Tenant and landlord responsibilities

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Tenant and landlord responsibilities

Postby anuta » Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:47 pm

We rented a furnished apt in a house last Dec. The landlady occupies the first floor and a room on the 3rd and we, the second. There are also occasional tenants on the 3rd floor. We also have a garage space.

When our landlady noticed that we don't have a car, she asked me to land her the remote control for the garage door, because hers broke and promised to give it back but never did. A couple of weeks after that, our garage door wouldn't open (we used it to pass with the stroller because it's too uncomfortable using the regular door with it). She basically turned off the switch which controls the electricity on the first floor which included our garage door (but not hers for some reason) and didn't notify us. Now, if we used the stroller, we had to enter through her garage door which was partially blocked by her car. And that also meant that there was no more light in the roofed garage (we enter the house through it), so it was really uncomfortable entering with the baby and lets say the groceries in the stroller basket and then, thy to find the grocery bags in the dark. Somehow we let it go, she's an educated woman, always oolite, always pretends to care about us and finds a good reason for all she does. But I suspect that she just wants to save money on electricity.

After a while, we requested light in the garage, she made it sound that we're the only people who objected the darkness and agreed to pay the installation of light which draws the electricity from the 2nd floor. Somehow after that, she asked the guard to turn on that light for her new 3rd floor tenants.

Ok, we kind of tolerated that.

After she had a fight with the cleaning lady (who also cleans for me), I asked her to babysit my son on days she used to work for her. Now she started requesting that she cleans the garage on those days (on my time), because the stroller supposedly dirties it.

Now everything is the apt is pretty old, and after a few months our old TV wouldn't turn on (we didn't even watch it every day). She wanted us to repair it, the guy who usually does it told us that it broke because it's old. We refused and haven't talked about it since.

A few days ago a fluorescent light bulb burned and apparently the transformator or whatever it's called, is burnt too. It's a thing that lasts for 10 years, so it's not us who wasted it in 10 months. The landlady told us that it's our responsibility because she already installed the light in the garage for us.

Our contract states that the apt has to be returned in the same state as found, but does that mean that we're responsible for fixing old staff ? We're moving in 2 months and I'm kind of worried that she might want to keep the deposit.

I'm a bit confused about whose responsibility is fixing things. In Canada, apts usually have appliances and it's the landlords' responsibility to fix them as well as anything else, that wears off and not damaged by the tenants. Of course, based on her behavior, the landlady's doesn't think like that.

How does it work in Peru ?


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Postby cajun jamie » Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:11 pm

Anuta,
It's probably best that you talk to some folks and try and get some help from a lawyer, not for the petty stuff, but to be prepared to have someone speak on your behalf to get the deposit back.

This complaint is fairly common, and it basically works like this. The Peruvian landlady basically expects that when you occupy the apartment, she washes her hands clean of the expenses, and you assume the costs of the apartment.

Yes, "usually" a landlord replaces things that break as a result of normal usage, because they are operating a business, and those repairs are part of doing business.

Here, not quite so. Many people just simply think, I own the place, you rent it, if it breaks, you fix it, I just collect the money so it costs me nothing to own while you are there.

This is why you need the lawyer, to argue the point that they are running a business and have responsibilities.

More commonly, when bulbs burn, minor things go out, the tenant replaces them if they are cheap and reasonable, whether than wait 6 months for a new light bulb from the owner.

Things like transformers and TV sets and toasters, etc., again, get a lawyer to speak on your behalf that you did not break anything, things stopped working through normal use.

Good luck.
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Postby Kelly » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:15 pm

This is why my husband has bought all new lightbulbs for all the fixtures both times we've moved. We store all the bulbs that were already in the fixtures, and put them back when we moved out and took our good bulbs with us.

I thought it was ridiculous at first - but seeing how many people have had issues over these kinds of things has made me see that my husband often has a method to his madness.

Anything we installed - a light fixture, the doorbell, a drainage pipe for the washing machine - we took it all out and took it with us when we left.
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Postby sonia » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:42 pm

We are planning on renting a furnished apartment when we arrive in Lima. Your experiences remind me how difficult it can be to be a tenant in Lima. What statements can we include in the rental contract to protect ourselves against landlords that are neither honest nor trustworthy?
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Postby Yuyis » Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:31 pm

Well, I should say: do what Peruvians do on this one! I don't know how much deposit you paid; but let's say 2 months. Well, most Peruvian tenants assume the landlord will keep their deposit. So they say: 'OK, I paid two months beforehand, so let him keep it. I don't pay the last two months rent!'
This works most of the time, because the owner can only take actions when you don't pay for three months.
I hope this helps; simply don't pay the last months.
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Make a deal

Postby antonio » Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:21 pm

In general terms, in Peru if you rent an apartment you are the responsible for the maintenance of the place where you live, but I have to agree that it’s more complicated when there is furnishing involved. For example if someone rent a furnished apartment and just after a couple of days the microwave stop working, most owners will pay for it (because it’s clear and obvious that the appliances was about to be broken), but the question is how many days did you have the TV with you (not necessary using) until it began not working ?

It’s hard to give a good advice about a contract, where there is a sort of misconception behind this. So I will take this post to the “it’s supposed to” arena

From the point of view of the landlady, It’s supposed that if you rent a furnished apartment you will give it back as you received it (and according to what I have read on this post, it’s what is written in the signed contract). So she suppose that you should fix the TV because you receive it working well

Now from your point of view. For you it’s also supposed that the landlady should fix the TV, because you think it’s too old when you receive it and was about to be broken. So you feel you have the right to say I won’t pay for fixing it.

So, who is right and who is wrong? I think you have 2 choices:

1) Fight for my rights I think are fair for me (it means search for a lawyer, not paying the last 2 months and whatever another option).. and probably this lady will do the same (try to fight for what she consider is fair for her). At the end you will probably be into an unnecessary and unwanted fight.

2) Will try to make a deal with the landlady. For example, you will pay half the cost of fixing the TV, so she will pay the another half. I hope it doesn’t sound weird, but usually this kind of negotiation works well, but you will know it works, once you try it

If I were you, I would choose the easy way and it means the less expensive and hassle-free. So I just would try to make a deal with the landlady. Before it begins, it’s good to try to recover the lost daily greetings: “hola” “buenos dias”, “buenas tardes”, etc. Try to improve the human relationship for a next future deal and then try to talk to the lady.

Also for the rest of the problems you have had with this lady, I think that most of them could be solved talking about it, instead of being so polite and letting it pass (the remote control for example)

For sure, if you don't give a solution now, she will try to discount the whole cost of fixing the TV once you decide to end the contract. So it's a call for problems.

Fortunately as I am some kind of tinkerer I know that in some cases the problem with a TV set, is just a 0.5 soles fuse. I use to diagnose all the stuff at home, the simply solutions are done by me, while the most hard to fix are sent to the technician (a problem with a flyback or the power supply for example)
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Re: Tenant and landlord responsibilities

Postby anuta » Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:14 pm

Thanks for all the replies.

Jamie, you're right. Real estate is a business yet many seem to view it as easy income. I told her in the beginning that once I leave I could recommend her apt to the expats, so that she doesn't have to pay commissions to the real estate agent, it could have been in her interest to not take advantage.

I didn't mind paying 10 soles for light bulb and I found out that the transformer is only 10 soles, so it's not a big deal, but the TV is 100 soles at least, so we'll have to see about that. But I like Kelly's husbands idea. :)

Sonia, based on what I saw on TV and on our experience with the Peruvian court, I'm not sure to what extent the contract makes a difference. I would just advice to try to see what kind of people are the owners. I know you can't always judge by the first impression, but for example, when we viewed the apt for the first time, told the landlady and the agent that we're interested and agreed on the price, another couple rang to see the apt. Instead of telling them that it's rented, they asked us to wait and showed the apt. Then they came back and said that the'll rent to the other couple, because they wanted to pay 6 months in advance to have it and offered a slightly higher price. My bf disliked that and wanted to walk away, but I was too desperate to move out from the in-laws. In theory, she was in her right to do that, but it shows her attitude towards her business (i.e. money is more important than her word). So we ended up paying 6 months in advance and the same higher price to have the place.

Another thing is reviewing the apt when you move it and letting the owner know if anything's wrong, so that they don't say that you did it.

Antonio, we have a very cordial relationship with the landlady :)
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Postby Kelly » Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:27 pm

When we moved into our current home, I took pictures of just about every surface of the house. Every crack in the wall and every loose floorboard is verified.

Our last landlady wanted to keep our deposit because of a missing corner on a brick trim around a flower bed - a piece of brick no larger than the last knuckle of my thumb, that was broken when we moved in and eventually got lost over the 3 years we lived there - and she wanted to keep $250 over it.

So, to avoid this problem in the future, i took the pictures.
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Postby antonio » Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:35 pm

but the TV is 100 soles at least


Anuta, it's so much money for just fixing an old TV

In theory, she was in her right to do that, but it shows her attitude towards her business (i.e. money is more important than her word). So we ended up paying 6 months in advance and the same higher price to have the place.


Ummm, it's a greedy attitude. I sign some contracts per year, but when I see someone greedy I prefer to search for another option

Our last landlady wanted to keep our deposit because of a missing corner on a brick trim around a flower bed - a piece of brick no larger than the last knuckle of my thumb, that was broken when we moved in and eventually got lost over the 3 years we lived there - and she wanted to keep $250 over it.


Kelly, I would only pay for it at the most 10 usd
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i had the something simular

Postby euroman » Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:32 pm

I had some problems with the owner when I was renting my local.
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Postby Kelly » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:20 am

Our last landlady wanted to keep our deposit because of a missing corner on a brick trim around a flower bed - a piece of brick no larger than the last knuckle of my thumb, that was broken when we moved in and eventually got lost over the 3 years we lived there - and she wanted to keep $250 over it.


Kelly, I would only pay for it at the most 10 usd



We didn't pay anything, and I surely wouldn't pay $10 for something I didn't break. We argued with her until she gave us our deposit back.
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Postby antonio » Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:06 am

Kelly wrote:
Our last landlady wanted to keep our deposit because of a missing corner on a brick trim around a flower bed - a piece of brick no larger than the last knuckle of my thumb, that was broken when we moved in and eventually got lost over the 3 years we lived there - and she wanted to keep $250 over it.


Kelly, I would only pay for it at the most 10 usd



We didn't pay anything, and I surely wouldn't pay $10 for something I didn't break. We argued with her until she gave us our deposit back.


Sorry, I read it wrong, I thought you were responsible for that little piece of brick. Arguing with real and indisputable arguments is one of the best ways to deal with this kind of controversy.
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Postby Kelly » Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:27 pm

Absolutely. That's why I think if you're renting, taking pictures of any damage in the house is important. Make sure there's a date stamp, and if possible, take them before you put the furniture in. Then if there's a question when you move out, you've got something to back up your word.
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Postby american_in_lima » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:20 pm

Here is what I do: I have rented many places here for business.

Tell them that your accountant needs the receipts for "el impuesto a la renta" from her. Its a 12% tax, that your landlord by law has to pay Sunat on the money every month after she receives money from you.

Tell her that you have a friend who works at Sunat that looked into it and couldn't find any payments.

Then ask for your deposit back.

That should work. You won't make any friends with that approach, but it doesn't seem that she really cares anyway.

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Postby sonia » Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:11 pm

Thank you Anuta, Kelly, Antonio, Cajun Jamie, and Yuyis, and all of you for sharing your suggestions and experiences. I will be sure to have a camera with me to photograph every single corner, nook and cranny of the place when I sign a rental agreement. Maybe I could even insist that the landlord stand by me when I take the photos and then give him a dated copy of the set.
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Postby antonio » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:43 pm

sonia wrote:Thank you Anuta, Kelly, Antonio, Cajun Jamie, and Yuyis, and all of you for sharing your suggestions and experiences. I will be sure to have a camera with me to photograph every single corner, nook and cranny of the place when I sign a rental agreement. Maybe I could even insist that the landlord stand by me when I take the photos and then give him a dated copy of the set.


Sonia you are welcome ! It's important to mention that you are not allways going to have problems while you are renting an appartment or house, all the information about is for a "just in case" situation. I have been both a tenant and a landlord in Lima and I usually have no problem, but is important to be informed. Good luck.
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Postby LauraMH » Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:33 pm

How appropriate this post is. I just learned about this topic personally today. I am from the USA. My house there is rented out through a management company. In the US you have to take care of EVERYTHING. You have to maintain it as it was when you moved in, lights, microwaves and on and on...lawn maintenance etc. So I thought it would be the same here...I found out 90/soles later that it is not the case.

The landlady told me I needed mainteance done on our water thermal thing every year and we've been here a year. She called the guy she knew and he came. I thought she was taking care of it and then he hands me a bill for 90/soles. What?

We have a great relationship and she's a sweet lady so I told her my experience and my confusion as to what was going on. She said no here I give it to you and you give it back as I gave it. You maintain it all. Nice. That is so cheap. I mean it's their investment and things such as leaking toilets (we have 2 of them) and she's been told they are old and should be replaced. This should be her responsibility. I guess I'm just shocked, but I now see from the posts that it how it works here. Lesson learned and I am glad I took photos of everything, just because but it could be helpful. So interesting. Thanks for the thoughts all.
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Postby anuta » Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:28 pm

Laura,
In Canada, the landlords are obliged to deliver the apt in a good condition. Everytime they rent, they repaint the place and fix everything, because there's a law, I believe, that obliges them to do so. I doubt there's law about the tenant-landlord responsibilities in Peru, so the owners just do what they want. My landlady also wanted us to do an annual checkup of appliances, except that our lease is only for 1 year. We didn't answer and she never mentionned it again, I thought that maybe she realised that it's an exageration. Furnished appartments are about 50$/month more expensive than unfurnished, that's 600$/year, part of it can cover depreciation and checkups.

George, I like your advice as a last resort :lol:. Our landlady didn't want bank deposits, only cash...
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Postby Kelly » Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:28 pm

George, I like your advice as a last resort Laughing. Our landlady didn't want bank deposits, only cash...


lol... When the census came through last year, ours wanted us to tell them we were relatives, and didn't pay rent :D
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Re: Tenant and landlord responsibilities

Postby StevieB » Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:01 pm

I'm so glad I found this site! I actually found this forum discussion in a search result when I was looking for something else (can't remember what now).

I'm a Canadian missionary living in Surquillo, just on the border of Miraflores. Anyway, I've been here for over 9 months now, living in the same place the whole time. I rent a huge fully furnished room in a house here, and pay $290/month for it. It includes, TV, cable, internet, my own bathroom, hot water (I've learned that's a luxury here, eh?) and share a kitchen with other people renting out the other dorm-style rooms.

That being said, I'm concerned the landlady will try keeping my deposit b/c that is exactly what she's done (or in some cases tried to do) with other people who lived here and have left since I've been here.

Case in point, an American was living here for a total of one year going to University, and left a number of months ago. Right before leaving, he went through the room with the landlady's mother (it's a couple of sisters and their mother who live downstairs and own this house). She came up with some random bullcrap for why he couldn't get the deposit back. Point of fact, she didn't even come upstairs WITH any money to give back to him, I suspect because she didn't intend on giving it to him.

So the reason? They allegedly now need to replace his mattress because he's worn it out [by sleeping on it for a whole year]. He fought and fought, but like I said, she didn't even come upstairs with any money to give back to him. Before leaving to catch his flight home, he barged into my room to warn me what had just happened, telling me they'd probably do the same thing to me, so be warned. So every time new tenants move in, I warn them too--telling them they will need to fight for their deposit back.

I'm concerned she'll try this on me b/c I am not planning on leaving any time soon--I live about 15 minutes walk from Park Kennedy, my neighborhood is relatively safe, I like this area, don't feel the rent is too high for what I'm getting, etc...But they've put a for sale sign up and are seeing what people will offer and plan on selling in the next year (lots of high rises are going up on our street, so I imagine someone will buy it, tear it down and build another), so frankly, I probably will have to leave when they sell the place, not because I decided to bolt.

What should I do in anticipation of the likelihood they'll try keeping my $250 deposit as well? This mattress thing is the stupidest thing I've ever heard--besides the fact she thinks the internet router needs to be turned off for 4 hours/day in order to "cool down' and not overheat. I couldn't find anything online about Peruvians dying from explosions of internet routers, but she insists Telefonica told her this is necessary. In fact, I've researched, asked friends in that field, asked other Peruvians if they've heard you need to turn off routers for 4 hours/day, and they insist that's weird also. In fact, it's harmful to constantly turn them of but anyway, she thinks we can't be trusted b/c it keeps getting left on (imagine that--just like they're supposed to!) and so now, her or the mother set their alarm for 1:30am or 2am and come upstairs to turn it off themselves. *sigh*

I've tried reasoning with her about the router that the constant resetting is actually harming it, not helping it, but it was to no avail and I'll never get that 45 minutes of my life back. (I told her she doesn't unplug a refrigerator for 4 hours a day so it will cool off and rest, etc...logic, and humor, nothing worked...)

Anyway, THIS is the type of family I'm dealing with. They don't seem to be reasoned with so besides prayer, I don't know what I'll need to do to get that deposit back when the time comes.

Any thoughts? Do I need to prepare to make any threats (like to take the TV if they won't give me the money) or threaten to go to the SUNAT or what recourse might I have in this situation if, as I suspect, they'll keep the deposit?

Thanks for the help, this site is a great idea!
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Re: Tenant and landlord responsibilities

Postby americorps » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:34 pm

I suspect she is part of a large string of landlords that try to rent to mostly expats that are here for a short period of time and will probably move out and have to rush back home and not have time to fight anything.

My suggestion, find a lawyer when you check out, not a good one, a cheap one will do and have them be there with you when you check out.

Don't say anything, just say he or she is a friend...

and when she tried to suck the blood out of you, mention that your friend is also a lawyer and ask her to give you the info in writing. The lawyer will be glad to remind her she is legally obligated to. If she still tries to mess with you, tell her you have given power of attorney to this lawyer and will instruct him to file a complaint with INDECOPI and the municipality.

The form from Indecopi can be downloaded and even filled out in advance..

There website is: http://www.indecopi.gob.pe/0/home.aspx?PFL=0&ARE=0
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Re:

Postby chicama » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:49 am

anuta wrote:Laura,
In Canada, the landlords are obliged to deliver the apt in a good condition. Everytime they rent, they repaint the place and fix everything, because there's a law, I believe, that obliges them to do so. I doubt there's law about the tenant-landlord responsibilities in Peru, so the owners just do what they want.


anuta, I do not know where in Canada you have rented. I have rented unfurnished apartments in both Ontario and BC. Despite the "law", landlords do whatever they want in Canada also. The so-called "Tennant Protection Act" in Ontario and the "Residential Tennancy Act" in BC give every power to the landlord to do as he or she pleases. They put the onus on the tennant to prove that something went wrong. The tennant is also responsible to follow up on everything. Those laws are designed to work that way on purpose. The last time I moved out of an appartment in Vancouver, when I was going to work in Seattle, I was told by the building manager that if I gave him the keys two weeks prior to the end of my paid tennancy term, that I would not have to finish the little cleaning up that was left to do, that I would get my deposit back in full. He even wrote it in the building log book in front of me. Then I got a letter in Seattle telling me that it took them 2 hours to clean up, and taking $120 off my deposit. So they pocketted half a month rent and $120 dollars from me. The place was perfectly clean when I left it. There was absolutely nothing practical that I could do about it given Canada's laws.

But just like there is no enforcement of law in Canada, there is no real enforcement of law in Peru. You can just overstay your tennancy by a month, if you have an issue with her charges. Let her do the footwork to get you back over the S./100 she wants from you.
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Re: Tenant and landlord responsibilities

Postby sonia » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:19 am

We just rented a furnished apartment. With furniture, linens, a washer and dryer, and eveything else in it, if the owner wants, no matter how well we will care for the things, he will always be able to find something to say has gotten used or worn, and have a ready reason to justify keeping the deposit. I just rent assuming that I won't get any deposit back, and then if I do, I'll be pleased.
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Re: Tenant and landlord responsibilities

Postby MartitaAQP » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:16 am

Reading everyone's landlord nightmares made me laugh. I am in the middle of a drag-out fight with my extremely emotional and quite illogical landlord (fortunetly, I moved...now it's time for the entrega and HOPEFULLY, my deposit) and last night she ended up banging on the windows and screaming in the streets. Her poor husband was quite embarrased but...she doesn't even have an actual complaint she is just mad I won't let her come into the apartment whenever she wants and show it to potential renters BEFORE my paid period ends.

She is passive aggressive up-til-now so i'm still hoping she gives me back my deposit. About two months ago, a pipe broke inside a wall. Supposedly, this apartment is only 2 years old, but things have broken CONSTANTLY because of the poor quality. I have replaced a lot of plumbing and electrical parts myself. This i showed her was HER responsibility because it did not result from "mal uso" as the contract specifies. She delayed a week or so, finally brought someone to break down the wall and repair it, and then asked me to forward her the next month's rent because she couldn't pay for it. I helped her out with a partial forwarding, since she was at least finally taking responsibility for it. They stuccoed up the wall but left it open and said they'd come back to replace the tiles in the bathroom and repaint the wall in the living room. 5 weeks later, I finally hear from them, but they always want to do it on weekdays when I work, so I tell them they'll have to wait and then decide I was going to move in a couple weeks and don't want to devote the time to the repair so now she's angry I "never let her in to repair it." I've tried to keep things civil, because I didn't want her to invent every excuse possible to keep my deposit (she has over $500). One of the main reasons I chose to move is because there was a major mold problem in the apartment that is throughout the walls, and has been making me sick for months. Hopefully she doesn't try to blame THAT on me. With my new place and contract, I paid more attention to details. I can't use the deposit to cover rent the last months (and they can kick me out in 2 months, 15 days) legally, but there are no furnishings and the construction is much better (brand new) so hopefully I won't have any problems.

As far as painting walls, I do not understand why anything that is NORMAL use would need to be the responsibility of the tenant (even though I did paint the old apt to try and avoid problems). in the USA, I helped a family member manage many rented properties and we always cleaned up and painted and recarpeted/floored etc.. after every tenant..it was just part of the deal. The idea that you give it back the exact same way you recieved it seems to me to negate the fact you are only RENTING and they are the property owner with interest invested in the upkeep.

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Re: Tenant and landlord responsibilities

Postby Kelly » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:56 am

And it's definitely not just here -

I have a house in Florida that I rent out, with the use of a property manager. We allowed pets, with an extra deposit. When the people moved out, the manager had the house treated for fleas and steam cleaned the carpets, and took that out of MY income from the house. A close inspection of the paperwork showed that she had ALSO kept the pet deposit to cover the extra cleaning. :S I had to fight with her to get my money back.
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Re: Re:

Postby anuta » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:22 pm

chicama wrote:anuta, I do not know where in Canada you have rented. I have rented unfurnished apartments in both Ontario and BC. Despite the "law", landlords do whatever they want in Canada also. The so-called "Tennant Protection Act" in Ontario and the "Residential Tennancy Act" in BC give every power to the landlord to do as he or she pleases. They put the onus on the tennant to prove that something went wrong. The tennant is also responsible to follow up on everything. Those laws are designed to work that way on purpose. The last time I moved out of an appartment in Vancouver, when I was going to work in Seattle, I was told by the building manager that if I gave him the keys two weeks prior to the end of my paid tennancy term, that I would not have to finish the little cleaning up that was left to do, that I would get my deposit back in full. He even wrote it in the building log book in front of me. Then I got a letter in Seattle telling me that it took them 2 hours to clean up, and taking $120 off my deposit. So they pocketted half a month rent and $120 dollars from me. The place was perfectly clean when I left it. There was absolutely nothing practical that I could do about it given Canada's laws.

But just like there is no enforcement of law in Canada, there is no real enforcement of law in Peru. You can just overstay your tennancy by a month, if you have an issue with her charges. Let her do the footwork to get you back over the S./100 she wants from you.


chicama,
in my post I was asking how things work in Peru, that was it. Not sure why you felt the need to describe one bad experience you had in Canada and generalize that just like in Peru, there's no law enforcement there.

I'm not even sure there's any law regarding the tenancy in Peru. In Quebec, where I lived, there is an association (Regie du logement du Quebec) that protects landlords and tenants. Both can file complaints there. Landlords might try to abuse (as well as tenants, I suppose), but when you threaten them with that association, they usually become very reasonable and follow the law. But that has nothing to do with my post.

I'm sorry that you didn't get 120$ from your Canadian landlord (I imagine that not being in Canada at that moment didn't make it easier for you to be able to get it back).
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Re: Tenant and landlord responsibilities

Postby anuta » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:27 pm

MartitaAQP wrote:
The idea that you give it back the exact same way you recieved it seems to me to negate the fact you are only RENTING and they are the property owner with interest invested in the upkeep.

Martha


Totally agree with that.

We are looking for an appartment right now and we saw one that didn't even had kitchen cabinets. And the owner said that if we install our kitchen cabinets and take them with us when we move out (IF we take them back, she said, I guess she wouldn't have minded if we left them :D ) we would have to leave the kitchen the way it was, empty with all the holes patched. I'm just wondering, who out there is moving in and out with their own kitchen cabinets ?
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Re: Tenant and landlord responsibilities

Postby anuta » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:38 pm

StevieB wrote:Anyway, THIS is the type of family I'm dealing with. They don't seem to be reasoned with so besides prayer, I don't know what I'll need to do to get that deposit back when the time comes.

Any thoughts? Do I need to prepare to make any threats (like to take the TV if they won't give me the money) or threaten to go to the SUNAT or what recourse might I have in this situation if, as I suspect, they'll keep the deposit?

Thanks for the help, this site is a great idea!


I don't know if you're planning to stay in Lima for a while, but maybe it's better for you to start looking for a different place ? I think that 290$ for a room is not cheap for Surquillo. For that price you can get a 2 bd appartment ( you probably don't need one, just giving you an idea).

If not possible, can you not pay the last month ?

If our landlady tries something with us next month, we'll try the lawyer trick and I'll post the results. :D
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Re: Re:

Postby chicama » Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:08 pm

anuta wrote:chicama,
in my post I was asking how things work in Peru, that was it. Not sure why you felt the need to describe one bad experience you had in Canada and generalize that just like in Peru, there's no law enforcement there.

I'm not even sure there's any law regarding the tenancy in Peru. In Quebec, where I lived, there is an association (Regie du logement du Quebec) that protects landlords and tenants. Both can file complaints there. Landlords might try to abuse (as well as tenants, I suppose), but when you threaten them with that association, they usually become very reasonable and follow the law. But that has nothing to do with my post.

I'm sorry that you didn't get 120$ from your Canadian landlord (I imagine that not being in Canada at that moment didn't make it easier for you to be able to get it back).


You are right. It turns out that Peru's Ley del Inquilinato (Tennancy Law) was voided in 1991 for all properties, except for verifiable slums (i.e., dwellings classified by the municipality as "tugurios"). That was around the same time government companies were being privatized, and the country was being "opened up" to capital. So now whatever contract you signed is your Tennancy Law. However, if you overstay without paying, you can only be evicted with a court order, which cannot be issued until one of you has at least tried to solve the issue through conciliation. Aparently it can take up to two years and a lot of money to get an eviction issued. In that case, you have leverage with your landlady to get her to be reasonable:

http://www.peruavisos.com/noticiasperu/ ... leres.html

Consulta 32 in http://www.pj.gob.pe/servicios/consulta ... pagina=797

As for Canada, there have been better times for tennants in BC and Ontario when the NDP were in office. When the Conservatives and the Liberals took office they re-wrote the laws on behalf of landlords. Quebec, despite their bizarre language laws, seems to always have had decent and reasonable social programs such as government paid child care and free health care (no longer the case in Ontario, Alberta and BC) and tennant rights.
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Re: Tenant and landlord responsibilities

Postby iskndarbey » Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:52 pm

StevieB wrote:This mattress thing is the stupidest thing I've ever heard--besides the fact she thinks the internet router needs to be turned off for 4 hours/day in order to "cool down' and not overheat. I couldn't find anything online about Peruvians dying from explosions of internet routers, but she insists Telefonica told her this is necessary. In fact, I've researched, asked friends in that field, asked other Peruvians if they've heard you need to turn off routers for 4 hours/day, and they insist that's weird also. In fact, it's harmful to constantly turn them of but anyway, she thinks we can't be trusted b/c it keeps getting left on (imagine that--just like they're supposed to!) and so now, her or the mother set their alarm for 1:30am or 2am and come upstairs to turn it off themselves. *sigh*

I've tried reasoning with her about the router that the constant resetting is actually harming it, not helping it, but it was to no avail and I'll never get that 45 minutes of my life back. (I told her she doesn't unplug a refrigerator for 4 hours a day so it will cool off and rest, etc...logic, and humor, nothing worked...)


This seems to be a ubiquitous Peruvian belief, on the order of the belief that drinking cold drinks will cause you irreparable damage. In apartments in Miraflores that are marketed for foreign exchange students, the landlord will often keep the router on 24 hours a day, but in Chiclayo that is heresy of the first order. I use the wireless signal from the apartment above mine, paying S/.30 a month of the S/.80 total, and the owner constantly turns it off when she leaves the house and when she goes to bed. I told her that it only costs an average of S/.4 in electricity to keep it on 24 hours a day for an entire month, which I'd be happy to pay, but she told me if she did that it would burst into flames and kill us all.

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