Riot deaths in Peru

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Alan
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Riot deaths in Peru

Postby Alan » Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:33 pm

Peru picked up some not-so-friendly attention from ABC News this week.

I know demonstrators here can be pretty violent (read how they fired fireworks at the police) but responding with live rounds instead of rubber bullets seems like an exaggeration. After all, nothing polarizes a conflict like violence, and particularly so when people get killed.

Peru's Anti-Riot Tactics Unmatched in Lethality


Sixteen-year-old Cesar Medina was returning home from an Internet cafe, his mother says, and got caught up in a crowd of demonstrators when police and soldiers opened fire. A bullet tore into his head, killing him instantly.

The youth was among five civilians killed in this month's outbreak of violence over Peru's biggest mining project, and while authorities have not said who fired the deadly shots, local journalists say it was security forces.


http://abcnews.go.com/International/wir ... y-16777555


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Re: Riot deaths in Peru

Postby chi chi » Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:53 pm

Still a little compared what's going on in Syria. I hope the violence stops their soon but I think it's a little to late.
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Re: Riot deaths in Peru

Postby JoshuS » Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:15 pm

There's a huge difference. In Peru, citizens are being repressed (and killed in some cases) for standing up to the plundering and pillage of the corporations trying to destroy their communities and environment.

In Syria, on the other hand, we have a government fighting for survival, against the proxy imperialist war of attrition by the western coalition, led by the US. US/NATO/ Britain and allies through their proxies Israel, Turkey, Jordan, Iraq , Qatar and Saudi Arabia are financing, arming and supporting (from the outset) their "rebels" (mercenaries, armed gangs, death squads, building bombings) inside Syria, committing crimes against innocent civilian people (crimes against humanity) to blame Assad's government in order to justify a "R2P" (right to protect) and a "humanitarian" intervention. To be clear, this is not a revolution of the people, it's a proxy imperialist war against a sovereign nation. They're using all tools at their disposal, such as psychological warfare (propaganda), media coverage blaming Assad and his government at every turn for the bloodshed caused by the US in the first place. Even using the UN (Kofi Anan is a stooge) to "diplomatically" intervene favorably for the US coalition. The only way to stop the bloodshed in Syria is to stop financing and arming those US sponsored gangs (Salafists, Al Qaeda et al), but they won't, because it's part of a bigger geopolitical strategy aimed at Iran, China and Russia. That's why China and Russia, based on the Libya experience (a US successful imperialist aggression) are blocking every effort Washington is doing to topple Assad. The road to Iran is through Damascus.
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Re: Riot deaths in Peru

Postby chi chi » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:12 pm

JoshuS wrote:There's a huge difference. In Peru, citizens are being repressed (and killed in some cases) for standing up to the plundering and pillage of the corporations trying to destroy their communities and environment.

In Syria, on the other hand, we have a government fighting for survival, against the proxy imperialist war of attrition by the western coalition, led by the US. US/NATO/ Britain and allies through their proxies Israel, Turkey, Jordan, Iraq , Qatar and Saudi Arabia are financing, arming and supporting (from the outset) their "rebels" (mercenaries, armed gangs, death squads, building bombings) inside Syria, committing crimes against innocent civilian people (crimes against humanity) to blame Assad's government in order to justify a "R2P" (right to protect) and a "humanitarian" intervention. To be clear, this is not a revolution of the people, it's a proxy imperialist war against a sovereign nation. They're using all tools at their disposal, such as psychological warfare (propaganda), media coverage blaming Assad and his government at every turn for the bloodshed caused by the US in the first place. Even using the UN (Kofi Anan is a stooge) to "diplomatically" intervene favorably for the US coalition. The only way to stop the bloodshed in Syria is to stop financing and arming those US sponsored gangs (Salafists, Al Qaeda et al), but they won't, because it's part of a bigger geopolitical strategy aimed at Iran, China and Russia. That's why China and Russia, based on the Libya experience (a US successful imperialist aggression) are blocking every effort Washington is doing to topple Assad. The road to Iran is through Damascus.


In a war, there are no winners. Everybody loses.
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Re: Riot deaths in Peru

Postby SilverbackPeru » Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:54 pm

JoshuS wrote:There's a huge difference. In Peru, citizens are being repressed (and killed in some cases) for standing up to the plundering and pillage of the corporations trying to destroy their communities and environment.

In Syria, on the other hand, we have a government fighting for survival, against the proxy imperialist war of attrition by the western coalition, led by the US. US/NATO/ Britain and allies through their proxies Israel, Turkey, Jordan, Iraq , Qatar and Saudi Arabia are financing, arming and supporting (from the outset) their "rebels" (mercenaries, armed gangs, death squads, building bombings) inside Syria, committing crimes against innocent civilian people (crimes against humanity) to blame Assad's government in order to justify a "R2P" (right to protect) and a "humanitarian" intervention. To be clear, this is not a revolution of the people, it's a proxy imperialist war against a sovereign nation. They're using all tools at their disposal, such as psychological warfare (propaganda), media coverage blaming Assad and his government at every turn for the bloodshed caused by the US in the first place. Even using the UN (Kofi Anan is a stooge) to "diplomatically" intervene favorably for the US coalition. The only way to stop the bloodshed in Syria is to stop financing and arming those US sponsored gangs (Salafists, Al Qaeda et al), but they won't, because it's part of a bigger geopolitical strategy aimed at Iran, China and Russia. That's why China and Russia, based on the Libya experience (a US successful imperialist aggression) are blocking every effort Washington is doing to topple Assad. The road to Iran is through Damascus.


Well you have to admit that Assad is definatly no angel and he does need to face some sort of justice for how hes been treating his people after the uprisings. Under no circumstances should a leader be able to kill members of a civilian population. But i do think its nothing to do with western countries and should be sorted out by syrians only. lets face it if Assad is toppled then it makes you think who will get into power next as there will be a democratic election and that hasn´t gone exactly to how the west would want it, just look at Eygpt, they´ve just voted in a more extreme islamist government who definatly won´t be pro western. As i said before I´m genereally to the thought of we should just keep out of other peoples business but the thought of Iran with nuclear weapons is a pretty scary thought!
Their one aim is to wipe Isreal off the face of the earth at what ever cost and altho if Isreal were to no longer exist it would sort out a lot of problems in the middle east you have to start to think how big a war that would be if Iran were to go to war with Isreal, especially if when both sides have nuclear weapons.

As for the protests in Peru i wish them all the best of luck as i can see them just getting screwed over by some big corporation that probably doesn´t give a crap about the area or the community or even the environment! Hopefully someone will come which benifits the community.
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Re: Riot deaths in Peru

Postby tomsax » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:29 am

JoshuS wrote:There's a huge difference. In Peru, citizens are being repressed (and killed in some cases) for standing up to the plundering and pillage of the corporations trying to destroy their communities and environment.

In Syria, on the other hand, we have a government fighting for survival, against the proxy imperialist war of attrition by the western coalition, led by the US. US/NATO/ Britain and allies through their proxies Israel, Turkey, Jordan, Iraq , Qatar and Saudi Arabia are financing, arming and supporting (from the outset) their "rebels" (mercenaries, armed gangs, death squads, building bombings) inside Syria, committing crimes against innocent civilian people (crimes against humanity) to blame Assad's government in order to justify a "R2P" (right to protect) and a "humanitarian" intervention. To be clear, this is not a revolution of the people, it's a proxy imperialist war against a sovereign nation. They're using all tools at their disposal, such as psychological warfare (propaganda), media coverage blaming Assad and his government at every turn for the bloodshed caused by the US in the first place. Even using the UN (Kofi Anan is a stooge) to "diplomatically" intervene favorably for the US coalition. The only way to stop the bloodshed in Syria is to stop financing and arming those US sponsored gangs (Salafists, Al Qaeda et al), but they won't, because it's part of a bigger geopolitical strategy aimed at Iran, China and Russia. That's why China and Russia, based on the Libya experience (a US successful imperialist aggression) are blocking every effort Washington is doing to topple Assad. The road to Iran is through Damascus.


Joshus, you are clinging to what I suppose is a comforting delusion of US and western dominance everywhere in the world, including places like Syria. That all its enemies are blameless victims who must be defended. That all violence must somehow come from them and would stop without them. The world is moving on leaving you behind.
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Re: Riot deaths in Peru

Postby JoshuS » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:31 pm

SilverBackPeru wrote: Well you have to admit that Assad is definatly no angel and he does need to face some sort of justice for how hes been treating his people after the uprisings. Under no circumstances should a leader be able to kill members of a civilian population.


Like I said above: "To be clear, this is not a revolution of the people, it's a proxy imperialist war against a sovereign nation." It's the imperialist Western alliance which has been doing the killings, massacres, etc, via their terrorists , in order to blame Assad for it and justify a military aggression alla Lybia. Again, Assad's government is fighting for survival, using his own forces to clamp down on those US sponsored terrorists, sadly in doing so, innocent civilians also get caught in the crossfire, it's a desperate and dirty situation. The majority of the Syrian people are with Assad, and repudiate the violence perpetrated by these sponsored armed mercenaries. These terrorists are even threatening the population to join them or else be killed. It's a blatant aggression against Syria, a sovereign nation and in many ways, a war has already started. The rebels are the foot soldiers of the NATO military alliance. They are being armed explicitly under the instructions of the United States and its allies, something Hillary no longer denies. NATO Special Forces particularly from Britain, France and Qatar are also on the ground training the "rebels". They are sending weapons to the rebels and when the French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius invokes the article seventh of the United Nations concerning an arms embargo, he should understand that all those violating the article seven are precisely the members of the United Nations Security Council namely the United States, Britain and France. Also, this is a violation of international law.

SilverBackPeru wrote: But i do think its nothing to do with western countries and should be sorted out by syrians only.


Exactly. The Syrian government has the right to stand firm in relation to the attacks on its sovereignty. It is not the United States and its allies’ absolutely no right to pass any judgment on the internal structure and the politics of a sovereign country. That is for the people of Syria to decide, and they are with their leader Assad. Everything else is propaganda and misinformation campaign carried out by Western control media.

SilverBackPeru wrote: lets face it if Assad is toppled then it makes you think who will get into power next as there will be a democratic election and that hasn´t gone exactly to how the west would want it, just look at Eygpt, they´ve just voted in a more extreme islamist government who definatly won´t be pro western. As i said before I´m genereally to the thought of we should just keep out of other peoples business but the thought of Iran with nuclear weapons is a pretty scary thought!


What the US/NATO/Britain and allies are doing is a violation of international law, but they're pissing on it. Egypt is still controlled by the US, welcome to the new puppet, same like the old puppet. The Brotherhood, Egypt's military, and the US, which had been closely involved in these events made sure of that. Hillary in been in close contact with the junta during the elections, saying she's pushing for a completion of post-revolution change and economic restoration. Certainly not for the 90 million Egyptians. What a joke.

SilverBackPeru wrote: Their one aim is to wipe Isreal off the face of the earth at what ever cost and altho if Isreal were to no longer exist it would sort out a lot of problems in the middle east you have to start to think how big a war that would be if Iran were to go to war with Isreal, especially if when both sides have nuclear weapons.

Iran has never attacked any country in over 100 years, they were instead attacked by Iraq under Sadam, on US orders. That Iran wants to wipe off Israel off the map is just Zionist/US propaganda, to rein in a country which won't toe Washington's line. The real clear and present danger is Israel, armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons, fully backed and unquestioned by the Western powers, even the UN, because Israel is their watch dog in the Middle east.

SilverBackPeru wrote: As for the protests in Peru i wish them all the best of luck as i can see them just getting screwed over by some big corporation that probably doesn´t give a crap about the area or the community or even the environment! Hopefully someone will come which benifits the community.


Hopefully.
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Re: Riot deaths in Peru

Postby renodante » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:34 pm

The real clear and present danger is Israel


You say this while displaying solidarity with Assad, Mubarak and Khadaffi. Well, at least you're on the side of the good guys, anything but the Zionist Imperialist Illuminati West I suppose.

Right, Israel is the problem, an open society where over a million arabs live as full citizens, serving positions on the Knesset, in the court system all the way up to Supreme Court justices, in the IDF all the way to rank of general, in the police, in the school system all the way up to university professors. Where one can be openly atheist and say so, in print, on T.V, in public without fear of reprisal. Where women have equal rights as men, where homosexuals can be "out" in the open, where one can practice whatever religion one wants. In the countries surrounding it ummmm not so much. But that's the side you're going with? Good luck with all that.
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Re: Riot deaths in Peru

Postby JoshuS » Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:09 pm

Redodante wrote: You say this while displaying solidarity with Assad, Mubarak and Khadaffi. Well, at least you're on the side of the good guys, anything but the Zionist Imperialist Illuminati West I suppose.


The majority of the Syrian people support Assad, corroborated not only by independent media, but even by a Syrian friend who lives in NYC. Should the imperialist US led aggression against Syria be successful, we will be looking at another failed state, like they did with Lybia, all for the sake of its oil and resources, among other geopolitical interests in the North African region. Mubarak was a US stooge, who had to go, no loss for the imperialists after replacing him with another stooge.

Redodante wrote: Right, Israel is the problem, an open society where over a million arabs live as full citizens, serving positions on the Knesset, in the court system all the way up to Supreme Court justices, in the IDF all the way to rank of general, in the police, in the school system all the way up to university professors. Where one can be openly atheist and say so, in print, on T.V, in public without fear of reprisal. Where women have equal rights as men, where homosexuals can be "out" in the open, where one can practice whatever religion one wants. In the countries surrounding it ummmm not so much. But that's the side you're going with? Good luck with all that.


What you wrote above is the Zionist propaganda version of US/Britain/Israel. A more accurately description of Israel would be, a terrorist, apartheid state which usurped Arab lands (Palestine) with the help of Britain, the Rothschild family and the UN. Once established with UN approval, David Ben-Gurion (after occupying illegally 70% of Palestinian lands) started a campaign of ethnic cleansing, saying in 1948: "...we have taken their country, we must ensure that they never return...we'll use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."
For over six decades Zionist Israel has pursued this hateful agenda of colonization, ethnic cleansing. murder, terrorism, land theft and cultural genocide with great success, thanks to American taxpayers, who give three billion dollars in direct and economic military assistance each year. It is widely understood that this money is currently being used to build that huge apartheid wall in the West Bank, at the cost of 1 million dollars per mile. Apartheid is a crime against humanity, Israel has deprived millions of Palestinians of their liberty and property while perpetuating a system of gross discrimination. We could accurately say Israel has become Nazi Germany, destroying their victim's lands, confiscating their property, putting them in concentration like camps, even stamping numbers on their arms as some leaked out videos have shown, a practice that even forced some Israelis top artists to speak out. One who was awarded an Israel prize said: "...the occupied territories should be given back, and that's it, we should learn from the Holocaust, not to abuse and humiliate other people." Obviously she was referring to article 49 of the Geneva convention which states that, no state should liquidate its own civilians as settlers into occupied territories. Settlers and settlement are of course propaganda phrases that evoke legitimate and comforting feelings of finding a home, however a far more accurate word to describe that illegal land grabbing is: Colonization. Settlers are colonists.

So, why doesn't the world condemn Israel and demand its withdrawal from the occupied territories? Why is it the US and Britain still fervently supporting Zionist Israel and its policies? The Israeli government is placed on a pedestal in the US and to criticize it is to be immediately dubbed "anti-Semitic. People are scared in the US to say wrong is wrong (or are just parrots), because the Jewish lobby is powerful, very powerful. The most important propaganda victory for Israel is selling the idea that they are the victims, the Palestinians are the terrorists. They do this by controlling the media, and the perception people get from it about Israel. According to Israeli Holocaust historians, the Holocaust is constantly exploited to deflect criticism of Israel and its policies, hardly a year goes by without a TV production, a new film, a new drama, new books dealing with the subject, and the flood is increasing rather than abating. The reality is that the US/Israel relationship could not withstand public scrutiny, which would quickly expose Israel not as a victim but as the most powerful country in the Middle East, talk about successful perception management. Israel is the world's fourth largest nuclear power and the fifth largest arms producer, it possesses nuclear, chemical and biological weapons, but thanks to the US, it has never signed a non-proliferation treaty or agreed to international inspection, and let's not forget it is also an occupying power, in stolen land which has not been held accountable by anyone. Anything that moves in its zone, even if it is a three year old needs to be killed, so many examples of this, too many to count, however the world never finds out about these crimes because Israel doesn't allow it, it calls itself a democracy but uses a type of propaganda called censorship. Journalists, for the most part, are not allowed to use the word Palestine, it's termed "terrorist infrastructure", these territories are not occupied, they are "disputed". Palestinians are not humans seeking freedom from oppression, they are "terrorists". The apartheid wall in the West Bank is a "security barrier', their crimes are not assassination and murder, it is "pacification". Israel is not a state sanctioned terror, it is "self-defense". All this, is part of a carefully orchestrated plan to dehumanize their victims, a tool learned from what the Nazis did to Jews, homosexuals, gypsies and the mentally challenged. This propaganda phrase is needed, when the imperialist decide to carve up or give away something that doesn't belong to them, like Palestine.

And as far as Israel society goes:
http://youtu.be/2t6XGX5MW6M

An Israeli protester sets himself (see pic) on fire for the humiliation that disenfranchising citizens go through day in and day out, that take from the poor and give to the rich, and to public servants and those that serve the State of Israel. All this during a rally Saturday night in Tel Aviv (July 14th, 2012) marking the anniversary of a wave of social protests.
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Re: Riot deaths in Peru

Postby renodante » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:21 pm

What you wrote above is the Zionist propaganda version of US/Britain/Israel.


well that was easy. just dismiss it? what i said is factual. There are over a million arabs in israel, check. they are full citizens, check. they serve in the military, the knesset, court system, school system, media, etc, check. those things aren't up for debate, they are factual, check them out (not on an anti israel youtube video, or blog, etc, go to a third party source, and you'll see it's true.) i used to be anti israel too, until i went beyond the propaganda of both sides and actually learned a little about it. israel as a state is not saintly by any stretch, no nation state is. however, it's not guilty of half the crap propagandists level against it. you talk about propaganda, but how deeply do you dig into your sources to see if it's not propaganda? For a prime example, it's hilariously ironic that you have a clip from Russia Today, which is a state-owned Kremlin backed propaganda channel that you can always rely on for biased gloom and doom reports about the U.S, its allies, and especially Israel: http://www.cjr.org/feature/what_is_russ ... p?page=all

A more accurately description of Israel would be, a terrorist, apartheid state


Being that the things I list above are true, "apartheid state" is a ridiculous claim. Did apartheid era white south africans let blacks teach their kids? Serve on courts, etc etc? The Israeli ambassador to Finland was Arab. Would you have a person from the group you're trying to ethnically cleanse represent your country abroad? Gaza/West Bank are the result of wars of aggression against Israel, not the other way around. Now, as far as settlements go, I don't support them, at all, and is one of several things that sucks about Israel. But, many Israelis also do not agree with the settlements. moving on...

which usurped Arab lands (Palestine) with the help of Britain, the Rothschild family and the UN.


"Palestine" which was always nothing but the name of the region, NOT a nation EVER, was controlled by the British at the time of the Palestine Mandate. It was Britains to divide up and do with what it pleased. Before that, it was controlled by the Ottoman Turks, who are not Arabs. Egypt (also not arabs) controlled it for a time. And on and on going back to the Romans, Hebrews etc. What Palestine never was, at any time, was an Arab nation. If you look into accounts of travelers during the time period from around the 1500's up until the early 20's you'll find they describe the region as largely unpopulated, without major infrastructure, with many towns and old cities in ruins, or near ruins. the arab population jumped by more than 400,000 from 1922 to 1946. why? because the zionists were building like crazy, turning desert into arable land, and creating massive infrastructure.

man, turns out the Jews are really bad at ethnic cleansing based on these population stats:

http://israelipalestinian.procon.org/vi ... 636#graph1

Once established with UN approval, David Ben-Gurion (after occupying illegally 70% of Palestinian lands)


It was British land. What are you even talking about here?

started a campaign of ethnic cleansing, saying in 1948: "...we have taken their country, we must ensure that they never return...we'll use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."


ok, here's a prime example of checking your sources. do you know what the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is? It's a fake document. Many people still think it's real, who don't check their sources. What's the source of your quote Joshu? From a copy of an actual document, a press conference? Or was it from an anti-zionist source?

When I searched around for the source of your quote, i can't find it. What I DID find though, is the same quote attributed to Commissioner Israel Koenig. Do you know what this almost always means? It means he didn't say it. If you can find for me the source of his supposed statement, I'd like to see it, I'm open to such things.

For over six decades Zionist Israel has pursued this hateful agenda of colonization, ethnic cleansing.


see what i wrote above for how silly the charge of "ethnic cleansing" is against israel. You don't allow the people you're trying to cleanse into your Parliament, court system, and most of all, MILITARY.

Israel has deprived millions of Palestinians of their liberty and property while perpetuating a system of gross discrimination.


educate yourself about the 4 wars against israel and the land lost due to those wars. also about how the majority of "palestinian," (an invention adopted in 1967 for political purposes, before that they simply considered themselves arabs) refugees are a result of those wars, NOT because the evil jews kicked them out of their homes at gunpoint.

Personally, half my family is Egyptian. We are all like that. More than 30 families in the Gaza Strip are called Al-Masri ["Egyptian"]. Brothers, half of the Palestinians are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis..

-Hamas Minister of the Interior and of National Security Fathi Hammad, aired by Al-Hekma TV on March 23, 2012.

Also, understand that 77% of the land set aside for the creation of Israel and which according to you is "Palestine" is controlled by Jordan. Jordan does not allow more palestinian refugees into the country, and grants none of the refugees it has citizenship. they literally live in camps, ask yourself why this is.

We could accurately say Israel has become Nazi Germany,


with all due respect, what a completely asinine thing to say. see the over 1 million arabs living as citizens in israel with no threat whatsoever of them being deported, rounded up, or threatened with any kind of violence above. Hyperbole only hurts your case.

destroying their victim's lands, confiscating their property, putting them in concentration like camps


where are these "concentration like camps" in israel? let me know where they are so i can look them up. while you're at it, check on the jordan thing i said, if we're talking camps.

even stamping numbers on their arms as some leaked out videos have shown, a practice that even forced some Israelis top artists to speak out. One who was awarded an Israel prize said: "...the occupied territories should be given back, and that's it, we should learn from the Holocaust, not to abuse and humiliate other people."


source for your numbers on arms thing? the artist speaks about these things openly in israel? if israel is like Nazi Germany, ask yourself--what would happen to an artist in Nazi Germany who spoke out openly about the treatment of Jews?

Settlers and settlement are of course propaganda phrases that evoke legitimate and comforting feelings of finding a home, however a far more accurate word to describe that illegal land grabbing is: Colonization. Settlers are colonists.


Agree with you there, settlers are a fringe minority in israel that are allowed to do what they do b/c they are heavily backed by psycho U.S evangelical christians and hardline psycho israeli jewish religious nuts who, unfortunately, have a lot of pull in government. whenever they poll, 3/5 of israeli citizens reliably state they want the settlement, and settlers removed.

So, why doesn't the world condemn Israel and demand its withdrawal from the occupied territories?


it does, all the time.

The most important propaganda victory for Israel is selling the idea that they are the victims, the Palestinians are the terrorists.


While again, I don't see Israel as innocent, they were attacked by the combined forces of the nations around them 4, count em 4 times. In between, all the way up to this very day, it is continually attacked by rockets, snipers, suicide bombers, etc. Sending kids into Israel to blow themselves up. Have you ever read the Hamas charter? It cites a verse from the Hadith:

'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Muslims fight Jews and
kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the
rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Muslim, there is a Jew hiding behind
me, come and kill him.' (Article 7)


Can you show me a charter or official Israeli government document that calls for killing all Muslims? I'll wait.

They do this by controlling the media, and the perception people get from it about Israel


of course, dem jews control everything, right? they're doing a really horrible job of controlling the media if that's the case, israel is not doing well in the PR wars.

According to Israeli Holocaust historians


is this like Alex Jones' "major university studies show" or "i have the documents?" what israeli holocaust historians? and again, hmmmm, a society that is just like Nazi Germany, with historians from that society criticizing the country and the use of the holocaust? what's wrong with this picture?

the Holocaust is constantly exploited to deflect criticism of Israel and its policies, hardly a year goes by without a TV production, a new film, a new drama, new books dealing with the subject


wait, so covering one of the most horrendous events in human history is all part of the zionist plan?

Israel is the world's fourth largest nuclear power and the fifth largest arms producer, it possesses nuclear, chemical and biological weapons,


Total warheads by nation:
U.S-8,000
russia-10,000
U.K-225
France-300
China-240
India-80-100
Pakistan-90-110
North Korea-less than 10
Israel 80-200
(federation of american scientists statistics)

which would make it 6th, not a big mistake, but for the sake of accuracy.

as for "fifth largest arms producer," nonsense, israel ranks 10th by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute for exports. if you're talking about production alone, not relevant. it's no shocker a country the size of New Jersey surrounded by enemies has the weapons you speak of and produces lots of them.

but thanks to the US, it has never signed a non-proliferation treaty or agreed to international inspection


agreed, not a fan of that either.

and let's not forget it is also an occupying power, in stolen land which has not been held accountable by anyone
.

you can't steal something that didn't belong to someone else.

i can't keep going because you pack way too much into your post. it's best to keep it down to a topic or two, not a shotgun blast of claims. But you end your post with a photo of an Israeli protester setting himself on fire protesting rising cost of living (primarily).

So, in Nazi Germany, did the people have the right to free assembly like this? Hopefully by now you realize how foolish your Nazi Germany statement is. Would Der Stürmer print an article like this: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-d ... s-1.432273 that criticized the Nazi state? Have you ever actually read an Israeli newspaper? I don't think so, because if you had you'd see they use the terms you claim they never use all the time. Again, this is the difference between going to the source, and getting your information filtered to you through a biased source that selectively edits/spins/adds what is needed to keep you towing the party line.
Last edited by renodante on Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:36 pm, edited 10 times in total.
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Re: Riot deaths in Peru

Postby Comet » Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:04 pm

renodante wrote:
What you wrote above is the Zionist propaganda version of US/Britain/Israel.


well that was easy. just dismiss it? what i said is factual. There are over a million arabs in israel, check. they are full citizens, check. they serve in the military, the knesset, court system, school system, media, etc, check. those things aren't up for debate, they are factual, check them out (not on an anti israel youtube video, or blog, etc, go to a third party source, and you'll see it's true.) i used to be anti israel too, until i went beyond the propaganda of both sides and actually learned a little about it. israel as a state is not saintly by any stretch, no nation state is. however, it's not guilty of half the crap propagandists level against it. you talk about propaganda, but how deeply do you dig into your sources to see if it's not propaganda?

A more accurately description of Israel would be, a terrorist, apartheid state


Being that the things I list above are true, "apartheid state" is a ridiculous claim. Did apartheid era white south africans let blacks teach their kids? Serve on courts, etc etc? The Israeli ambassador to Finland was Arab. Would you have a person from the group you're trying to ethnically cleanse represent your country abroad? ... etc


Advantage Renodante ..........
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Re: Riot deaths in Peru

Postby Comet » Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:08 pm

chi chi wrote:Still a little compared what's going on in Syria. I hope the violence stops their soon but I think it's a little to late.

I think you mean " THERE"... "their" is 3rd person possessive.... :mrgreen:
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Re: Riot deaths in Peru

Postby JoshuS » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:21 pm

Redodante wrote: well that was easy. just dismiss it? what i said is factual. There are over a million arabs in israel, check. they are full citizens, check. they serve in the military, the knesset, court system, school system, media, etc, check. those things aren't up for debate, they are factual, check them out (not on an anti israel youtube video, or blog, etc, go to a third party source, and you'll see it's true.) i used to be anti israel too, until i went beyond the propaganda of both sides and actually learned a little about it. israel as a state is not saintly by any stretch, no nation state is. however, it's not guilty of half the crap propagandists level against it. you talk about propaganda, but how deeply do you dig into your sources to see if it's not propaganda? For a prime example, it's hilariously ironic that you have a clip from Russia Today, which is a state-owned Kremlin backed propaganda channel that you can always rely on for biased gloom and doom reports about the U.S, its allies, and especially Israel: http://www.cjr.org/feature/what_is_russ ... p?page=all


Sure, but what your Zionist sources won't tell you is that a little over a million Palestinians live in Israel as “Israeli citizens,” but despite their status as citizens, they are subject to systematic discrimination. Many are prohibited from living in the villages and homes from which they were violently expelled, and their property has been confiscated for Jewish-only uses, more than half a million acres were expropriated from their owners. So, Israeli law designates these internal refugees as “present absentees". I'm not anti-Israel, I'm anti-Zionism and the Zionist machine that rule Israel. As for RT, I don't kill the messenger, I check the message, the source, whether is true or not and if presented within a sound and real context. Fact is, US corporate media is known for its lies and deception, only the ignorant, and foolish fall for their canned propaganda, including the link you attached. It's interesting to me, how you don't even mention the Palestinians' suffering at the hands of Israel apartheid state, and that's the point, Israel PR campaign has succeeded in keep Palestinians as "invisible", non-persons, and disposable. Fortunately, more and more people are waking up to this reality and standing up to it.

Redodante wrote: Being that the things I list above are true, "apartheid state" is a ridiculous claim. Did apartheid era white south africans let blacks teach their kids? Serve on courts, etc etc? The Israeli ambassador to Finland was Arab. Would you have a person from the group you're trying to ethnically cleanse represent your country abroad? Gaza/West Bank are the result of wars of aggression against Israel, not the other way around. Now, as far as settlements go, I don't support them, at all, and is one of several things that sucks about Israel. But, many Israelis also do not agree with the settlements. moving on...


What makes a state an apartheid state? Its laws. And these laws at the core, are just there to promote "Israel for the Jews and Jews only." An example of that is for example, that Israeli courts, guided by the Supreme Court, have consistently decided that discrimination between Arabs and Jews is legitimate based on the founding principles of Israel as a state for the Jewish people; "nationality" is considered a legitimate basis for discrimination. Even the Goldstone report, which the Zionists have tried hardly to suppress by intimidation and fear tactics, affirms the analysis of Israel as a regime that combines: occupation, colonialism and apartheid. Anybody with some Jewish roots can become an Israeli and live there, which would imply full allegiance to the Jewish( Zionist) state, so what difference does it make whether Avi Ganot (Ambassador) is an Arab of sorts or not (just because he lived in some Arab country prior), as long as he's loyal to the State. A quarter or half Peruvian Jew could do that too. The aggression started with Israel, when the Zionists decided to usurp and land grab little by little Palestine territory, a territory that was inhabited by 96% non-Jews, more or less at the end of 19th century and beginnings of the 20th, mostly Muslims and Christians. What's even more revealing is that these fanatic Zionists whose goal was the creation of a Jewish State, didn't think of the Middle East as first option, they had considered other parts of the world prior, such as South America.

Redodante wrote: "Palestine" which was always nothing but the name of the region, NOT a nation EVER, was controlled by the British at the time of the Palestine Mandate. It was Britain to divide up and do with what it pleased. Before that, it was controlled by the Ottoman Turks, who are not Arabs. Egypt (also not arabs) controlled it for a time. And on and on going back to the Romans, Hebrews etc. What Palestine never was, at any time, was an Arab nation. If you look into accounts of travelers during the time period from around the 1500's up until the early 20's you'll find they describe the region as largely unpopulated, without major infrastructure, with many towns and old cities in ruins, or near ruins. the arab population jumped by more than 400,000 from 1922 to 1946. why? because the zionists were building like crazy, turning desert into arable land, and creating massive infrastructure.
man, turns out the Jews are really bad at ethnic cleansing based on these population stats
It was British land. What are you even talking about here?


The name of a region which didn't belong to Jews, and that doesn't give them the right to usurp it as their divine right either, and it was Anthony Ashley Cooper, a renowned proponent of the Christian Zionist Movement, one of the first to popularize the idea of Palestine being without legitimate children and of being a barren land with little or no inhabitants. Again, more Zionist propaganda. Let's keep in mind that by late 1800's Palestine was a multicultural society with 4% Jews, 10% Christian Palestinians and 86% Muslim Palestinians. And by 1930's Jewish land ownership had increased from about 1% to about 6%, of course this was a process. It was over decades beginning at the start of the 20th century, that Zionists made use of several strategies to accomplish their goal of usurping Palestine, which was not unpopulated as their books try to claim. Financially backed by the Rothschilds, one of their strategies was to encourage Jewish immigration, using deceptive slogans such as: "a land without a people, for people without a land." When in reality Palestine had inhabitants, hence the hatred we see today, fueled by both sides, based also on religious non-sense. They were turned down by the Ottomans, but the resorting to a great power, British eventually agreed, as well as the US to further their cause with this process of taking over Palestine. There were powerful political, geopolitical and money interest behind all this which are not discussed at all in the Zionist version of their story. Another strategy they use was, many times through subterfuge, to buy up land, refusing to allow non-Jews to live or work on the purchased land, they were "redeeming" the land as they call it and it was primarily financed by the Rothschilds , an extremely wealthy banking family. Another tactic they used was violence, yes violence, the Zionists had several Zionist terrorists gangs which were very active against the indigenous population of Palestine(Christian/Muslim Palestinians) prior to their "war of independence" in late 40's, and many of those member gang leaders were to become later Israel Prime Ministers.


Redodante wrote: ok, here's a prime example of checking your sources. do you know what the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is? It's a fake document. Many people still think it's real, who don't check their sources. What's the source of your quote Joshu? From a copy of an actual document, a press conference? Or was it from an anti-zionist source?
When I searched around for the source of your quote, i can't find it. What I DID find though, is the same quote attributed to Commissioner Israel Koenig. Do you know what this almost always means? It means he didn't say it. If you can find for me the source of his supposed statement, I'd like to see it, I'm open to such things.


"By their deeds, we shall know them". OK, let's assume for the sake of argument, these protocols may or may not exist, whether "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" are true or not, nonetheless, deducing from their violent historical actions, their violent doctrine and ideology, statements from their leaders, and even David Ben-Gurion (coming later) whatever means to justify their "divine right to their land", we could infer these protocols could very well exist. Then again, it doesn't really matter if they exist or not, their actions is a statement of their true intent.

Redodante wrote: see what i wrote above for how silly the charge of "ethnic cleansing" is against israel. You don't allow the people you're trying to cleanse into your Parliament, court system, and most of all, MILITARY.


This has been refuted in my first paragraph.

Redodante wrote: educate yourself about the 4 wars against israel and the land lost due to those wars. also about how the majority of "palestinian," (an invention adopted in 1967 for political purposes, before that they simply considered themselves arabs) refugees are a result of those wars, NOT because the evil jews kicked them out of their homes at gunpoint.


Some of those aggressions against Israel, sadly, are the result of the hatred accumulated over the years for having started something the Zionists shouldn't have started in the first place. Usurping lands as if they belong to them and them only. And they keep doing it! Anyway, as I was saying before above, the growing violence of those Zionist gangs prior to their war of independence, used violence tactics against Palestinians of different ethnicity, which resulted in numerous deaths.

This growing violence culminated in Israel's ruthless 1947-49 "War of Independence", in which at least 750,000 Palestinian men, women, and children were expelled from their homes by numerically superior Israeli forces, half before any Arab armies joined the war. This massive humanitarian disaster is known as ‘The Catastrophe,’ al Nakba in Arabic. Does your Zionist sources talk about this? The Zionists, committed about 33 massacres, destroying 531 Palestinians towns. In his book: "Image and Reality of the Israel-Palestine Conflict", page 29, which I have, Norman Finkelstein quotes a message from future prime minister Menachem Begin, head of the Irgun Zionist terrorist group, commending them on the grisly massacre of women, children, and old men at the village of Deir Yassin:

"Accept my congratulations on this splendid act of conquest. Convey my regards to all the commanders and soldiers. We shake your hands. We are all proud of the excellent leadership and the fighting spirit in this great attack. We stand to attention in memory of the slain. We lovingly shake the hands of the wounded. Tell the soldiers: you have made history in Israel with your attack and your conquest. Continue thus until victory. As in Deir Yassin, so everywhere, we will attack and smite the enemy. God, God, Thou has chosen us for conquest." This latter phrase says it all.

Redodante wrote: with all due respect, what a completely asinine thing to say. see the over 1 million arabs living as citizens in israel with no threat whatsoever of them being deported, rounded up, or threatened with any kind of violence above. Hyperbole only hurts your case.


I refute this above also. "Citizens", sure, but second and third class citizens.

Redodante wrote: where are these "concentration like camps" in israel? let me know where they are so i can look them up. while you're at it, check on the jordan thing i said, if we're talking camps.


I'm referring to the Palestinian refugee camps, Palestinians who lost their homes as a result of the Arab/Israeli war in 1948, Palestinians who were either forced or choose to leave. Of course there are many of them in different countries, not just Jordan, like: Lebanon, Syria, West Bank, Gaza Strip. The numbers of these have grown over the years from 914,000 to 4.6 million, with the ever present settlements taking place, destroying Palestinians homes while slowly depriving them of basic services. This history and ongoing events we don't hear in most Western news, it's not explained or even mentioned, you must wonder why. One has to dig up this ignored information. These refugees, especially those in the Gaza Strip and West Bank have a story to tell, not the air brushed western version of the new Israeli state, born in blood, mass slaughter, destruction, displacement of hundred of thousand of survivors, to this day oppressed, harassed, intimidated, humiliated, attacked, and arrested for being Muslims, not Jews in their own land, in their own country, illegally occupied for decades.

Redodante wrote: While again, I don't see Israel as innocent, they were attacked by the combined forces of the nations around them 4, count em 4 times.


This is not accurate at all, again you keep spewing more Zionist propaganda. Most of the wars and aggression were started by Israel, and perhaps a couple of open aggressions against them by surrounding neighbors to regain stolen land and as a response to those Israel initiating wars anyway (built in hatred caused by Israel usurpation), beginning with the acts of violence before and after their "war of independence" from the British mandate, as explained before. This is factual history.

Redodante wrote: In between, all the way up to this very day, it is continually attacked by rockets, snipers, suicide bombers, etc. Sending kids into Israel to blow themselves up.


Notwithstanding the fact that this violence Palestinians resort to, as a desperate counter measures to get at a Goliath, who oppresses them in every which way, you mean to tell me, you are comparing these desperate "primitive" ways of retaliation and hatred with a military super power who possesses nuclear, chemical and biological weapons, backed a world super powers to boot? Wow! I have to tell you, get your facts straight and stop looking facts upside down. In "Operation Cast Lead" 2008-09, they killed hundreds of children and innocent Palestinians, using white phosphorous ammunitions as a way to experiment on them, killing and injuring them, damaging civilian structures, schools, markets, a humanitarian aid post and a hospital. These are crimes against humanity for heaven's sake.
http://www.hrw.org/features/rain-fire-w ... horus-gaza

Redodante wrote: Have you ever read the Hamas charter? It cites a verse from the Hadith:
'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Muslims fight Jews and
kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the
rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Muslim, there is a Jew hiding behind
me, come and kill him.' (Article 7)
Can you show me a charter or official Israeli government document that calls for killing all Muslims? I'll wait.


I can't find this quote anywhere, however I could care less whether it is true or not. I'm not the religious type anyway. And for me, there's no need to read a statement like that to understand, there's hatred built-in in groups like Hamas or Fatah, all is needed is for one to understand the true history of how the state of Israel came to be to realize why this ongoing struggle persist. However, I can give you a quote by David Ben-Gurion, the Zionist founder and first Prime Minister of Israel, addressing the Zionist Action Committee, talking about the 'Arab Demographic Problem' :

"We will not be able to win the war if we do not, during the war, populate upper and lower, eastern and western Galilee, the Negev and Jerusalem area, even if only in an artificial way, in a military way.... I believe that war will also bring in its wake a great change in the distribution of Arab population."
Ben-Gurion also wrote: "The war shall give us the land. The concepts of 'ours' and 'not ours' are peace concepts only, and they lose their meaning during war." "In the Negev we shall not buy the land. We shall conquer it. You forget that we are at war."
A warmonger for sure, who reflects the Zionist quest for Jews for Israel at all cost, on stolen land no less.

Redodante wrote: they're doing a really horrible job of controlling the media if that's the case, israel is not doing well in the PR wars.


On the contrary, you are tacit proof of how successful they are in the propaganda campaign for misinformation.

Redodante wrote: is this like Alex Jones' "major university studies show" or "i have the documents?" what israeli holocaust historians? and again, hmmmm, a society that is just like Nazi Germany, with historians from that society criticizing the country and the use of the holocaust? what's wrong with this picture?


There are plenty of Jewish historians out there FYI who have written true account books, who are not Zionists and give a neutral and accurate information detached from non-sense like "we are the chosen people". Google them.

Redodante wrote: wait, so covering one of the most horrendous events in human history is all part of the zionist plan?


Schindler's list , The Piano, Exodus and many recent others are just Zionist PR to create rapport towards Israel and ignore Zionist oppression against Palestinians.

Redodante wrote:Total warheads by nation:
U.S-8,000
russia-10,000
U.K-225
France-300
China-240
India-80-100
Pakistan-90-110
North Korea-less than 10
Israel 80-200
(federation of american scientists statistics)
which would make it 6th, not a big mistake, but for the sake of accuracy. as for "fifth largest arms producer," nonsense, israel ranks 10th by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute for exports. if you're talking about production alone, not relevant. it's no shocker a country the size of New Jersey surrounded by enemies has the weapons you speak of and produces lots of them.


I could've been wrong with my statistics, sure, but in the final analysis, does it matter whether they are 4th, 6th or 89th? Israel has an estimated arsenal of 100 weapons all of which are considered deliverable. A most military super power in the Middle East. It comprises mostly non-strategic (tactical) weapons deliverable by several types of aircraft including F-4 Phantoms, F-16s and F-15Es. There is also concern that Israel has equipped its conventionally powered submarines with cruise missiles armed with nuclear warheads. Not to mention biological and chemical weapons. How do that sophisticated and high Tec armament stack up against Hamas' rockets, suicide bombers, stones ? To be clear, I'm against all violence, and deaths on both sides. Human lives are human lives, and it's sad to see this crisis that need not be to begin with.

Redodante wrote:you can't steal something that didn't belong to someone else.


Gosh, more Zionist propaganda. The claim that Palestine was an almost empty, barren land waiting for the Jews to claim it as their divine right. There were people living in Palestine, of which only 4% were Jews, it was multicultural society during the Ottoman's.

Redodante wrote: But you end your post with a photo of an Israeli protester setting himself on fire protesting rising cost of living (primarily). So, in Nazi Germany, did the people have the right to free assembly like this?


Right, you can assemble in the streets of Israel and protest, as long as you don't talk against their apartheid, terrorist state of Israel and the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians or they'll do to you what happened to this brave Jewish young man:
http://youtu.be/8O3FinFIyiI
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Re: Riot deaths in Peru

Postby renodante » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:13 pm

"tried hardly"

OK, let's assume for the sake of argument, these protocols may or may not exist, whether "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" are true or not, nonetheless, deducing from their violent historical actions, their violent doctrine and ideology, statements from their leaders, and even David Ben-Gurion (coming later) whatever means to justify their "divine right to their land", we could infer these protocols could very well exist.


Ok I have your number now and don't have to even read further, maybe you sprinkled a little Holocaust denial or perhaps the Blood Libel into the mix? You've never met a half-baked conspiracy theory you didn't immediately fall in love with have you? nor do you fact check any of the sources that agree with your prejudices, beliefs, and assumptions.

and foolish fall for their canned propaganda, including the link you attached.


(ok, i'm a glutton for punishment i suppose)

You mean the link from the Columbia Journalism Review? Who have published articles like "Israel's Chilling New Law," "Speech in Israel is Not Free," "Access Issues (about Israel not allowing enough access to foreign press)" and many others critical of Israel. Now, I know you didn't read it, nor do you know anything about CJR, but even if you did, they have articles covering both perspectives, so that would be all you need to label it as "canned propaganda" right? It would have to be 100% against Israel for you to give it any credence, b/c that's how you roll.

There are plenty of Jewish historians out there FYI who have written true account books, who are not Zionists and give a neutral and accurate information detached from non-sense like "we are the chosen people". Google them.


You said Israeli, and you mentioned specifically about the holocaust being used as an excuse for Zionism. Can't even mention one? And in fact I know that such historians exist, the problem this poses for you is the fact they are Israeli, living in Israel, a state that according to you has "become Nazi Germany." Because we all know the Nazis welcomed their historians writing critical works about the Nazi state...

your quip about "chosen people" is one of many bits of evidence it's Judaism in general you have a problem with, together with your idea that even if the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion is fake, it's ok for it to be out there, because Jews do in fact run the world behind the scenes and they act just like how they're portrayed in that fraudulent "document."

It's interesting to me, how you don't even mention the Palestinians' suffering at the hands of Israel apartheid state,


because i'm responding to specific points you are making that are factually incorrect. if you notice i mentioned i'm against the settlements, why i'm against them ties into Palestinian suffering.

I can't find this quote anywhere, however I could care less whether it is true or not. I'm not the religious type anyway.


you're either lying or you can't use google, either way you're making yourself look really foolish. take a sentence or two and put it in quotes, then plug it into google search. you'll then find hits for that quote going back about 20 pages. or you could have pulled up the charter, where i said it was, and read it, but that would entail moving beyond your intellectual laziness. and the point went over your head, the point is in the actual charter of the party elected by a majority of palestinians, it calls for the genocide of all jews, i asked you to cite for me an offical israeli document that talks about killing every last muslim, but it's ok, just stick to youtube and blogs. From the Israeli Declaration of Independence:

In the midst of wanton aggression, we yet call upon the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to
return to the ways of peace and play their part in the development of the State, with full and equal
citizenship and due representation in its bodies and institutions - provisional or permanent.


sounds just like something a state that's exactly like Nazi Germany would declare isn't it? :shock: and it's funny that you seem keenly interested in religion when it comes to the concept of being "chosen" and with Biblical claims to the land, but you just can't be bothered when Hamas or Hezbollah cites religious texts calling for exterminating ALL jews. You should develop an interest in religion because it plays an enormous role in both sides of this conflict. "I'm not the religious type anyway" nor am I, yet I'm able to process and understand religious issues out there in the world, amazing huh?

my "zionist sources?" every source i linked you to was third party. if you bothered to look around you'd also find The Protocols of the Elders of Zion lifts entire blocks of text from from works by Maurice Joly and novelist Hermann Goedsche's Biarritz, an anti-Semitic novel and just changes a word or two around, but you never bothered to check the sources that show it to be a hoax and forged document, you know, like you didn't bother to check that ridiculous hoax youtube video of bombs blowing up WTC7.

You should have fact-checked your "palestinian loss of land" map. i'll leave it to you to do so (although you won't, of course) but am just mentioning it in case someone else reading who is interested in the truth decides to look into it, and look into Mulk, Miri, Mahlul, and Mawat bases for land ownership in the pre-Israel Palestine region. Short story, the green was not land "owned" by Palestinians. The section on that map that shows "UN Partition Plan, 1947" is in fact the UN partition plan, that Israel accepted and the Arabs DID NOT accept, but this map pretends to show gradual Israeli land grabs. The changing map afterwards is a result of the wars I spoke about earlier, you know, the ones where Arab nations came together and vowed to annihilate Israel, and are the reason for the massive uprooting of Palestinians who either left to not be caught in the crossfire, or to join said Arab armies. They were asked to stay, by Israel in fact, but many left for the above reasons and others. Those that stayed still live in Israel, as citizens.

I love how you just skip over the points I showed you to be wrong on and focus on whatever you want especially regarding your asinine "accurately Nazi Germany" statement. You have no credibility, won't make the mistake of taking you seriously again.

chau
Last edited by renodante on Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:58 pm, edited 18 times in total.
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Re: Riot deaths in Peru

Postby chi chi » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:29 pm

renodante wrote:"tried hardly"

OK, let's assume for the sake of argument, these protocols may or may not exist, whether "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" are true or not, nonetheless, deducing from their violent historical actions, their violent doctrine and ideology, statements from their leaders, and even David Ben-Gurion (coming later) whatever means to justify their "divine right to their land", we could infer these protocols could very well exist.


Ok I have your number now and don't have to even read further, maybe you sprinkled a little Holocaust denial or perhaps the Blood Libel into the mix? You've never met a half-baked conspiracy theory you didn't immediately fall in love with have you?

chau


Giving back the whole country to the Palestinian people will be the best solution.
It will be the best for both parties.
How many terrorist attacks must be carried out before it will finally happen?
All Arab countries are against Israel.

How many more people will have to die before Israel is given back to the palestinians?
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Re: Riot deaths in Peru

Postby renodante » Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:45 am

How many terrorist attacks must be carried out before it will finally happen?


so we should capitulate to arab countries and do anything they want, lest they continually use terrorism against us? One of the reasons Al Queda cited for its jihad against the U.S was that we intervened in the genocide against East Timur by Indonesia. That's the route you'll have to go down when you start giving terrorists what they want.

Israel isn't going anywhere and you can't give "back" a country that wasn't there before the zionists built it. If you live in a territory that has been under control by one empire/nation after another for thousands of years, unfortunately you're subject to the whims of those who occupy the area. "The Palestinians" who have lived in the area have always been subjects: of the romans, hassamites, turks, egyptians, jordanians, british. They simply can't abide Jews being the ones in charge, but Israel exists and every attempt to annihilate it militarily by Arab nations has been an epic failure, and it's time to start dealing with this reality. It's as likely the U.S will hand the keys back to the Native Americans and say "well, we had a good run, we're leaving now, enjoy the country, good luck." "Palestinians" are nothing like Native Americans though, most of them are immigrants from other areas of the Middle East. Yasser Arafat was egyptian, in the words of PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein july 25,1977:

The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.
For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.


Most borders in the Middle East are under dispute, there is constant internecine fighting among arabs on tribal grounds, sectarian grounds, and many others. But yes, let's bow and give them whatever they want, and teach them if they're unhappy about something, just kill civilians and the West will do their bidding. Good plan.
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Re: Riot deaths in Peru

Postby JoshuS » Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:29 pm

BTW, often I've mentioned PROPAGANDA (or PR) in the discussion...here's a powerful and very interesting documentary based on history and factual events, with good exposé by experts (some of their books I've read) of how it works, how it's been done throughout history by the elites and the powerful to shape our perception and opinions, in a way most people don't even realize, such as Redodante's factoids on Palestine and Israel, which is nothing less than Zionist PR propagated by them, the US, Britain through powerful PR firms. Most of the people in the West, sadly, buy into these factoids in general, not just about Israel/Palestine conflict, because that's what the powerful and rich have written as official history through so called 'official and instituted, "respectable" organizations', therefore accepted as standard and truth. But reality is beneath that innocent facade. This documentary will help those who want to learn how it all works. If I control your perception, I control your reality, therefore I control you.

PSY-WAR (Psychological War or operations)
http://www.openfilm.com/videos/psywar-remastered

"The only thing new in the world, is the history you don't know." HT
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Re: Riot deaths in Peru

Postby renodante » Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:46 pm

"i don't kill the messenger"
links from groups that include information and articles that show Israel in various lights, both favorable and unfavorable are presented and it's
"well, that's all just Zionist propaganda."

:lol:

to shape our perception and opinions, in a way most people don't even realize


from a guy who posted a hoax 911 video as fact, and who doesn't have it in him to come to terms with the fact that one of the most infamous examples of anti-jew propaganda in history is a complete fiction, fraud, forgery, and plagiary. and who posted the FAKE david ben-gurion "we must use terror, assasination, intimidatio..." quote. i challenge you, or anyone else to cite me the source of that quote, where and when did he say that? You're as bad as my dad with his phony right wing chain emails he sends me full of outright lies about Obama, etc. I could invent a fake Zionist quote right now and you'd buy it in a minute.

Most of the wars and aggression were started by Israel, and perhaps a couple of open aggressions against them by surrounding neighbors to regain stolen land and as a response to those Israel initiating wars anyway


i'm almost at a loss for words when i read things like this. you realize you're speaking to other adults, who have access to information readily, via the internet and elsewhere right? yet you try to bluff your way through a subject you've obviously not researched. i mean, i can tell you've barely delved into 100% pro palestinian sources sufficiently, forget about sources not filtered through either Israeli or Palestinian spin doctors, you haven't even peeked at them.

so what difference does it make whether Avi Ganot (Ambassador) is an Arab of sorts or not (just because he lived in some Arab country prior), as long as he's loyal to the State.


I mentioned the former ambassador to Finland who was Ali Yahya, Granot is not Arab at all, which is why I said "was an Arab." You can't research to save your life, next time try something like "Arab Israeli ambassador finland" or something similar, you'll get it sooner or later.
Last edited by renodante on Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:23 pm, edited 14 times in total.
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Re: Riot deaths in Peru

Postby renodante » Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:06 pm

"I believe that The Protocols of the Elders of Zion are a forgery … [However,] I believe in the intrinsic, but not in the factual, truth of The Protocols,"


Joseph Goebbels from his diary: 1924.

"By their deeds, we shall know them". OK, let's assume for the sake of argument, these protocols may or may not exist, whether "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" are true or not, nonetheless, deducing from their violent historical actions, their violent doctrine and ideology, statements from their leaders, and even David Ben-Gurion (coming later) whatever means to justify their "divine right to their land", we could infer these protocols could very well exist. Then again, it doesn't really matter if they exist or not, their actions is a statement of their true intent.


JoshuS, post on ExpatPeru: 2012.
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Re: Riot deaths in Peru

Postby JoshuS » Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:20 pm

renodante wrote:
"I believe that The Protocols of the Elders of Zion are a forgery … [However,] I believe in the intrinsic, but not in the factual, truth of The Protocols,"

Joseph Goebbels from his diary: 1924.
"By their deeds, we shall know them". OK, let's assume for the sake of argument, these protocols may or may not exist, whether "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" are true or not, nonetheless, deducing from their violent historical actions, their violent doctrine and ideology, statements from their leaders, and even David Ben-Gurion (coming later) whatever means to justify their "divine right to their land", we could infer these protocols could very well exist. Then again, it doesn't really matter if they exist or not, their actions is a statement of their true intent.

JoshuS, post on ExpatPeru: 2012.



Redodante wrote:from a guy who posted a hoax 911 video as fact, and who doesn't have it in him to come to terms with thefact that one of the most infamous examples of anti-jew propaganda in history is a complete fiction, fraud, forgery, and plagiary..


Using red herring is a sign you run out of factual arguments, I'll take you anytime in another 9/11 tread, as it has been proven beyond reasonable doubt already that the official "investigation" was a sham and 9/11 was an inside job anyway.

Redodante wrote:and who posted the FAKE david ben-gurion "we must use terror, assasination, intimidatio..." quote.
i challenge you, or anyone else to cite me the source of that quote, where and when did he say that?
"...we have taken their country, we must ensure that they never return...we'll use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." David Ben Gurion


Fake? I can tell you beyond any doubt, that that statement exists, I don't even need to quote any textual source, Why ? Simple, I'll quote you a REAL source, FACTS. They have been DOING IT and a ARE DOING IT, each and every word in that statement, who you are trying to deceive, you don't even know what the terrorist and apartheid state of Israel is really about, I can tell you what they are about, all of that in that quote. THEY ARE DOING IT.

Redodante wrote:i'm almost at a loss for words when i read things like this. you realize you're speaking to other adults, who have access to information readily, via the internet and elsewhere right? yet you try to bluff your way through a subject you've obviously not researched. i mean, i can tell you've barely delved into 100% pro palestinian sources sufficiently, forget about sources not filtered through either Israeli or Palestinian spin doctors, you haven't even peeked at them.


Here, perhaps you could learn something about the Zionists, not their well funded propaganda. But somehow I doubt you will ever do.

Jews against Zionism
http://youtu.be/kh2mdPbYnZI

Occupation 101: Oppression of Palestine
http://youtu.be/QRH5k52fGzw

Palestine: Displacement Oppression and Genocide
http://youtu.be/SPvbpkJ_stU

Geralf Kaufmann, A British Jewish MP, Denounces Israeli Atrocities in Palestine
http://youtu.be/E3-27vfLDBc

Israeli Terrorist Execute 13 year old Palestinian girl
http://youtu.be/9Y0Mi9UztOk

“We have forgotten that we have not come to an empty land to inherit it, but we have come to conquer a country from people inhabiting it, that governs it by the virtue of its language and savage culture .....” Moshe Sharett, 1914

"I don't understand your optimism.," Ben-Gurion declared. "Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? David Ben-Gurion, 1973

“There is no more Palestine. Finished.”
Moshe Dayan

"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial."
Source: Quoted in BBC News Online, 25 March, 2001 Ariel Sharon, 2001

“Everybody has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements because everything we take now will stay ours… ”
Source: Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

David Ben-Gurion, commenting on the proposed Peel Commission Partition plan in 1937
“We must expel Arabs and take their places …. and, if we have to use force-not to dispossess the Arabs of the Negev and Transjordan, but to guarantee our own right to settle in those places-then we have force at our disposal.”
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Re: Riot deaths in Peru

Postby JoshuS » Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:22 pm

More:

Palestinian Refugees - Human Rights Denied
http://youtu.be/lB7q5YHfP_w

Israeli Soldiers Break Bones Of Palestinian Youths
http://youtu.be/Zn4mS5wGx10

Rachel Corrie - Interview
Footage from Rachel's interview conducted by Middle East Broadcasting Company on March 14th, 2003, two days before she was murdered (crushed) by an Israeli bulldozer rolling on to crush a Palestinian home.
http://youtu.be/O3JI-axaRF4

Bulldozers destroying Palestinian homes- Israel/Palestine
http://youtu.be/EC6C-cAc240
Bulldozers are the iron fist of the Israeli army, used to destroy Palestinian homes, uproot orchards and build illegal settlements. But it was the death of Rachel Corrie that brought to international attention...

Rachel Corrie: An American Conscience
http://youtu.be/IatIDytPeQ0

Rachel Corrie had been crushed to death by an Israeli-driven Caterpillar bulldozer.
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Re: Riot deaths in Peru

Postby JoshuS » Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:24 pm

And more:

United States: The Silence of a Nation
http://youtu.be/MQWUbPN4ooM

Israeli army 'using white phosphorus'
http://youtu.be/MKgph9PV3SA
Human rights groups say Israel is indiscriminately using white phosphorus in Gaza's densely populated areas.
When ignited, the chemical can burn the flesh off of a person, down to the bone.
Israel says the use of white phosphorus is permitted under international law, although it hasn't openly admitted using the chemical.
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Re: Riot deaths in Peru

Postby renodante » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:16 pm

Fake? I can tell you beyond any doubt, that that statement exists, I don't even need to quote any textual source, Why ? Simple, I'll quote you a REAL source FACTS. They have been DOING IT and a ARE DOING IT,


when you argue with formally educated adults, if you can't cite the source of your quote, as in, where and when it was said originally, so it can be checked, your quote can be dismissed as false. you're unable to cite the source because the quote is fake, period. Especially when the only place one can find the quote is on virulently anti israeli websites, and even more so, when the same quote is attributed to other leaders, aside from Ben Gurion. Yes the quote exists, it exists on anti israel websites and blogs, on Hamas/Hezbollah sympathetic websites, etc. it's a fake quote, you're not posting on a conspiracy blog where everyone will buy whatever quote you throw out there to prove your point.

oh and for the record, lying about something and making up/repeating false quotations in order to convince people of something, and justifying it as ok because "well, i believe they really think that way anyway" is propaganda. Goebells would be proud.

Using red herring is a sign you run out of factual arguments,


spare us, please. you mirrored the sentiment of Goebells, perfectly and i pointed it out by laying your statements side by side, they're identical in essence which is: it doesn't matter if it's fake or not, because you believe the message to be true. congratulations, you're defending The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. i pointed out your past blunders only to show you have no business lecturing anyone about propaganda when you are the prime target of propaganda going in the opposite direction and you eat it all up unquestioningly. guess what? israel puts forth propaganda, of course, you mean there's gambling in the casino? the difference between you and i, apparently is that my eyes are open enough to acknowledge that the side i'm more favorable to would do such a thing. you demonstrate a complete inability to admit such a thing when it comes to causes you hold dear, and when what you put forth is exposed to be false, you deny it, or ignore it, because you couldn't care less about the truth or "facts" so again, tell it to someone who buys such nonsense.

for the sake of time i'm not going to attempt to look for each of the quotes you've shotgunned at me, like i said, stick to one thing at a time if you want point by point responses. flurries of youtube clips are, well, youtube clips, especially when most of them are from Al Jazeera and RT. The man who warns us about media conglomerates trusts a media outlet that is state owned, owned by a state that is a major purchaser of oil from Iran. But I forgot, you don't kill the messenger...unless the messenger is saying something contrary to what you believe in, then the messenger is automatically claimed to be run behind the scenes by zionists, agents of the NWO, or whatever sinister cabal is convenient for the conversation. I WILL though, expose you further for quoting THIS gem, which I knew was just a matter of time:

“We must expel Arabs and take their places …. and, if we have to use force-not to dispossess the Arabs of the Negev and Transjordan, but to guarantee our own right to settle in those places-then we have force at our disposal.”

The original source for this, before it was doctored by Benny Morris, was in a letter to Amos Ben Gurion, his son, printed in The Burning Ground. Here's what he actually said in that document:

“We do not wish, we do not need to expel the Arabs and take their
place. All our aspirations are built upon the assumption — proven
throughout all our activity in the Land — that there is enough room in
the country for ourselves and the Arabs.”


Ben-Gurion, letter to his son 5 October 1937,
quoted in Shabtai Teveth, Ben Gurion: The Burning Ground,
p 612

If you dispute that this is where Morris found the quote he distorted, and that an actual quote exists matching the one you posted, please tell me the source, where (a newspaper interview, a government document, a press conference, a speech, whatever) so it can be checked.

like, "pics or it didn't happen," "source or it wasn't said" i'll wait.

the sentiment of "i don't need to cite sources because i assert they do the things the quotes say they do" doesn't fly my friend, and only shows how disingenous you are, having the audacity to warn us about "propaganda."

50 bucks says you're a Holocaust denier to boot.
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Re: Riot deaths in Peru

Postby JoshuS » Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:23 pm

Redodante wrote: when you argue with formally educated adults, if you can't cite the source of your quote, as in, where and when it was said originally, so it can be checked, your quote can be dismissed as false. you're unable to cite the source because the quote is fake, period. Especially when the only place one can find the quote is on virulently anti israeli websites, and even more so, when the same quote is attributed to other leaders, aside from Ben Gurion. Yes the quote exists, it exists on anti israel websites and blogs, on Hamas/Hezbollah sympathetic websites, etc. it's a fake quote, you're not posting on a conspiracy blog where everyone will buy whatever quote you throw out there to prove your point.


Another red herring, you're running out of seafood in a hurry, LOL!
What part of my reply you didn't understand? Here's again, read it again, slowly:

Josh wrote: Fake? I can tell you beyond any doubt, that that statement exists, I don't even need to quote any textual source, Why ? Simple, I'll quote you a REAL source, FACTS. They have been DOING IT and a ARE DOING IT, each and every word in that statement, who you are trying to deceive, you don't even know what the terrorist and apartheid state of Israel is really about, I can tell you what they are about, all of that in that quote. THEY ARE DOING IT.


I'll say again, so you don't miss it (but you will anyway):

"...we have taken their country, we must ensure that they never return...we'll use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." David Ben Gurion

The Zionists HAVE TAKEN their country, they ARE ensuring Palestinians NEVER RETURN, they HAVE BEEN and ARE using TERROR, ASSASSINATION, INTIMIDATION, LAND CONSFISCATION, CUTTING ALL SOCIAL SERVICES to get rid of them. And they ARE STILL D-O-I-N-G IT. (see videos posted)

That's compelling, factual evidence to me and the world.

Europe provides millions of euros in humanitarian aid to Palestinians harmed by Israel's settlement policies. These same policies have hindered aid efforts: the Israeli military has destroyed European-funded projects, and imposes planning restrictions that have reduced European donors to assisting Palestinians rendered homeless. By preventing Palestinian farmers from reaching their land for most of the year, Israel is reducing many of them to poverty. Israel should immediately charge or release people jailed without charge or trial under so-called administrative detention.

Israel acts with impunity when it comes to its continual violation of the most basic norms of conduct that is expected of sane states. From its inception, the state of Israel has committed grave human rights violations and war crimes, most notably the ethnic cleansing of close 800,000 Palestinians from their homes. Its list of violations includes, yet is not limited to: unlawful killings, torture and ill treatment, wanton destruction of homes while residents are still inside, blocking of ambulances, denial of humanitarian assistance, and the use of Palestinian civilians as human shields.
In its war on Lebanon in 2006, the Israeli Air Force fired close to 4 million cluster bombs over Southern Lebanon, the most dense use of cluster bombs in human history. Disregard of international law and norm of conduct in war was once again highlighted in the recent war on Gaza. From its use of White Phosphorus in civilian areas, indiscriminate shelling of the starved, open-air prison of Gaza to its censorship of the world media from witnessing the destruction wrought on the people of Gaza.
The inhumane conduct by the Israeli "Defense" Forces is best exemplified perhaps in the destroyed, tiny neighborhood of Zaytun. When International Red Cross personnel were allowed into the neighborhood, having been denied access by Israel for four days, they witnessed the sight of infant babies clinging to the corpses of their mothers.
The siege of Israel on Gaza, is largely unseen by the outside world because of Jerusalem’s refusal to allow humanitarian aid workers, reporters and photographers access to Gaza, rivals the most egregious crimes carried out at the height of apartheid by the South African regime. It comes close to the horrors visited on Sarajevo by the Bosnian Serbs.

Richard N. Veits, the former U.S. ambassador to Jordan who led a delegation from the U.S. Council for the National Interest Foundation to Gaza to meet Hamas leaders this past summer said once when referring to the Israel's Gaza siege:

“This is a stain on what is left of Israeli morality,” “I am almost breathless discussing this subject. It is so myopic. Washington, of course, is a handmaiden to all this. The Israeli manipulation of a population in this manner is comparable to some of the crimes that took place against civilian populations fifty years ago.”
Former Princeton University law professor Richard Falk, a U.N. special reporter for human rights in the occupied Palestinian territory, calls what Israel is doing to the 1.5 million Palestinians in Gaza “a crime against humanity.”

Richard Falk, is Jewish BTW, and he has condemned the collective punishment of the Palestinians in Gaza as “a flagrant and massive violation of international humanitarian law as laid down in Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.” He has asked for “the International Criminal Court to investigate the situation, and determine whether the Israeli civilian leaders and military commanders responsible for the Gaza siege should be indicted and prosecuted for violations of international criminal law.”

Falk, who also condemns the rocket attacks by the militant group Hamas, which he points out are also criminal violations of international law, goes on to say
“such Palestinian behavior does not legalize Israel’s imposition of a collective punishment of a life- and health-threatening character on the people of Gaza, and should not distract the U.N. or international society from discharging their fundamental moral and legal duty to render protection to the Palestinian people.”

Falk also adds:
“It is an unfolding humanitarian catastrophe that each day poses the entire 1.5 million Gazans to an unspeakable ordeal, to a struggle to survive in terms of their health,” and “This is an increasingly precarious condition. A recent study reports that 46 percent of all Gazan children suffer from acute anemia. There are reports that the sonic booms associated with Israeli overflights have caused widespread deafness, especially among children. Gazan children need thousands of hearing aids. Malnutrition is extremely high in a number of different dimensions and affects 75 percent of Gazans. There are widespread mental disorders, especially among young people without the will to live. Over 50 percent of Gazan children under the age of 12 have been found to have no will to live.”

Falk, also comments: “It is macabre, I don’t know of anything that exactly fits this situation. People have been referring to the Warsaw ghetto as the nearest analog in modern times.”
He even goes on to say:
“There is no structure of an occupation that endured for decades and involved this kind of oppressive circumstances. The magnitude, the deliberateness, the violations of international humanitarian law, the impact on the health, lives and survival and the overall conditions warrant the characterization of a crime against humanity. This occupation is the direct intention by the Israeli military and civilian authorities. They are responsible and should be held accountable.”

Falk even adds:
“This is a crime of survival,” Falk said of the rocket attacks. “Israel has put the Gazans in a set of circumstances where they either have to accept whatever is imposed on them or resist in any way available to them. That is a horrible dilemma to impose upon a people. This does not alleviate the Palestinians, and Gazans in particular, for accountability for doing these acts involving rocket fire, but it also imposes some responsibility on Israel for creating these circumstances.”

“Israel, all along, has not been prepared to enter into diplomatic process that gives the Palestinians a viable state. They [the Israelis] feel time is on their side. They feel they can create enough facts on the ground so people will come to the conclusion a viable state cannot emerge.”

FYI, Gazans have no access to power, they spend 12 hours a day without power, which can be a death sentence to the severely ill in hospitals. There are few drugs and little medicine, including no cancer or cystic fibrosis medication. Hospitals have generators but often lack fuel. Medical equipment, including one of Gaza’s three CT scanners, has been destroyed by power surges and fluctuations. Medical staff cannot control the temperature of incubators for newborns. And Israel has revoked most exit visas, meaning some of those who need specialized care, including cancer patients and those in need of kidney dialysis, have died. Of the 230 Gazans estimated to have died last year because they were denied proper medical care, several spent their final hours at Israeli crossing points where they were refused entry into Israel. The statistics gathered on children—half of Gaza’s population is under the age of 17, are increasingly grim. About 45 percent of children in Gaza have iron deficiency from a lack of fruit and vegetables, and 18 percent have stunted growth.

The use of terror and hunger to break a hostile population is one of the oldest forms of warfare. Those who orchestrate such sieges do not grasp the terrible rage born of long humiliation, indiscriminate violence and abuse. A father or a mother whose child dies because of a lack of medicines or proper medical care does not forget. A boy whose ill grandmother dies while detained at an Israel checkpoint does not forget. All who endure humiliation, abuse and the murder of family members do not forget. This rage becomes a virus within those who, eventually, stumble out into the daylight. Is it any wonder that 71 percent of children interviewed at a school in Gaza recently said they wanted to be a “martyr”?

The Israelis in Gaza, like US forces in Iraq, Afghanistan and other countries in Eurasia under US occupation for the sake of imperialism, are foolishly breeding the next generation of militants and Islamic radicals. Jihadists, enraged by the injustices done by Israel and the United States, seek to carry out reciprocal acts of savagery, even at the cost of their own lives. The violence unleashed on Palestinian children will, one day, be the violence unleashed on Israeli children. Sad.

This all is a flagrant violation of human rights and a crime against humanity. It's obvious that Israel's objective is to break the will of the Palestinians to resist. The Israeli government has demonstrated little interest in diplomacy or a peaceful solution. The rapid expansion of Jewish settlements on the West Bank is an effort to thwart the possibility of a two state solution by occupying and usurping vast tracts of Palestinian real estate.

Redodante wrote: flurries of youtube clips are, well, youtube clips, especially when most of them are from Al Jazeera and RT. The man who warns us about media conglomerates trusts a media outlet that is state owned, owned by a state that is a major purchaser of oil from Iran. But I forgot, you don't kill the messenger...unless the messenger is saying something contrary to what you believe in


Of course, it's convenient to refuse and deny the content and images in those videos, you are afraid of what truth will do to you. You mean to tell me, Israel crimes against humanity are fake and not truth?

Using white phosphorous on Palestinians
http://www.hrw.org/en/video/2009/03/25/ ... horus-gaza

Palestine: Displacement Oppression and Genocide
http://youtu.be/SPvbpkJ_stU

Geralf Kaufmann, A British Jewish MP, Denounces Israeli Atrocities in Palestine
http://youtu.be/E3-27vfLDBc

Israeli Soldiers Break Bones Of Palestinian Youths
http://youtu.be/Zn4mS5wGx10

Rachel Corrie - Interview
Footage from Rachel's interview conducted by Middle East Broadcasting Company on March 14th, 2003, two days before she was murdered (crushed) by an Israeli bulldozer rolling on to crush a Palestinian home.
http://youtu.be/O3JI-axaRF4

But of course, you won't look at the images.... ignorance is bliss. Prove to me all those images in the videos, and all the crimes against the Palestinians, acknowledged by international community and even decent high profile Jews are fake....I'm waiting.
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Re: Riot deaths in Peru

Postby renodante » Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:15 pm

I'll say again, so you don't miss it (but you will anyway):

"...we have taken their country, we must ensure that they never return...we'll use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." David Ben Gurion


repeating a quote is not citing a source. i'm not even going to read the rest of what you wrote, because your combination of arrogance and ignorance is just too much and you have no credibility. if you had the source you'd provide it. you don't have it, so you resort to throwing all the toys out of the box and peeing all over them like an infant.

Another red herring, you're running out of seafood in a hurry, LOL!


telling you to cite your source is not a "red herring" shore up on your logical fallacies, especially on the ability to recognize when one has been committed, also look up what "citation" means. again, you're talking to adults who are formally educated. check out a logical fallacy primer or something. then again, never mind, it's fun watching you put your foot in your mouth over and over again.

citing a source means you tell me where, and when he said it, not put his name next to it.

"i want everyone on expatperu to be destroyed, i shall not stop until all of them cower in the face of my wrath, i shall drink the blood of their first-born and rain fire down upon their abodes" -JoshuS


See how easy that was? I'm done with you man.
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Re: Riot deaths in Peru

Postby JoshuS » Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:35 pm

You have proven nothing, even your imaginary definition of Israel as a model state, example of democracy was demonstrated false. It's been shown, over and over again it is just that, Zionist propaganda. I wanted to see how far you can get in your cynicism, your got very FAR, so much you can't even acknowledge facts,actual footage and acknowledgments thrown in your face - proof that Israel is terrorist, criminal and apartheid state on stolen land. I made my case.
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Re: Riot deaths in Peru

Postby rama0929 » Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:04 pm

JoshuS wrote:You have proven nothing,


All you've proven is that you spend a lot of time watching youtube. :P
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Re: Riot deaths in Peru

Postby renodante » Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:30 pm

rama0929 wrote:
JoshuS wrote:You have proven nothing,


All you've proven is that you spend a lot of time watching youtube. :P


and:

Mainstream Media=bad
Russia Today, Kremlin owned state-run media=good

Protocols of the Elders of Zion, probably real, but even if fake, it's ok, because dem Jews control everything and Zionists are Nazis.

That one can "accurately" state Israel has become Nazi Germany

And that one does not have to provide a source for a quote, instead one can show clips of troops divorced from context, from sources like Russia Today, Al Jazeera, Joe Schmoe's Youtube Conspiracy Channel, and Human Rights Watch and say "see, he said it, because them Zionists be EVIL." One would think posting the source would be less work than paragraphs of text and gobs of youtube links that don't give the source of the quote, but I guess that's just me.

About HRW (from a source that is not unbiased for the record): "Reconstructions of the horrific death of civilians replete with painstakingly gathered evidence are coupled with bewildering omissions of context and blended into a package that assumes an inherent Israeli immorality," and "efforts to turn criticism of individual officers and soldiers into a wholesale indictment of Israel’s military establishment and the decision to resort to military force."
http://www.jta.org/news/article-print/2 ... height=500

in the spirit of plastering Youtube videos, let's learn how to think critically, shall we?

http://youtu.be/bSF2q-2BpNg
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Re: Riot deaths in Peru

Postby rama0929 » Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:48 pm

renodante wrote:in the spirit of plastering Youtube videos, let's learn how to think critically, shall we?

http://youtu.be/bSF2q-2BpNg


You're looking for critical thought from one who apparently never has had an original thought?

You must be new here :twisted:

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