LAN now charging all NON-RESIDENTS a $178.50 fee

[Ruud]

I checked out the LAN site from the European website for a Lima-Tarapoto return flight of 1h 20 minutes. The best price offer is Euro 283. (including taxes éxcluding airport exit tax)

The same website offers a Madrid-Lima return flight of 12 hours for Euro 849. (including taxes)

Or even better to compare, a 2h 40 min LAN return flight from Frankfurt to Madrid costs Euro 79. (including taxes)
Note that airport taxes are higher in Europe and staff gets payed a lot more.

Draw your own conclusions. But mines are:
- LAN acts as a monopolist on the Peruvian domestic market
- With these prices mass turism will never happen.

Leonarro

[americorps]

ok, folks.

1 I do not think many people are that upset that Lan has a price to encourage Peruvians to travel within their own country..the upset comes more from being unclear about it, taking peoples money and selling them tickets then fining a significant amount (usually more than the cost of the ticket) them for not meeting the unclear criteria and they have lower prices that are available to non-Peruvians but only display them on the Peruvian website but have not made it clear.

I could care less if any of those issues are LEGAL or not, they are unethical and abusive and I think any customer would be making unwise decisions to pay someone to abuse them without at least speaking up for themselves.

And the end result, as I mentioned, were tourist here who simply purchased a ticket, some from Lan offices, went to the airport and were fined $184.50, disrupting their vacations, hurting Peruvian travel reputations and reinforcing the concept that Peruvians will try to fleece gringos any way they can.

Non of those things are good for Peru, good for tourism, good for business nor good for the reputation of Peru.

Further, Lan is not honorable enough to say..you know what ..we screwed this up and we could have done it better. We will make a short moritoriam on the fine and start over in a way our customers understand so we do not have tourists crying in the airport or returning to their home countries without completing their vacations and telling their friends not to bother going to Peru.

Instead, they deny, criticise and attack those who complain, a cheap and ignorant and unprofessional tactic.

RPP called and said they decided to kill the story..I pressed as to why and they did not give a reason, but in the conversation, guess who they told me was one of their commentators on travel stories? Non other than our friend at LAN, the customer care manager. Backs get scratched all the time in this world, but that does not mean I have to always like it or accept it.

The Commercio has not run the story yet, I will advise you if and when they do, but I suspect LAN is putting pressure on them as well as they are a major advertisor and probably have staff contributing to the paper there too.

Any media help will be appreciated.

[mahou123]

When you go to www.lan.com, first thing it is asking to select your country of residence, in both Spanish and English. Then it takes you to the according country site. Peruvian site is in Spanish only. So it is wrong to state here that the price is different according to the language used. It is different on Peruvian website only, and clearly states there that residents can book a cheaper fare.

Now somebody living in Peru is supposed to have either DNI or CE and know Spanish. If they live in Peru and don´t, it´s their problem, not LAN´s. Instead of crying on this website and organising campaign to boycott LAN, why not just get a CE. It´s quite easy really. Gives you an opportunity to pay a bit of taxes to the country that gave you a good life, plus a nice little discount on LAN flights. Which is objectively one of the best airlines in the world, certainly the best one in Peru, and is successful because of that.

[fanning]

So what should LAN do ?
I would say very simple. At the moment you fill out your personal data, including your passport/DNI/CE, that the site detects if you are a resident or not, and NOT sell the cheaper rate if you don't enter a DNI or Peruvian CE.
Simple solution, and would avoid this whole conversation.
Furthermore if I were LAN, I would allow passengers who already bought the ticket for the Peruvian promotional fare, simply have their flight. So basically that any ticket purchased from now on, must be purchased for the fare that is applicable to the resident status.

I totally disagree that LAN should post Peruvian ONLY offers on their whole worldwide country specific booking site. That doesn't make any sense. They don't show the promotional fare on a USA or Europe booking site, and that is enough. You can also not blame any company for not telling their customers that if they would have presented voucher X, that they would get a 40% discount.
For example is it unethical that I can eat in Tony Romas and at paying for the bill, I present a discount voucher which I got from simply having a Cuenta Sueldo with Banco de Credito ? No, that is just the deal that Tony Romas made with BCP. They don't have to advertize in the whole world, that the other people don't get the discount..
The LAN site is similar. They advertize the promotional fare ONLY on the Peruvian residency website.

[iron butterfly]

"Any media help will be appreciated." Maybe the media wanted to help and went to the LAN site and thought "Hmm What's the problem?"

[americorps]

fanning,

no one said they have to advertise the peruvian price on all their website all over the world.

What they do do, however, is have lower prices on their Peruvian website, some of those fares are open to the public. Then they make it difficult to descipher what fares are for whom.

I can not nor will not for one minute believe that in the 21st century, they could not make this more clear, nor do I find it acceptable the consuequences that people here on vacation are being fined in such a way.

you simply seem to dismiss the fact that they are selling fares to people then fining them for buying those fares and they have not made it clear.

and mahou,

You miss several key facts in your commnents. 1. People can be a resident of Peru without having a carnet. A tourist on a 6-month visa with permission to sign contracts can have an apartment here and have some form of residency, as can some ONG volunteers and others.

Further, they are selling these tickets to non-eligable people in their own offices without the website and they are selling them on third party websites without proper notification as well.

[Chiclayo gringo]

When you go to www.lan.com, first thing it is asking to select your country of residence, in both Spanish and English. Then it takes you to the according country site. Peruvian site is in Spanish only. So it is wrong to state here that the price is different according to the language used. It is different on Peruvian website only, and clearly states there that residents can book a cheaper fare.

Now somebody living in Peru is supposed to have either DNI or CE and know Spanish. If they live in Peru and don´t, it´s their problem, not LAN´s. Instead of crying on this website and organising campaign to boycott LAN, why not just get a CE. It´s quite easy really. Gives you an opportunity to pay a bit of taxes to the country that gave you a good life, plus a nice little discount on LAN flights. Which is objectively one of the best airlines in the world, certainly the best one in Peru, and is successful because of that.

Mahou123…I’m guessing you’ve never been accused of not having the courage of your convictions. Talk about cojones! Anyway, I’ve been thinking about stating my opinion on this topic. Now I don’t have to.

Tom

[americorps]

iron butterfly (first time poster), again...your comments miss the facts

1. Not everyone buys their tickets on lan.com, some have purchased them in the lan offices, on third party webistes and were not informed.

2. If you log-into the lan.com from a computer say in a hotel or cabina internet, it will already be set-up for Peru.

3. There are people who have Peruvian residency that are not eligble for the fairs and that was unclear

4. The print was in very small letters until the Commerio and RPP called them yesterday then it suddenly changed.

5. IPeru has been flooded with complaints about hos this has been handled and tourists have left peru.

If you think that constitutes no problem, I am curious as to what does constitute a problem with you?

[gerard]

I agree with the fanning and mahou123. To suggest we're now into media conspiracy seems to be going over the top. Next there'll be a link on LAN website inviting people to send details of people who criticised them.

Does anyone know if the $178 fee is a fixed fee, or was it simply the difference in ticket price for those particular seats on those particular flights at that time. That's pretty standard airline practice - you make a change and you pay the value at change time, not what you might have paid if you'd done it weeks before. So is a $25 difference in price as has been suggested realistic at at the airport 1-2 hours before your flight leaves?

The only thing I'm confused at now is when I had a look at the promo prices, a flight to Tumbes was $143 in the promo but only $118 through the standard booking engine, so I don't quite get where the special offer is.

[americorps]

conspirocy is not the right word.

The editorial person for travel is the same person as is the one that would comment on the story. it seems pretty straight-forward to me.

[gerard]

I pressed as to why and they did not give a reason, but in the conversation, guess who they told me was one of their commentators on travel stories? Non other than our friend at LAN, the customer care manager.

The Commercio has not run the story yet, I will advise you if and when they do, but I suspect LAN is putting pressure on them as well

The editorial person for travel is the same person as is the one that would comment on the story

So one of RPPs commentators is now their travel editor? And Comercio have not run the story yet but... sounds like conspiracy theory to me.

The only straightforward thing about this story is that some people got sold tickets they shouldn't have been and LAN made a hash of sorting the problem out. Which is pretty par for the course in Peruvian consumer care. But that's probably a separate thread.

[americorps]

well, you seem to be trying to nail me, but forgive me for embarassing you.

He hosts programs and works for RPP as well as being the head of Lan customer service.

The travel stories land on his desk and he decides what to take up and what to follow.

It is easily googleable, but please, do not let that get in the way of your claims.

[gerard]

I'm certainly not trying to nail you (I thougt that meant something different in the US) and my tongue was firmly in my cheek when I wrote my last reply. Just trying to point out that the guy went from being just one of their commentators to their travel editor in just over an hour. I'm happy to take your word that he is.

But that still doesn't mean the story has legs.

[iron butterfly]

The way I see it, some tourist got caught with their hand in the cookie jar. He went to LAN Peru, Spanish and bought a ticket, knowing it would be cheaper. He goes to check in and the agent looks at him and says "Hmm you do not look Peruvian". If that were me I would want to know why it is cheaper before I purchased. That's just me.

[mahou123]

If agencies and third party websites are selling promotional fares to non-eligible people, that´s bad. But I don´t think it´s LAN´s fault, third parties are supposed to know the new rules. Some poster above stated LAN is supposed to fine them as well. It would be fair to charge those $178 to such third parties too.

I agree the handling of the issue by responsible LAN employees was not very good. And they probably had a conversation about it with their managers, so something was quickly done on LAN website. Still, suggesting that everyone at LAN is an ´ugly liar´ and should ´go to hell´ is too much.

Americorps, people who have properties here and live on tourist visas, can fork out extra $50-100 for tarifa base plus and still survive. I believe that not paing taxes in Peru as a tourist, together with not paying taxes at home country as an overseas resident, can save one more than that.

[gerard]

My guess is that some of the people affected had no idea they were buying special tickets and were mis-sold them. LAN would have been better just accepting them and avoiding the fuss.

Equally I doubt than LAN deliberately set out to sell cheap tickets to gringos so they could screw them at the airport. I can believe they they didn't think they neeed to advertise Peru only special on non-Peru sites. But it's cock-up and happens in all businesses at some point.

[markr]

If charging higher prices in other arenas subsidises the prices for me, providing their policy is clearly stated then I'm all for it
LAN are by far the best airline operating in Peru and I would never use any other.

[Esteban]

As a newbie to this country, I have been staying away from this thread because I don't know enough about the situation.

But there is one thing for sure...this will only hurt tourism and business!

Let me say, I have so many family and friends that wish to visit. If they are slapped with an unexpected fee at the airport, they will most likely not visit again and will go back home to tell everyone how Peru screwed them over.

Thats just the simple truth!

If this fee is going to be added...put it in the ticket price and let the consumer decide. Don't put it on them at the airport when their back is against the wall...sends a really bad message!

My two cents,
Esteban

[americorps]

i wonder why those that support lan keep just dismissing facts that are contrary to your point?

1. Iron butterfly, Tourists have been going to Lan offices to buy tickets, Lan sell them to them without disclosing the fare rules. This is evidenced by the complaints recived by IPeru.

2. Markr, I also do not have a problem with a fare to promote Peruvian toursim within Peru IF IT WERE CLEARLY MARKED. Clearly, this was not, as evidenced by the small letters on the website UNTIL the complaints were filed, and as evidenced by people buying tickets without the rules presented on third party websites, agencies and from LAN offices. Further, the issues is NOT the rule, but instead the position that LAN did not do their job properly to inform clients. then penalized them NOT the difference in price for a ticket they qualify for, but $184.50 instead.

3. Mahou, you above all keep just picking and choosing comments without taking everything in entirety. I wish I could argue with someone and just pretend certain facts do not exist, but i was taught differently. Lan is clearly selling these tickets to unspespecting people and have not done due dillegence to stop it as evidences by the sheer numbers of people who have already got caught up in this. Instead of being honorable, they do what......pretend there is no problem becuase their intention was good. Deny any wrong doing and attack those that disagree and let those who suffered at their failure suffer without so much as an apology. It is a dishonorable and dishonest tactic.

It is very convienient for those that feel different just to ignore the number of complaints from IPeru, ignore the fact that cookies on many peruvian computers in cabinas and hotels automatically take people to the lan peru site without having them choose a country, and ignore that people who are residence of peru might click then and since it was not clear, purchase a ticket they did not realize they were not eligble to buy only to be gouged $184.50 at the airport as non-issues...

but with that convenience comes a price to credibility, to ignore facts simply because they do not fit with what you want to say is neither honest nor honorable.

[iron butterfly]

I am not familiar with IPeru, however I did google them. I was interested in seeing the complaints referenced. I found no such place to view those complaints. I wonder if anyone knows where I might see these complaints.

[fanning]

It is new, it applies to all tickets purchased September 1 or later, most fares will not include this new fee and you will need to be prepared to pay it at the airport.

As the OP stated in its original post, this new rule is efective since the first of September, he wrote its first post the 4th, so the new rule was only four days old.
The whole thing just looks like a small hickup in their system, basically LAN has it solved already by making it clear on their website that the cheaper fares only apply to residents.
I really wonder if now thousands of tourists are affected by this new rule, as they just purchased their tickets between the 1st and the 4th of September, be it through the (Peruvian)Lan website or a LAN office, or a travelagent who apparently was not informed yet about the new rule.

Surely what LAN should do now, is just physically block any sales to non-residents, and NOT charge the surcharge to the few people that bought their tickets between the 1st and the 4th.

I also couldnt find any complaints on the IPeru website, and I wonder if there are really tourists who actually were forced to pay the surcharge ?? Are there any stories to make that clear?

Furthermore an argument that 'residents' on eternal tourist visa also should be considered residents, doesn't hold, as these 'residents' are simply tourists by law, and can't be expected to have the same rights as real residents. For something they stamp 'Resident' in your passport. LAN is not to blame that they treat 'Tourists' as tourists..

[americorps]

IPeru is the ministry of trousim, they take complaints and respond to them or send the tourists to the approriate place to resolve it.

They do not publish them on the internet, nor do any other ministry of tourism that I know if. The lady at IPeru said she had a lot of calls and it happens that my partner is one of the people who receives emails at Prom Peru and he has received emails from tourists, including ones who were forced to pay or were turned away at the airport.

No one has ever suggested people here on a tourist visa should get equal treatment as residence, so I will not address that other than to say people on a tourist visa who are residing in Peru might naturally click Peru when they go to Lan.com and purchase a ticket because Lan did not make it clear it was a resident only fare.

And the end result is bad for Peru and for Lan...I can hardly see how that is arguable since it has already happened.

[Jimmy111]

Whenever you buy a air ticket in Peru they ask you for your passport or DNI. So I cant see how they can mistake where you are from...

[Claudia1973]

I do not have a problem with charging rich people more. If the rich people are relatives, it sounds like it may be personal problem.

What is unfair is that the rich people are being deceived. They are told that the price for flying is $X when it is $X + $180. Deception is bad business for the customer and, later, for the company.

[florida fella]

Taken from Lan.com

(*) As of September 1st, 2009 if you fly from Miami to Lima on a Saturday and return on a Sunday, fuel charge does not apply.

If I'm not mistaken, that's the only time Spirit has a flight from Miami to Lima and back. I guess Lan is going for the knock out punch!

[cajun jamie]

There are at least 2 key factors that keep getting ignored:

1- The extra "fee" is for non-residents. MANY Peruvian residents reside in the USA and speak English, so the disclaimer, which is ONLY in Spanish, needs to be on the USA site as well. It is not.

Conclusion: LAN has NOT updated their website.

2- If this is, as LAN states, a promotion for Peruvian residents, then great. Do like all the other promotions and put a large, colored box, on all the pages referencing Peru, and in big, bold letters write: "Peruvian Residents Receive Discount Fares for Travel in Peru."

Conclusion, they are using fine print, so it is not something they are promoting, it is something they are hiding from everyone but Peruvians, who they expect to visit the Spanish site.

If LAN was truly sincere, they would do as they say, and make this big, bold and clearly stated to all. Peruvian residents live in many countries, they come back often to visit, so it should not be some hidden fine print and surprise fines.

[fanning]

Peruvian residents live in many countries

Peruvian residents by the way, live by definition in Peru.
Peruvian citizens who live outside Peru are not residents. For example Peruvians who have their residency out of Peru, have the same tax free stay in hotels. The same as any tourist ( And for that taxdiscount in hotels, the tourist must be less than 60 days in the country )

On the USA site there is not any need for any disclaimer, as on the USA site there is no promotional offer, so no need to 'warn' potential customers that if they would have been Peruvian residents that they would have gotten a lower fare.

How a company decides to promote its discounts, is the business of the company. LAN offers a promotional fare on the Peruvian website, with a disclaimer that that doesn't apply for non-residents. So what exactly are they hiding ??

[americorps]

Fanning says

Peruvian residents by the way, live by definition in Peru.
Peruvian citizens who live outside Peru are not residents.

That would be your definition, but not that of Lan.

Again, fanning, there are people caught up in this, it is clearly a problem.

Again, Fanning, Lan is selling tickets to people not eligable for this far in Lan's own offices, it is clearly a problem.

Again, Fanning, there are people who would click on Peru because they currently live here but do not meet the residency requirement for these fares and it is not made clear, that is clearly a problem,

Again, Fanning, Lan is allowing people to sell these tickets in agencies and on third party website with no disclaimers and then again charging the passengers the fines when they show up, that is clearly a problem.

Again, Fanning, Cookies would mean many computers at cabinas and in hotels would automatically open the Lan Peru website without the need to click Peru and people are then on the unclear website through no fault of their own...again, this is clearly a problem.

It no world, no way shape or form is it anything less than a problem when a company sells something, offers a promotion, does not properly, openly and clearly qualify it then charge unsuspecting clients outragous fines for not following the unknown and unclear rules.

Your comfort with that makes me want to know if you have a business because if that is your value of customer service, I would like to be forwarned.

[cusco]

It's obvious that many who are posting on this subject might not have lived here long enough to have been ripped off by LAN. If you've lived here any length of time you would know LAN does what they want to and really could care less about the customer. They routinely show no respect or honor when dealing with their customers, which is something that you get use to, but the fact is, you shouldn't have to get use to it. I can't tell you the number of flights that I and family members have had canceled for no good reason.
In January my wife was traveling back to Peru with her dad, brother, and sister. She brought back a dog (Toy Fox Terrier). She had done the usual flight from the U.S. and stayed in the airport until the first flight to Cusco. She went to check-in and they would not let her take the dog because the dog did not have 10 cm of space above it's head (this dog is smaller than a chihuahua). Now, I had previously called LAN three separate times to check on the requirements and no one ever told me the dog needed 10 cm above it's head. Long story short, LAN would not budge. My father-in-law and the rest of the family had to travel to Cusco without my wife, while my wife was made to miss the flight, buy a new cage, and get another flight to Cusco.
This is just one of the many complaints I have against LAN. So I am for anything that will help LAN treat their customers with respect and will make them actually care about their customers.

[gerard]

It seems quite condescending to state that anyone who holds a different opinion to the theme of the topic hasn't lived here long enough to know better or might run a bad business. One might equally well argue that anyone who has had a bad experience with LAN or who is involved with Prom Peru or LAN or a travel agency that depends on them can't give an objective opinion, but I'm not going to say that.

Can't we accept that people are allowed to have different opinions and leave the personal stuff out of it? Apart from that I've found this an interesting thread to take part in, although I can't see anyone being swayed by the arguments from either side. Apart from me of course. Originally I was right up there with the "string 'em up" brigade, but after looking at some of the other material I defected to the "what's the fuss" camp. Forunately I hadn't posted anything at that point though