Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

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Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby scott » Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:57 pm

He got away with murder once, hopefully this time they will put him away... If he is proven guilty. Five years to the date after the Aruba murder.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/02/report-natalee-holloway-suspect-sought-murder-peru/

LIMA, Peru -- A young Dutchman previously arrested in the 2005 disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway is the prime suspect in a weekend murder of a Peruvian woman, police said Wednesday.

Criminal police chief Gen. Cesar Guardia told a news conference that Joran van der Sloot was being sought in the Sunday killing of 21-year-old Stephany Flores in a Lima hotel. Guardia said the suspect fled the country the next day by land to Chile.

The Dutch government said Interpol has issued an international arrest warrant for him.

Guardia said van der Sloot, 22, who was in the country for a poker tournament, appears with the young woman in a video taken at a Lima casino early Sunday.

The victim's father, Ricardo Flores, told reporters she was killed about 8 a.m. that morning in a hotel room that was splattered with blood, indicating a struggle.

The killing occurred exactly five years after the May 30, 2005, disappearance in Aruba of Holloway.


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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby Kelly » Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:24 pm

My mom and I were just commenting on it having been the same date - makes you wonder where he's been the last few May 30's, and if maybe there are some other missing women.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby scott » Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:30 pm

My wife and I were too. It really is tragic. He should have been in prison already.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby Wine Lover » Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:51 pm

The date seems pure coincidence to me.
However what I do find suspicious is that he fled by land to Chile.
Let's see a copy of his landing card at immigration.
How long was he planning to stay?

So a dutch guy was seen sitting next to her at a poker table and they appeared to be getting along very well.

She died in a hotel room.
Where is the knife, has it been found?
Who rented the hotel room, under whose name?
Was any semen found?
Due to his priors, can they match DNA from the semen in the hotel?
Does the hotel have cameras showing the dutchman enter and leave?
What statement have hotel reception staff given?
Does she have a boyfriend with Jealous tendencies?
Does her father have any business competitors who are pissed off with him?
What type of knife was used? WHere can it be obtained in Lima?
Could the dutchman have brought the knife in the casino with him and had it on him the whole time or did he go and fetch it beforehand?

It will be an interesting to wait to see what evidence against the suspect they can gather.

EDIT - even more suspect fleeing to CHile by land now.
Check this latest noticia out
http://www.rpp.com.pe/2010-06-02-joran-van-der-sloot-pago-mil-780-soles-para-que-lo-saquen-del-pais-noticia_269525.html
Last edited by Wine Lover on Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby scott » Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:46 pm

Oh joy of joys... lets make it personal... again.

God forbid you ever serve on a jury because in spite of a mountain of evidence you would refuse to believe a person to be guilty of anything.

If you read the articles published by about 50 different TV stations and their affiliated websites enough of those questions have been answered for an international arrest warrant to be issued.

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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby Rene » Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:10 pm

I agree with Wine Lover, so far it is all circumstancial evidence. In the Dutch newspaper they mentioned that the hotel room was in Joran's name. That makes it all more suspicious, but that still doesn't proof that Joran was the killer. Could it be that some people found his presence very convenient to commit their crime and frame Joran for it (considering his previous case)? Not saying that that is it, but proper investigation needs to be done to make this case "beyond reasonal doubt".

Scott, in most countries in this world, including Peru and US, you're innocent until proven guilty. So far the Aruba Justice Department has not been able to proof the alledged kiling of Ms Holloway by Joran vd Sloot (they cannot even proof she is dead since they don't have the body). So until they do he must be considered innocent. In the last 12 months several prisoners in the US have been released after serving many years as DNA testing proved they couldn't have done it. Let's not add another case to this list simply because we want to punish someone instead of finding the truth.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby americorps » Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:21 pm

I have to worry about people who would convict someone based only on circumstantial evidence. I would not be surprised if eventually there might be enough evidence to find this man guilty. but all the armchair CSI who read some articles in a paper and think they have enough to convict scare me.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby scott » Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:08 pm

If he is proven guilty.


I agree. Never did I say he was guilty of the murder in Peru. Enough evidence exists that Peru was able to get Interpol to issue an arrest warrant. Probable cause has to exist for a warrant to be issued. Hopefully they will arrest him and extradite him back to Peru to face those charges. If enough evidence exists he will have a trial in a Peruvian court. If he is found guilty, he should rot in prison.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby Rene » Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:52 pm

scott wrote:He got away with murder once, hopefully this time they will put him away...

scott wrote:He should have been in prison already.

You already made your verdict on the other case... but the same principles apply. If Aruba finds compelling evidence against him then they can have Interpol go after him for that case as well. But they have not.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby iskndarbey » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:28 am

Not sure why so many people feel compelled to rise to his defense here -- he was caught on tape bragging about how he and his friends dumped the last girl's body at sea five years ago and now there's another body in his hotel room and he's fled the country. Sure he's innocent until proven guilty but he doesn't inspire great confidence, to say the least.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby Rene » Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:10 am

iskndarbey wrote:Not sure why so many people feel compelled to rise to his defense here -- he was caught on tape bragging about how he and his friends dumped the last girl's body at sea five years ago and now there's another body in his hotel room and he's fled the country. Sure he's innocent until proven guilty but he doesn't inspire great confidence, to say the least.

I'm not defending him at all, if he's guilty he shall be punished. But I do believe in the course of law and fair trials and I'm against branding anyone before he's found guilty by a proper court. Bragging on a tape is NOT a confession and will therefore not be accepted by a judge. With all this prejudice one can already wonder if he will ever get a fair trial...
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby scott » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:34 am

They are just trolling because I irritate them, get used to it.

You already made your verdict on the other case... but the same principles apply. If Aruba finds compelling evidence against him then they can have Interpol go after him for that case as well. But they have not.


I like most, feel he got away with murder in the first case... Get over it. It is my opinion.

His daddy was one of the most powerful judges in Aruba. He claimed other people were responsible for the crime. When they were cleared in the investigation he pointed fingers in different directions. He was arrested twice and released most likely due to his dad's influence. Dad is dead now, so he is on his own this time.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby americorps » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:40 am

Get over it. It is my opinion.


?? What you are saying is that you have some right to post your opinion on a chat board, but those who feel opposite should get over it?

I would suggest if you wish not to be challenged or criticized, you might not want to share your opinions on a chat board.

I have to agree, your comments about his guilt are very contrary to your later comments about how you feel about the justice system and I was glad to see that pointed out as I too feel the rule of law is an essential element.

I would not disagree with you that there are some things that, to us, appear askew in his past, but you nor I were there and are nothing more than armchair jurists and were not there, did not see what happened ourselves and I think civilized society must respect the rule of law...no matter what country.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby rgamarra » Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:01 am

I was surprised by how quick the Peruvian authorities were to point the finger at Joran for this girl's murder and I find it odd that Joran would know how to use the Tacna/Arica border to leave the country...It certainly makes one go "hmmm?"

But aside from all the speculation, I think this incident should be used as an example for Peruvian bricheras who make it a sport to pick up and hook up with random gringos. Remember the young woman who was killed by her "husband" from Pennsylvania and then had her body stuffed in a suitcase and dumped in Chorrillos? Unfortunately it's a part of the Peruvian culture to blindly trust foreigners.

I'm not quite convinced yet that he (Joran) killed this Peruvian girl, but admissibility of the Dutch hidden video aside, he makes some pretty damning statements in respect to the Natalee Holloway case that (in the court of public opinion) has me convinced that he was no doubt involved with Natalee's death and disappearance. It's evident he has very little respect and empathy for women.

I don't think Lori Berenson will be the single, most hated foreigner in Peru anymore after this.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby Kelly » Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:49 pm

Well, he's been arrested in Chile, so we'll see what happens next.

Van der Sloot arrested in Chile, police say http://su.pr/5UdVwE
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby Rene » Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:43 pm

scott wrote:His daddy was one of the most powerful judges in Aruba. He claimed other people were responsible for the crime. When they were cleared in the investigation he pointed fingers in different directions. He was arrested twice and released most likely due to his dad's influence. Dad is dead now, so he is on his own this time.

One of the most powerful judges in Aruba? He was nothing more than a trainee. And during the case he resigned and became a lawyer.

"most likely due to his dad's influence"? "Most likely" doesn't cut it in court. Surely, if this case gets acquitted in Peru you'll also state that it's due to corruption of the judges. But if he is convicted you'll say it was a fair trial and that the prominent father of the victim or the public opinion had no role whatsoever in it. Am I right?
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby Rene » Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:06 pm

scott wrote:They are just trolling because I irritate them, get used to it.

Don't give yourself that much credit...
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby iskndarbey » Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:14 pm

rgamarra wrote:I find it odd that Joran would know how to use the Tacna/Arica border to leave the country...It certainly makes one go "hmmm?"


Yeah, that bit definitely is complicated. I know when I went down there I stood dumbfounded for several days, looking at Chile over there, and Peru over here, before I understood what was expected of me. :roll:
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby Alan » Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:12 pm

Kelly wrote:Van der Sloot arrested in Chile, police say http://su.pr/5UdVwE


Thanks for the link. The article gives a lot of the background as well as a short video image of him under arrest in Chile..... surprisingly with no handcuffs.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby Kelly » Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:56 pm

iskndarbey wrote:
rgamarra wrote:I find it odd that Joran would know how to use the Tacna/Arica border to leave the country...It certainly makes one go "hmmm?"


Yeah, that bit definitely is complicated. I know when I went down there I stood dumbfounded for several days, looking at Chile over there, and Peru over here, before I understood what was expected of me. :roll:


Perhaps he read the articles and information on Border Hopping here at Expat. :roll:
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby scott » Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:16 pm

Looks like more trouble for Joran:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/03/holloway-suspect-accused-ala-trying-extort-k-disclose-bodys-location/

MONTGOMERY, Ala. (AP) — A Dutch man suspected in the 2005 disappearance of Natalee Holloway in Aruba was charged Thursday in Alabama with trying to extort $250,000 in return for disclosing the location of her body.

A criminal complaint by the U.S. Attorney in federal court in Birmingham also accused van der Sloot in May 2010 of promising to describe the circumstances of Holloway's death in return for the money. According to a sworn statement, van der Sloot got a partial payment of $15,000 wired to a Netherlands bank soon after.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby mammalu » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:23 pm

The guy is a pathological lier. 5 years ago we couldn't believe how such a young person, he was 17, could be so callous in his statements. The worst lie was when he stated that he (actually they, with his 2 other friends) left Natalee Halloway at the Marriot Hotel, which was a total lie after the surveillance videos of the hotel were examined. Then he changed his version as he left her at the Beach. This is more than circumstantial, it is sick...

As parents, we were so frustrated with this investigation that my husband (those who know him from this Forum, are aware he is a calm person ) strongly opposed to us vacationing in Aruba at all , avoiding even any Cruise ship calling that port.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby Rene » Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:33 pm

mammalu wrote:The guy is a pathological lier. 5 years ago we couldn't believe how such a young person, he was 17, could be so callous in his statements. The worst lie was when he stated that he (actually they, with his 2 other friends) left Natalee Halloway at the Marriot Hotel, which was a total lie after the surveillance videos of the hotel were examined. Then he changed his version as he left her at the Beach. This is more than circumstantial, it is sick...

Agreed. But being a sick pathological liar does not make you a murderer yet. Being a sick pathological liar is not illegal nor criminal. If the police have nothing else to go for then what comes out of his mouth, then they simply have nothing to convict him for.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby Wine Lover » Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:43 pm

This case is really fascinating to me because of the passion it has brought out in the Peruvian people.
They are united with a common enemy, a gringo.

Does anyone watch the Peruvian noticias in the mornings or read Peruvian newspapers? I can think of 2 murders in the past 72 hours which are just as bad as this and they were both commited by Peruvians.
The first one was the murder of an innocent 60 year old woman in Callao because she was a witness to some illegal activity.
The second, a man douses his wise in gasoline and burns her to death.
A couple of years ago I remember reading about the murder of a gringo English teacher in "Ojo" which had the comical headline "ya hicieron la tarea".

I personally believe this Van Sloot character is guilty based on the circumstantial evidence reported in the media. However I take everything in the Peruvian media with a pinch of salt. The facts are changing everyday and lead to some very interesting questions
Firstly she was stabbed to death and there was blood all over the room
Today we read she was bashed to death or strangled to death.
The body was found on Tuesday so why wasn't the room attended to after the Dutchman left early sunday? Can someone tell me if this was the suspects Primary place of residence during his stay in Peru or was he staying in another hotel?

The Peruvian justice system love to accuse a foreigner and in this country it is guilty until proven innocent.

I know of 3 unfair cases against extranjeros in this country. 2 witnessed by my wife and the 3rd in the media.

My wife was at a Peluqueria in San Borja. A hungarian diplomat was playing with his 18 month year old son in one of those mounted cars used to put children to cut their hair.
Their was a strange little boy about 7 years old who kept hitting the baby saying to him "no te metes conmigo bebe" and also pinching him. The baby was laughing and thought it was a game. After a few more times the little kid starting hitting him a little more so the father put his arm between the baby and the boy and receives the hits himself in order to protect the baby.
About 5 minutes later a 40 year old middle/upper class Peruvian male dressed in a shirt tucked into his jeans and leather shoes come storming into the childrens room and approached the hungarain diplomat saying "quien cree que es, pegando niños, nadie toque mijo, nadie" The hungarian told him that he didnt touch his son and that his son is probably lying.
They chested each other and It looked like it was going to turn into fisticuffs but the Peruvian retreated.
10 minutes later 3 police officer come into the Peluqueria and outside were 3 4wd Police cars.
The diplomat was arrested and taken off kicking and screaming. It should be noted that there were 4 women getting pedicures in front of the whole scene, yet these women didnt say a word when the police arrived, however these 4 women managed to tell my wife and the rest of the women in the establishment what happened.
Last we heard of it was that he was locked up for 6 days before negotiating a bribe with the police and the guy who accused him to drop the charges.

The Second incident happened at Jockey Plaza about 5 years ago.
A 4 year old boy lost his parents and was very distressed but no one would pay attention to him. A gringo waiting outside a store for his woman to try on some clothes knelt down and starting talking to him. 10 minutes later the mother and father arrive and are hysterical. The mother starts attacking the gringo calling him pedophile and all sorts of names and within a few minutes the gringo is taken away by secuity and later taken to prison. Apparently it took 2 years for him to get a trial and by this time the parents of the little boy had forgotten about the incident and didnt wish to proceed and he was released.
If you are male, and ever see a small child in distress, do not under any circumstances approach the child. Never ever touch a child that is not your own in Peru

The 3rd incident was posted on here about the British guy in a tangle for following a girl from Britain to Peru and ended up in jail for drug trafficing. Clearly innocent.

This dutch character certainly appears guilty but don't get your hopes up about reading about a fair and just trial in the papers everyday when his case is due.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby americorps » Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:45 pm

Rene is so right.

What makes us different from them is rules and laws. If we set a law aside every time we have an emotional reaction, no matter how justified, then we would be chaos. We are not mob rule...it seems so many here would rather be running the guy down the street with pitchforks and torches.

These same laws protect us from being wrongfully accused and imprisoned. In cases like this, when emotion makes us want to bypass them, they become vunerable and if we let them erode, they will not be there to protect the innocent either.

Hang in there Rene, some of us prefer the rule of law to vigelante chaos.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby mammalu » Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:01 pm

Absurd to say that people who voice their opinion are 'vigilantes'.

Add to the 'alleged' murder the extorsion charges and the money he collected to travel to South America, and it all comes down to character.

And correct me if I am wrong. Lying to the police when making an official statement or being interrogated is a crime.

Americorps, I have followed this case for years. I read everything as it hit home, when you have children the same age. I felt for both his parents and the young american girl;s mother. But, in my gut, his behaviour (which I agree, has nothing to do with the outcome of being guilty or not), bordered on being a sociopath. Joking, laughing, bragging (or lying) on a video. Something very wrong and disturbing with this young man.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby scott » Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:06 pm

Shrek and others seem to be able to read minds and convey the thoughts of others. Inferring their own twisted logic into things that are never written.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby Rene » Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:22 pm

Wine Lover wrote:This case is really fascinating to me because of the passion it has brought out in the Peruvian people.
They are united with a common enemy, a gringo.

That thought was also going through my head. But that is not limited to Peru. The whole Ms Holloway thing became such a big case in the US for three reasons: the location is a popular vacation destination outside of the US, parents with plenty of money with a desire to chase for punishment (not necessarily the truth) and a good looking white teenaged girl as the victim. Are the many murders that took place at the same time on American soil covered that much? Is any US citizen, other than the direct family, that outraged over yet another killing of a black boy in the hoods? Do they no longer travel to New York City because of the homocide rate? Why were (and still are apparently) they so passionate/obsessed with this case only?

I'm looking forward to the arguments...
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby Rene » Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:31 pm

mammalu wrote:Add to the 'alleged' murder the extorsion charges and the money he collected to travel to South America, and it all comes down to character.

Bad character is not punishable by law.

mammalu wrote:And correct me if I am wrong. Lying to the police when making an official statement or being interrogated is a crime.

In Dutch law, and I reckon the law of Aruba is the same or similar, a false testimony is only punishable when made under oath in the court of law.

mammalu wrote:But, in my gut, his behaviour (which I agree, has nothing to do with the outcome of being guilty or not), bordered on being a sociopath. Joking, laughing, bragging (or lying) on a video. Something very wrong and disturbing with this young man.

His behavior is not something I could appreciate either, he would definitely not be my friend, but again it's not punishable by law.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby Rene » Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:32 pm

scott wrote:Inferring their own twisted logic into things that are never written.

Such as you're twisting facts into something that was never proven?
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby rgamarra » Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:52 am

A.) There are some really cynical people on here.

B.) Kelly: Who knows, you might be right. A trip from Lima to Arica is no day trip. Unless a foreigner has done a little reading, how are they to know which border is the easiest one to hop?

C.) It's getting very hard to believe by the day that this guy is innocent. The dates may be a coincidence, but two girls dead after going off alone with this guy is not. I agree with Mammalu, if you watch all the video of this kid, his behavior is very, very disturbing. I certainly wouldn't want my daughters associating with a young man of his type...It's disgusting!

D.) So is he innocent of extortion? I'm sure the U.S. has trumped up those charges, too, right? This kid has already proven that he is prone to criminal behavior...Extortion charges come as no surprise.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby Alan » Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:06 am

What I find interesting about this case is that the father is a very, very influential businessman. I had no idea just how connected and influential until I heard the list of attendees at the girls funeral; it reads like the Peruvian "who´s who". Mayors, congressmen.... some very powerful people. Guilty or not, if this kid is extradited to Peru, he is in for a very, very rough ride once he arrives.

Say --- crime and punishment aside for a second --- could we tone down the bickering just a tad?

Cheers,

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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby americorps » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:20 am

I think very few people think he is innocent and very few feel any sympathy for this man. Nor do I think much of anyone is upset for saying this guy is a creep and a cretin.

I think the discussion lies more in the call of denying him his civil rights and bypassing the laws to get him convicted because we are upset he is on the streets...that is clearly what I am likening to villigers with torches and pitchforks.

This is the same thing, only in a modern more sophisticated way. The police and criminal system was unable to convict him, and that makes us all upset, but to use that fear and anger to suggest you should be convicted simply because he is a jerk and we are scared of him is very dangerous.

Again, if we bypass the law because we are scared and angry, the law will not be there in case any of us need it.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby PTTurboe » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:59 am

He will get off-ed in jail. You don't kill a connected Peruvian's daughter and get away with it. This ain't Kansas... Or Aruba....
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby scott » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:37 pm

americorps wrote:I think the discussion lies more in the call of denying him his civil rights and bypassing the laws to get him convicted because we are upset he is on the streets...that is clearly what I am likening to villigers with torches and pitchforks.

Again, if we bypass the law because we are scared and angry, the law will not be there in case any of us need it.


More bad news for poor Joran:

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/489686/embajada-holanda-no-le-pagara-abogado-joran-van-der-sloot

Once again you have spun things that were never stated. I can't speak for others, nor will I put my words in their mouths... I am all for due process and made that quite clear. Nobody even remotely suggested vigilante justice for him.

I really hope something like this never happens to any of you. I think your opinions would change dramatically if it did.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby euroman » Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:27 pm

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN...WE GOT HIM.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby rgamarra » Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:47 pm

americorps wrote:I think very few people think he is innocent and very few feel any sympathy for this man. Nor do I think much of anyone is upset for saying this guy is a creep and a cretin.

I think the discussion lies more in the call of denying him his civil rights and bypassing the laws to get him convicted because we are upset he is on the streets...that is clearly what I am likening to villigers with torches and pitchforks.

This is the same thing, only in a modern more sophisticated way. The police and criminal system was unable to convict him, and that makes us all upset, but to use that fear and anger to suggest you should be convicted simply because he is a jerk and we are scared of him is very dangerous.

Again, if we bypass the law because we are scared and angry, the law will not be there in case any of us need it.


Peruvian law enforcement and the judicial system is not as evolved as the Chileans and I think realistically we all need to realize that Peruvian justice is not blind...Maybe that will change in the future, but this time it will not be the case.

In all fairness, this kid has brought about the passionate tempers of the Peruvian people and the international community upon himself. Instead of staying low-key in an attempt to maintain his claim to innocence during the past 5 years, he has publicly taunted the Holloway family and international authorities continuously. His reputation comes at his own handiwork.

It is sad that other murder cases in Peru aren't pursued with the same vigor and I do think that foreigners are held to a different standard, but then again we aren't Peruvian citizens, so we are entitled to nothing.

He's fortunate to have been captured in Chile, because the lynch mob is still judge, jury and executioner in Peru.

It's one thing to change laws in Peru, but to change cultural attitudes is like trying to poke a mountain with your index finger and expecting it to budge.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby euroman » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:11 pm

A good lawyer, some political influence and you will see, he will be released due to lack of evidence or justice didn´t follow the right procedure or someone comes up with 'evidence has not been given legally'.

This guy did something idiot but he isn´t an idiot.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby Rene » Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:25 pm

http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article/jo ... s/19501701

This article quotes a cousin of the victim saying that she (the victim) had seen a documentary about Joran vd Sloot about a month earlier and "she was shocked by it". And still she meets up with this guy and goes with him to his hotel? There is something fishy about that as well, isn't it?

People also would like to point out the fact that it happened exactly 5 years after Holloway and see a pattern in that. How convenient. In Aruba the body disappeared. In Lima the body was carelessly left behind in the hotel. No pattern there. So why would we believe in one pattern and ignore the other?

The murder would have taken place on Sunday morning, but the body wasn't found until Tuesday! Nobody cleans in that hotel?

And I guess we'll never find out the real cause of death. It is already multiple choice of the following options mentioned in the media:
a. blow to the head
b. broken neck
c. knife stabbing
d. shot

Many questioins still need to be answered before we can nail this on Joran vd Sloot. I pray for him that he at least gets a fair trial....
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby Rene » Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:35 pm

scott wrote:I really hope something like this never happens to any of you. I think your opinions would change dramatically if it did.

Indeed, I woudn't want to be accused of something and be branded by the public opinion as you all do before having a chance to defend myself. Regardless of how crazy, sick etc I would be.

From a parent or direct family I can understand outrage, I would be outraged myself, but not for any other member of the public who have never ever known the victim before. See my questions earlier about all other murder cases.

I will discuss with my wife never to go on holiday to Peru again, the place isn't safe :?
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby Kelly » Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:47 pm

Rene wrote:http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article/joran-van-der-sloot-is-to-blame-cousin-of-peru-victim-says/19501701

This article quotes a cousin of the victim saying that she (the victim) had seen a documentary about Joran vd Sloot about a month earlier and "she was shocked by it". And still she meets up with this guy and goes with him to his hotel? There is something fishy about that as well, isn't it?


You added in 'the victim' there, but that's not what the story says. By "she" the cousin was referring to the person who originally told him about van der Sloot, not Stephany, the victim.

The murder would have taken place on Sunday morning, but the body wasn't found until Tuesday! Nobody cleans in that hotel?


According to the hotel staff, he paid 14 days in advance and asked that no one enter the room.




And I guess we'll never find out the real cause of death. It is already multiple choice of the following options mentioned in the media:
a. blow to the head
b. broken neck
c. knife stabbing
d. shot



There are often inconsistencies reported in the early part of investigations as the media all try to 'scoop' each other. Just because there's bad reporting doesn't mean the police don't know what's going on.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby scott » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:27 pm

Rene wrote:Indeed, I woudn't want to be accused of something and be branded by the public opinion as you all do before having a chance to defend myself. Regardless of how crazy, sick etc I would be.


Interesting you cast yourself in the role of the perpetrator, not the victim.


I will discuss with my wife never to go on holiday to Peru again, the place isn't safe :?


Excellent, one less contrarian to clutter the streets of Peru.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby iskndarbey » Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:28 pm

Can't speak for others but in my experience your chances of being unfairly accused of murder go down significantly if you take care to not leave any stray dead bodies behind in your hotel rooms. Just something to consider if you do plan on vacationing in Peru.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby americorps » Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:51 pm

inks, you are now like Scott, armchair CSI who thinks from some headlines and picking and choosing from conflicthing articles that you have the evidence of the case...you do not and neither do the rest of us.

Now Scott will come and make some snotty comments because he gets irate when questioned, but it does not change the fact that he has nothing more than soundbites and has decided and stated several times that this guy is guilty beyond doubt.

Rene is now being attacked by Scott because she supports the rules of law, the rules that we would hope remain in tact if, God forbid, we should ever be falsly accused. The people here who forget that allow the erosion of our rights and Rene would rather see them in place. When they are their weakest (in this case when the villagers with the torches and pitchforks do not like them because they feel they know better than those who hold all the available facts) that this man is guilty and should be in prison...feel the rules of justice are just an annoyance.

They are not, the are the only thing that makes us different than them and if we loose them, we become them and I am glad Rene shares that value.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby Rene » Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:22 am

scott wrote:
Rene wrote:Indeed, I woudn't want to be accused of something and be branded by the public opinion as you all do before having a chance to defend myself. Regardless of how crazy, sick etc I would be.


Interesting you cast yourself in the role of the perpetrator, not the victim.

Hmmm, using the word "perpetrator" implicates you find him already guilty. While several times above you have tried to make us believe that you had not branded him guilty yet. At least that has been cleared up now...

I place myself in the position of a suspect. Something anyone here can become one day based on the DNA traces you leave behind everyday. I wish everyone the right to defend themselves, just as I would want to able to defend myself. I find it shocking that so many are willing to brush aside those rights for someone else when they don't like that person.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby Rene » Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:24 am

iskndarbey wrote:Can't speak for others but in my experience your chances of being unfairly accused of murder go down significantly if you take care to not leave any stray dead bodies behind in your hotel rooms. Just something to consider if you do plan on vacationing in Peru.

My remark about not vacationing in Peru was meant to be cynical in response to a remark from mammalu about not going to Aruba for what happened there. Sorry that wasn't clear enough.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby Rene » Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:28 am

scott wrote:Excellent, one less contrarian to clutter the streets of Peru.

Hmmm, you make such a personal attack while you get all upset about a personal remark from Wine Lover. (which he respectfully removed). Says a lot about what kind of person you are...

Although I take the term "contrarian" as a compliment assuming it means that I'm an independent thinker...

Instead of making such remarks maybe you could start answering some of the questions I left behind for you...
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby scott » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:03 am

americorps wrote:inks, you are now like Scott, armchair CSI who thinks from some headlines and picking and choosing from conflicthing articles that you have the evidence of the case...you do not and neither do the rest of us.

Now Scott will come and make some snotty comments because he gets irate when questioned, but it does not change the fact that he has nothing more than soundbites and has decided and stated several times that this guy is guilty beyond doubt.

Rene is now being attacked by Scott because she supports the rules of law, the rules that we would hope remain in tact if, God forbid, we should ever be falsly accused. The people here who forget that allow the erosion of our rights and Rene would rather see them in place. When they are their weakest (in this case when the villagers with the torches and pitchforks do not like them because they feel they know better than those who hold all the available facts) that this man is guilty and should be in prison...feel the rules of justice are just an annoyance.

They are not, the are the only thing that makes us different than them and if we loose them, we become them and I am glad Rene shares that value.


At what point did I ever state I do not support the rule of law? Read my posts again. My OP started with the title "Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru." I wrote the headline, that was a statement of fact. I later stated that we he entitled to due process and in case many IFS were fulfilled, he should rot in prison.

So far there is enough evidence to have him arrested and the crime further investigated. Not much disputing that. Interpol, Chile and Peru all seem to agree on that. In think in time, he will be tried and if the evidence supports it, convicted of the murder of Stephany Flores.

I, like most of the world, think he got away with murder in Aruba. The category is news and VIEWS. I am expressing my view.
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby Rene » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:25 am

Kelly wrote:
Rene wrote:There are often inconsistencies reported in the early part of investigations as the media all try to 'scoop' each other. Just because there's bad reporting doesn't mean the police don't know what's going on.

Totally true. And yet you and the others make conclusions based on those news articles that you just claimed to be inconsistent. What does that say about your conclusions? If we would all just wait for the evidence the police and the defense would come up with and would accept the conclusion of the court (that's what "the people" appointed them for in the first place), this whole thing would proceed with a lot more fairness. That's the whole point I'm making here. Too bad that none of you (except for americorps) seem to get that...
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Re: Aruba suspect sought for murder in Peru

Postby Rene » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:36 am

scott wrote:At what point did I ever state I do not support the rule of law?


scott wrote:I, like most of the world, think he got away with murder in Aruba. The category is news and VIEWS. I am expressing my view.

By not following the basic rule of law "innocent until proven guilty" (which you do with your opinion in the Holloway case) you already put the rule of law aside. It doesn't matter if that is "just an opinion". The only things that keep you from acting upon that opinion is that you're not a judge (thank God) nor a criminal yourself (I hope).

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