Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

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Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby Wine Lover » Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:04 pm

Most peruvians I know believe the country is getting taken over by delinquents, what is your opinion?


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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby Remigius » Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:06 pm

Wine Lover wrote:Most peruvians I know believe the country is getting taken over by delinquents, what is your opinion?


A string of negative events always leads to people feeling more unsafe and insecure. Looking back at the last 10 years I cannot say I feel unsafe or less safe. It all depends where you live and the social circles you're in.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby Alpineprince » Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:13 pm

Definitely safer since I got 9mm!
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby tupacperu » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:21 pm

These are not a string of negative events. Peru's economic wealth has increased and so has robberies and assaults and violent crimes.
This is happening all over the country. Those who have not benefit from the new economy in Peru are commiting crimes to obtain their piece of the pie.

Peruvian Times:
Peru sees an average of 442 crimes, 8 homicides daily, former police colonel says
August 10, 2010 by Andean Air Mail & PERUVIAN TIMES · Leave a Comment

An average of 442 crimes and eight homicides are committed every day in Peru, according to retired national police Col. Juan Briceño.

Briceño told Radioprogramas that the nation’s daily crimes include 168 robberies. The country’s murder rate has jumped to 10 per 100,000 population so far this year, up from 4 per 100,000 population in 2002.

In 2008, Briceño co-authored the book “The police that Lima needs” with Gino Costa, a former interior minister, and human rights scholar Carlos Romero.

Despite more officers and resources for the National Police, the increase of crime in Peru is a result of authorities failing to address the root cause of social inclusion, according to Alfonso Gushikén, a public health expert.

Between 2002 and 2007, Peru experienced one of the largest increases in prison population rates in the Americas, according to the 2010 International Statistics on Crime and Justice Report by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC).

Peru’s prison rate population has jumped by almost 40 percent in the five-year period, behind Ecuador, Guyana, Haiti, Brazil and El Salvador.

However despite these figures, Peru still has some of the lowest crime rates in the region.

In terms of homicide rates, Peru’s is the lowest among Andean nations. Criminal justice data from the UNODC shows that Ecuador’s homicide rate reaches almost 20 per 100,000 population, followed by Bolivia at approximately 30 and Colombia at about 35. Venezuela’s homicide rate is above 50, making it one of the highest in the Western Hemisphere along with El Salvador, Guatemala, Trinidad and Tobago and Jamaica.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby mammalu » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:38 pm

More unsafe. It is a shame, but I do not see any improvement in the last 25 years. :oops: :cry:
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby Remigius » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:33 pm

There have always been a lot of robberies and other violent crimes in Peru. What we see happening today is mostly an increase of violence within criminal circuits or obvious targets (money changers and other people walking around with too much money in their pockets). I walk with the same feeling through the streets of Lima as I did 10 years ago, avoiding the very same places as I did then. In fact, certain places have shown a lot of improvement over the years rather than a downfall.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby Ian Hawkes » Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:21 pm

Depends where one lives and how one conducts themselves. Personally I count myself lucky to have left Peru alive, but that's because I made some really stupid choices while there.

When in Trujillo my girlfriend had her handbag snatched from the entrance of the hotel (3 star one on Pizzaro - can't remember the name, but they have one in El Golf too???)
I had a couple of mobile phones nicked - but that was more my fault for being super drunk.

I found Lima pretty safe even around the palace area. The shoe shiners that hang around Larco mar can be a bit threatening if you don't give them 40 lucas for them shining your good brown shoes pink :roll:

I've heard some funky stories about bus travels as well - so I guess Yes Peru is becoming more unsafe. But if you insist on wearing your Rolex and Chipie jeans down the market you're asking for it.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby Xibalba » Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:26 pm

Alpineprince wrote:Definitely safer since I got 9mm!


I would be careful. My novia's father is a police officer and he says the laws regarding self defense are different in Peru than the US. (I am assuming you are from the US, and apologize in advance if I am wrong.)

In Peru, you can't shoot someone who is robbing you. My novia's father said you might get away with shooting someone in the leg, but if you kill the person, you are going to jail even if you were being robbed.

As I posted somewhere else, on my first day in Lima, I was inside and my novia and her father were robbed at gunpoint right outside the house, while I was watching TV inside. I felt impotent and like an idiot, but they both told me it was best. If I had been out there, I would have tried to be a hero or something, and either gotten killed or gotten someone hurt. He just handed over his money and his gun and they took off, and no one got hurt. He had the opportunity to use his weapon, and didn't.

So aim low!!
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby Ian Hawkes » Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:38 pm

Xibalba I think he was joking, not that is it was hilarious but it was a said in joke I think. come on who here has ever fired a gun. And not shot above the target. an expat owning a 9mm in Peru - you are either a gangster or what.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby tupacperu » Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:58 pm

Ian Hawkes wrote:Depends where one lives and how one conducts themselves. Personally I count myself lucky to have left Peru alive, but that's because I made some really stupid choices while there.

When in Trujillo my girlfriend had her handbag snatched from the entrance of the hotel (3 star one on Pizzaro - can't remember the name, but they have one in El Golf too???)
I had a couple of mobile phones nicked - but that was more my fault for being super drunk.

I found Lima pretty safe even around the palace area. The shoe shiners that hang around Larco mar can be a bit threatening if you don't give them 40 lucas for them shining your good brown shoes pink :roll:

I've heard some funky stories about bus travels as well - so I guess Yes Peru is becoming more unsafe. But if you insist on wearing your Rolex and Chipie jeans down the market you're asking for it.



Yes, Trujillo and Chiclayo has organized gangs and crime. They extort business men and taxi drives. If they do not pay they burn their homes and their moto taxis or taxis. Things up north are getting as bad as Lima.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby Xibalba » Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:58 pm

Ian Hawkes wrote:Xibalba I think he was joking, not that is it was hilarious but it was a said in joke I think. come on who here has ever fired a gun. And not shot above the target. an expat owning a 9mm in Peru - you are either a gangster or what.


Again, assuming he is from the US, then the number of gun owners is staggering. Some statistics report that as many as 40% of homes have guns in them, and of gun owners, they have as many as 4 or 5 guns in each home. It's hard to get good statistics because the issue is so political, though.

And, of course, 99.999% of those are fired at ranges or in back yards at bottles or something, not at people.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby PTTurboe » Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:28 am

I had 16 guns in my house in the USA.

If I get my CE I will definitely get a gun here. But you have to have a revolver so the 9mm will not fly.

And it is true on robbery about self defense, plus, nothing I own is worth someone's life. Just give them what they want.

But, I would use it for the house or traveling by car for defense of my loved ones.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby Remigius » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:34 am

PTTurboe wrote:But, I would use it for the house or traveling by car for defense of my loved ones.

Believe me, when a car with 5 men wearing ski masks blocks you on the highway, doing a "Dirty Harry" will most likely get all your loved ones killed. As for the house, first time you'll scare them away with your gun, next time they'll come back with bigger guns. The last thing we need here are trigger-happy gringos.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby tupacperu » Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:07 pm

The best plan of action is to dress and live modestly. I carry a debit card in soles and with about 300 soles balance, if stopped they can have the card and money (taken to ATM). Another pratice is not to allow taxis to drop you in front of your house. Get dropped off at your neighbors place or down the block. Wait til the taxi turns the corner. This does not prevent crime from happening, but it helps.

There is an article today: (spanish).

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/624176/del ... miraflores

But the gist of it is that 4 armed robbers robbed this restaurant and it took police 30 minutes to arrive. This restaurant is well known (i used to pass it everyday). The thieves, walked in while the band was playing and robbed the place (middle of miraflores). Thieves are getting more brazen each day. Security is a big issue if Peru wants to continue to attract tourist and foreign businesses.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby Remigius » Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:53 am

tupacperu wrote:But the gist of it is that 4 armed robbers robbed this restaurant and it took police 30 minutes to arrive. This restaurant is well known (i used to pass it everyday). The thieves, walked in while the band was playing and robbed the place (middle of miraflores). Thieves are getting more brazen each day. Security is a big issue if Peru wants to continue to attract tourist and foreign businesses.


Security is indeed a big issue. Unfortunately the owner wasn't quite aware of that.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby Wine Lover » Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:23 pm

^ They would have gotten away with some good loot.

I get the impression that the criminals realise that security doesnt exist and that evryone will give up their posessions without a struggle so more people are turning to crime.
My sister in law and their husband got home one sunday afternoon to their house in Chacarilla, clicked the garage door open and found people in their garage stocking up their 4wd with goods. They pointed their guns and my sister in law backed straight out and left them there to finish the job. Serenazgo came when the thieves left
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby Kelly » Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:19 pm

Wine Lover wrote:My sister in law and their husband got home one sunday afternoon to their house in Chacarilla, clicked the garage door open and found people in their garage stocking up their 4wd with goods. They pointed their guns and my sister in law backed straight out and left them there to finish the job. Serenazgo came when the thieves left


This is why I've been warned by more than one person not to have an automatic garage door.

Of course, then you've got the problem of being vulnerable in the street while you fumble with the keys opening it manually. :|
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby Remigius » Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:22 pm

Wine Lover wrote:I get the impression that the criminals realise that security doesnt exist and that evryone will give up their posessions without a struggle so more people are turning to crime.


If that were true, everybody would be shoplifting. What distinguishes a criminal from the average John Doe is the willingness to cross the line and mug people. That willingness has a cause, which is the high poverty rate in Peru and Lima. Especially residential areas that are nearly deserted at certain hours are favourite among thugs who flock from surrounding rogue/poor districts (thereby securing a quick getaway). Ironically, the victims of robberies often buy stolen stuff themselves (car parts, mobile phones, etc) and by doing that they basically create the demand in the market of which they themselves become victims of.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby tupacperu » Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:38 pm

Remigius wrote:
Wine Lover wrote:I get the impression that the criminals realise that security doesnt exist and that evryone will give up their posessions without a struggle so more people are turning to crime.


If that were true, everybody would be shoplifting. What distinguishes a criminal from the average John Doe is the willingness to cross the line and mug people. That willingness has a cause, which is the high poverty rate in Peru and Lima. Especially residential areas that are nearly deserted at certain hours are favourite among thugs who flock from surrounding rogue/poor districts (thereby securing a quick getaway). Ironically, the victims of robberies often buy stolen stuff themselves (car parts, mobile phones, etc) and by doing that they basically create the demand in the market of which they themselves become victims of.



I have always said there are more robberies and muggings in upscale neighborhoods than in other places in Lima. Criminals go to the money.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby Wine Lover » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:04 pm

Remigius wrote:
If that were true, everybody would be shoplifting. What distinguishes a criminal from the average John Doe is the willingness to cross the line and mug people. That willingness has a cause, which is the high poverty rate in Peru and Lima. Especially residential areas that are nearly deserted at certain hours are favourite among thugs who flock from surrounding rogue/poor districts (thereby securing a quick getaway). Ironically, the victims of robberies often buy stolen stuff themselves (car parts, mobile phones, etc) and by doing that they basically create the demand in the market of which they themselves become victims of.


Ever been to Metro? :-) Shoplifters city

@TupacPeru - they had an automatic garage, but they still managed to get in there.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby Remigius » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:21 pm

I'm not a specialist when it comes to automatic garage doors, but I guess if you have a device that emulates radio frequencies, that you just have to drive around and see what door reacts.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby Alpineprince » Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:14 pm

Xibalba wrote:
Alpineprince wrote:Definitely safer since I got 9mm!


I would be careful. My novia's father is a police officer and he says the laws regarding self defense are different in Peru than the US. (I am assuming you are from the US, and apologize in advance if I am wrong.)

In Peru, you can't shoot someone who is robbing you. My novia's father said you might get away with shooting someone in the leg, but if you kill the person, you are going to jail even if you were being robbed.

As I posted somewhere else, on my first day in Lima, I was inside and my novia and her father were robbed at gunpoint right outside the house, while I was watching TV inside. I felt impotent and like an idiot, but they both told me it was best. If I had been out there, I would have tried to be a hero or something, and either gotten killed or gotten someone hurt. He just handed over his money and his gun and they took off, and no one got hurt. He had the opportunity to use his weapon, and didn't.

So aim low!!

Never draw a weapon unless you intend to kill! I agree in most instances (muggings, car theft) I would gladly hand over a few hundred dollars or my keys without a second thought!
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby Wine Lover » Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:11 pm

tupacperu wrote:The best plan of action is to dress and live modestly. I carry a debit card in soles and with about 300 soles balance, if stopped they can have the card and money (taken to ATM). Another pratice is not to allow taxis to drop you in front of your house. Get dropped off at your neighbors place or down the block. Wait til the taxi turns the corner. This does not prevent crime from happening, but it helps.

There is an article today: (spanish).

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/624176/del ... miraflores

But the gist of it is that 4 armed robbers robbed this restaurant and it took police 30 minutes to arrive. This restaurant is well known (i used to pass it everyday). The thieves, walked in while the band was playing and robbed the place (middle of miraflores). Thieves are getting more brazen each day. Security is a big issue if Peru wants to continue to attract tourist and foreign businesses.



Someone told me today that it is police policy to never come during a robbery as they believe it wil cause the thieves to start shooting and potentialluy cost someone their lives.
They prefer to try and catch them on the escape.

makes sense to some degree
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby rgamarra » Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:19 am

My husband seems to think that security has improved somewhat in the district of Chorrillos. The difference? You only get mugged at night now, instead of during day AND night.

A lot of the muggings and purse snatching that I've seen (yes, I've witnessed a couple sadly) were perpetrated by teenage gang members, often referred to as pirañas, rateros or pandilleros.

The crime, however, was one reason (out of many) why I returned to the U.S. I'm glad to have my freedom of mobility back. Yet having been a victim of crime in Lima I still have the occasional anxiety attack when I'm in crowded, public places. I think it takes more of a psychological toll on us that didn't grow up in a city where petty theft (really, it's not so "petty" when it happens to you) is the norm.

And as for the victims going to the market to buy stolen goods, the reason why they go is to find and buy back what was stolen from them. This happened to my husband when a CD player was stolen from his vehicle. When he found it the vendor said, "show me the receipt and I'll sell it back to you for what I bought it for." Of course my husband didn't have the receipt and had to pay retail.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby Remigius » Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:32 am

rgamarra wrote:And as for the victims going to the market to buy stolen goods, the reason why they go is to find and buy back what was stolen from them.

That is one of the reasons for some, but definitely not the main reason. Everybody goes to La Victoria to buy cheap parts for their cars, a lot of them stolen, and they know it. Actually, your husband was lucky for not getting killed for reclaiming his property.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby Xibalba » Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:11 pm

Again, from my own experience, security and guns don't matter. The robbers in my situation had three guys - a wheelman in the car, and two guys on foot. One guy held a gun on the security guard, and the other robbed my novia and her father. Her father had a gun, and they just took that and the money. They weren't afraid of any of it.

16 guns in the house? Yikes.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby PTTurboe » Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:42 am

16 awesome guns. Just because you are afraid of guns does not mean someone who knows how to use them is wrong. I am tired of that argument. You are either uninformed or a sheeple. Sorry, but I have a natural right to self defense.

Again, there is no way I would use a gun unless I thought they were going to hurt me or someone with me. No physical items are worth anyone's life. Robber or victim.

When we travel remotely we go with 2-3 vehicles. All have a gun. These are Peruvians. They went thru the terror and they simply carry guns for safety. So, I am not some dumb gringo. My fiance's family has been here for 120 years. I kinda follow their lead.

If you don't see the value in a gun if someone is going to rape your 13 year old daughter or wife then you can deal with the karma down the road. I will deal with mine on the spot...

I guess fear runs a lot of peoples lives....
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby Remigius » Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:21 pm

I guess fear runs a lot of peoples lives


Yes, you indeed have a lot of fear running through your life.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby euroman » Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:39 pm

PTTurboe wrote:16 awesome guns. Just because you are afraid of guns does not mean someone who knows how to use them is wrong. I am tired of that argument. You are either uninformed or a sheeple. Sorry, but I have a natural right to self defense.
I guess fear runs a lot of peoples lives....


They should introduce the same law as in the UK.
Put people who posses a gun in jail for 5 years.

Owning a gun is a crime. And this should be punished severely.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby PTTurboe » Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:36 am

I fear no man.

As a matter of fact I got rid of fear a long time ago.

Owning a gun is a crime? It is a natural right.

Does it feel good being a slave? Don't you have any respect for your right as a human being for self defense and preservation?

Do you just do what you are told?

Some good little Sheeple here.

No wonder the world is run by psychopaths that prey on people.....
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby Alan » Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:03 am

Hi folks,

This has been a very interesting topic so far, but I would like to ask that we abstain from making judgmental comments about one another, as this usually derails the conversation and spoils it for the rest of us.

Thanks,
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby Remigius » Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:20 am

Alan wrote:Hi folks,

This has been a very interesting topic so far, but I would like to ask that we abstain from making judgmental comments about one another, as this usually derails the conversation and spoils it for the rest of us.


You are right, but it's a pity, because the topic of this thread and people arming themselves are very related to each other. Especially in this country people tend to take justice into their own hands, because they think the government is not doing enough. The problem is that these strong emotions often lead to innocent people getting wounded or killed by a crowd because they were thought to be criminals, and that also leads to people feeling unsafe. If I'd go through a little town or poor district with my car and somebody steps in front of it and gets hit, I'm not really sure what to do.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby PTTurboe » Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:17 pm

Agree - let's get back on track.

That worries me too - what to do in different situations!!!

How about some input on those things?

If you are robbed what it the process? I had always just thought I would empty every pocket -- give them the stuff -- then throw the cash one way and run the other? They can have everything on me!!

Is there a "robbee" etiquette?

What about a traffic accident?
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby euroman » Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:09 pm

PTTurboe wrote:I


Owning a gun is a crime? It is a natural right.


I wonder which nature you come from?

Owning a gun is the same as commiting a crime with a gun and bringing others people life in danger.
Every year many children get killed after they found and ´played´ with their parents gun.



If you are a victim of guncrime, call the police, they are trained and know how to deal with a criminal with a gun. YOU NOT. Besides, how do you know if the criminal can shoot better and quicker than you?

I would say: introduce the same law as in the UK. 5 years imprisonment for owning or attempting to buy a gun.
Last edited by euroman on Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby markr » Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:46 pm

The day that I feel so unsafe in this country that I have to arm myself with a gun, will be the day that I simply pack up and leave.
I've often wondered why a lot of people are actually here if it's such a terrible place to live.
Who in their right mind would choose to live in a place where they feel so threatened? What are they hiding from? what are they trying to achieve? Who are they tring to impress?......... And the list goes on.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby tomsax » Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:37 pm

Wine Lover wrote:Most peruvians I know believe the country is getting taken over by delinquents, what is your opinion?


Going back to the original question...

Since I first visited Peru over 20 years ago Peruvians have always told me that the country has been getting more unsafe, that crime is up, that there are more delinguents than before etc. I have never been back to the country and been told that things have ever improved. If things had really been getting worse steadily over that period then I think by now I would be shot/robbed 10 minutes after landing.

On the arms thing.. I remember going out with some Peruvians I had known for a short time when I was in Lima for the first time. We got on to the subject of crime and one of them said "but don't worry I have a gun" and pullled up his jacket to show me. I immediately started worrying, felt VERY unsafe, made my excuses and headed back to my hotel! If that means I'm afraid of guns I'm not ashamed to say it.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby americorps » Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:05 pm

Statistics show that gun owners are far more likely to have those guns used in a criminal act, accidental shooting or suicide than they are to use them for self defense. Gun owners are more likely to die by gunshot and gun owners get robbed more often than non gun owners. Countries with stricter gun control laws have much less gun related crime that those without.

That is not an emotional argument, that is just statistics.

However, as far as Peru is concerned, do i feel there is more crime than in the past, yes, do I feel Peru is growing increasingly unsafe, not really, when compared to what is going on around the world. I feel much of the increase in violent crime is from people involved in cartels or mafia and I am not all that bothered that they kill each other.

Further, I read just today that you are more likely to get murdered in Venezuela than you are in Mexico or even Iraq. Peru falls pretty low on the danger scale to me.

I do agree that it is getting worse, but I feel much of that is avoidable and little of it is violent.


More information about how dangerous VZ is.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/23/world ... .html?_r=1
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby PTTurboe » Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:09 pm

americorps wrote:Statistics show that gun owners are far more likely to have those guns used in a criminal act, accidental shooting or suicide than they are to use them for self defense. Gun owners are more likely to die by gunshot and gun owners get robbed more often than non gun owners. Countries with stricter gun control laws have much less gun related crime that those without.


That is patently false. Google John Lott. Every country in the world that outlaws guns sees an increase in violent crime. And every American state that makes firearm ownership easier sees the rates drop. Those are the statistics. Period. The UK, Oz, etc. all registered a substantial increase in violent crime. Suicide? That is not a factor. If someone wants to off themselves go for it. A human has every right to kill themselves. Gun accidents? Extremely rare. But, as with suicides, that is just Darwin at work. Gun owners get robbed more often?!?! Where did you get that one from? LMAO!!! Gun owners stop an unbelievable amount of crime. It is just not reported. No crime, get it? You cannot back up what you say...

Now back to the reality - I have not been here long enough to notice myself. Once the economy tanks - that is what I am worried about. Looking more and more like Uruguay might work if that happens.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby PTTurboe » Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:12 pm

Yeah, Euroman - go back to the UK. A nice friendly police state. A gun is a hell of a lot more safe than a car...
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby PTTurboe » Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:16 pm

I am trying to figure out how you call the police as they rape your daughter at gunpoint? Or your wife? Or slit their throats? The criminals down here let you do that? Cool...
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby mahou123 » Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:35 pm

Regarding gun ownership laws, El Paso/Juarez area is a good example. They are like one city divided by river. Strict laws in Mexico, highest murder rate in the world in Juarez, lax laws in Texas, reasonably safe town of El Paso, not much crime. I think psychologically people tend to behave better when they know that other people around are likely to carry a fireweapon. In Australia, where guns are illegal, there was a significant surge of violence in last years. People get stubbed, cut by broken glass, violently bashed in some drunken accidents in pubs, to the point that it gets dangerous to visit places where people drink alcohol late at night. I don´t think that somebody would try to attack another person with a broken beer glass somewhere in Texas: such person would understand that he is is danger of getting a bullet. So I would agree that banning the guns is a bad idea, just as a means of reducing violence, besides of restriction of basic liberty that it is.

In Peru gun laws are not strict, foreigner can get a permit. Just need some letter justifying a reason, something like stating that you carry large amounts of cash for business. Using a gun against robber is another story, this might get you in trouble, so I think overall carrying a gun in Peru is not a good idea. Maybe only if you drive or hike to remote places, but not in a city.

I read in El Comercio recently, that number of registred crimes in Peru went from 170k in 2001 to over 2 million in 2009. Right now, if a person robs somebody and gets caught on the spot by police, they hand him over to ´fiscalia´, who is asking questions, and if this person has no previous criminal record, they set him free. So it is reasonably safe to try to rob somebody, not punishable, hence the surge. But most of it are young ´choros´ trying to snatch a handbag from a woman, or grab a mobile phone or camera. Serious guys, ´marcas´, are assaulting people who deal in large amounts of cash, they work in armed gangs. They are basically after a ´big fish´, so average gringo is very unlikely to fall victim. I personally feel safe. I recently went to Guayaquil, Ecuador, and felt unsafe there, because there were no people on the streets and all businesses were closed at 8pm in some areas. In Peru, at least in big cities, there are plenty of people everywhere late at night, so it doesn´t make one feel unsafe.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby americorps » Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:46 pm

PTTurboe wrote:[

That is patently false. Google John Lott.


OK, I DID

Lott claimed to have undertaken a national survey of 2,424 respondents in 1997, the results of which were the source for claims he had made beginning in 1997.[49] However, in 2000 Lott was unable to produce the data, or any records showing that the survey had been undertaken. He said the 1997 hard drive crash that had affected several projects with co-authors had destroyed his survey data set,[50] the original tally sheets had been abandoned with other personal property in his move from Chicago to Yale, and he could not recall the names of any of the students who he said had worked on it.

Critic Ted Goertzel considered use of econometrics to establish causal relationships by Lott (and by Lott's critics Levitt, Ayres and Donohue) to be "fundamentally flawed" junk science.[54] The National Academy of Sciences panel that reported on several gun control issues in 2004 looked at Right-To-Carry laws in Chapter 6 and endorsed neither the Lott & Mustard (1997) level and trend models as definite proof nor the Ayres & Donohue (2003) hybrid model as definite refutation of Lott's thesis: the majority of panel concluded that econometrics could not decide the issue, suggesting instead alternate research, such as a survey of felons to determine if RTC changed their behavior.[55]


And my favorite

As part of the dispute surrounding the missing survey, Lott created and used "Mary Rosh" as a fake persona to defend his own works on Usenet and elsewhere. After investigative work by blogger Julian Sanchez, Lott admitted to use of the Rosh persona.[52] Sanchez also pointed out that Lott, posing as Rosh, not only praised his own academic writing, but also called himself "the best professor I ever had".[57]

Some commentators accused Lott of transgressing normal practice, noting that he praised himself while posing as one of his former students,[58][59] and that "Rosh" was used to post a favorable review of More Guns, Less Crime on Amazon.com. Lott has claimed that the "Rosh" review was written by his son and wife.[59]

"I probably shouldn't have done it—I know I shouldn't have done it—but it's hard to think of any big advantage I got except to be able to comment fictitiously," Lott told the Washington Post in 2003.[59]


Do you have anything besides junk science to prove your point?

Clearly, your hero Lott is a liar and conforms data to his opinions and does not form his opinions to the data.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby PTTurboe » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:14 am

(You know Americorp - I am not going to argue this point. I have argued this for a very long time and the statistics are there. Lott has a lot (ha) of detractors but the reason that CC is now all over the US is because of his numbers and statistics. Police are not stupid. Most police are pro-gun. They would rather have people with guns than not. And I have met you in person and I don't think we could see eye to eye on anything. You can choose your mode of self defense I will choose mine. An I have a Constitutional Right to a gun in the USA. I will side with the Founders on if having a gun is a good idea. Some people are sheeple and some are not. I had 12 ancestors fight in the Revolution. As for Peru I will get a gun when I get my CE.)
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby PTTurboe » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:16 am

mahou123 - I agree with you. Only a gun when In travel or in the home.

You need to know that if you shoot a robber and they have no gun you are committing a crime. You can only meet force with equal force here. There was a great editorial in the Commercial about this a while back.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby euroman » Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:10 pm

[
Last edited by euroman on Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby tupacperu » Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:17 pm

Yes, being vitimized is not a good feeling. It takes something out of you emotionally. I owned an internet cabina in Pueblo Libre. Someone squeezed a kid through the bathroom window and passed 10 of 20 my CPUs to adults waiting outside. this was back in 2005, took alot out of me emotionally and financially. I decided to close shop and sell at a loss. It is a difficult decision to open a store front in Peru, security is a major worry, and the security companies are just as bad as the thieves. They pass on info to get a cut of what is stolen.
I pretty much think this is the same way people get robbed leaving the bank with a lot of money, their are inside informants.

I am with you on this RGammara, I moved to Phoenix and am thinking about renting out my place as a vacation property and staying here in Phoenix. Security in Peru is a major issue .

rgamarra wrote:My husband seems to think that security has improved somewhat in the district of Chorrillos. The difference? You only get mugged at night now, instead of during day AND night.

A lot of the muggings and purse snatching that I've seen (yes, I've witnessed a couple sadly) were perpetrated by teenage gang members, often referred to as pirañas, rateros or pandilleros.

The crime, however, was one reason (out of many) why I returned to the U.S. I'm glad to have my freedom of mobility back. Yet having been a victim of crime in Lima I still have the occasional anxiety attack when I'm in crowded, public places. I think it takes more of a psychological toll on us that didn't grow up in a city where petty theft (really, it's not so "petty" when it happens to you) is the norm.

And as for the victims going to the market to buy stolen goods, the reason why they go is to find and buy back what was stolen from them. This happened to my husband when a CD player was stolen from his vehicle. When he found it the vendor said, "show me the receipt and I'll sell it back to you for what I bought it for." Of course my husband didn't have the receipt and had to pay retail.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby tupacperu » Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:26 pm

PTTurboe wrote:mahou123 - I agree with you. Only a gun when In travel or in the home.

You need to know that if you shoot a robber and they have no gun you are committing a crime. You can only meet force with equal force here. There was a great editorial in the Commercial about this a while back.


PTurboe, I am with you, each has his own style and preferences. My father totted a gun, he was old school from Florida, everyone knew there was a gun in the house and we never had any one messing with us.

I am now living in Arizona and you can see bikers with a holster and a gun, almost everyone has one ( I do not), but it makes you think twice about messing with anyone because they may be packing.

I am anti-gun (personally), but I do not criticize anyone for carrying. I myself prefer a slower method of doing damage. Give me some pepper spray and a tazer, afetr I hit them with that I then can slowly beat the stew out of em. Bullets take them out too quickly. I want to beat the life out of them slowly (heheheh)
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby PTTurboe » Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:48 pm

Yep Tupac - an armed society is a polite society. AZ is heavily armed.

I am just looking for a safe place outside of the USA right now. I do not like living in a debt and police state. The dollar is going to crash and so will society. The country is heading in the wrong direction in a big way and I am afraid it is going to get much much worse. At least you have an escape hatch down here. And while their society crashes down around them the people in the US don't seem to mind as long as they have their sports and Dancing with the Stars -- they are happy campers. As we wage war on the entire planet for corporate profits. Unreal...

Major thing is the Latin lifestyle - I love it. At least here you don't Live To Work you Work To Live. A big difference.

But, the security freaks me out. Especially when I do not speak the language very well. I am afraid they will tell me something and I will not do it then I am dead meat. It was just me it would be OK. I have traveled to many dangerous places. But, I have 2 naive teenagers and that is what freaks me out. They leave doors unlocked, etc.
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby chante » Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:40 pm

RE gun laws and murder rates
y
I'm not sure it's the ability to carry a gun (hidden or not) that affects the crime rate; if that is the case then why is the murder rate in the US higher than in Canada which has more restrictive gun laws.

United States: 0.042802 per 1,000 people or United States: 16,204 per year
Canada: 0.0149063 per 1,000 people or Canada: 523

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_m ... per-capita
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Re: Do you feel Peru is becoming more unsafe every day?

Postby tupacperu » Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:21 am

chante wrote:RE gun laws and murder rates
y
I'm not sure it's the ability to carry a gun (hidden or not) that affects the crime rate; if that is the case then why is the murder rate in the US higher than in Canada which has more restrictive gun laws.

United States: 0.042802 per 1,000 people or United States: 16,204 per year
Canada: 0.0149063 per 1,000 people or Canada: 523

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_m ... per-capita


if you would extrapolate that number into an even total, it would probably be pretty much equal.

You have to take a total count of population. The USA has a denser population than Canada.

33 Million people in Canada and 303 Million in the USA (about 10% more in the USA). You have to look at total numbers.

Restricting guns do not work. One of the cities with a high crime/murder rate is Washington DC, you are not allow to own a gun or carry one ( Gilbert Arenas - was convicted of carrying one in the locker room of the Washington Wizards). Yet with the strictest gun laws, DC was one of the most violent cities in the USA in 2005. The rate has droped in recent years. But guns are not allowed So as the cliche goes "If guns were outlawed, then only criminals would have guns" (self fulfilling prophecy in DC).

35.4 per 100,000 murder rate in 2005.
23 per 100,000 in 2009.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004902. ... z0xaucmkVC

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