Ceviche, how do you know...?

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timothy
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Ceviche, how do you know...?

Postby timothy » Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:37 am

I have gone thru older posts just to see if this has been discussed before, but nothing definitive.

Does citrus juice effectively disinfect raw seafood? Has there actually been any research on this relationship? I know that the citrus juice is supposed to cook the seafood, but does it kill off the bacteria or whatever else may have taken up residence on the seafood?

During my visits to Ecuador, Peru, and Chile, I have tried and enjoyed a wide variety of the many, many local variations of ceviche. Other than a few of these concoctions being chili-peppered beyond my tolerance, I loved them all. But I have to admit that along the way my travels were slowed down temporarily due to frequent trips to ye old porcelain throne (bano). To the point where I now add one more step to my own recipe.

I know the 'ceviche purists' will wail to the heavens, but now I take all of the raw seafood ingredients, and just for a couple of seconds, immerse them in scalding hot water. So far, I have had zero bad reactions.


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Re: Ceviche, how do you know...?

Postby Guiri » Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:16 pm

Well...you have to boil the things at least for a minute , otherwise they arent disinfected :D

Haha...found this:
http://www.kitchendaily.com/read/will-l ... nd-seafood
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Re: Ceviche, how do you know...?

Postby street legal » Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:25 pm

timothy wrote:I have gone thru older posts just to see if this has been discussed before, but nothing definitive.

Does citrus juice effectively disinfect raw seafood? Has there actually been any research on this relationship? I know that the citrus juice is supposed to cook the seafood, but does it kill off the bacteria or whatever else may have taken up residence on the seafood?

During my visits to Ecuador, Peru, and Chile, I have tried and enjoyed a wide variety of the many, many local variations of ceviche. Other than a few of these concoctions being chili-peppered beyond my tolerance, I loved them all. But I have to admit that along the way my travels were slowed down temporarily due to frequent trips to ye old porcelain throne (bano). To the point where I now add one more step to my own recipe.

I know the 'ceviche purists' will wail to the heavens, but now I take all of the raw seafood ingredients, and just for a couple of seconds, immerse them in scalding hot water. So far, I have had zero bad reactions.



I wouldn't be too worried about it. Frequent bowel movements are good for the system.
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Re: Ceviche, how do you know...?

Postby teamoperu » Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:52 am

I have wondered the same as the OP. But isn't sushi uncooked seafood too? Ironchefchris, you must know the answer to all this?
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Re: Ceviche, how do you know...?

Postby panman » Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:37 am

There's only one way to eat fish, never mind blanching it in scalding hot water.
Batter it, fry it, and serve it with chips, mushy peas, tomatoe sauce, a couple of rounds of bread and butter, plus a glass of your favorite beer.
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Re: Ceviche, how do you know...?

Postby ironchefchris » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:24 am

Technically, su-shi is vinegared rice, so raw fish is not necessary for sushi. You could put peanut butter and jelly (or sliced hot-dog) on a bed of vinegared rice for the kids and call it sushi. When fish is used it is often raw, but sometimes cooked, depending on the fish. We used to make a 'Philadelphia Roll' - salmon with cream cheese fried in tempura batter. I prefer the fish raw myself, sometimes skipping the rice altogether (sashimi). Fatty tuna (toro) is my favorite. Now I've got a craving. I've never focused on the rawness of the fish, just the butter like texture.
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Re: Ceviche, how do you know...?

Postby KenBE » Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:42 pm

I don't know about the citrus, but the aji they use in ceviche does kill germs I think. One of the main reasons why many native cultures used aji/chile was to kill parasites and germs:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/19 ... 053307.htm

So if you want to eat a "safe" ceviche tell them you want one with "mucho aji". :D
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Re: Ceviche, how do you know...?

Postby teamoperu » Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:21 pm

Interesting informative posts, thanks guys, I love learning.
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Re: Ceviche, how do you know...?

Postby timothy » Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:15 pm

Foods -- Seafood

Can acid be added to raw fish to make them safe to eat?

I came across the following:

FoodSafetySite.Com

The practice of adding an acid to fish to be make it safe to eat is not uncommon. The product resulting from this process is called ceviche. Technically, one can add acid to fish to decrease its bacterial load. However, there is no guarantee that adequate numbers of harmful bacteria will be destroyed. At present, there are no consumer guidelines available about how to safely use acid as a means to preserve raw fish in this manner. In the mean time, one follow these guidelines.

Many consumers enjoy raw or lightly marinated seafood products such as sashimi, sushi, ceviche, gravlax, cold-smoked fish and raw shellfish. Eating raw seafood (and raw meat, poultry, or dairy products), has a greater food safety risk than eating properly cooked products. Follow these tips to reduce this risk: * Use commercially frozen fish for making sashimi, sushi, ceviche, gravlax, or cold-smoked fish. Freezing seafood to -31ºF for 15 hours or to -10ºF for seven days eliminates risk from parasites that may be present in the fish. * Be certain that clams, oysters, and mussels come from certified shellfish growing waters. Refrigerate until use.
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Re: Ceviche, how do you know...?

Postby ironchefchris » Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:24 pm

I grew up on the ocean and a bay and from about 14-18 worked my summers as a commercial bayman - a clam digger. My friends and I used to take lunch breaks at about the same time and we all just shucked some clams and slurped 'em down fresh out of the bay. One guy liked them with ketchup, some with a bit of lemon juice, some just straight up. Good eatin'. Nothing bad ever happened to any of us over those four years (and all the previous years I consumed raw shellfish) but I wouldn't take the chance today. That bay isn't as clean as it used to be.
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Re: Ceviche, how do you know...?

Postby timothy » Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:59 am

ironchefchris wrote:I grew up on the ocean and a bay and from about 14-18 worked my summers as a commercial bayman - a clam digger. My friends and I used to take lunch breaks at about the same time and we all just shucked some clams and slurped 'em down fresh out of the bay. One guy liked them with ketchup, some with a bit of lemon juice, some just straight up. Good eatin'. Nothing bad ever happened to any of us over those four years (and all the previous years I consumed raw shellfish) but I wouldn't take the chance today. That bay isn't as clean as it used to be.



Ketchup on clams? My God!

Well, probably better than mustard.
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Re: Ceviche, how do you know...?

Postby crazytacoperu.com » Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:00 pm

Don't eat raw mariscos, even with Lemon. Their digestive system contains undigested $*)**@( , shrimp as well. Good chefs cook the mariscos before putting in your cebiche. You have to develop a tolerance to the bacteria, but if you eat too much you could develop an allergy.
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Re: Ceviche, how do you know...?

Postby captcosmic » Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:22 pm

Gnathostoma spp. are found throughout the world, but have been reported in humans primarily in tropical and subtropical areas. Gnathostomiasis is most commonly diagnosed in Asia, particularly in Thailand, other parts of Southeast Asia, and Japan. The parasite has also been found in other areas, including South and Central America and Africa, and the diagnosis is increasingly recognized in these areas. (Quoted from the CDC)
The only way to kill Gnathostoma is cook the fish to at least 145 degrees F internally. This stuff is pretty serious stuff, even kill you. Saying that I have eaten ceviche in ever corner of Lima and never gotten sick, yet. :)
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Re: Ceviche, how do you know...?

Postby timothy » Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:15 am

captcosmic wrote:Gnathostoma spp. are found throughout the world, but have been reported in humans primarily in tropical and subtropical areas. Gnathostomiasis is most commonly diagnosed in Asia, particularly in Thailand, other parts of Southeast Asia, and Japan. The parasite has also been found in other areas, including South and Central America and Africa, and the diagnosis is increasingly recognized in these areas. (Quoted from the CDC)
The only way to kill Gnathostoma is cook the fish to at least 145 degrees F internally. This stuff is pretty serious stuff, even kill you. Saying that I have eaten ceviche in ever corner of Lima and never gotten sick, yet. :)



Great post ! Yes, lots of nasty food-critters in parts of Asia and mostly from under-cooked or raw seafood or creatures like snails and fresh water shellfish. The Thais like raw, butterflied fresh water shrimp soaking in crushed fresh garlic. If your Significant Other orders this, you'd better dig in too, or else sleep on the sofa.

Just taking your seafood and very briefly dipping it in boiling water can make the ceviche a lot more safe. I have been to a few places in the States that are serving ceviche and they all do this for health reasons. If I take sushi or sashimi home, I use the trick of sticking it in the microwave for 10 seconds. This supposedly kills the surface bacteria but does not cook the sushi.

It might work on ceviche ?

Knock on wood, I have yet to become ill as a result of ceviche.
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Re: Ceviche, how do you know...?

Postby chi chi » Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:29 am

timothy wrote:
Just taking your seafood and very briefly dipping it in boiling water can make the ceviche a lot more safe. I have been to a few places in the States that are serving ceviche and they all do this for health reasons. If I take sushi or sashimi home, I use the trick of sticking it in the microwave for 10 seconds. This supposedly kills the surface bacteria but does not cook the sushi.

It might work on ceviche ?

Knock on wood, I have yet to become ill as a result of ceviche.


Buy fish that's still alive so you know that it's fresh.

I bought this morning living lobsters.
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Re: Ceviche, how do you know...?

Postby timothy » Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:34 pm

chi chi wrote:
timothy wrote:
Just taking your seafood and very briefly dipping it in boiling water can make the ceviche a lot more safe. I have been to a few places in the States that are serving ceviche and they all do this for health reasons. If I take sushi or sashimi home, I use the trick of sticking it in the microwave for 10 seconds. This supposedly kills the surface bacteria but does not cook the sushi.

It might work on ceviche ?

Knock on wood, I have yet to become ill as a result of ceviche.


Buy fish that's still alive so you know that it's fresh.

I bought this morning living lobsters.



Many, probably most species of fish have parasites and/or worms when they are alive. Fresh is better in regard to bacteria, but not worms. The ocean fish most affected are bottom dwellers like cod and haddock and grouper and snapper and corvina. The kinds of fish generally more safe to eat raw are those that travel the oceans on the top of the water, migratory types like tuna and salmon.

For all of by British friends: If you want an ultimate gross-out, go to your local fish shop and ask to look at a fresh (non frozen) piece of cod. Pick it up off the tray in the cooler and look along the bottom side into a light. You will see dozens of live little thread worms ! But not to worry, they all die when fried up in your fish & chips! Probably adds to the taste...
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Re: Ceviche, how do you know...?

Postby chi chi » Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:47 pm

timothy wrote:Many, probably most species of fish have parasites and/or worms when they are alive. Fresh is better in regard to bacteria, but not worms. The ocean fish most affected are bottom dwellers like cod and haddock and grouper and snapper and corvina. The kinds of fish generally more safe to eat raw are those that travel the oceans on the top of the water, migratory types like tuna and salmon.

For all of by British friends: If you want an ultimate gross-out, go to your local fish shop and ask to look at a fresh (non frozen) piece of cod. Pick it up off the tray in the cooler and look along the bottom side into a light. You will see dozens of live little thread worms ! But not to worry, they all die when fried up in your fish & chips! Probably adds to the taste...


I don't like raw fish. I am not a fan of sushi or cebiche.

I rather eat smoked, fried or steamed fish.
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Re: Ceviche, how do you know...?

Postby timothy » Thu Jan 01, 2015 11:36 am

chi chi wrote:
timothy wrote:Many, probably most species of fish have parasites and/or worms when they are alive. Fresh is better in regard to bacteria, but not worms. The ocean fish most affected are bottom dwellers like cod and haddock and grouper and snapper and corvina. The kinds of fish generally more safe to eat raw are those that travel the oceans on the top of the water, migratory types like tuna and salmon.

For all of by British friends: If you want an ultimate gross-out, go to your local fish shop and ask to look at a fresh (non frozen) piece of cod. Pick it up off the tray in the cooler and look along the bottom side into a light. You will see dozens of live little thread worms ! But not to worry, they all die when fried up in your fish & chips! Probably adds to the taste...


I don't like raw fish. I am not a fan of sushi or cebiche.

I rather eat smoked, fried or steamed fish.



I really want to thank you for sharing that with me. You don't know how many nights I went without sleep wondering how you prefer your fish.
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Re: Ceviche, how do you know...?

Postby chi chi » Thu Jan 01, 2015 11:42 am

timothy wrote:I really want to thank you for sharing that with me. You don't know how many nights I went without sleep wondering how you prefer your fish.


I am glad to hear that you can sleep well from now on. :D
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Re: Ceviche, how do you know...?

Postby timothy » Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:57 pm

I heard that there are High Paid opportunities for flight attendants near Malaysia.

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