

Peruvian men are like that, it is the norm, but a nice separation by distance corrected those attitudes in my husband.

He now says, "Thank you for all you do, thank you for taking care of the girls."

When we came down here to Peru a couple of years ago he put me in tears right in front of his family.

They said, "Poor American girl!" They knew he was being machista and that the role of the Peruvian woman was not a part of my culture.

They didn't expect me to act like a Peruvian woman and I straight forward had to tell him that. "I'm not Peruvian and I will never be Peruvian."

His father is another case. He once told me, "Forget the American way! You have to iron his clothes before he goes to work in the morning, you have to make sure his food is ready when he gets home." I was thinking, "Is his dad for real? or did I just get sent back to the 1960's?!" I was steaming mad!

Anyway, I had numerous fights with my husband and it even got down to the point where I made a list of all the jobs that I perform, but do not get financially compensated for.

Just b/c he is the bread winner (like my husband) it doesn't mean that he is exempt from cleaning up after himself. Your'e not the maid, you're not his mother, you are his GF and the mother of his child.

It's the stuff that makes or breaks a relationship. To me it's a matter of showing respect for the other partner.

You probably do a lot more for him and your son than he realizes. Tell him that you feel disrespected and that all you are asking for is 5 minutes of his time to help you out with something. It's not like you are taking the skin off his back.

Anyway, I hope it works out for you. Yours is definitely not a unique case, so don't feel alone on this one.
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Postby tupacperu » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:09 am

Claudia1973 wrote:This is a typical feminist styled question.

Housework and shopping is for women. Maintenance and paying the bills is for men. Training up the children is for the men.


In short, I pay for control, both of us cannot drive the car (family), each may have their own agenda.

She can have a career, shop and make decision over her personal life. But I control education decision and the household . she can put in her opinion, but the final decision is mine. Now if she wants to be a part of the decision making she need to put in 50% of the money and work. Then I will tale on half the chores.

I am not an extremist, I change diapers and cook.



In my houshold my wife likes it that way. Yes, I do educate my kids. So, I spend time on homework and projects. She also goes to the salon and gets her nails done.



But If a women is at home and a man works I think the majority of the household responsibility falls on the woman, not saying I will not help when compelled or when asked (not demanded). I hate to be commanded to do something. Put a request in and I am ez.

That is why I believe in marriage contracts. You have to have an agreement up front, nothing left to dispute.
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Postby tupacperu » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:21 am

karyna wrote:
tarollins wrote:Not only in Peru but also in America. I help around the house when I am compelled to do so (LOL) , When I feel like it.
My job is to bring home the money. I. If we are to share the chores then my wife can work and we will go 50/50 on all things. I am old fashion and so is my wife (Peruvian). She takes care of the house and I take care of bring in the money. She is not denied anything she ask for. She is in school now, but she can work and have a career if she pleases. But I refuse to have a woman brow beat me into chores. I wash dishes help clean house when I feel it necessary.

Sounds macho, that is why I like living outside of the USA :-).


Lol! I love your honesty! :wink:

That's fine if your wife is happy with your macho ways, but Anuta is not happy, she's just had a baby, she's far away from her own family in a foreign country, she's got a bf that looks at her as if she's strange when she asks him for a helping hand, it worries me that she can develope post natal depression. It's an aweful thing to have. It happens to many mums out there & this is one of the reasons why, lack of support. Maybe she's not copeing as well as she should. Her bf needs to pull his weight a little so she can cope, before it's too late, things could just get worse if he doesn't realize it, but being Peruvian & bc of the way he's been brought up it's hard for him to understand.

She should seriously sit down and talk to him about this. I really wish her all the best.


I have 4 boys and understand post natal depression. SOmetime it is not helping out. But it is about doing nice things for you woman. Taking her out and surprising her for all the things she does around the house. A little appreciation goes a long way. I always say thanks to my wife even for a small meal or just folding clothes. I do not want my relationship to become an obligation or responsibility.

That is why I like a marriage contract, get the stuff on the table before marriage. Woody Allen: Sex relieves tension, love causes it. (lol).

Hope I am not insulting anyone and everyone has a right to live how they would like.

The fact that people decide to live together and have a baby and never marry is of real concern. There is no clear plan for the future. People who want to start a realtionship should talk first about these things, (kids, marriage, career, household chores and habits). Having a plan in life is really important, that gives you a clear vision of where everything is going. Instead some women date a guys and sleep with them a few times then ask "What are we? Where is this going? What am I to you?" These intention should be ask upfront.

Not saying this is your case Anut. Just saying a plan in life goes along way.
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Postby tupacperu » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:32 am

naturegirl wrote:I don't have kids, but my husband's similar. He's started washing dishes, cleaning and taking out the trash.

Here's what I did. I stopped doing everything. I work just like he does, less hours, but I earn more :)

I let the dishes pile up
I let the garbage overflow and then when it did, I took it out, put it next to the trash can and put another bag in. But didn't take it out.
I stopped cleaning

The house got gross. Eventually he started cleaning. And when that failed, we had a cleaning lady, but had to let her go due to honesty


Maybe I was tramatized from my previous marriage.

I worked and made twice as much. We shared 50/50 the household chores. When I began to work from home. I was doing the chores being a nice guy, so that when my wife arrived from work we could spend quality time. Far form quality time. The more I did the less she did. I became the House husband soley becasue I worked from home. Pretty soon she began working for the money OT and was never at home at a decent hours. She loved her professional life more than her marriage.

This was an experiment on my part, becasue my ex-wife had the same complaint as Anut. It show that many professional women are like professional men. The more you do the less they will do.

Never again. I found a balance. The alternative is to be single and have my way (LOL)
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Postby suavecitobro3 » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:42 am

It´s amazing how that there are feminists (MOD EDIT) on this post that are PMing each other trying to stick together in a pseudo-def con situation.

TA Rollin seems like he is the poster guy for how role play (and role playing) should be! - based on the posts he made.

A man is a man; a woman is a woman.

It worked for eons that way.

Feminism and Neo-Feminism have never been about equality (MOD EDIT)

Now with all this uber-independence and Tyra and Oprah talk shows that talk about how to deal with men when them themselves arent´even married, (MOD EDIT)

I hope that Peru retains it´s patriarchal features and not be emasculated by feminists (MOD EDIT) like all the countries in the Anglosphere are.

Shoot, that´s one of the reasons why I´m in Peru.... (MOD EDIT)

I´m glad that I don´t live in the tourists districts...if I wanted to live in the tourist district, I could have stayed in the Anglosphere accordingly.
Last edited by suavecitobro3 on Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby tupacperu » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:44 am

traveldread wrote:just my point of view.....puting all the sexist points of views aside, Anuta.....chances are.. he may look onto you as a peruvian woman, and the same as you look onto him maybe, to be more westernized in his ways, id say its a culture clash , and one with pros and cons of either sex.....peruvian woman can be very dedictaed to thier homes and children, and this is what alot are content and happy to do in thier lives, and given that aspect, what else are you going to expect from a man of the same culture?....which ever way you look at it, hope you work it ...good luck


To call someone feminist because they do not agree with a woman is like me going on a job interview and getting turned down and hollering racism (LOL). not all things between men and women have to do with feminism. It is about a contract ad agreement between parties.
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Postby suavecitobro3 » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:51 am

TÁ, in addition, it´s about how these gender roles have been working for eons, brah.

The nuclear family is stronger this way. It may not be perfect, it can lead to domestic violence and-or a plenitude of disagreements and arguments, but the kids are at least raised in a two parent home and learn the male and female traits from their parents whether they are a boy or a girl.

A boy cannot successfully be a man without being indoctrinated with mother and father of the parental level type of traits; a girl cannot successfully be a woman without being indoctrinated with mother and father of the parental level type of traits.

Examples of being properly raised in an adulto:

Boy: from mother: learns how to be considerate,
learns how clean up after himself and learns how to
cook for himself
learns how to iron and fold his clothes
from father: rebalances how to be considerate without being feeble,
learns how to clean up himself and learns how to be
how to cook for himself without being a
metrosexual meticulous or anally picky about.

Girl: from mother: learns how to be a lady,
is revalidated to show femininity including crying without the pouting and realizes how to be diplomatic even with something she doesn´t fall into accordance with.
from father: learns how to be a lady and learns how to conduct herself with there are problems from overaggressive men trying to manipulate her.

Sorry about the outformatting, guys.

Well also, I think that those gender roles work...but you got a point, you cannot scream feminism just because a woman disagrees...that´s being extreme but feminism has alot to do with how these women are nowadays
Last edited by suavecitobro3 on Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby tupacperu » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:55 am

Anuta wrote:
traveldread wrote:just my point of view.....puting all the sexist points of views aside, Anuta.....chances are.. he may look onto you as a peruvian woman, and the same as you look onto him maybe, to be more westernized in his ways, id say its a culture clash , and one with pros and cons of either sex.....peruvian woman can be very dedictaed to thier homes and children, and this is what alot are content and happy to do in thier lives, and given that aspect, what else are you going to expect from a man of the same culture?....which ever way you look at it, hope you work it ...good luck


You´re right. However I talked to some professional Peruvian women and they don´t seem to be eager to serve their men. I guess they solve this problem with a live-in maid.
.

And many professional women cannot find love ;-). Life is a trade off (let then eat cake!) .

The word Independent Woman is an oxymoron. If you are truly independent you do not need a man and you can live on your own. I can have my stuff and my place and you can have yours. and we can meet to fufill our physical needs.

Most men do not like the finality of marriage, some do, but that is why some women push their men to buy the ring and get married. If I cannot have my life my way, I would prefer to be single. The I can call the shots.

Janis Joplin: never compromise! (you come out with less than you deserve)
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Postby naturegirl » Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:13 am

suavecitobro3 wrote:I think that those gender roles work...but you got a point, you cannot scream feminism just because a woman disagrees...that´s being extreme but feminism has alot to do with how these women are nowadays


In this day and age when everyone needs two incomes to survive, they're ancient and don't work.
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Postby suavecitobro3 » Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:19 am

Mod edit
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Postby traveldread » Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:25 am

tarollins wrote:
traveldread wrote:just my point of view.....puting all the sexist points of views aside, Anuta.....chances are.. he may look onto you as a peruvian woman, and the same as you look onto him maybe, to be more westernized in his ways, id say its a culture clash , and one with pros and cons of either sex.....peruvian woman can be very dedictaed to thier homes and children, and this is what alot are content and happy to do in thier lives, and given that aspect, what else are you going to expect from a man of the same culture?....which ever way you look at it, hope you work it ...good luck


To call someone feminist because they do not agree with a woman is like me going on a job interview and getting turned down and hollering racism (LOL). not all things between men and women have to do with feminism. It is about a contract ad agreement between parties.


not sure if you saying i mentioned the word feminist....as i clearly have not

suavecitobro3 wrote:
I think that those gender roles work...but you got a point, you cannot scream feminism just because a woman disagrees...that´s being extreme but feminism has alot to do with how these women are nowadays


is basicly correct, it how it were in most modernized parts of the world 50 years ago....and we didnt get the trivas and problems in society as we have now....ie family breakdowns. demorolized family values, juvenile
crimes and so forth

Author Message
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In this day and age when everyone needs two incomes to survive, they're ancient and don't work.


thats the point, and peru is not to ancient in its culture where concerning family roles..they still exsist with many peruvians.

as i said,,,the developing of peru is changing all this ...and in my eyes ..for the worse
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Postby suavecitobro3 » Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:45 am

(puts on Axl Roses SWEET CHILD OF MINE on the EP PA system as he replies to Anuta´s PM on the board)

Ummm, where do I go from here? Righty-O, >I remember.

Anuta, you should ask before assuming. The Anglosphere is any country that has English as it´s main idiom, and that enables feminism on all levels of the judicial system, corporate, education, etc..when it uses equality and equal gay rights as scapegoat maquillaje coverups.

Not all Anglosphere countries are Anglo-Saxon populated. Look at Singapore, they are part of the Anglosphere.

Thus, Anglosphere means that...it doesn´t mean that I detest Anglo-Saxons.

After all, English is the initial idiom to spread Feminism. What language did Susan B Anthony and Gloria Steinem speak in??
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Postby anuta » Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:57 am

suavecitobro3 wrote:(puts on Axl Roses SWEET CHILD OF MINE on the EP PA system as he replies to Anuta´s PM on the board)

Ummm, where do I go from here? Righty-O, >I remember.

Anuta, you should ask before assuming. The Anglosphere is any country that has English as it´s main idiom, and that enables feminism on all levels of the judicial system, corporate, education, etc..when it uses equality and equal gay rights as scapegoat maquillaje coverups.

After all, English is the initial idiom to spread Feminism. What language did Susan B Anthony and Gloria Steinem speak in??


bro, i have no idea what you´re talking about and have no time to trying to understand what it has to do with the my original post, because my toddler needs me to play with him. sorry
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Postby suavecitobro3 » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:01 pm

Ok I´m glad that you are attending to your toddler. A lot of mothers nowadays in the Western world cannot even do that properly.

My jim hat´s off to you.

However, whenever you´re ready to come back for comprehension, I will gladly go out of my way to break it down for you.

Peace.
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Postby carlitochavarry » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:12 pm

suavecitobro3 wrote:
I think that those gender roles work...but you got a point, you cannot scream feminism just because a woman disagrees...that´s being extreme but feminism has alot to do with how these women are nowadays



is basicly correct, it how it were in most modernized parts of the world 50 years ago....and we didnt get the trivas and problems in society as we have now....ie family breakdowns. demorolized family values, juvenile
crimes and so forth


I'm more of a traditionalist and IMHO I believe the best families are the families where the woman takes control of the house and the man provides. BUT! the man should understand that even though men and women are both equal at the same time they are compliment to one another and only by both parts coming to terms of the importance of their partner's role in the upbringing of the family will be key to assure things work (Like someone previosuly stated) with that in mind, heck I woudn't mind help around the house.

I have nothing against the choice of a woman if they want to work, but I my opinion is that a babysitter or a maid will never ever come even close to the kind of care and neccesary tutoring that a mother will provide and men need to realise for that reason we are in debt with women and look at it that way.

I don't see anything wrong with how families were raised in the 60's. I think the family ties were a lot stronger back then. Now I see profesional or independent young women who don't know how to do jack in the house, they can take 2-3 hours to look good but their place is a mess (And I'm being super nice) and I wonder how this new generation will turn out. That and also now that women have joined the work force in corporate offices and being part of this, as James Brown said, men's world and studies showing women dying at an earlier age than before and more at risk of heart attacks etc
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Postby suavecitobro3 » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:21 pm

I am assuming that the woman takes control of the house as in making it her duty to make it hospitable and viable... and the man provides the income, protection, repairs, additions to the house as well as being a hobbyist (as a woman should be a hobbyist too just find spiritual balance and without pissing her man off).

Is that what you are somewhat saying, Carlito?

Otherwise, Í am feeling your post from what I have read.
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Postby traveldread » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:34 pm

suavecitobro3 wrote:(puts on Axl Roses SWEET CHILD OF MINE on the EP PA system as he replies to Anuta´s PM on the board)

What language did Susan B Anthony and Gloria Steinem speak in??



ONE WORD....C.I.A.

tust me, you would not want a debate on this with me :twisted:
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Postby tomsax » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:57 pm

Anuta, before this thread goes off in some wacky direction just to say good luck and I hope your bf sees sense soon. Not all men are selfish idiots and hopefully he will be one day be an enlightened Peruvian man (they do exist).

Many men are nostalgic for the days when they could just club a women over the head when they felt like it, but luckily most have higher aspirations too.
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Postby naturegirl » Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:15 pm

Please keep this on topic, it's about Peruvian men and helping out. Not feminisim, not which is better. Just trying to give the OP advice.
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Postby David » Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:33 pm

While I miss the days where one parent could stay home and take care of the house and the other could produce enough income to support that household, I have to ask the macho men among us.

If the shoe were on the other foot and you got to have a 24 hr a day job and your wife worked only 8-10 hrs. a day would you still feel as you do?

Many women were victims of abuse during the old days, yes in an ideal situation the man and woman take equal responsibility and equal action in raising the family. But how often are things really equal?

If it matters, in my home I am the cook most the time, we clean up about equally and my wife takes care of the baby most of the day as it stands now. (Baby is in daycare)

Once the adoption goes through we'll be taking her pretty much on an equal basis.

I know many fathers that feel left out of things when the family grows up. "Mothers get all the credit", "they don't seem to care that I worked my butt of all the time".......

The reason behind this is that mom was the one teaching, bathing, feeding, cleaning up after, nursing, educating and bonding with that child/children!

Marriage and parenting should be a partnership. If you don't respect the person you married enough to look at them as equal then you maybe should not be married.
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Postby tupacperu » Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:27 pm

It a partnership but some one has to make decisions and someone has to manage the money and someone has to clean the home etc....

My question, why such negativity or stigma with stay at home wife. There are women who find happiness in nurturing a family and there are women who like a career, there are women who chose not to have a man in their life. Everyone has a right to choose. There is no one mold for woman, just like there are none for men. But again I say, these things should be worked out before a comitted relationship , not after. Each one has a right to walk away from the table if they have compatibility issues.

Saying that, there are old school macho men (that will never change), there are gentlemen, there are players who sleep around. There are many types of men. Just got to be sure what you are getting (before hand).
I am not critizing anyone I have been married 3 times (5 years, 17 year and now 6 years now) in my life . Could not find what I wanted in a woman. So I just moved on. Why remain in a place in life where you are unhappy. You cannot change a person if they are not willing and if that is the case, you will be miserable.

I know, I have tried every combination of marriage and realtionship and what I have now works for me. And the kicker is , I work from home and we are together 24/7, which some couples would bite each others head off in these conditions. The nice thing is that we get along. We have our days, but I can say, it beats the daily arguing I had before in previous relationships. I guess to each his/her owns.

I tell my wife what a nice relationship we have , being together 24/7 and not having constant issues.

My second wife was not happy (17 years) she found that she likes her life now, without a man in her house. She would rather live alone and have her boyfirend drop over. Some people have a hard time finding happiness and trying to force it by staying woth the norm of society. You have to break with the norm and seek happiness (Life is too short)

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