Why is it that peruvians don't want to talk about classism?

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DC_20833
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Re: Why is it that peruvians don't want to talk about classism?

Postby DC_20833 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:27 pm

falconagain wrote:
kpw wrote:How do you define "classism"?
The main problem is not the classism but the culture of corruption. People are obliged to involve themselves
in shady business in order to get ahead. It is not the survival of the fittest but the most corrupt. By allowing
the country to continue in the current path is a recipe for disaster. The corrupt have no responsibilities and
does not care for any consequences.
The fact that Peru has become the number one cocaine producer is proof of this situation.


People always have to engage in corruption to get ahead, in the US, Europe, and yes Peru.


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Re: Why is it that peruvians don't want to talk about classism?

Postby Cubguy1972 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:33 am

They don't want to talk about classism because they don't want to be challenged. Peruvians, even if they are poor, want to feel superior if they have a European complexion. They may not be the brightest, but they can't believe or accept that a person of modest means or darker than them can be smarter, richer, or more successful than them.

They have low self confidence and somehow think that people care what they look like. Nobody cares....really!

They like to have maids and helpers that they can push around to feel better.
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Re: Why is it that peruvians don't want to talk about classism?

Postby Alan » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:06 pm

Cubguy1972 wrote:They don't want to talk about classism because they don't want to be challenged. Peruvians, even if they are poor, want to feel superior if they have a European complexion. They may not be the brightest, but they can't believe or accept that a person of modest means or darker than them can be smarter, richer, or more successful than them.

They have low self confidence and somehow think that people care what they look like. Nobody cares....really!

They like to have maids and helpers that they can push around to feel better.


Wow... that's a pretty harsh and unfair generalization. Who is pushing who around to feel a little better? :)
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Re: Why is it that peruvians don't want to talk about classism?

Postby Cubguy1972 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:43 am

Ask people who are Peruvian, who live in Peru... get both sides of the story like any intelligent individual would. Listen to the pitucos and then listen to the non-pitucos.

It's funny that in China, Japan, or India the more authentic you look...they don't hold that against you. In Peru, if you look indigenous or from the mountains, they try to belittle you????

C'mon ....you're in Peru. You should look Peruvian, right??

Should you look Black in China? Or should you look white in Morocco to fit in and not be made fun of or talked to in a demeaning manner??? Nope.

But in Peru, you should be white or European looking to show how much better you think you are.... doesn't make sense, does it?

That's classism for all the Americans and Canadians who ever wondered about this.
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Re: Why is it that peruvians don't want to talk about classism?

Postby windsportinperu » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:10 pm

Cubguy1972

You didn't understand the Alan's comments. Your assertion is a wrong generalization that goes further from reality. Some few pitucos could fit into your rant, but the vast majority of them are not even remotely close to what you say
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Re: Why is it that peruvians don't want to talk about classism?

Postby Cubguy1972 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:24 am

https://expat-chronicles.com/2015/09/10 ... -classism/

Read the part from Vargas Llosa....from El Comercio.

The point is "why people in Peru dont want to talk about classism".

It doesn't exist, right?? Just like racism doesn't exist against African-Americans in the US. It can't possibly exist in the US in 2019. That, my friend, is called denial.... just like classism doesn't exist in Peru. The people are just "acomplejados"....crazy, ignorant, it's in their imagination
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Re: Why is it that peruvians don't want to talk about classism?

Postby windsportinperu » Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:57 am

Most of the thing Vargas Llosa says are so old, back to the 50's, 70's or 80's . He does not know the daily lifestyle of a Peruvian worker, a nurse, an small entrepreneur, a farmer etc... He not even lives in Peru. You seen to be lost in preconceive ideas of the past, too.

Vargas Llosa is a good writer, but he lives in an imaginary World, and is good for creating wonderful Novel and fiction, but when it comes to get real information from a real World. then it is all limited to his small experience of living in Peru. He know more about the Royalty of Spain and the aristocratic lifestyle of living in Europe

The real World where most of us lives, is totally different. Things has changed for better
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Re: Why is it that peruvians don't want to talk about classism?

Postby Cubguy1972 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:38 pm

https://www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias-amer ... a-38157110

Tell me which author, psychologist, study, or perspective you want me to provide you. I can provide you complaints to Peruvian government, studies performed, anecdotal evidence, objective studies and surveys, in English or Spanish.

It is evident why nobody wants to talk about rasism/classism in Peru. It shows how weak certain groups of individuals are because it puts a spotlight on their lack of self-confidence, self-esteem, etc ..

It's much easier to say it doesn't exist...less pain and embarrassment for the perpetrators.
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Re: Why is it that peruvians don't want to talk about classism?

Postby windsportinperu » Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:42 am

Here you have a report about Racism in USA, Does this demonstrate the wrong hypothesis that Racism is prevalent in USA ? Of course not.

https://www.benjerry.com/home/whats-new ... sm-is-real

In Cajamarca you might see thousands of Peruvians with a lighter skin than in Puno. According to your wrong assestment they all should be classist or racist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GECiCNVRg4
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Re: Why is it that peruvians don't want to talk about classism?

Postby Cubguy1972 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:49 am

A hillbilly from Alabama can barely speak and is basically white trash, no class or classism there. Similarly, a Pollack who is doing immigrant work has no voice but he/she is extremely white skinned (they have no attitude and dont feel entitled...if they do, they get put in their place). Similarly, a fare-skinned person from Cajamarca may not have a name that a perpetrator pituco may have. The poor person in Cajamarca may be fare-skinned, but cant speak spanish or English. Those people with green eyes may have been raped in the past, just like a lighter skinned black person with hazel, grey, or green eyes.

See, a "white as in pituco white, I think I have money and a name" person in Peru may think they are above the law, but in the US they are just another person....nothing special....no special privelege.

If a pituco pushes a normal person in the US, they'll get the crap beaten out of them. Slap a cop and you will get shot...insult somebody, you will get insulted back and if you insult the wrong people, you will get punched in the face.. . If you attack back, more will make sure to beat you up and put you in your place.

Is there racism is the US??? YESSSSS.....SIIIII.....YESSSSSSS.....SIIIIII.

You think blacks will get hired for jobs? Only the very few that qualify... you are a product of your environment
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Re: Why is it that peruvians don't want to talk about classism?

Postby windsportinperu » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:02 am

People from Cajamarca has fair-skinned because they were raped ? . They don' t speak spanish ?

Do you want to blame all Americans of Racism ?

People from Polland have no voice in USA ?

It is not necessary to be a psychologist to determine that you live in a terrible fearful World.

For now, you are a good candidate to win the trophy ""non-sense conversation 2019"" ! :D
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Re: Why is it that peruvians don't want to talk about classism?

Postby Cubguy1972 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:16 pm

The people you tried to refer to "that are in cajamarca and fair skinned with blue eyes" are the cholitas that speak broken spanish, but speak quechua very well

Go back to the year 1300 , you think there were people with fair skin, blonde hair, and blue eyes in Peru? I. In the 1500s, the Spanish/Europeans came (with no women)...they were men, warriors, high testosterone. Unless they were homosexual, they robbed, raped, and pillaged. Just the same as every other Army and country in the world....nothing new.

Now, the cholitas with dirty blonde hair, and some with green / blue eyes ....walking around Cajamarca with their polleras and no shoes. You think they are Irish, English nobility, or their ancestors more-than-likely raped???

Same with light-skinned African-American women in the US. You think there are light skinned African women in central Africa??? Where the slaves came from???? Nooooo..... So, how are there black women that are light skinned? Their ancestors were more-than-likely raped....that's how they became lighter skin. The plantation owners would rape the women...a known fact.

People from Poland (immigrants, 1st generation) are exploited and there voice is unheard. Yes, you must not be an expat(i.e. American) because you would know this. It seems like you are of Peruvian descent and are wearing the rose-colored glasses. Good for you, but please do not live in denial.
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Re: Why is it that peruvians don't want to talk about classism?

Postby windsportinperu » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:25 pm

More non-sense words !

I do not know where you obtain your data, probably from the depths of your chaotic imagination. Now I understand why you like Mario Vargas Llosa (writer of Novels) as true evidence, instead of a serious investigator

The Spaniards use to marriage with indigenous wife since the beginning of the first years of the VIceroyalty of Peru . There was some rapists, but nothing compare to the magnitude that comes from your dirty imagination

Carmen Martín Rubio is a serious historian and She clearly define in her tedious investigation that most of the marital relations between this 2 races was the result of consensus marriage

There is even painting of that past time representing this kind of marriage , specially when the Spaniard belonged to the high hierarchy and she belonged to the Royalty Inca. It has nothing to do with your paranoia about massive rapists your seen to like to talk to,

https://www.abc.es/cultura/20140216/abc ... 52100.html

Image
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Re: Why is it that peruvians don't want to talk about classism?

Postby Cubguy1972 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:53 pm

Oh, then these people must be royalty...hierarchy!!! I will keep that in mind when I see all the cholitas in their polleras, with blue green eyes, speaking quechua.

They are not Irish nor English...they are Spanish Royalty.. Hierarchy!!!


The light skinned black people in the USA are also rich land owners!!! Married to former plantation owners....ok, I get it.
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Re: Why is it that peruvians don't want to talk about classism?

Postby Wiracocha » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:26 pm

Having read most of the posts on this touchy subject, I must put my 2 bob's worth in and say that there are so many spelling mistakes and incorrect grammar, that is makes me wonder where some of the posters gained their education.No names,no shame. :roll: American English, or just learners(who may be forgiven)
Mmmm...classism of education....I plead guilty sir !! :)
W
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Re: Why is it that peruvians don't want to talk about classism?

Postby windsportinperu » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:42 pm

You hurry up to answer without reading the information given in the link above. You might put your wild imagination to rest for a while, and begin to read a little more.

Not only the high hierarchy use to marriage, but also the lower and mid range of Spaniards (social status). Of course they do not have painting. Those farmers you describe so contemptuously are their descendants. People from all the corners of Peru are the descendant of these marriages (in different degrees of miscegenation) + the later immigration from all the corners of the Globe.

In 1514 The king of Spain declares by law that there must exist consensus marriage

They were not only searching for Gold, but also the Christianization of the Incas and the Aztecas, through marriage .

Since the beginning of the Vice royalty the King and Queen of Spain were promoting marriage

Lima was founded in 1535, so promoting Christianity was even before the foundation of Lima !

You need to learn History through information, not wild dirty imagination

https://www.elmundo.es/la-aventura-de-l ... b4587.html
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Re: Why is it that peruvians don't want to talk about classism?

Postby Cubguy1972 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:05 pm

Seems like you need to think and not believe everything you read. Don't be a sheep and just follow what they tell you.

The Spanish had their motives...and their "means-to-an-end" was Christianity.

As for typos, it's called AI and voice typing....a smart phone.
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Re: Why is it that peruvians don't want to talk about classism?

Postby Cubguy1972 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:09 pm

Let me correct your grammar...so easy, it is like correcting a 3rd grader. See bold font.

You wrote:

Having read most of the posts on this touchy subject, I must put my 2 bob's worth in and say that there are so many spelling mistakes and incorrect grammar, that is makes me wonder where some of the posters gained their education.No names,no shame. :roll: American English, or just learners(who may be forgiven)
Mmmm...classism of education....I plead guilty sir !! :)
W
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Re: Why is it that peruvians don't want to talk about classism?

Postby windsportinperu » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:13 pm

If you want to run away from the evidence, it is your choice

Moral: do not imagine how History was, just read it
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Re: Why is it that peruvians don't want to talk about classism?

Postby Cubguy1972 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:06 pm

Do some reading, you just might learn something... you might have to pay, but knowledge is power.


https://www.jstor.org/stable/3339226?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents


JOURNAL ARTICLE
Silent Racism and Intellectual Superiority in Peru
Marisol de la Cadena
Bulletin of Latin American Research
Vol. 17, No. 2 (May, 1998), pp. 143-164
Published by: Wiley on behalf of Society for Latin American Studies (SLAS)
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3339226
Page Count: 22
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Re: Why is it that peruvians don't want to talk about classism?

Postby Alan » Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:05 pm

Cubguy1972 wrote:Do some reading, you just might learn something... you might have to pay, but knowledge is power.


https://www.jstor.org/stable/3339226?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents


JOURNAL ARTICLE
Silent Racism and Intellectual Superiority in Peru


A discussion about something as sensitive and subjective as classism is worth being approached without the use of stereotypes and generalizations, or by smacking each other over the head with textbooks, or worse still, 20 year old journal articles we need to pay for.

So, how about we get back to the question “Why is it that Peruvians don't want to talk about classism?” Well, for starters, I think it is a misleading question. In fact, you can easily find Peruvians who will talk to you about classism when you engage them without rencor or judgement. Ask them and you will hear all kinds of different and sometimes conflicting views and opinions, and they will all be naturally subjective to their experience. But the one view that most of them agree upon is that social change is happening very quickly, with or without the discussion. The reality today is very, very different than it was a few decades ago.

Open your eyes and you will see that Peru is full of millions of people who are pushing and breaking the boundaries of classism a million different ways. Through personal action, through education, through position in their workplace. This country is changing, and fast, including views on class and race - not to mention views on religion, gender, politics, corruption, and how to run an economy. Many of these changes to the traditional power structure that supported classism was (and still is) driven by the shift of millions of people from rural areas into the cities over the past 40 years, and the subsequent birth of their second and third and fourth generations. "Lima is Peru” and you can find a reflection from every corner of the country in the eyes and the faces of its citizens.

Talks about class aren’t part of the narrative, not because people "don't" talk about it, but that it is becoming a moot point. People are busy building businesses, trying to find work, finding work, accumulating assets, and educating their children. Look around you, education is booming, races are mixing through marriage, racist attitudes are now publicly rejected in the sphere of media and government, and classist pretentions are increasingly seen as irrelevant and shallow.

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