Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

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Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby Alan » Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:03 pm

Here is an interesting opinion piece written by a US citizen and author who once lived in Lima, and now resides with his Peruvian wife in Wisonsin, regarding his recent experiences raising two bilingual children there.

http://bit.ly/2gLiztv


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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby ironchefchris » Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:07 pm

Interesting article. I liked the writer's attitude. Many Americans are so strange when it comes to speaking any language other than English.

"There is a strange hysteria in this country about a person’s right to speak only one language, and a misconception that people who are bilingual somehow infringe upon that right. People perceive a non-English conversation as an assault."

Things are sounding as if they're getting ugly in the US. I've read reports where the occurrence of hate crimes is even greater than it was just after 9/11.

https://www.ft.com/content/61e34e7a-b0d ... 87335499a0
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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby jumpinjack » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:32 am

Alan wrote:Here is an interesting opinion piece written by a US citizen and author who once lived in Lima, and now resides with his Peruvian wife in Wisonsin, regarding his recent experiences raising two bilingual children there.

http://bit.ly/2gLiztv

Sounds like a mass hysteria is setting in and sweeping the globe. If the sun don't shine, blame it on the Donald.
This is an example of a few people too eager to assign powers to the Donald he doesn't have, asking folks speak English is Donald's fault, really?
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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby ironchefchris » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:57 am

I didn't see in the linked article any blame being directed towards Trump, just the reporter noting the amount of incidents increasing since Trump's candidacy.

It would be nice to see Trump condemn the white nationalists throwing "sieg heils" with as much vigor as he condemns Rosie O'Donnell.
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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby jumpinjack » Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:31 am

ironchefchris wrote:I didn't see in the linked article any blame being directed towards Trump, just the reporter noting the amount of incidents increasing since Trump's candidacy.

It would be nice to see Trump condemn the white nationalists throwing "sieg heils" with as much vigor as he condemns Rosie O'Donnell.

Sig Hail? LOL What news sources do you read? C'mon now. Oh, you don't read what is put in front of you. Your link does not even work.
The only news reports I see are folks protesting and wanting to tear down the very foundation of America (the peaceful transfer of power in a free and open election) with violence and property destruction.
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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby ironchefchris » Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:01 pm

I was referring to the link in the OP from the writer who has noticed the change in the states since Trump started running for President. My link works fine for me, but I see you need a subscription so maybe that explains why it didn't work for you. If you bother to take a quick look you'll see that the story is all over the place as reported by respected news organizations worldwide. But if you really think this is all being made up here's a link to a Google search (https://www.google.com.pe/search?q=alt+ ... BygA&dpr=1) so you can read for yourself along with video and a still photo from the recent alt-right gathering in D.C.. Could be you're not seeing this story and only the stories about overwhelmingly peaceful protests because that's all you want to see and/or you limit yourself to alt-right media.



Image

I love the irony of a bi-sexual Vietnamese immigrant woman known for dating black athletes who chose to use as a surname the name of Mexico's most famous alcohol and has resorted to soliciting handouts online to pay for her rent now aligning herself with a group of conservative, white nationalists/supremacists. You can't make this stuff up.

Lol at your concern about people "wanting to tear down the very foundation of America (the peaceful transfer of power in a free and open election) with violence and property destruction." First off, other than what happened in Portland I haven't heard of any protests that involved violence or property destruction. I'd be glad to read about other examples if you can provide a link. Second off, here's what Trump had to say when Romney lost the election in 2012. Were you as concerned then as you are now about the peaceful transfer of power and violence? Chill out and have some more cranberry sauce if you are so easily upset about Americans exercising their Constitutional rights to assembly and free speech. For the record, though I disagree with what the white nationalists have to say and with how they say it, I am in favor of them being allowed to assemble and exercise their rights to free speech. I think it's a good thing for them to show themselves for who they really are to the world.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... this-week/

The night Mitt Romney lost, Donald Trump tweeted.

About 20 minutes after polls closed on the West Coast, television networks called the election for President Obama. Like Karl Rove, who'd just been told that Fox News had called Ohio against the Republican, Trump was incredulous. "He lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election," he tweeted. "We should have a revolution in this country!"

Over the next half hour, he continued.

The phoney electoral college made a laughing stock out of our nation. The loser one! We can't let this happen. We should march on Washington and stop this travesty. Our nation is totally divided!

Lets fight like hell and stop this great and disgusting injustice! The world is laughing at us. More votes equals a loss ... revolution! This election is a total sham and a travesty. We are not a democracy! Our country is now in serious and unprecedented trouble ... like never before. The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy.

The tweets about "revolution" were deleted that night. Most of the others, including the one about how "we can't let this happen," remain.
Last edited by ironchefchris on Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby jumpinjack » Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:50 pm

ironchefchris wrote:I was referring to the link in the OP from the writer who has noticed the change in the states since Trump started running for President. My link works fine for me, but I see you need a subscription so maybe that explains why it didn't work for you. If you bother to take a quick look you'll see that the story is all over the place as reported by respected news organizations worldwide. But if you really think this is all being made up here's a link to a Google search (https://www.google.com.pe/search?q=alt+ ... BygA&dpr=1) so you can read for yourself along with video and a still photo from the recent alt-right gathering in D.C.. Could be you're not seeing this story and only the stories about overwhelmingly peaceful protests because that's all you want to see and/or you limit yourself to alt-right media.



Image

I love the irony of a bi-sexual Vietnamese woman known for dating black athletes and who chose to use as a surname the name of Mexico's most famous alcohol aligning herself with a group of conservative white nationalists/supremacists. You can't make this stuff up.

Lol at your concern about people "wanting to tear down the very foundation of America (the peaceful transfer of power in a free and open election) with violence and property destruction." First off, other than what happened in Portland I haven't heard of any protests that involved violence or property destruction. I'd be glad to read about other examples if you can provide a link. Second off, here's what Trump had to say when Romney lost the election in 2012. Were you as concerned then as you are now about the peaceful transfer of power and violence? Chill out and have some more cranberry sauce if you are so easily upset about Americans exercising their Constitutional rights to assembly and free speech. For the record, though I disagree with what the white nationalists have to say and with how they say it, I am in favor of them being allowed to assemble and exercise their rights to free speech. I think it's a good thing for them to show themselves for who they really are to the world.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... this-week/

The night Mitt Romney lost, Donald Trump tweeted.

About 20 minutes after polls closed on the West Coast, television networks called the election for President Obama. Like Karl Rove, who'd just been told that Fox News had called Ohio against the Republican, Trump was incredulous. "He lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election," he tweeted. "We should have a revolution in this country!"

Over the next half hour, he continued.

The phoney electoral college made a laughing stock out of our nation. The loser one! We can't let this happen. We should march on Washington and stop this travesty. Our nation is totally divided!

Lets fight like hell and stop this great and disgusting injustice! The world is laughing at us. More votes equals a loss ... revolution! This election is a total sham and a travesty. We are not a democracy! Our country is now in serious and unprecedented trouble ... like never before. The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy.

The tweets about "revolution" were deleted that night. Most of the others, including the one about how "we can't let this happen," remain.

This is simply an example that you can find most anything on the internet to back a view.
What you will not find is Trump endorsing or condoning these folks, who by the way, simply exercising their right to assemble, sick as they may be with their beliefs.
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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby ironchefchris » Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:16 pm

Sure, but what I just posted is major news, reported on not just nationally, but internationally from respected journalist organizations. It's not some little story reported on by some little known website in some far off corner of conspiracy land on the internet. The video and photo and Trump's own words about suggesting revolution don't lie.

Like I said, if Trump can condemn Rosie O'Donnell and others repeatedly and with such vigor and vitriol, you'd think he could do the same with the white supremacists. I'm sure there's a reason he goes relatively soft on them and gives them a slap on the wrist compared to all the others he condemns. I don't think anyone expects him to endorse or condone these actions, but it sure would be nice to see the President elect and future proverbially leader of the free world actually denounce them with the same vigor like he does anyone who disagrees with or criticizes him.

Any links to stories showing widespread violence and destruction of property because of the protests or Trump like calls for revolution? If anyone can easily find numerous accounts of white nationalists using fascist displays of loyalty, you'd think you'd be able to come up with at least one link that shows that there is violence and destruction of property at a protest other than Portland since "you can find most anything on the internet to back a view."

But I've made my point and this seems to be going off the topic of seeing an increase in discrimination against Spanish speakers in the US. Maybe if you can find anything on the internet from a reputable source to back up your point of view you'd consider starting a different thread and posting it there. I'd love to read them.
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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby jumpinjack » Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:38 pm

You wrote, Trump can condemn Rosie O'Donnell and others repeatedly and with such vigor and vitriol, you'd think he could do the same with the white supremacists.
Why dignify or give recognition to such groups with a response from the leader of the free world?
Besides I think he already took his stand and made clear.
rejects KKK http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/22/politics/ ... ork-times/

rejects alt right http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... repulsive/
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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby ironchefchris » Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:52 pm

Why? Because I think white supremacists and white nationalism are a far greater threat to the Republic and it's citizens than Rosie O'Donnell, the former Miss Universe he spent days going after, the handicapped journalist he ridiculed, the P.O.W.'s he's insulted, the Gold Star Family parents he insulted, the U.S. Federal judge he thinks can't do his job based on the judges ancestors, and on and on and on. Do you think all those examples were worthy of his recognition and response?
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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby jumpinjack » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:55 pm

ironchefchris wrote:Sure, but what I just posted is major news, reported on not just nationally, but internationally from respected journalist organizations. It's not some little story reported on by some little known website in some far off corner of conspiracy land on the internet. The video and photo and Trump's own words about suggesting revolution don't lie.

Like I said, if Trump can condemn Rosie O'Donnell and others repeatedly and with such vigor and vitriol, you'd think he could do the same with the white supremacists. I'm sure there's a reason he goes relatively soft on them and gives them a slap on the wrist compared to all the others he condemns. I don't think anyone expects him to endorse or condone these actions, but it sure would be nice to see the President elect and future proverbially leader of the free world actually denounce them with the same vigor like he does anyone who disagrees with or criticizes him.

Any links to stories showing widespread violence and destruction of property because of the protests or Trump like calls for revolution? If anyone can easily find numerous accounts of white nationalists using fascist displays of loyalty, you'd think you'd be able to come up with at least one link that shows that there is violence and destruction of property at a protest other than Portland since "you can find most anything on the internet to back a view."

But I've made my point and this seems to be going off the topic of seeing an increase in discrimination against Spanish speakers in the US. Maybe if you can find anything on the internet from a reputable source to back up your point of view you'd consider starting a different thread and posting it there. I'd love to read them.

Well, since you made your point, back on topic. You should Google the author Walter Rhien, pretty colorful written some books. Also seems he has problems finding work because of "year long gaps" in his resume. What could cause "year long gaps"?

He finds no problem playing a little loosy goosey with the law. He wrote in "Reckless Traveler" one of his books, "The instructional travel guide for aspiring backpackers: learn how to bribe police" and more. That's all. Guess I have to buy the book to see the "and more" ways to break the law.
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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby ironchefchris » Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:52 pm

What could cause "year long gaps"? - Travel. Especially travel abroad. The sub title of the book you referenced is "Tales From A Decade Abroad." Another reason could be that he's a writer which means he's probably more of a freelancer than a typical 9-5 type employee. Not that year long gaps in his resume is a crime or has anything to do at all with what his article was about - noticing the increase in discrimination shown towards his Spanish speaking family members in the USA.

I also don't see how what he's written elsewhere about how to get along in foreign countries by giving practical advice on how to bribe the police has anything at all to do with seeing increased discrimination towards Spanish speakers in the USA. It certainly doesn't negate what he's witnessed. And the title of his book is 'The Reckless Traveler.' Sounds like he's giving an honest account of what to expect when traveling. Maybe you haven't been in Perú all that long or to other countries where paying small, S/. 20 bribes to the police is the quick, easy, time saving, and cheap solution that is quite common for the culture. Ask anyone who drives a car, no matter their economic or social status. And who are the biggest perpetrators of bribery? The police themselves. The Peruvians whose job it is is to uphold the law are the ones who are breaking the law and encouraging travelers (and others) to do so by paying them bribes. I'm not in favor of the practice, but the reason it exists is because of the police, not because of travelers. Here's a link from ExpatPeru to the basics of bribery in Perú if it's something you're interested in.

http://www.expatperu.com/bribe-paying-and-peru.html

"Another common situation is with police officers who will accuse you of an invented infraction, playing on your fear and possible ignorance of Peruvian law to solicit a bribe from you."

Traveler's don't go out of their way to bribe the police for invented infractions; it's the police that are the ones demanding that bribes be paid. Hardly something to blame this writer for and make an ad hominem attack, that again, has absolutely nothing at all to do with his noting that discrimination towards Spanish speakers has increased in the USA.

Since bribery is a common "fact here in Perú" I'm sure many people would rather be educated about it and how to deal with it instead of potentially facing it blindly. Here's what someone named Jim commented:

"I prefer to pay S/20 even S/50 to the police rather spent 3-4 hours going from one line to the next in the city court."

But I still don't see what any gaps in the writer's resume or his giving practical travel advice and notifying his readers about the reality of what to expect when they travel has anything at all to do with the linked to article in the OP. But since you brought it up, I did see on Amazon.com that his book was given 5 stars by 85% of those who reviewed it and 4 stars by 13% - so obviously it's well liked and considered informative and useful. I also noticed your concern about people playing a little loosy goosey with the law is kind of loosy goosey itself. Writer giving advice on how to deal with paying a bribe to a cop = bad. Cops incinerating a bunch of contraband drugs = "Such a shame."

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=29575&p=150698#p150698

Try again, and stick to the actual topic of increased discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA instead of unrelated topics such as gaps in resumes or advice to travelers on how to deal with police when they demand you pay them a bribe.
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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby woodchuck » Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:39 am

Yes Iron, I agree 100%!
Posters need to stay on topic; moderators need to move non-topic posts to a new thread.
I do have to agree from first-hand experience; people in the US are less tolerant of citizens who don't speak English in their daily activities.

Trump has had an influence in this; while I believe all citizens need to be respected, unless they break the law.
This includes all those that flagrantly break the law & speak "perfect English".
America can be GREAT AGAIN, if we all accept cultural diversity as a asset, not a liability.

Best wishes to all. :roll:
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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby bigdaddy » Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:58 am

jumpinjack wrote:
ironchefchris wrote:Sure, but what I just posted is major news, reported on not just nationally, but internationally from respected journalist organizations. It's not some little story reported on by some little known website in some far off corner of conspiracy land on the internet. The video and photo and Trump's own words about suggesting revolution don't lie.

Like I said, if Trump can condemn Rosie O'Donnell and others repeatedly and with such vigor and vitriol, you'd think he could do the same with the white supremacists. I'm sure there's a reason he goes relatively soft on them and gives them a slap on the wrist compared to all the others he condemns. I don't think anyone expects him to endorse or condone these actions, but it sure would be nice to see the President elect and future proverbially leader of the free world actually denounce them with the same vigor like he does anyone who disagrees with or criticizes him.

Any links to stories showing widespread violence and destruction of property because of the protests or Trump like calls for revolution? If anyone can easily find numerous accounts of white nationalists using fascist displays of loyalty, you'd think you'd be able to come up with at least one link that shows that there is violence and destruction of property at a protest other than Portland since "you can find most anything on the internet to back a view."

But I've made my point and this seems to be going off the topic of seeing an increase in discrimination against Spanish speakers in the US. Maybe if you can find anything on the internet from a reputable source to back up your point of view you'd consider starting a different thread and posting it there. I'd love to read them.

Well, since you made your point, back on topic. You should Google the author Walter Rhien, pretty colorful written some books. Also seems he has problems finding work because of "year long gaps" in his resume. What could cause "year long gaps"?

He finds no problem playing a little loosy goosey with the law. He wrote in "Reckless Traveler" one of his books, "The instructional travel guide for aspiring backpackers: learn how to bribe police" and more. That's all. Guess I have to buy the book to see the "and more" ways to break the law.


He also is playing a little loosy goosey with the truth.
From an author interview...

Fiona: How much of the book is realistic?

Rhein:
It’s all based on real things that happened, although a lot of them are told in a way that takes quite a bit of artistic license…you have to be interesting after all.

That's writerspeak for fantasying and telling tales that doubtfully the author experienced himself.
Probably from 2nd hand info that he read online somewhere and he incorporated it into a book.
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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby windsportinperu » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:10 am

I really hope that it is just an isolated case in US and not a problem that is going to be spreaded across the country..

Blaming latinos for problems in USA is unfair
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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby ironchefchris » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:21 am

Blaming people or countries without power or a voice instead of those actually responsible for their problems is the American way.

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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby jumpinjack » Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:36 am

You got that right, Ironchefcris
I don't think anyone blames latinos their for problems that is ridiculous. As the cartoon indicates, we blame illegals that work illegally, dirt cheap and suck off the government tit that the dems have so generously provided.
I think the blame belongs to our liberal leaders.
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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby ironchefchris » Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:48 am

Thanks for proving the point, jumpinjack, that many Americans need to blame others with little power and no voice instead of those actually responsible for the situation. As if poor immigrants have more power and control over the US economy and jobs than the employers who take advantage of them.

Blame the liberals, but have you taken the following into account?

The only US President to grant amnesty to illegal immigrants was Ronald Reagan. Not the Ronald Reagan who was a liberal actor, but the conservative politician version of Reagan. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigrati ... ct_of_1986)

The amount of illegal immigrants entering the US spiked after the implementation of NAFTA. The US govt. gives farm subsidies to US farmers. After NAFTA passed Mexico stopped giving subsidies to Mexican farmers. NAFTA allowed these US farmers to sell corn to Mexico at below market value and cheaper than Mexican farmers could produce their own food staple. Suddenly out of work Mexican agricultural workers followed their jobs North to where those jobs were outsourced. Latinos are very family oriented. They wouldn't voluntarily leave their families behind to be exploited in a foreign country unless they absolutely had to to support their families. (http://www.npr.org/2013/12/26/257255787 ... fter-nafta)

NAFTA was the brainchild of George H.W. Bush - hardly a liberal. Though it was pushed through by Clinton - a center/right neoliberal more interested in deregulating banks for Wall St.'s benefit than a classic, F.D.R. type of liberal.

Have you ever considered blaming the employers that hire illegals because they don't want to pay even the minimum wage and benefits to their workers? Employers have far more power and control than the immigrants they exploit. They generally support the Republican party and are far from liberal.

The employers of illegals and the conservative politicians they support have you whipped up into a frenzy and have got you believing it's not their policies which are and have been the source of problems for the American working class. They've distracted you and have you believing it's the poor, exploited immigrants that are the source of problems for the American working class.

Illegals contribute more in taxes than they receive from the system. State tax, local tax, sales tax, property tax, gasoline tax, alcohol and tobacco taxes, road tolls, etc.. If they use someone else's social security number they will never benefit from the taxes deducted from their paycheck - they pay in but they don't benefit. In 2010 illegal immigrants paid $13 Billion just in social security taxes that they will never benefit from. They certainly pay more in taxes than Trump has, lol. (http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 ... s-in-taxes), (http://fusion.net/story/353288/donald-t ... immigrant/)

It's not really a conservative/liberal issue, as much as it is one where the responsibility lies with the ruling class and the employers who make campaign contributions to ensure that they have a steady source of cheap, exploitable labor. Blaming immigrants is just a lazy way of not thinking about or addressing the reality of the US economy and the problems faced by the American working class.

Sorry, but if you/Trump get your way you'll be paying more money when you eat out at restaurants, more to have your property's landscape maintained, more in the supermarket for fruits, vegetables, and meats (partly due to increased wages, partly due to decreases in productivity since gringos don't have the skill sets necessary for this type of work), more to paint your house, put up a new roof, etc., more for just about everything where employers have been relying on a cheap source of labor in order to keep their costs down. (http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/20 ... ld-crumble) (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... immigrants).

You obviously didn't get the point of the cartoon. Automation, not immigrants, not liberals, are what has eliminated many jobs formerly done by people. The politicians and employers who contribute to their campaigns have those not willing to take an honest look at the situation convinced it's the fault of immigrants and/or liberals.

Try to take a little time to actually research the issue before simply regurgitating cable news talking points if you're at all interested in understanding how the US economy functions and what role immigrant labor plays.

Of course, this again has nothing to do with the documented discrimination being shown to Spanish speakers and documented increase in hate crimes since Trump announced his candidacy and even more now that he's won.
Last edited by ironchefchris on Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby jumpinjack » Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:01 pm

ironchefchris wrote:Thanks for proving the point, jumpinjack, that many Americans need to blame others with little power and no voice instead of those actually responsible for the situation. As if poor immigrants have more power and control over the US economy and jobs than the employers who take advantage of them.

Blame the liberals, but have you taken the following into account?

The only US President to grant amnesty to illegal immigrants was Ronald Reagan. Not the Ronald Reagan who was a liberal actor, but the conservative politician version of Reagan. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigrati ... ct_of_1986)

The amount of illegal immigrants entering the US spiked after the implementation of NAFTA. The US govt. gives farm subsidies to US farmers. After NAFTA passed Mexico stopped giving subsidies to Mexican farmers. NAFTA allowed these US farmers to sell corn to Mexico at below market value and cheaper than Mexican farmers could produce their own food staple. Suddenly out of work Mexican agricultural workers followed their jobs North to where those jobs were outsourced. Latinos are very family oriented. They wouldn't voluntarily leave their families behind to be exploited in a foreign country unless they absolutely had to to support their families. (http://www.npr.org/2013/12/26/257255787 ... fter-nafta)

NAFTA was the brainchild of George H.W. Bush - hardly a liberal. Though it was pushed through by Clinton - a center/right neoliberal more interested in deregulating banks for Wall St.'s benefit than a classic, F.D.R. type of liberal.

Have you ever considered blaming the employers that hire illegals because they don't want to pay even the minimum wage and benefits to their workers? Employers have far more power and control than the immigrants they exploit. They generally support the Republican party and are far from liberal.

The employers of illegals and the conservative politicians they support have you whipped up into a frenzy and have got you believing it's not their policies which are and have been the source of problems for the American working class. They've distracted you and have you believing it's the poor, exploited immigrants that are the source of problems for the American working class.

Illegals contribute more in taxes than they receive from the system. Sales tax, gasoline tax, alcohol and tobacco taxes, road tolls, etc.. If they use someone else's social security number they will never benefit from the taxes deducted from their paycheck - they pay in but they don't benefit.

It's not really a conservative/liberal issue, as much as it is one where the responsibility lies with the ruling class and the employers who make campaign contributions to ensure that they have a steady source of cheap, exploitable labor. Blaming immigrants is just a lazy way of not thinking about or addressing the reality of the US economy and the problems faced by the American working class.

Sorry, but if you/Trump get your way you'll be paying more money when you eat out at restaurants, more to have your property's landscape maintained, more in the supermarket for fruits, vegetables, and meats (partly due to increased wages, partly due to decreases in productivity since gringos don't have the skill sets necessary for this type of work), more to paint your house, put up a new roof, etc., more for just about everything where employers have been relying on a cheap source of labor in order to keep their costs down.

You obviously didn't get the point of the cartoon. Automation, not immigrants, not liberals, are what has eliminated many jobs formerly done by people. The politicians and employers who contribute to their campaigns have those not willing to take an honest look at the situation convinced it's the fault of immigrants and/or liberals.

No, it is you that missed the point. You are reading into it but that is ok.
Why does the man condemn immigration instead of Silicon Valley, Bill Gates or just simply Damn Technology or damn automation?
You should look at your cartoon again.
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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby ironchefchris » Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:10 pm

Must be that ubiquitous red trucker's hat.

But if you've got a point to make I'm not going to play 20 questions and attempt to make your point for you.
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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby jumpinjack » Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:26 pm

ironchefchris wrote:Must be that ubiquitous red trucker's hat.

But if you've got a point to make I'm not going to play 20 questions and attempt to make your point for you.

You got it, the red hat. A liberal slanted cartoon aimed at what liberals like to smear Republicans with.
As you pointed out with Reagan, it is not Republicans holding immigration back.
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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby ironchefchris » Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:31 pm

At the Trump rallies and on the campaign trail I didn't see Trump try to convince his working class base that automation is the source of their problems and lack of work. The blame was squarely put on immigrants and his supporters clearly lapped it up instead of countering that it's Silicon Valley or employers responsible for their lack of work.

The cartoon is accurate.
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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby jumpinjack » Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:46 pm

ironchefchris wrote:At the Trump rallies and on the campaign trail I didn't see Trump try to convince his working class base that automation is the source of their problems and lack of work. The blame was squarely put on immigrants and his supporters clearly lapped it up instead of countering that it's Silicon Valley or employers responsible for their lack of work.

The cartoon is accurate.

No one is against immigration or blames their woes on immigration, no one. Liberals like to leave off one key word when smearing conservatives 'illegal'.
Yes, the cartoon is accurate, another Republican smear.
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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby ironchefchris » Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:46 pm

Yet legal immigrants who speak Spanish (to bring it back around to the OP) are still being discriminated against (or shown disdain) just for speaking in Spanish instead of English.

As far as legal vs. illegal immigration you have a point, yet fail to acknowledge that blaming illegal immigrants for lack of jobs dismisses the role of automation, employers who want to hire illegal immigrants to cut costs, the politicians on both sides of the aisle who legislate in such a way as to encourage illegal immigration, companies moving factories abroad, companies (such as Trumps) outsourcing production overseas and buying (in Trump's case) foreign steel over US made steel (among other products), and the unwillingness and/or inability for Americans to adequately perform jobs for a wage that employers are willing to pay and for a cut in productivity companies would be willing to accept.

Blaming illegal immigrants and liberals is a lazy person's scapegoat. Especially considering how much they contribute to the US economy in work provided and taxes and how vital they are to the overall strength of the US economy. At least according to conservative Wall St. media such as Forbes, Bloomberg, and others.

And a smear isn't really a smear when it's accurately describing the situation. Trump and his supporters place the primary blame on illegal immigrants for their poor economic situation. Not Silicon Valley. Not employers. Build the Wall! (Good luck with that. It'll inevitably become yet another in a growing line of broken Trump promises)
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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby windsportinperu » Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:16 pm

Jumpin, Try not to defend what is indefensible.. It is my wish that you be better informed about what are the real problems in a great country as USA..

America is great now.. it does not need "to be great again", because it is already a great country ...

All that USA need is great and honest leaders.. no matter if they are republicans, democrats, 3º party and so on...

Blaming hispanic population no matter if they are legal or illegal is absurb...

Trump said offensive words against latinos ... it is the worst way to make a country better...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/9-o ... 18f618904b
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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby windsportinperu » Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:45 pm

Iron,

You make a really good point about the problems in USA with the drawing above... You might see this another study...

http://time.com/3651697/afghanistan-war-cost/
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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby ironchefchris » Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:10 am

jumpinjack wrote:
ironchefchris wrote:At the Trump rallies and on the campaign trail I didn't see Trump try to convince his working class base that automation is the source of their problems and lack of work. The blame was squarely put on immigrants and his supporters clearly lapped it up instead of countering that it's Silicon Valley or employers responsible for their lack of work.

The cartoon is accurate.

No one is against immigration or blames their woes on immigration, no one. Liberals like to leave off one key word when smearing conservatives 'illegal'.
Yes, the cartoon is accurate, another Republican smear.

Here's a recent story citing a study that shows that there are a lot of incidents against immigrants who aren't illegal. There's been close to 900 hate incidents in the 10 days after Trump was elected. Obviously not all Trump supporters are white nationalists, racists, etc., but it seems that all white nationalists, racists, etc., are Trump supporters.

I don't get people who deny that these incidents are taking place. It's one thing to support Trump because you like some of his policies or only because you can't stand Hillary, but it's another to deny what's going on and being reported by major new agencies such as Reuters. It's like supporting Clinton because you agree with her on some of her policy positions, or only because you don't like Trump, but then denying she has a problem with email servers and deletions, high paying Wall St. speeches, Benghazi, pay to play as it relates to the Clinton Foundation, etc..

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-t ... SKBN13O2ED

https://www.splcenter.org/20161129/ten- ... h-election

Immigrants have been the most frequent targets for post-election hate.

About one-third of the incidents, 280 total, were motivated by anti-immigration sentiments, according to the SPLC report.

Trump stoked immigration fears starting with his first campaign speech, when he referred to Mexican immigrants as rapists and criminals. He energized his supporters with his promise to build a wall on the U.S.-Mexico border, and has pledged to deport millions of undocumented immigrants once he is in office.

It’s not clear if Trump can and will deliver on his promises, but they’re being used to harass immigrants, particularly Latinos, and often at schools, the report notes:

Students and young people have absorbed divisive campaign rhetoric and are using it to taunt and harass their classmates, with chants of “Build the wall!” making their way into school cafeterias, hallways, and buses. In Colorado Springs, Colorado, 8th grade students told Latino students on the school bus, “Not only should Trump build a wall, but it should be electrocuted (sic) and Mexicans should have to wear shock collars.” In Redding, California, students brought “deportation letters” to school for their Latino classmates.
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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby jumpinjack » Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:58 am

ironchefchris wrote:
jumpinjack wrote:
ironchefchris wrote:At the Trump rallies and on the campaign trail I didn't see Trump try to convince his working class base that automation is the source of their problems and lack of work. The blame was squarely put on immigrants and his supporters clearly lapped it up instead of countering that it's Silicon Valley or employers responsible for their lack of work.

The cartoon is accurate.

No one is against immigration or blames their woes on immigration, no one. Liberals like to leave off one key word when smearing conservatives 'illegal'.
Yes, the cartoon is accurate, another Republican smear.

Here's a recent story citing a study that shows that there are a lot of incidents against immigrants who aren't illegal. There's been close to 900 hate incidents in the 10 days after Trump was elected. Obviously not all Trump supporters are white nationalists, racists, etc., but it seems that all white nationalists, racists, etc., are Trump supporters.

I don't get people who deny that these incidents are taking place. It's one thing to support Trump because you like some of his policies or only because you can't stand Hillary, but it's another to deny what's going on and being reported by major new agencies such as Reuters. It's like supporting Clinton because you agree with her on some of her policy positions, or only because you don't like Trump, but then denying she has a problem with email servers and deletions, high paying Wall St. speeches, Benghazi, pay to play as it relates to the Clinton Foundation, etc..

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-t ... SKBN13O2ED

https://www.splcenter.org/20161129/ten- ... h-election

Immigrants have been the most frequent targets for post-election hate.

About one-third of the incidents, 280 total, were motivated by anti-immigration sentiments, according to the SPLC report.

Trump stoked immigration fears starting with his first campaign speech, when he referred to Mexican immigrants as rapists and criminals. He energized his supporters with his promise to build a wall on the U.S.-Mexico border, and has pledged to deport millions of undocumented immigrants once he is in office.

It’s not clear if Trump can and will deliver on his promises, but they’re being used to harass immigrants, particularly Latinos, and often at schools, the report notes:

Students and young people have absorbed divisive campaign rhetoric and are using it to taunt and harass their classmates, with chants of “Build the wall!” making their way into school cafeterias, hallways, and buses. In Colorado Springs, Colorado, 8th grade students told Latino students on the school bus, “Not only should Trump build a wall, but it should be electrocuted (sic) and Mexicans should have to wear shock collars.” In Redding, California, students brought “deportation letters” to school for their Latino classmates.

Yeah you can go digging to find anything you want to try and prove your point and I see you have spent some time digging. Few would deny it goes on. You can not prove it is more or less since the arrival of the boogy man. The fact is it has been going on forever and not just since Trump was made the boogy man.
I thought you wanted to get back on topic?
Why did Alan post this blip from a Facebook page of all places? We in America used to have thicker skins. Think of the rush of Italians and Germans at the turn of the century. They heard it all the time. Did they go around whining. No they sat out and made America great the first time.
Your arguments are ludicrous. You want to see what you want to see. You can not prove it goes on more since the boogy man has appeared. What would you compare it too? What is your constant?
Have these people said speak English before or is the the boogy man forcing them. The boogy man has taken over America and made them Zombies.
Talk about in defensible, lol
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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby ironchefchris » Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:21 am

I'd hardly call coming across something from Reuters as having to spend time digging. It's major news reported on a variety of media sites; not having to dig on some obscure corner of the internet. Maybe you're just getting your "news" from Alex Jones and alt-right media?

I agree these hateful acts have been going on for a long time. That's a really sad statement on American society re: discrimination and hate acts. You don't even have to dig to find that even though these ugly acts are nothing new, the amount of incidents have been increasing. Sunshine, in the form of bringing these incidents to the forefront and talking about them, is the best disinfectant, as opposed to poo-pooing them or otherwise trying to push them under the rug and out of sight.

I don't see what I want to see. I see what's being reported on by major news agencies and being broadcast across several forms of media. I don't chose to ignore ugliness and stick my head in the sand.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

- Edmund Burke

Are you really suggesting that victims of these hateful and sometimes illegal acts should just stop whining and take it because that's what was done by immigrants in the past and is part of what made America great the first time? If so, why are you (and most likely have for a long time) whining, whining, whining, about Liberals, illegal immigrants, political cartoons as being 'Republican smears,' etc.? Why not take your own advice to others and stop whining?

I'm not now, nor have I ever said Trump is the boogy man. Trump has just made it so that all these white nationalists and racists feel safer coming out of the shadows and making their hate public Big difference.

In the age of Trump, who responds to any minor criticism with an epic Twitter rant, thin skin is in. :lol: You should probably direct that 'stop whining, toughen up, get a thicker skin' towards him.

Image
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Re: Is discrimination towards Spanish speakers increasing in the USA

Postby jumpinjack » Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:53 am

ironchefchris wrote:I'd hardly call coming across something from Reuters as having to spend time digging. It's major news reported on a variety of media sites; not having to dig on some obscure corner of the internet. Maybe you're just getting your "news" from Alex Jones and alt-right media?

I agree these hateful acts have been going on for a long time. That's a really sad statement on American society re: discrimination and hate acts. You don't even have to dig to find that even though these ugly acts are nothing new, the amount of incidents have been increasing. Sunshine, in the form of bringing these incidents to the forefront and talking about them, is the best disinfectant, as opposed to poo-pooing them or otherwise trying to push them under the rug and out of sight.

I don't see what I want to see. I see what's being reported on by major news agencies and being broadcast across several forms of media. I don't chose to ignore ugliness and stick my head in the sand.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

- Edmund Burke

Are you really suggesting that victims of these hateful and sometimes illegal acts should just stop whining and take it because that's what was done by immigrants in the past and is part of what made America great the first time? If so, why are you (and most likely have for a long time) whining, whining, whining, about Liberals, illegal immigrants, political cartoons as being 'Republican smears,' etc.? Why not take your own advice to others and stop whining?

I'm not now, nor have I ever said Trump is the boogy man. Trump has just made it so that all these white nationalists and racists feel safer coming out of the shadows and making their hate public Big difference.

In the age of Trump, who responds to any minor criticism with an epic Twitter rant, thin skin is in. :lol: You should probably direct that 'stop whining, toughen up, get a thicker skin' towards him.

Image

People have been incited and empowered by the left by preaching to its minions what it will be like when there is a boogy man in the White House. Does anyone remember we have a democracy and no one man runs the country? The wall and all that will never happen it has been tried before. In fact it is already in place in some places. Do politicians break campaign promises? Look at Obama, "You will be able to keep your own plan and doctor and it will cost you less." lol

All this whining and gnashing of teeth because people have been told what a Trump administration will do. Fortune tellers. Got the masses wound up and wetting their pants. Heck I bet Trump has not even completely formulated what his administration take on.

You really should get your head out of the sand and stop drinking that Kool Aid

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