Dealing with tardiness

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sbaustin
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Dealing with tardiness

Postby sbaustin » Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:19 pm

I'm curious about the expats that work for (or own) other companies. What if anything does your company do with respect to employees habitually arriving late? Are there consequences? Have you ever seen someone fired for arriving late too many times and the like?


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Re: Dealing with tardiness

Postby Lloyd007 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:28 pm

The Peruvian culture here has a tremendous level or tolerance for this kind of stuff. If you fire the people that are always late, you'll be left with nobody.
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Re: Dealing with tardiness

Postby SmartKitty » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:41 pm

Lloyd007 wrote:The Peruvian culture here has a tremendous level or tolerance for this kind of stuff. If you fire the people that are always late, you'll be left with nobody.

In my experience, and I had several workers, for work they are not late and I was firing few irresponsible people. The problem is sometimes you fire somebody who is very vindictive, I had one secretary who after being fired started to call my house threatening my kids with killing and kidnapping.

The worse thing working with Peruvian workers is not so much being late, it's the stealing, specially if you are a service company, they steal spare parts, materials, tools, so you need to have 1 inventory manager responsible for everyday tools and material and 1 secretary or administrator who will check on inventory manager, so he doesn't steal.
My name is Fortunata Carhuapoma, pies de plomo. I'm a modest serrano girl in polleras and alpargatas.
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Re: Dealing with tardiness

Postby Lloyd007 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:47 pm

SmartKitty,

That is also a very good point!
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Re: Dealing with tardiness

Postby FROADS » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:54 pm

the infamous 'hora peruana' haha...yeah, when someone tells u they'll be there in 10 minutes, they actually mean two hours.
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Re: Dealing with tardiness

Postby FROADS » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:58 pm

A way to deal with it is by being serious with the person about the nature of appointment. Like the forum poster above mentioned, if you happen to own a business or hold some type of authority in a workplace, the best way to deal with the coworker is by distancing yourself in a manner that's only related solely on professionalism and not on camaraderie.
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Re: Dealing with tardiness

Postby ariel » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:26 pm

Other ways of dealing with tardiness:

1. Implement a flexible 8-hr work sched but don't let them come in later than say, 9am.

2. Use a 3-strike rule (but good luck with that). Where I used to work they didn't give overtime pay to tardy employees. Just be steadfast and let them know you're serious about it.

3. Cold shoulder treatment

4. Reward punctual employees with on-time salaries. :)

5. Penalize the tardy ones with late checks. :(

6...
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Re: Dealing with tardiness

Postby sbaustin » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:46 pm

So nobody has actually written up or seen someone written up for a violation such as being late three times in a week and sent that to the ministerio de trabajo?

I've implemented a few policies in my office that has dealt with most of the large offenders but there are still some stragglers. What I've not done is written anyone to the ministerio yet for violating the policies.

Having people leave early on Friday if they weren't late has helped for sure.
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Re: Dealing with tardiness

Postby simperu2012 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:01 pm

Arriving late in Peru is part of the culture. I've been on a few jobs here in Lima that allowed tardniess as long as there was a reasonable excuse. (Insert reason here). The best way to encourage or enforce punctuality is to reward it. Rewards outweigh punishment. Have a monthly attendance award with a bonus of s/100, and everyone will arrive on time, early even.
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Re: Dealing with tardiness

Postby chi chi » Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:25 pm

SmartKitty wrote:The worse thing working with Peruvian workers is not so much being late, it's the stealing.


Not only in Peru. I worked in hotels and restaurant in Europe and the US.

If a customers at a bar pays cash then often all the money goes into the bartenders pocket. Cutlery, glasses, kitchen equipment, knives, wine, food,...gets stolen a lot. The don't only steal from the hotel or restaurant but also from the customers. Room attendants that through customer luggage are far too common.
And if you think that those safes in your room are a good place to put your stuff. All room attendants know how to overide the safety features.

Hiding your money in a dirty sock, cover it with your underwear in your suitcase, under the trashcan, above the false ceiling, in the doublé bottom of your suitcase, behind or under the wardrobe, inside the legs of your folded up trousers aren't options either because that are the FIRST places where roommaids are going to look. Because that's were most guests hide valuables and money.

And it's only in the small places. The places were the staff steals the most are the luxury 4 and 5 star hotels. Coincidentally, the are also the ones that pay the lowest wages to their staff.
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Re: Dealing with tardiness

Postby sbaustin » Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:51 pm

I've never had an issue of stealing in my office, so that isn't really a concern of mine. Well, unless you consider time an asset, then yes, I've had people show up late, and not work their full hours.
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Re: Dealing with tardiness

Postby caliguy » Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:55 pm

simperu2012 wrote:Arriving late in Peru is part of the culture. I've been on a few jobs here in Lima that allowed tardniess as long as there was a reasonable excuse. (Insert reason here). The best way to encourage or enforce punctuality is to reward it. Rewards outweigh punishment. Have a monthly attendance award with a bonus of s/100, and everyone will arrive on time, early even.

This has got to be the best way of treating tardiness that I've heard! Excellent suggestion Simperu2012 :D
I dont have employees, but I do have appointments to meet with clients at my office. When they call and say they will be there at 10 a.m., I just take it with a grain of salt and expect them to be there at noon or later. The ones that show up within the hour get free coffee and pastries!
every place has it's own spirit. you just need to tune into it.
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Re: Dealing with tardiness

Postby sbaustin » Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:27 pm

simperu2012 wrote:Arriving late in Peru is part of the culture. I've been on a few jobs here in Lima that allowed tardniess as long as there was a reasonable excuse. (Insert reason here). The best way to encourage or enforce punctuality is to reward it. Rewards outweigh punishment. Have a monthly attendance award with a bonus of s/100, and everyone will arrive on time, early even.


The problem with this is that 99% of the time there is no reasonable excuse. I had one person say that they were late because they left their laptop in the taxi and spent the entire morning looking for the taxi as if I was going to believe that. I finally got fed up and said, "Tus excusos me sacan de quicio".

My original post is not really about someone that is late every once in a while which doesn't bother me at all but about people being habitually late and personally I don't really think rewarding people for arriving on time is the best option considering they are supposed to do this as a general part of their job. I know for a fact if I gave a bonus the people that are habitually late will continue being late unless they are fired (which is happening to someone tomorrow) or written up in some official way.
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Re: Dealing with tardiness

Postby simperu2012 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:47 pm

Some people respond better to punishment than reward. Plus, someone who is habitually late shouldn't be working for your organization.

By the way, what type of company do you run?
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Re: Dealing with tardiness

Postby sbaustin » Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:01 pm

Informatica most everyone has a bachiller and/or is titulado.
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Re: Dealing with tardiness

Postby fanning » Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:17 pm

You can give them a memorandum with Falta Grave ( 3 tardanzas in a month). If you have accumulated 3 of these, then you can fire the the employee. I think technically that is not completely correct, but what we always have done in case we had to fire an employee, was to offer him 2 choices.
1. We send the Memorandums to the ministerio de trabajo, which will be problematic for the worker in future jobs and/or make a denuncia policial, which will definitely give them problems for their police record.
2. He signs a voluntary resign form, gets paid all his liquidacion, a Constancia de Trabajo, etc.
Until now EVERY employee that needed to be laid off has signed the voluntary resignation.
The employee will only not sign if he really feels he was correct, but if an employee has to be fired, it is not because I stopped liking the color of his hair, but because something in the work is not working out.
I think a bonificacion for arriving on time is not a bad idea.
Also I have seen in some other companies that latecomers are fined, like S/. 0.50 after the first ten minutes per minute extra. But you need to write that in your Manual Interno de Trabajo as a clausula.
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Re: Dealing with tardiness

Postby Hitoruna » Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:46 pm

I am curious

How late are we talking about? 10 minutes? half an hour? two hours? someone mentioned half a day?
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Re: Dealing with tardiness

Postby SmartKitty » Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:29 pm

chi chi wrote:Not only in Peru. I worked in hotels and restaurant in Europe and the US.

If a customers at a bar pays cash then often all the money goes into the bartenders pocket. Cutlery, glasses, kitchen equipment, knives, wine, food,...gets stolen a lot. The don't only steal from the hotel or restaurant but also from the customers. Room attendants that through customer luggage are far too common.
And if you think that those safes in your room are a good place to put your stuff. All room attendants know how to overide the safety features.

Hiding your money in a dirty sock, cover it with your underwear in your suitcase, under the trashcan, above the false ceiling, in the doublé bottom of your suitcase, behind or under the wardrobe, inside the legs of your folded up trousers aren't options either because that are the FIRST places where roommaids are going to look. Because that's were most guests hide valuables and money.

And it's only in the small places. The places were the staff steals the most are the luxury 4 and 5 star hotels. Coincidentally, the are also the ones that pay the lowest wages to their staff.

What places do you go in Europe? Have CC, insurance and go to the decent hotels, for God sake.
For Chi chi the worst place is Europe, just don't go there, it's much worse than La Parada. :lol:
My name is Fortunata Carhuapoma, pies de plomo. I'm a modest serrano girl in polleras and alpargatas.
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Re: Dealing with tardiness

Postby SmartKitty » Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:38 pm

sbaustin wrote:I've never had an issue of stealing in my office, so that isn't really a concern of mine. Well, unless you consider time an asset, then yes, I've had people show up late, and not work their full hours.

Office, not big deal. I had mechanics working, aeronautical spare parts, aviation materials and tools, everything like that is very expensive in Peru and many of these stuff are not available, I was importing. Just 1 special gasket could cost me from $500 to 15K and it's light, easy fit under t-shirt. Office supplies and small things it's a normal loss you write off, but not the expensive ones.
My name is Fortunata Carhuapoma, pies de plomo. I'm a modest serrano girl in polleras and alpargatas.
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Re: Dealing with tardiness

Postby sbaustin » Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:54 pm

Hitoruna wrote:I am curious

How late are we talking about? 10 minutes? half an hour? two hours? someone mentioned half a day?


I was referring to anyone that habitually comes late to the office whether 10 minutes or 4 hours.
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Re: Dealing with tardiness

Postby Hitoruna » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:04 pm

sbaustin wrote:
Hitoruna wrote:I am curious

How late are we talking about? 10 minutes? half an hour? two hours? someone mentioned half a day?


I was referring to anyone that habitually comes late to the office whether 10 minutes or 4 hours.


Well. 10 minutes and 4 hours is a completely different thing.

For example, the company I work with is situated in a very isolated location. There is only one railway line which usually is late. The other day they even cancel the train (I live in Japan where trains are usually on the clock). To add to that, the bus that carries the employees to the company sometimes gets late.

To be consistently on time I have to wake up 45 minutes earlier which reduces my productivity, and increases my stress, all due to the fault of others. If I were allowed to be late 10 minutes, whenever the darn train company gets late (how would I know when) My productivity would go up and my general satisfaction with the work too.

So for me 10 minutes is no big deal. Hey you can even be on the toilet with a heavy stomach!

4 hours on the other hand is just a lack of respect that would put anyone under my command in the street immediately
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Re: Dealing with tardiness

Postby chi chi » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:40 am

SmartKitty wrote:
chi chi wrote:Not only in Peru. I worked in hotels and restaurant in Europe and the US.

If a customers at a bar pays cash then often all the money goes into the bartenders pocket. Cutlery, glasses, kitchen equipment, knives, wine, food,...gets stolen a lot. The don't only steal from the hotel or restaurant but also from the customers. Room attendants that through customer luggage are far too common.
And if you think that those safes in your room are a good place to put your stuff. All room attendants know how to overide the safety features.

Hiding your money in a dirty sock, cover it with your underwear in your suitcase, under the trashcan, above the false ceiling, in the doublé bottom of your suitcase, behind or under the wardrobe, inside the legs of your folded up trousers aren't options either because that are the FIRST places where roommaids are going to look. Because that's were most guests hide valuables and money.

And it's only in the small places. The places were the staff steals the most are the luxury 4 and 5 star hotels. Coincidentally, the are also the ones that pay the lowest wages to their staff.


What places do you go in Europe? Have CC, insurance and go to the decent hotels, for God sake.
For Chi chi the worst place is Europe, just don't go there, it's much worse than La Parada. :lol:


Smartkitty, I am talking about the decent hotels. The staff steals a lot in those 4 and 5 star hotels. I worked in such hotels so I have seen a lot of my coleagues stealing stuff.
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Re: Dealing with tardiness

Postby sbaustin » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:43 am

Hitoruna wrote:Well. 10 minutes and 4 hours is a completely different thing.


10 minutes everyday is ~200 minutes a month. Those 200 minutes mean that other people have to work longer and can create a lot of discord in the office with people that arrive on time.
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Re: Dealing with tardiness

Postby Bobby » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:22 am

In IT business is tardiness really an issue? And what about the IT skills of your staff? Do you find in Peru good programmers? Are they good enough to compete with Indian's and Rumanians?

Just a 2 cent thought: are your manager skills adapted to the situation you describe? Maybe your mental model (i.e, that is your expectations on how your staff should behave, etc.) needs also a change to adapt to a Peruvian context?
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Re: Dealing with tardiness

Postby sbaustin » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:38 am

Bobby wrote:In IT business is tardiness really an issue? And what about the IT skills of your staff? Do you find in Peru good programmers? Are they good enough to compete with Indian's and Rumanians?

Just a 2 cent thought: are your manager skills adapted to the situation you describe? Maybe your mental model (i.e, that is your expectations on how your staff should behave, etc.) needs also a change to adapt to a Peruvian context?


Tardiness is a huge issue when having meetings and dealing with clients. For instance we have a 9am project meeting and when the main developer misses that, it causes delays and issues with the other people we are meeting many times in other remote offices. Lastly, people showing up late means that other people like the office manager have to stay late.

I've outsourced prior to opening an office here to Indian and Argentina but not Romania. I can generally attest that the majority of people here in Peru are on par with Argentina and India at least with the skill sets I'm dealing with, however the English level here is quite low compared to those other two countries at least with my experiences.

IT skills are completely separate and your job is a mix of things like skills, attitude, productivity, etc and being late everyday is not a very productive nor a professional attribute. Being late on projects isn't good, showing up late to the office isn't good, and forcing other people to work later isn't good either all because someone can't wake up 10-30 minutes earlier.

Good point, my mental model is definitely more USA centric than it is Peruvian centric, but in general and in most places even professional Peruvian jobs, I don't think habitual tardiness is looked at as a good thing.

On a completely separate note, my Peruvian wife is much more strict with tardiness than even I am.
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Re: Dealing with tardiness

Postby Josh2U » Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:18 pm

When dealing with employees I am concerned with only two thing is he producing or just taking up space. If he is producing I do not care if I ever see him. If he is not producing, can him. Computer programers are a dime a dozen.
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Re: Dealing with tardiness

Postby simperu2012 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:29 pm

You're exactly right and within your rights to demand punctuality within your company. There are some cultural customs that are respected across the world, and being on time is one of them. It's the same in Spain, India, Peru, and Alaska. Just like you said, tardiness leaves more work for other employees and shows disrespect. If someone can't understand that, they shouldn't be working for you.

Just my two cents.

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