LAN now charging all NON-RESIDENTS a $178.50 fee

[fanning]

Fanning says

Peruvian residents by the way, live by definition in Peru.
Peruvian citizens who live outside Peru are not residents.

That would be your definition, but not that of Lan.

This is not my definition, it is the definition used by Peruvian tax ( SUNAT )
LAN apparently uses a wider definition ( ANY Peruvian, and CE holders )

Again, fanning, there are people caught up in this, it is clearly a problem.

In previous posts I said I expect LAN to make exceptions for people who bought their tickets before September 4 ( the date you made your article, and the date that LAN actually made it very clear on their website)

Again, Fanning, Lan is selling tickets to people not eligable for this far in Lan's own offices, it is clearly a problem.

Totally agree, and I suspect that LAN will handle these cases with consideration and simply make it impossible for anybody to make a booking without being a resident. ( I checked their website, and they clearly show that only residents can book, but they still make it possible for non-residents to actually book. That is bad web-programming of LAN, and they should fix it.

Again, Fanning, there are people who would click on Peru because they currently live here but do not meet the residency requirement for these fares and it is not made clear, that is clearly a problem,

It is made clear ! They show it on the main website, and during several steps of the reservation process. Only somebody who deliberately doesn't want to see the warning doesn't see it.

Again, Fanning, Lan is allowing people to sell these tickets in agencies and on third party website with no disclaimers and then again charging the passengers the fines when they show up, that is clearly a problem.

Repeat of my answer ( it is a repeat remark .. )

Again, Fanning, Cookies would mean many computers at cabinas and in hotels would automatically open the Lan Peru website without the need to click Peru and people are then on the unclear website through no fault of their own...again, this is clearly a problem.

No problem, as the Lan Peru website clearly shows the restrictions !

It no world, no way shape or form is it anything less than a problem when a company sells something, offers a promotion, does not properly, openly and clearly qualify it then charge unsuspecting clients outragous fines for not following the unknown and unclear rules.

Your comfort with that makes me want to know if you have a business because if that is your value of customer service, I would like to be forwarned.

Sorry, but this is a personal remark. I think I used valid arguments in my various posts, so I will ignore this remark.


I can live with the fact that we disagree on this matter, but I just tried to see it from their point of view. They have tried closing loopholes in their bookingsystem, and made some glitches in that process. I expect LAN to fix those glitches, and use consideration in the tickets bought from the 1st to the 4th ( or the date that they make it totally impossible for non-residents to book those promotional fares )
As a webprogrammer, and running a business I know that what for you seems logic, can ( and will ) be misinterpreted by your customers. One example: My website offers hotelrooms, and by that also Triple rooms. I thought it was logic that Triple rooms are for three people only, but I hadn't blocked the option that a Triple room also could be booked for 4 persons. So the day arrives, that the 4 people show up, and don't take my logic ( a Triple room is for THREE people ) for granted and insist. I gave in give them their triple room for 4 persons, and changed the website ( for future bookings ).. Or I give a free transfer from the airport if you book on my website, for at least two nights. So not when you book on a travelagent website. But if you are not completely clear about that condition ( that the offer is only valid if you book directly with me ) then you get angry customers. So I have put those conditions in a CLEAR link on the website, to avoid customers starting to state that I am cheating them.

[cajun jamie]

Finally!

I am so glad thousands of people have read this thread. People are Twittering, blogging and the foreign press is reporting it!

MANY THANKS to all of you who helped make this possible.

LAN really messed up and they very soon will answer for it.

Yes!



PS: I have gotten several e-mails from people with CE cards asking me to stop rocking the boat. I know you like having tourists offset your prices for LAN tickets. Sorry, that's dirty pool. The foreign media is running with this, so no more debating or in-fighting from me.

[mahou123]

Lan is allowing people to sell these tickets in agencies and on third party website with no disclaimers and then again charging the passengers the fines when they show up.

Out of curiosity, can you specify which website is selling LAN tickets for internal Peruvian flights with 'residents only' prices and no disclaimer? Because I can't find any.

[cajun jamie]

Just a hint for anyone who is against what LAN is doing.

Avoid this debate. The press is running with it and in-fighting only fuels the other side.

We've almost won. Let the battle take it's course!

Continue to spread the word. Continue to be persistent. But don't get dragged into the idiocracy that is so tempting.

jb

[Kelly]

Have you got some links to where this is being reported Jamie? I was googling, and couldn't find anything.

[americorps]

Gerard,

You are simply glossing over facts that exist, and I have to wonder why you simply do not address those facts?

It is not a matter of opinion that they botched this as is evidenced by the people displaced, it is a matter of fact and it is not a matter of opinion that they claim they did not botch this, that too is a matter of fact.

It is one thing to have a different opinion, quite another to simply deny facts.

[MartitaAQP]

Over the years I've brought hundreds of North Americans to Peru and have had SO many fights with Lan over SO many injustices that I truly thought it couldn't get any worse.

Like everyone else, I've always bought the flights IN peru until recently realized I could use a US based credit card online for prices from the Peruvian site (something not allowed in the past). I am a resident, but since I live in Arequipa and LAN is the only Lima-Arequipa provider, this leaves me with flights now costing nearly three times as much for someone to come visit me! 32 hours roundtrip in a bus is not very practical for short visits.

Frustrating.

They didn't create a new price for Peruvian residents; they excluded extranjeros from the EXISTING price.

[gerard]

I've re-read my replies and can't quite see what "facts" I'm denying here. I agreed people had been mis-sold tickets. I agreed LAN had handled it badly. I wasn't sure if the $178 was a fixed fee but no-one has provided any "facts" about that. I was happy to take your word that the LAN guy also hosts an RPP show.

Do I think LAN set out with a policy of deliberately selling non-eligible people cheap tickets so they could charge them $178 at the airport and create a huge fuss and bad press? No.
Do I think this thead is good for Peruvian tourism as was asked earlier? No.
Do I think US media outlets will draw a distinction between one specific airline charging non-residents more and the others? No.
Do I think it might play out as "Don't go to Peru - they'll rip you off? Yes.
Do I think it reasonable for a mod to suggest that people with a differing opinion should stop posting and are idiots? No, and suspect that if a normal member made a post that did it'd be deleted.
Do I need another list of the "facts" I'm denying? Please, no ! I think everyone's pretty clear on where things stand.

Perhaps more amazing is that this thread is longer than the Chavez thread, and I know which I think should be considered more important. Now there is a good conspiracy theory - SA leader pays major airline to screw over gringos and create a diversion from their discussion about him.

[Chiclayo gringo]

It is incredible to me how we so often describe our impressions, opinions and constructs as facts. It would be an interesting exercise to look at some of the more assertive posts in this thread as if they were Wikipedia entries, and see how many of the assertions would be tagged *citation needed.

Tom

[iron butterfly]

I think there have been at least 3 other request for sources, all ignored. All we have is "a lady who answers the phone" at IPERU "a partner who reads e mail" at IPERU and a foreign press that is running with the story, which way are they running? For the hills? I would really like to see or hear from anyone that went to an airport and paid $178 extra or was left at the airport. Thanks

[americorps]

Yes, first hand documentation, employees of the ministry of tourism, direct contact with Lan.

and you simply choose to deny those sources, they do not mean they do not exist, it only means you do not like them so you pretend they do not exist.

Conveninet, yet dishonest as they are are all verifiable.

Plus the info from the Lan website clearly poorly labeled and misleading, plus the very verifiable comments from other people here about third party websites selling tickets and Lan then charging the customer and not the third party.

[gerard]

I probably shouldn't have, but as it was pointed out that everything is easily googleable, I had a quick look for that LAN chappy who has allegedly killed this story in the local press. Turns out he's worked for some pretty shady organizations

Roberto Del Águila
Dirección de Medios y RRPP
Tiene una larga trayectoria como periodista y editor en diferentes medios locales (Diario La Razón, revista Caretas, Radioprogramas del Perú, Canales de Televisión 5, 7 y 13). También ha trabajado en comunicación institucional y corporativa para organizaciones como Unicef, el Centro Peruano de Estudios Sociales (CEPES), el Instituto Libertad y Democracia (ILD) y la Comisión de Promoción del Perú (PromPerú). Es docente en Periodismo y Comunicación Corporativa. Actualmente se desempeña como Gerente de Imagen de LAN PERÚ.

Oh the irony! And I am happy to quote my sources: http://salgalu.com/nosotros-salgalu.html. Apologies for the Spanish quote.

[americorps]

Hence, thank you for showing that he has editorial powers at RPP and insider knowledge of Prom Peru.

My point exactly.

[gerard]

Just noticed that way back in the original post it did show a LAN website cut stating that the fee was a fixed $178.50, so happy to accept that as fact.

I am confused a little though as I thought people were complaining to PromPeru but the fact that Sr Del Aguilla used to work for them somehow counts against him. Another interpretation might be that as someone with an interest in promoting Peruvian tourism when the issue was pointed out to him he returned your call personally and got LAN to change their (Peruvian at least) website pretty quickly.

And just so there's no confusion, I don't work for LAN, but I am flying them (LIM-MIA) in Feb next year and would be more than happy to accept an upgrade (2 adults, 1 child, 6th Feb back on the 20th )

[americorps]

I am surprise you miss the conflict of interest. He has ties to the press that should be reporting on him, he has ties to the agency that will be forwarding him complaints. His interests, however, are his full time employer, LAN.

IF RPP were to investigate this issue at Lan, their source would also be one of their journalists. Prom-Peru has no investigative powers, but if they decide to take issue, the good-old-boy network would undoubtedly play a factor and if you do not think so, I would akin that to living in Mr. Rogers neighborhood.

As far as calling this a vast conspiracy as has been contriubted to me, I laugh at the dramatic interpretation and simply re-point to the facts. A news organization who has one of their reporters also serving as the source for an independent news story conforms to no ethical standard of conduct I have ever heard of.

Fairly worth the question, I would say.

[iron butterfly]

Lets say an independent hungry reporter investigated this. What would this reporter find, upon investigation? That he immediately remedied the problem when it was pointed out to him?

[americorps]

I have seen no remedy. The letters are slightly bigger, third party sites are still selling the tickets with impunity and no admission of error or apology to those affected is forthcoming.

Other than that, mrs. lincoln, how was the play.

[gerard]

So it would be unethical for RPP to run the story, and they didn't. Damn those ethical journalists.

There's no conspiracy but the old boys network will kick-in and quash any investigation. Damn those non-conspiracies.

Still confused as to what the end result desired is.

Drop the promo? Why if it helps residents fly cheaper?
Make it clearer on their web site? They have.
Pay back anyone they have made pay extra? Unlikely but could be done if they paid by cc.
Parade LAN chiefs through Lima in sackcloth and ashes? Probably not severe enough.
Get foreign media to trash Peru? Probably getting there.

[americorps]

i have to question your motives, I think you are just baiting me now as you are saying random things.

The solution would be to forgive the victims, apologize to them, use modern 21st century web tools to make this much more clear, Make it clear when you select the fare that it is not available to foriegners as currently the disclaimer is still presented after the reservation is made but before the payment. Make it clear that if the tickets were purchased through a third party that the third party will be held liable, not the tourist, if the tickets were issues through Lan offices, then honor the ticket.

You said:

Drop the promo? Why if it helps residents fly cheaper?

Of course I have repeated stated over and over that I have no problem whatsoever with a promotion to promote Peruvians to travel within Peru offering them discount prices, I do not see that anyone has a problem with that..so why i have to wonder did you make that statement.

The only answer I can come up with is because it is a bait, a passive agressive way to attack me. It is clearly a dishonest question based on the repeated comments by me and others who agree with me that this is clearly not the issue, but you wanted to say it anyway because you felt it has an emotional impact.

It is clear now, your personal motives and I am not playing that game. Have fun though.

[gerard]

I'm definitely not trying to aggravate you and if it's coming across that way then I'm happy to apologise. Others have commented that the promo is not giving cheaper fares to residents and just makes non-residents pay more, so asking if an aim was to stop the promo seemed reasonable.

Your other answers succintly outline what you're looking for. Not sure how LAN would go about some of them for passengers who have already flown, but I and others have agreed that people who were mis-sold tickets by 3rd parties should have the fee waived.

As to the web site, I've just looked at it again and and to me there appears to be clear references to some prices being available to residents only, there's a link to that explains what this means, and there's a yellow triangle staing it again on the page showing the prices. At some point people have take responsibility for what they book.

As to my motives, do we need motives to join in a topic now? I thought this was a discussion forum and that's what we've been doing. The internet isn't always a great place to hold what can become heated debate as so many nuances are lost, so again, apologies if my comments have offended you.

[naturegirl]

Guys, please stop fighting with each other and fight together, against the problem. United we stand, divided we fall, you know.

[gerard]

What did United do? I didn't know they even flew out Peru

[iron butterfly]

I did not know there was a problem, that is what I have been trying to determine. So... it is at United?

[LauraMH]

OK, please help me out here. Please show me where, on the USA English site, does it clearly state after selecting Peru as a travel itinerary: "If you are a Peruvian resident, you are entitled to cheaper fares. Please click on this link for other pricing."

That is all I want to see, in English, LAN clearly state there are cheaper fares for Peruvian residents.

Or, just add another column, on the English page, with the cheaper fare and label it "Peru Residents Only".[/quote

This is a reasonable comment. Disclosure. But most companies seem to prefer crimes of omission rather than comission.

[LauraMH]

[quote="mahou123"]I just looked at Lan website. They state quite clear now that ´tarifa base´ is for Peruvian residents (DNI or CE) only. However, there are 3 other tarifas, that are ok for everyone. For Lima -Chiclayo flight, difference in price between base and base plus is $25 each way for dates I looked. $178 is a fine for booking tarifa base and not being a resident of Peru. Base plus also allows changes and gives 100% frequent flyer points, unlike the base one. Depending on how to value this, one might consider buying base plus even if the cheaper one, base, was for everyone. Although for other destinations, price difference can be higher or lower.

I agree. I misunderstood. I thought it was all tickets purchased on the Peru site. However I realize now it is only the cheapest tickets. The other tiers can be purchased without any additional fee. If this is the case then I find it to be fair. In country tourism should be encouraged and it includes residents as well (people with carnet too). The next level up is still a fair price.

The part that concerns me is the non-disclosure for those who purchased it without any knowledge. However, it seems that is now clearly remedied.

[gerard]

The US site doesn't let you book the promo prices so there's no need for the disclaimer. I don't know whether this is a change they've made or was always the case.

There was a suggestion made that Peruvian residents may use the US or other country sites and hence miss out on the promo.

[american_in_lima]

Interesting to watch the votes in this forum. Out of 25 votes, 11 are them either disagree with Lan are aren't sure. I voted that Lan was wrong, but that is just my opinion.

At the end of the day, regardless if the press covers the story or not, the market will correct itself. Do I think that people will stop coming to Peru because Lan raised their prices? No. However, I do think they will fly a different airline such as Star Peru.

I just recommend taking a different airline

A comment that has not been brought up yet is that of the park ticket and train ticket to Macchu Pichu. As a resident it's a lot cheaper than as a tourist. That seems to me more of an abuse than a "tourist tax" from Lan.But in Florida, I paid less for Orlando parks than non Floridians, so it does happen.

Anyway, in sum, Fly Star Peru.

I probably spend $500 to $1000 a year with Lan. In ten years, they just lost $5000 to $10,000 just in one customer.

[gerard]

I misread the earlier post - I thought it was asking for the disclaimer for non-residents to be shown, not for residents to be pointed to the promo prices. It could be done but surely that's a business decision for LAN. I'm not aware of any other airline sites that do it though. I was looking at KLM the other day and their specials are targetted at the country you're booking from, although I don't believe you can book flights that start in other countries from the wrong country's web site, so to speak.

If LAN did of course, then they'd also need to do the same for all promos in other countries that their residents might be entitled to, which could make for a confusing home page. I can understand why they might consider it simpler to restrict promos to each country specific site.

[iron butterfly]

Since this promotion is for domestic flights, maybe you can only purchase tickets in Peru.

[gerard]

I don't think so. I haven't gone as far as to buy tickets, but you can certainly put Peruvian cities as your start and end end points in all of the LAN country specific sites and get prices. For other country sites you just get the standard fares - no mention of a promo.

I'd imagine that prices also very between different country sites to take into acount local taxation, currency fluctuations etc.