So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

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So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby tomsax » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:32 pm

I thought I would react to Kelly´s suggestion of posting a thread about feminism.

I think there is a danger of any discussion on feminism getting complicated simply because feminism can take many different forms and there is so much disagreement about what it is and what it should be. Certainly there are some forms of feminism I disagree with.

Having said that I see myself as a supporter of feminism and think we need more of it in Peru. I have more respect for and enjoy the company of women who are more feminist rather than less, even if they may not see themselves or want to be thought of as feminist. I remember in the 80s most women had little idea of what feminism was, even if they were partly influenced by it. An English friend once asked a group of Peruvian women if they were feminists and they replied "no, but we are feminine"!

Sure I don´t really enjoy the company of women who hate men. But I do like women who see themselves as equal, who seem themselves as having equal rights as men, who are knowledgeable and interested in the world, who have a career, and who don´t have a traditional straightjacketed view on how both women and men should behave. I also like women who can stand up for themselves and who don't accept crap from men. There are actually lots of women like that in Peru, especially in Lima.

My only real complaint about Peruvian women is that they seem late to take on the part of the feminist deal that I hold most dear which is the willingness to carry shopping bags and to do the odd bit of DIY around the house, but that is just my little domestic issue.


Tom
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby americorps » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:19 pm

The problem will come with the mean who fear equality and will begin to say things about women as though they can only be the truth and not realize if you substitute the word gay, Peruvian, black, Jewish that they then are clearly bigoted statements.

There is actually no such thing as a national feminist agenda according to the original term, not even NOW in the US thinks that way.

Feminism is about equality, opportunity, oppression, freedom and choice. The choice part is the most important because that leaves each woman free to define it for themselves.

And quite frankly, I prefer it that way instead of some pencil sized man referring to strength in women akin to Naziism. I can not stomach that in fact.

It is not even the difference of what it will mean to an Andean woman in the mountains compared to a wealthy educated woman in Lima. It is more about that it is different from Anali at cuadra 7 of road 246 in Los Torros and Betti at Cuadra 8 or road 246 en Los Torros. It is up to them, not us to define what is feminism to them.

I think, however, that we are interchanging the term women's rights with feminism and while connected in many ways, are 2 different topics.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby tomsax » Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:58 pm

americorps wrote:
There is actually no such thing as a national feminist agenda according to the original term, not even NOW in the US thinks that way.


I´m happy if there´s no such thing as I´ve no idea what a national feminist agenda is anyway!

americorps wrote:Feminism is about equality, opportunity, oppression, freedom and choice. The choice part is the most important because that leaves each woman free to define it for themselves.

I agree with this in principal although when you get to the nitty gritty it gets more complicated and difficult to balance different aspects of freedom and choice. I doubt that many of us have a problem with women who chose to do the washing up.. but are less sure about those who choose to do all the household chores.... choose to pair up with abusive men,.... choose to wear a burka, or choose an islamic state. Are they all feminists too? All I'm saying is it´s not so simple.

americorps wrote:The choice part is the most important because that leaves each woman free to define it for themselves.


I disagree that men can´t also be engaged in the discussion of what feminism is and what it should be. Of course men´s views will always carry less weight but it is a basic fact that men and women share the planet so have to share language. No person or group has a monopoly on what language means. I know that view is not common in feminism and it is one of the aspects I´m against. We all have the right to live how we think fit and to define meaning for ourselves but the full meaning of words is always brought about though the social interaction of many people and groups. I realise we live in an unequal world and white heterosexual men like myself have tended to hold all the cards in the past, but if you say people have no right to be involved you just put barriers up to appropriate forms of engagement. I also think this when it comes to gay, black and other rights.

americorps wrote:I think, however, that we are interchanging the term women's rights with feminism and while connected in many ways, are 2 different topics.


I would say they are very very interlinked, as you have already indicated above re. the right to choose.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby americorps » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:57 pm

A couple clarifications,

I never said that men could not be a part of the discussion, only that the final determination is that of the woman for herself.

Also, when I mentioned the word choice, i was not ONLY talking about having children, but about making her own choices in general. And as far as choice, I did preface that it is all relative to each woman in her own situation.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby falconagain » Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:44 pm

Feminism has been applied in Peru. But it has misinterpreted by most Peruvian women.
While the situation before we had active Feminism was really bad for women.
The bulk of the women have used feminism as a fascist way to impose their will when
they want to achieve something. This has created a set of problems that has up to a
certain point collapsed partially the society. It appears to me that to apply ideas within
any society, its members need to be ready for them. Peru has failed many times to
apply any new ideas and most changes have disastrous results.

Nowadays in Peru, Women have used current feminist laws to behave in stupid ways
and run up huge debts within their families, at the same time threatening the husband
saying that if he does not like the situation, then they can divorce and he can continue
paying maintenance. I worked in a Peruvian collection company and of the 3 million
cases that we had within Lima. 99% were the result of the money mismanagement by
the wife. This is the reason way there is some divorces within this environment of
economic growth. Still there should be some way to naturally stop this kind of abnormal
behavior. But looks like things continue to worsen no matter what. So far feminism has
only been the equivalent of throwing more gasoline to a fire.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby rama0929 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:49 pm

americorps wrote:The problem will come with the mean who fear equality and will begin to say things about women as though they can only be the truth and not realize if you substitute the word gay, Peruvian, black, Jewish that they then are clearly bigoted statements.


I don't fear equality, I know that they'll never be equal.

That said, they can do whatever they want...
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby falconagain » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:10 pm

Equality is not the problem. The problem is that Peruvian women use their
new rights to claim superiority over the other sex. Making bad decisions.

I have dealt with american women and I will take any American feminist
over a Peruvian feminist. With the American I know what to expect. But the
Peruvian one is a timebomb.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby renodante » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:37 pm

Feminism started out about equality, and there are feminists that still hold to it.

There's another strain of feminism, which is not small by any means, wherein men are scapegoated for all the worlds ills. I don't believe there's some evil agenda to take over the world by feminists, nor am I anti feminist. I'm anti male-scapegoating.

"I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." -- Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor.

What I meant by Peruvian women not being ruined by that strain of feminism, which does indeed find it's way into academia, the media, etc, is they, for one example, appreciate chivalry, rather than being antagonistic towards it. I prefer strong, intelligent women with firm opinions. Women who walk around with a chip on their shoulder, always looking for an example of "patriarchy" is the problem.

I'm not alone in this, feminists themselves have this same conversation. There are feminists who identify themselves as "former radfems" etc.

The bulk of the women have used feminism as a fascist way to impose their will when
they want to achieve something.


It's interesting you say that. My ex girlfriend's best friend was this horrible person. One night I had people over my house when I didn't want to, but the discoteca we were supposed to go to that wednesday was shut down. i reluctantly had them over but said I had to sleep early so everyone would have to go by 1 am. The entire time (exhausted from working overtime 2 weeks straight) i served drinks to everyone, playing bartender. the friend and her boyfriend liked whiskey, i put out an ENTIRE BOTTLE of johnny walker black for them to have, she complained there was no ice. i played dj all night trying to play music everyone liked, she complained it was too low and scoffed when i talked about my neighbors. at one point when i was in the other room, she TURNED IT UP. come like 1250 am, she asked me for a different drink for her boyfriend. i told her no, i'm about to go to bed anyway and she started asking me "why not" repeatedly and called me an "egoista." enraged, i kicked everyone out of my house. my girlfriend's explanation for her behavior? "She's feminista." I replied "no, that's not a feminist, that's just a b*****"
Last edited by renodante on Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:19 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby renodante » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:51 pm

for example, in this case http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UStFJs1LVoU ,what would happen if this was a talk show of all males, and they sat around and laughed and joked about a man cutting off his wife's clitoris? Easy, they would all be fired. But here, it's HILARIOUS AND FABULOUS.

What would happen if this said "girls" instead of "boys?" Image

Peru could use the right kind of feminism, not this crap.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby americorps » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:56 am

renodante wrote:for example, in this case http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UStFJs1LVoU ,what would happen if this was a talk show of all males, and they sat around and laughed and joked about a man cutting off his wife's clitoris? Easy, they would all be fired. But here, it's HILARIOUS AND FABULOUS.

What would happen if this said "girls" instead of "boys?" Image

Peru could use the right kind of feminism, not this crap.



Your cartoon was written by a man
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby lizzym » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:12 pm

Personally, I don´t call this Peruvian phenomenon "feminism".

I hate seeing all the women in a bus stupidly wait for a man to stand up when an elderly person gets on, even if it means that person has to wait a minute or more. But a woman verbally claiming a newly-available seat in the front of the bus from all the way in the back really took the cake - like every guy standing between her and that seat was just going to watch passively as she wiggled by to take it. I think it´s ridiculous when a woman drops a pen and asks a man to pick it up for her, or asks him (in a whiny voice) to open a window for her. And guys will do it because they think it´s their obligation (though I liked the response I heard once: You have legs, open it yourself.)

I´ve seen countless guys give women the "deference" that those women assume they deserve, only to be taken for granted and often taken advantage of. And I really don´t like the snootiness that I DO see among women here (though, admittedly, only the upper-class ones.)

That being said, when my boyfriend´s mother tells him that it´s my obligation to make dinner at night after I´ve been working two jobs all day, I will happily ignore it and explain that my life choices do not have to imitate hers. I have no problem with women who want to be housewives, but if they expect me to do that plus the career I´ve chosen, they´re quite mistaken. I´ll sooner take the money that I´ve earned and buy some appliances that the bf and I can both use to get chores done.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby goingnowherefast » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:14 pm

Caucasians in the US and Europe have some of the lowest birth rates and highest divorce rates in the world. I wonder why... it's estimated that by the next generation USA will be predominately Latino and West Europe will be predominately Muslim because Caucasians aren't having children anymore... once again... I wonder why...
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby tomsax » Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:17 pm

goingnowherefast wrote:Caucasians in the US and Europe have some of the lowest birth rates and highest divorce rates in the world. I wonder why... it's estimated that by the next generation USA will be predominately Latino and West Europe will be predominately Muslim because Caucasians aren't having children anymore... once again... I wonder why...


Your right, I will now do my bit as a non-muslim caucasian by cheating on my wife and fathering a batch of children to up my brethren's population count. I'm in no danger of my wife wanting a divorce as she's Peruvian. That's why I married her, none of this feminist nonsense.

lizzym wrote:I hate seeing all the women in a bus stupidly wait for a man to stand up when an elderly person gets on, even if it means that person has to wait a minute or more. But a woman verbally claiming a newly-available seat in the front of the bus from all the way in the back really took the cake - like every guy standing between her and that seat was just going to watch passively as she wiggled by to take it. I think it´s ridiculous when a woman drops a pen and asks a man to pick it up for her, or asks him (in a whiny voice) to open a window for her.


I couldn't agree more. This is not feminism but just women trying to salvage a few meager benefits of living in a macho society. Younger women tend to get a lot more of these minor benefits which then diminish with age.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby renodante » Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:04 am

Your cartoon was written by a man


I'm aware of that.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby captsirl » Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:34 am

goingnowherefast wrote:Caucasians in the US and Europe have some of the lowest birth rates and highest divorce rates in the world. I wonder why... it's estimated that by the next generation USA will be predominately Latino and West Europe will be predominately Muslim because Caucasians aren't having children anymore... once again... I wonder why...

Caucasians plan for the future, having children you cant afford to feed does not make sense. You will find this to be true in most advanced cultures. It's just not politically correct to teach to the general public. But look at the birth rate in Japan Germany and other countries with a high level of education.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby windsportinperu » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:42 pm

Good topic, I think there is so much to talk about feminism... but I want to be specific and short:

Feminism is a right for women, not a fight against men.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby windsportinperu » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:58 pm

goingnowherefast wrote:Caucasians in the US and Europe have some of the lowest birth rates and highest divorce rates in the world. I wonder why... it's estimated that by the next generation USA will be predominately Latino and West Europe will be predominately Muslim because Caucasians aren't having children anymore... once again... I wonder why...


Believe it or not, I think this planet Earth is overpopulated right now.. and not having babies for at least 2 generations should be a trendy not only in US and Europe also all over the world..

Why caucasian women don't want children ?. I think they want to have children, but life as it is planned in our actual world is consider to be "so short". "la vida es tan corta" Actualy women from western civilization has so much opportunities to live a life (career, traveling, parties, studies, etc) and having a baby is not into their priorities.....
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby renodante » Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:33 pm

windsportinperu wrote:Good topic, I think there is so much to talk about feminism... but I want to be specific and short:

Feminism is a right for women, not a fight against men.


that's what it's supposed to be and should be. not always how it pans out.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby falconagain » Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:01 pm

Feminism is useful as long as it provides the required freedom to women in order to avoid
the abuse of men.

Some of the positive changes that you can see thanks to feminism in Peru are:

- less spousal abuse. Up to the late 90s a man could pretty much kick a woman without much
legal consequences.

- less discrimination due to divorce. Single Mothers were not allowed to work in certain places,
banned from churches, and if you were a single mother your children were also rejected from
many schools.

- more women driving on the streets. Before Peru looked like a big muslim country, when you
looked at the car drivers (99% of them were men), you can still see this in some old families.
Father and Male children got their driver licenses and cars first. The Mother does not drive,
and the daughter had to fight a lot to be allowed to drive.

Now we just need to diminish the amount of crimes due to break ups between married and non
married people, but still things are better than before at least for the women.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby VicManu » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:52 am

It's funny maybe we were living in a different country Falconagain. I'm 52 years old and what I remember my mother drove since the 60's, also my sisters had their cars in the 70's when they were almost teenagers. The transportation to the schools was made mostly by women. I started the university 1977 and approx. 40 % of the students were women. And most of them had their own ride, sometimes my friends ( girls )used to invite me to the cinema and they drove.

I'm watching Unesco data and they indicate during the 80's, 70 % of women worked in Peru.
But there were a lot of unequalities in 1985, 17% of women were iliterate and 5 % of men were iliterate.
Salaries paid to women were 70 % of the salary of men .
We still have a lot to improve and you're right violence against women has to decrease via education.
But women in Peru are doing way better than decades ago. Lots of them are head of small enterprises, during the 80's and 90's poor immigrants settled on the streets of Lima as street vendors and most of them were women and now a lot of women who has a profession are head of Big companies. My wife had executive responsabilities since she was 24 and She;s in her 40's.

Maybe our grand parents were too conservative to let their wives work. But what I remember during the 60's in Lima and most of the coastal cities the fashion of the bikinis and miniskirts were adopted.
I don't Know were you lived but this country wasn't like a muslim country.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby renodante » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:55 am

the acceptability of cat-calling/outright yelling filthy things to women on the street takes me aback each time to this day.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby windsportinperu » Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:25 pm

renodante wrote:the acceptability of cat-calling/outright yelling filthy things to women on the street takes me aback each time to this day.


That is a good point Renodante, if I were a woman, I would felt angry everytime a man yells me stupid and inadecuate "piropos" on the street. Fortunately this bad habit is decreasing in our society...
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby renodante » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:24 pm

windsportinperu wrote:
renodante wrote:the acceptability of cat-calling/outright yelling filthy things to women on the street takes me aback each time to this day.


That is a good point Renodante, if I were a woman, I would felt angry everytime a man yells me stupid and inadecuate "piropos" on the street. Fortunately this bad habit is decreasing in our society...


In the states it happens, but has mostly died out. When I was a little kid in the 70's it was a little more common, but it hardly ever happens now.

Beyond the sexist part, I've never understood it. It's like announcing in public "HEY, I'M A COMPLETE LOSER WHO HAS NO IDEA HOW TO INTERACT WITH WOMEN!"

I think in the entire human history of cat calling, maybe 1 incidence of it TOTAL ever led to the guy being with the target of his dumb yelling. And I'm probably being generous.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby jude » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:39 pm

renodante wrote:In the states it happens, but has mostly died out. When I was a little kid in the 70's it was a little more common, but it hardly ever happens now.


Hahahahaha Surely you jest. I wasn't even born in the 70s but damn sure am regularly cat called in the states. It's nothing like the same level as in Peru, maybe a couple of times a week rather multiple times a day.

renodante wrote:Beyond the sexist part, I've never understood it. It's like announcing in public "HEY, I'M A COMPLETE LOSER WHO HAS NO IDEA HOW TO INTERACT WITH WOMEN!"

I think in the entire human history of cat calling, maybe 1 incidence of it TOTAL ever led to the guy being with the target of his dumb yelling. And I'm probably being generous.


This part I agree with. Some men are just clueless freaks.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby falconagain » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:42 pm

According to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Peru

"Women in Peru receive less pay than men, have fewer employment and political opportunities, and are at times abused without repercussion. Contraceptive availability is not enough for the demand, and over a third of pregnancies end in abortion. Maternal death rates are also some of the highest in South America.
The Peruvian Government has begun efforts to combat the high maternal mortality rate and lack of female political representation, as well as violence against women. However, the efforts have not yet borne fruit."

What is describe in the above paragraph could be also applied to certain Muslim countries as the restrictions
are similar, this article describes the current situation within Peru. This means obviously that in the past
the women had even less rights and treated even worse.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby renodante » Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:53 pm

Hahahahaha Surely you jest. I wasn't even born in the 70s but damn sure am regularly cat called in the states. It's nothing like the same level as in Peru, maybe a couple of times a week rather multiple times a day.


really? i guess it depends on the area. i'm from new york but lived in florida for a long time, maybe it was a southern hospitality thing. but in all the years i was there i don't think i ever witnessed it, aside from drunken frat boys on a saturday night. but yeah, i'm sure it goes down, just here i hear it every single day at least twice without exception.

and it goes way beyond whistling, it's yelling out things i can't even allude to on this board...loudly too.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby jude » Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:08 pm

renodante wrote:really? i guess it depends on the area. i'm from new york but lived in florida for a long time, maybe it was a southern hospitality thing. but in all the years i was there i don't think i ever witnessed it, aside from drunken frat boys on a saturday night. but yeah, i'm sure it goes down, just here i hear it every single day at least twice without exception.

and it goes way beyond whistling, it's yelling out things i can't even allude to on this board...loudly too.


Can't comment on the south, but definitely happens in California and the north east.

And yes, I know it goes well beyond whistling. It was kind of a sad day when my Spanish got good enough to really understand some of the gross things that were being said at me.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby jude » Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:12 pm

falconagain wrote:According to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Peru

"Women in Peru receive less pay than men, have fewer employment and political opportunities, and are at times abused without repercussion. Contraceptive availability is not enough for the demand, and over a third of pregnancies end in abortion. Maternal death rates are also some of the highest in South America.
The Peruvian Government has begun efforts to combat the high maternal mortality rate and lack of female political representation, as well as violence against women. However, the efforts have not yet borne fruit."


I find it really hard to believe that a third of pregnancies end in abortion. Abortion is illegal here! Obviously some illegal abortions take place, just as they do everywhere else it's outlawed, but I can't believe that there's such a high rate.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby VicManu » Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:55 pm

jude wrote:
falconagain wrote:According to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Peru

"Women in Peru receive less pay than men, have fewer employment and political opportunities, and are at times abused without repercussion. Contraceptive availability is not enough for the demand, and over a third of pregnancies end in abortion. Maternal death rates are also some of the highest in South America.
The Peruvian Government has begun efforts to combat the high maternal mortality rate and lack of female political representation, as well as violence against women. However, the efforts have not yet borne fruit."


I find it really hard to believe that a third of pregnancies end in abortion. Abortion is illegal here! Obviously some illegal abortions take place, just as they do everywhere else it's outlawed, but I can't believe that there's such a high rate.


It´s false information like lot of the information He use.
there is not official data about abortions, but medical studies made by Peruvians and US researchers found that approx. 11.8 % of the pregnancies ends in abortions. And most of then are spontaneous abortions and a high percentage are clandestine provoked abortions.
He said that in the 90´s few women drove cars it looked that husbanmen didn´t allow the women to drive like in the muslims countries I proved it was false so He wrote another false information.
If you use your common sense You´ll see why Peru have higher rates of fertility than Argentina for example.
If 30 % of pregnancies end in abortions we´ll have one of the lower rates of the world.

Muslim countries restrict contraception and condoms for religious reasons. Peru doesn´t do it. It happens because our politicians didn´t care about the poor pople. It´s classism and racism sometimes. And cultural misunderstanding. Women of remeotes villages of the highlands and of the rainforest, have different way to give birth and they felt bad treated by nurses and doctors. So they keep giving birth in unhealthy conditions
But a lot is improving lately the government need to extend the new methods to the remote villages and to improve sexual education in the slums and rural areas. And legalize abortion.
I don´t live in denial. Peru has a lot to improve a lot to do to reduce poverty,but I´ll give you trustworthy sources against your false information.
http://www.offnews.info/downloads/FocalPeruBirthEN.pdf
http://econpapers.repec.org/paper/paiwpaper/11-01.htm
http://www.iadb.org/idbamerica/index.cfm?thisid=2461
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby renodante » Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:59 pm

And yes, I know it goes well beyond whistling. It was kind of a sad day when my Spanish got good enough to really understand some of the gross things that were being said at me.


a female friend from here said if you confront them and call them on it when they do it, they usually cower like little boys and slink away. they're not used to it.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby falconagain » Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:01 pm

Actually it is pretty common, many men do not want to use a condom and force
the woman to have sex this way. A book was published about it. There is some
information here http://susanavillaran.blogspot.com/2008 ... no-en.html
in Spanish. According to the estimate of the researcher there is 376,000 induced abortions per year.
It is obvious that many of these abortions are made under extremely unsafe conditions and that
many women die as a consequence of the procedure.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby windsportinperu » Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:08 pm

renodante wrote: I think in the entire human history of cat calling, maybe 1 incidence of it TOTAL ever led to the guy being with the target of his dumb yelling. And I'm probably being generous.


I think the effectiveness is 0% , but in the few cases where the guy thought it was effective, it was really because the guy had a lot of money and made cat-calling from a convertible car as a mercerdes benz or a porsche..
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby falconagain » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:13 pm

The United Nations formed the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women
at the beginning of the 1980s. Peru makes a report of their progress and setback in the discrimination
of women every few years. There is also a list of the influence and political actions made by this convention
in every report.

The majority of United Nations reports (1994 to now) can be found at:
http://www.un.org/womenwatch/daw/cedaw/sessions.htm

There is also reports from other countries that have similar problems as Peru, for example the
muslim countries. While the reports are not flattering they are supported by the Peruvian Government.

Actually it is recommended for any expat woman or man to read the last three reports as they
provide a detailed framework of the new rights that are given to women within the current
administration.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby VicManu » Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:59 am

Yesterday a peruvian girl who was pregnant died after she fell of the third floor of a building in San Isidro.
Her fiance and english man and she were having a fight and it looks like this english guy hit her with a hammer before she fell. When the cops arrived the fiance was beside the body and He was drunk.

Three weeks after I arrived ( october 2011 ) to Lima, I witnessed a fight between a tall guy and a short lady, The fight happened in Pueblo Libre close to Bolivar and Brasil avenues. I approached to help her because He was pushing her back and when I was close to them a policeman approached to them and stopped the fight. Both were speaking in english and didn't understand so much what the policeman was asking to them.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby windsportinperu » Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:49 pm

I have always believe in this

-> A woman is more important in the life of a man, than a man in the life of a woman..
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby chi chi » Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:04 pm

falconagain wrote:According to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Peru

"Women in Peru receive less pay than men.


In most European countries, women also get paid less than men.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby windsportinperu » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:20 am

goingnowherefast wrote: I'm a big believer in love and that a good woman is all a man needs and this will eventually lead to the happiness of both parties, and they can have children, and those children can do it all over again. It's what humans do. This is like the polar opposite of mainstream American belief


Good words of Wisdom
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby Kelly » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:46 am

Nothing warms my heart like reading misogynistic views on feminism.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby chi chi » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:55 am

goingnowherefast wrote:Caucasians in the US and Europe have some of the lowest birth rates and highest divorce rates in the world. I wonder why... it's estimated that by the next generation USA will be predominately Latino and West Europe will be predominately Muslim because Caucasians aren't having children anymore... once again... I wonder why...


The reason why Muslims, Latinos and Asians have more children is because they need children. When they are too old to work, or get sick their children will support them. In Europe and the US, they have wellfare and pensions. In their homecountries, they don´t. If you have no children, there will be no one to look after you when you are old or sick.

If you have only 1 or 2 children, then the financial burden will be higher for them. Especially because prices are going up all the time. So, the more children you have, the less you will be a financial burden for them.

I think Europeans and Americans will regret it in the near future that they don´t have many children because pensions are getting lower all the time and it won´t be too long before there will be no more money for pensions. (For example in Belgium, 30% of pensioners live in poverty)
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby windsportinperu » Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:37 pm

chi chi wrote: The reason why Muslims, Latinos and Asians have more children is because they need children.


I can't talk for muslims and asians, but latinos have children because they love them, not because the need them. I have never seen in Peru that peruvians want to have more children (than they actually have) just because they need them

chi chi wrote: If you have no children, there will be no one to look after you when you are old or sick.


You are partially right, Chichi -- this is an old way of thinking - still survive in some rural areas in Peru and in some old-style families
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby tomsax » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:34 pm

goingnowherefast wrote:I was watching one of those love movies yesterday in the theater, don't know the name in English but in Spanish "Amor por Siempre" and it depicted what is unfortunately the typical American woman in her late 20's/early 30's. Her life is usually devoted to work, she has no children, she's single and alone, and generally miserable but pretends to be happy. For a woman to be attached to a man is generally viewed as a weakness. I just don't understand why someone would WANT to be like that. We have a word for women like this in English... it's a synonym for female dog...



So the women is a "*****" because she is devoted to work, has no children,is single and alone and sad but for some reason pretends to be happ?. She's not unfortunate, or sadly mistaken, or has just taken the wrong choices in life to be truely content, she is also evil and malicious, or is ***** a word you use for a women you don't agree with? And you have such strong feelings about someone who doesn´t actually exist (ie movies are not reality). I don´t think the words "old fashioned" quite cover it.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby MarcoPE » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:40 pm

goingnowherefast wrote:yesterday in the theater, don't know the name in English but in Spanish "Amor por Siempre" and it depicted what is unfortunately the typical American woman in her late 20's/early 30's. Her life is usually devoted to work, she has no children, she's single and alone, and generally miserable but pretends to be happy. For a woman to be attached to a man is generally viewed as a weakness. I just don't understand why someone would WANT to be like that. We have a word for women like this in English... it's a synonym for female dog...

I'm a big believer in love and that a good woman is all a man needs and this will eventually lead to the happiness of both parties, and they can have children, and those children can do it all over again. It's what humans do. This is like the polar opposite of mainstream American belief. Oh well, whatever, that's why God created Peruanas!


AND, we have a name for this type of thinking in English also....MALE CHAUVINIST PIG! and by the way...your way of thinking is disgusting....

There are so many couples that live by your rules that cannot take adequate care of their 5, 6, or 7 children....and that is ok by you?
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby windsportinperu » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:17 pm

goingnowherefast wrote: We have a word for women like this in English... it's a synonym for female dog...


Going.... women who read this before deserve an apology
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby falconagain » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:03 am

tomsax wrote:
goingnowherefast wrote:I was watching one of those love movies yesterday in the theater, don't know the name in English but in Spanish "Amor por Siempre" and it depicted what is unfortunately the typical American woman in her late 20's/early 30's. Her life is usually devoted to work, she has no children, she's single and alone, and generally miserable but pretends to be happy. For a woman to be attached to a man is generally viewed as a weakness. I just don't understand why someone would WANT to be like that. We have a word for women like this in English... it's a synonym for female dog...



So the women is a "*****" because she is devoted to work, has no children,is single and alone and sad but for some reason pretends to be happ?. She's not unfortunate, or sadly mistaken, or has just taken the wrong choices in life to be truely content, she is also evil and malicious, or is ***** a word you use for a women you don't agree with? And you have such strong feelings about someone who doesn´t actually exist (ie movies are not reality). I don´t think the words "old fashioned" quite cover it.




I do not know what word are you referring to, but still I have met several women that fit the description
that you provide. It is obvious that they are defined in different ways by different people. One time I
heard their families define one of this women as a loser. Still in that family everybody was married
except her. When my mother met that woman she defined her as too smart to be taken advantage
of. So I think it is very easy to define people, but still something must be broken within modern
society as thinks do not ever go smoothly for either side male or female.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby windsportinperu » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:06 am

falconagain wrote: I do not know what word are you referring to


I didn't realize what the word was refering to, as well, but after the reaction of a couple of user here, I read it again an found it offensive.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby chi chi » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:26 pm

falconagain wrote:- more women driving on the streets. Before Peru looked like a big muslim country, when you
looked at the car drivers (99% of them were men)


Muslim woman don´t live that bad as some people think.
There are of course some people who live 100% according to some rules but they are generally rules made up by some groups and those rules are not laid out by Islam.
Also the restrictions in some countries have has nothing to do with Islam but just by the government. There´s nowhere written in the Koran than woman are not allowed to drive a car or have to wear a burka.

There are also many Peruvians that start converting to Islam and remarkably a lot of woman. In Magdalena Del Mar, there´s the big Muslim cultural centre and I noticed a lot of Muslim woman. I see often groups of Muslim woman eating in restaurants.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby Alan » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:06 pm

Sorry folks. I was asleep at the switch. The post has been deleted. Opinions are fine on this board, but insulting language is not welcome.
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby rama0929 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:35 pm

falconagain wrote:Actually it is pretty common, many men do not want to use a condom and force
the woman to have sex this way.


Rape?

The woman calls the shots, unless he wants to make it with Hangelina Jolie...
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby rama0929 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:37 pm

windsportinperu wrote:I have always believe in this

-> A woman is more important in the life of a man, than a man in the life of a woman..


As a fan of beer and sammiches, I agree :wink:

:mrgreen:
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Re: So what ABOUT feminism in Peru!

Postby rama0929 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:42 pm

tomsax wrote:
goingnowherefast wrote:I was watching one of those love movies yesterday in the theater, don't know the name in English but in Spanish "Amor por Siempre" and it depicted what is unfortunately the typical American woman in her late 20's/early 30's. Her life is usually devoted to work, she has no children, she's single and alone, and generally miserable but pretends to be happy. For a woman to be attached to a man is generally viewed as a weakness. I just don't understand why someone would WANT to be like that. We have a word for women like this in English... it's a synonym for female dog...



So the women is a "*****" because she is devoted to work, has no children,is single and alone and sad but for some reason pretends to be happ?. She's not unfortunate, or sadly mistaken, or has just taken the wrong choices in life to be truely content, she is also evil and malicious, or is ***** a word you use for a women you don't agree with? And you have such strong feelings about someone who doesn´t actually exist (ie movies are not reality). I don´t think the words "old fashioned" quite cover it.


It's not a word that I'd use for women I disagree with, it's a word I'd use for women that are, just like I'd use a--h--e (and a slew of other words) for guys...

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