Lots of well educated Peruvians..

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miaperu
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Lots of well educated Peruvians..

Postby miaperu » Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:43 pm

... but why is the country in such a mess. Lack of running water, unpaved roads, litter every where... and crime at every turn. It's not like this in poorer Asian countries... and neither are they Catholic.


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Re: Lots of well educated Peruvians..

Postby Hitoruna » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:25 am

I will give you four reasons:

  • The existence of the "criollo culture" and its paramount value the "viveza criolla". That thing kill us
  • Lack of a national sense. we are not one nation since a white peruvian doesnt feel like an indian and doesnt even recognize as his or hers our imperial past
  • too many educated in law and too few in engineering
  • that sense of shame of doing money. Being poor has become something to be proud of and being rich something to be ashamed.

good news is that number two and four are changing for the better. I dont know about the other two
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Re: Lots of well educated Peruvians..

Postby teamoperu » Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:20 am

Chile, with a British historical connection, seems to have worked things out better than Peru, with a more Spanish heritage?
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Re: Lots of well educated Peruvians..

Postby caliguy » Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:04 am

lack of water and poor highway conditions is not due to intellect, but how money is spent. there are some really bad streets all over Lima that need attention. there is also the problem with air pollution, which i believe really needs to be addressed. Money cannot reduce litter and crime here
every place has it's own spirit. you just need to tune into it.
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Re: Lots of well educated Peruvians..

Postby argidd » Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:41 pm

miaperu wrote:... but why is the country in such a mess. Lack of running water, unpaved roads, litter every where... and crime at every turn. It's not like this in poorer Asian countries... and neither are they Catholic.


Hi Mia, if you would have seen how the country was back in the early 90's, you would see why we are proud of how our country (including economy) has strided. You think what you see is a mess? Imagine having to make a line at the supermarket to buy toilet paper, bread or eggs, or having your kids do a bomb drill every so often at school. Yes, INSANE!!!!!
We have been hit many times by disastrous governments (and still are, considering some local governments or municipal governments), and there is a lot left to do.

I agree with Hitoruna, this idiotic división created between the various ethnic (racial) groups has only created more poverty, segregation, recentment and has taken us back instead of going forward.
Regards,

Argidd
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miaperu
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Re: Lots of well educated Peruvians..

Postby miaperu » Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:11 pm

argidd wrote:
miaperu wrote:... but why is the country in such a mess. Lack of running water, unpaved roads, litter every where... and crime at every turn. It's not like this in poorer Asian countries... and neither are they Catholic.


Hi Mia, if you would have seen how the country was back in the early 90's, you would see why we are proud of how our country (including economy) has strided. You think what you see is a mess? Imagine having to make a line at the supermarket to buy toilet paper, bread or eggs, or having your kids do a bomb drill every so often at school. Yes, INSANE!!!!!
We have been hit many times by disastrous governments (and still are, considering some local governments or municipal governments), and there is a lot left to do.

I agree with Hitoruna, this idiotic división created between the various ethnic (racial) groups has only created more poverty, segregation, recentment and has taken us back instead of going forward.

Yes I heard, it was due largely to Alan Garcia's mismanagement... and amazingly they re-elected him, putting in prion the only leader, Fujimori, who actually did something beneficially lasting.
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Re: Lots of well educated Peruvians..

Postby Bobby » Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:42 pm

miaperu wrote:
argidd wrote:
miaperu wrote: Fujimori, who actually did something beneficially lasting.

IMHO Fujimori is not really an example as he is imprisoned for crimes against humanity. Regarding economy he "opened" the economy not really as a visionary (the same did Chile, Brazil, Argentina in the 90s) but rather to make good buisness with his "friends".
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Re: Lots of well educated Peruvians..

Postby miaperu » Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:55 pm

Bobby wrote:
miaperu wrote:
argidd wrote:
miaperu wrote: Fujimori, who actually did something beneficially lasting.

IMHO Fujimori is not really an example as he is imprisoned for crimes against humanity. Regarding economy he "opened" the economy not really as a visionary (the same did Chile, Brazil, Argentina in the 90s) but rather to make good buisness with his "friends".

But he did leave a country free from terrorism,built better paved roads and a wealthier nation. The rest have changed nothing. The country looks more and more like a war zone. The country needs a heavy handed but efficient who will sort out the criminals and corrupt officials, mayors ect... and not be detered by human rights BS...
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Re: Lots of well educated Peruvians..

Postby richorozco » Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:06 am

Yes....it is sad but true. The Spanish blood screwed up everything and the Asian countries don't have much Spanish blood (other than the Phillipines). When you have a homogenous society, there is a sense of pride as in the Koreans, Japanese, etc.... In the US, it a melting pot but almost anybody can become a professional, save money, open a business, etc....and eventually be well-off. In the US, corruption exists but the services and infrastructure are present and there are many opportunities and assistance.

The corruption, viveza, separation of classes, etc... is all due to that. It is similar to the caste system in India.

Good thing is that Peruvians have made it out of Peru and some have been very productive members of society (i.e. engineers at jet Propulsion lab, NASA, etc.... and many professionals in the US and Europe).

The sales tax is 18% and the income tax is high ....yet the infrastructure sucks, the streets are dirty, no running water, etc....
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Re: Lots of well educated Peruvians..

Postby chi chi » Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:55 pm

caliguy wrote:lack of water and poor highway conditions is not due to intellect, but how money is spent. there are some really bad streets all over Lima that need attention. there is also the problem with air pollution, which i believe really needs to be addressed. Money cannot reduce litter and crime here


The highways to and from and around Tarapoto are in excellent condition and we never have a water shortage.
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Re: Lots of well educated Peruvians..

Postby ironchefchris » Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:37 pm

miaperu wrote:
Bobby wrote:
miaperu wrote:
argidd wrote:
miaperu wrote: Fujimori, who actually did something beneficially lasting.

IMHO Fujimori is not really an example as he is imprisoned for crimes against humanity. Regarding economy he "opened" the economy not really as a visionary (the same did Chile, Brazil, Argentina in the 90s) but rather to make good buisness with his "friends".

But he did leave a country free from terrorism,built better paved roads and a wealthier nation. The rest have changed nothing. The country looks more and more like a war zone. The country needs a heavy handed but efficient who will sort out the criminals and corrupt officials, mayors ect... and not be detered by human rights BS...


Could you please explain in more detail what you mean by "and not be detered (sic) by human rights BS..."
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Re: Lots of well educated Peruvians..

Postby gringito » Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:43 pm

Hitoruna wrote:The existence of the "criollo culture" and its paramount value the "viveza criolla". That thing kill us

YES! YES! YES!
Some Peruvians spend more time on cheeting than on doing things the legal way.
Moreover,
very few teach their children to be RESPONSIBLE.
If even the smallest possible unit of a nation, i.e. the individual person or a family, acts irresponsible, how can you expect that the entire nation acts better??

Hitoruna wrote:Lack of a national sense. we are not one nation since a white peruvian doesnt feel like an indian and doesnt even recognize as his or hers our imperial past

YES!!
This is also the reason why Chile screwed up Peru in the Guerra del Pacífico - and they surely could do it today for exactly the same reasons.

Hitoruna wrote:too many educated in law and too few in engineering

Mas o menos...
And even if you ARE educated in engineering..they do NOT care!
What counts are AMIGOS - and if you have the right contacts or the right TXXs, and nothing else

Hitoruna wrote:[*] that sense of shame of doing money. Being poor has become something to be proud of and being rich something to be ashamed.[/list]

NO!
Doing money is cool for most Peruvians..
However...it is laborious.
You have to make a lot of decisions and you have to be responsible, which is laborious as well. For these reasons many Peruvians cry for a strong leader that takes all these tedious tasks off their shoulders As a trade-off this leader is then entitled to enrich himself. This starts with the position of a mayor and does not end with...well we all know it from the newspapers...

Further reasons:
*Warm weather does not stimulate work. Why working too hard if you can live a happy life in a straw hut equiped with a TV?

*Peru could be one of the richest countries in the world because they HAVE practically everything!
But they need foreign companies to exploit their own resources...for the reasons mentioned above...
There is a peruvian saying: "A Peruvian is a poor person sitting on a mountain of gold".


PS:
Yes, sometimes I am sarcastic. But people living in Peru for some years may confirm that this sarcasm contains a lot of truth...
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Re: Lots of well educated Peruvians..

Postby vivaperusurf » Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:13 am

Gringito that last part of your post made me laugh:-) thx for that. Not really a laughing matter....
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Re: Lots of well educated Peruvians..

Postby SmartKitty » Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:44 am

gringito wrote:
Hitoruna wrote:The existence of the "criollo culture" and its paramount value the "viveza criolla". That thing kill us

YES! YES! YES!
Some Peruvians spend more time on cheeting than on doing things the legal way.
Moreover,
very few teach their children to be RESPONSIBLE.
If even the smallest possible unit of a nation, i.e. the individual person or a family, acts irresponsible, how can you expect that the entire nation acts better??

Hitoruna wrote:Lack of a national sense. we are not one nation since a white peruvian doesnt feel like an indian and doesnt even recognize as his or hers our imperial past

YES!!
This is also the reason why Chile screwed up Peru in the Guerra del Pacífico - and they surely could do it today for exactly the same reasons.

Hitoruna wrote:too many educated in law and too few in engineering

Mas o menos...
And even if you ARE educated in engineering..they do NOT care!
What counts are AMIGOS - and if you have the right contacts or the right TXXs, and nothing else

Hitoruna wrote:[*] that sense of shame of doing money. Being poor has become something to be proud of and being rich something to be ashamed.[/list]

NO!
Doing money is cool for most Peruvians..
However...it is laborious.
You have to make a lot of decisions and you have to be responsible, which is laborious as well. For these reasons many Peruvians cry for a strong leader that takes all these tedious tasks off their shoulders As a trade-off this leader is then entitled to enrich himself. This starts with the position of a mayor and does not end with...well we all know it from the newspapers...

Further reasons:
*Warm weather does not stimulate work. Why working too hard if you can live a happy life in a straw hut equiped with a TV?

*Peru could be one of the richest countries in the world because they HAVE practically everything!
But they need foreign companies to exploit their own resources...for the reasons mentioned above...
There is a peruvian saying: "A Peruvian is a poor person sitting on a mountain of gold".


PS:
Yes, sometimes I am sarcastic. But people living in Peru for some years may confirm that this sarcasm contains a lot of truth...

100%!!! Antonio Raimondi, an Italian biologist/explorer from the 1800s, compared Peru "to a beggar seated on a bench of gold."
My name is Fortunata Carhuapoma, pies de plomo. I'm a modest serrano girl in polleras and alpargatas.
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Re: Lots of well educated Peruvians..

Postby miaperu » Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:18 pm

Further reasons:
*Warm weather does not stimulate work. Why working too hard if you can live a happy life in a stra

This is very true. People are also extremely unreliable and not often true to their word unless it benefits them in some way. From my point of view the influential people in Peruvian society need to start setting a moral standard that the rest will follow.
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Re: Lots of well educated Peruvians..

Postby teamoperu » Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:25 pm

chi chi wrote:
caliguy wrote:lack of water and poor highway conditions is not due to intellect, but how money is spent. there are some really bad streets all over Lima that need attention. there is also the problem with air pollution, which i believe really needs to be addressed. Money cannot reduce litter and crime here


The highways to and from and around Tarapoto are in excellent condition ...


Lets play true or false... if you guessed false, you win.
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Re: Lots of well educated Peruvians..

Postby miaperu » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:26 pm

teamoperu wrote:
chi chi wrote:
caliguy wrote:lack of water and poor highway conditions is not due to intellect, but how money is spent. there are some really bad streets all over Lima that need attention. there is also the problem with air pollution, which i believe really needs to be addressed. Money cannot reduce litter and crime here


The highways to and from and around Tarapoto are in excellent condition ...


Lets play true or false... if you guessed false, you win.

Why false! ?Had you been anywhere in Peru you would know that this is correct. Tarapoto has a very good rd especially towards Yurimaguas. And yes there is money about but it is not spent well by selfish individuals in charge. So its TRUE.
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Re: Lots of well educated Peruvians..

Postby ironchefchris » Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:04 am

Still waiting for a more detailed explanation of what was meant by "and not be detered (sic) by human rights BS..."

Are you hoping for a benevolent dictator? Are you suggesting that human rights are "BS?" Inquiring minds want to know.
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Re: Lots of well educated Peruvians..

Postby argidd » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:21 pm

miaperu wrote:Further reasons:
*Warm weather does not stimulate work. Why working too hard if you can live a happy life in a stra

This is very true. People are also extremely unreliable and not often true to their word unless it benefits them in some way. From my point of view the influential people in Peruvian society need to start setting a moral standard that the rest will follow.


I totally agree with the weather note in general, but... Lima is NOT what you would consider a "hot" city. Lima houses 30% of Peru's population. Arequipa is the second most important and second largest city... I mean, if our population was concentrated in in Jungle or up north where the heat is unbearable (to me, at least) then I would understand. I honestly don't think that applies for most Peruvians. The viveza and criollada are the worst and what has made our society continuously backward.
Regards,

Argidd
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Re: Lots of well educated Peruvians..

Postby miaperu » Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:06 pm

ironchefchris wrote:Still waiting for a more detailed explanation of what was meant by "and not be detered (sic) by human rights BS..."

Are you hoping for a benevolent dictator? Are you suggesting that human rights are "BS?" Inquiring minds want to know.

No I don't; but I do when it interfers with the running of the country. This country needs to punish criminals in such a way that the never commit crime again. After all this is what ended terrorism at the end of the 19 ninety's.
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Re: Lots of well educated Peruvians..

Postby teamoperu » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:45 am

miaperu wrote:
teamoperu wrote:
chi chi wrote:
caliguy wrote:lack of water and poor highway conditions is not due to intellect, but how money is spent. there are some really bad streets all over Lima that need attention. there is also the problem with air pollution, which i believe really needs to be addressed. Money cannot reduce litter and crime here


The highways to and from and around Tarapoto are in excellent condition ...


Lets play true or false... if you guessed false, you win.

Why false! ?Had you been anywhere in Peru you would know that this is correct. Tarapoto has a very good rd especially towards Yurimaguas. And yes there is money about but it is not spent well by selfish individuals in charge. So its TRUE.


"Had I been anywhere in Peru you would know that this is correct." Thanks for giving me my laugh of the day! The highway to Yurimaguas starts in Paita, by the way. I've been on all the roads to and from Tarapoto several times, and inside and around. Obviously, you have not... or your definition of "excellent" is from the Dark Ages. But thanks for the laugh, especially how we have now gone from "excellent" roads to "very good rd"... what's next, some OK roads?
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Re: Lots of well educated Peruvians..

Postby SmartKitty » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:37 am

Teamoperu, that was Chichi, for her everything in Peru and Tarapoto is excellent. Ask her about Europe, she will tell you how horrible it is and she will compare the horrible Europe with everything excellent in Peru. :lol:
My name is Fortunata Carhuapoma, pies de plomo. I'm a modest serrano girl in polleras and alpargatas.

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