Lost my trust in Lima

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caliguy
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Lost my trust in Lima

Postby caliguy » Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:22 pm

Why you ask?
This past wednesday my office was broken into and burglarized. They ransacked my office, took all my valuable imported electronics, tools and electric motors. They also managed to take the entire dash from my new car! There are only wires dangling from where the gauges a/c and radio were once housed. Amazingly,they did not touch my coffee roasting equipment! This is not my 1st. experience. I entrusted a Peruvian couple in the U.S. to watch my maltese pup while out of town For 2 days. When i got back home, i went to pick up my pup, and low and behold, they said the dog had run off!
If this type of activity in Peru continues, i do not see any future of doing business here. I am really fed up!
The pólice were called on this matter, and arrived in about 10 minutes. They took a few notes, and said there was nothing they could do!
It is impossible to possess anything of value, as it will soon be taken away from you in short order. :evil:


every place has it's own spirit. you just need to tune into it.
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby teamoperu » Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:43 pm

Sympathies. Wasn't there some recent news article about Peru ranking 38th in security for businesses?
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby simperu2012 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:19 pm

I used to ask myself why everything in Lima had multiple locks, bars, alarms, "watchimanes" (guards) etc etc. The thing is that in any poor country, most people seize an opportunity to get ahead. If that means stealing, people steal. That's why everything is so heavily locked down here. It happened to me when I first got here, and since then I've taken care to not be a victim again. Sorry for your loss. Be very careful who you trust and lock down your home, car, and store like a hurricane is coming.

Good luck.
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby Hitoruna » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:40 pm

Caliguy, as a Peruvian I sincerely apologize for your bad experiences. Hope you have good experiences from now on to compensate...
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caliguy
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby caliguy » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:24 pm

teamoperu wrote:Sympathies. Wasn't there some recent news article about Peru ranking 38th in security for businesses?


or this may be?
http://www.peruviantimes.com/31/perus-i ... ter/19816/
every place has it's own spirit. you just need to tune into it.
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby caliguy » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:55 pm

simperu2012 wrote:I used to ask myself why everything in Lima had multiple locks, bars, alarms, "watchimanes" (guards) etc etc. The thing is that in any poor country, most people seize an opportunity to get ahead. If that means stealing, people steal. That's why everything is so heavily locked down here. It happened to me when I first got here, and since then I've taken care to not be a victim again. Sorry for your loss. Be very careful who you trust and lock down your home, car, and store like a hurricane is coming.

Good luck.


my business was locked down like a fortress! the purp had to penetrate 3 steel doors to gain access to my business.
they may steal to "get ahead", but at the same token, the person that was robbed wll now try to recover their loss by stealing! i'm just finding it hard to get ahead in Lima due to this fact!
every place has it's own spirit. you just need to tune into it.
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby lizzym » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:18 pm

Just had the opportunity to read lots of newspapers on a trip to the border this week and, if it's any consolation, you're certainly not alone. Almost every other article was about the worsening security situation in Lima (personal and business), how the people have basically given -- and continue to give -- a mandate to Humala to do something about it, how he ignored this topic in his July 28 address, criticisms from other politicians on this issue, etc. It dominated every paper that I read, from opinion columns to news pieces and even double-page spreads.

Help keep it in the public discourse; it'll have to get dealt with eventually (to an extent that people will actually be satisfied with.)
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby panman » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:30 pm

The blame for this and similar problems in all countries lies with the governments, and in the case of Peru It's not just Humala's government.
The chances are your car dash has already been sold on to someone who suffered a similar incident last Tuesday.
I remember several years ago during Garcia's last attempt to govern the country, whilst fleecing it dry, him promising to shut down and impose heavy fines/prison sentences on all of the businesses with unaccounted stockpiles of second hand car part. What came of that? Nothing.
The only way any crime can be stopped is with severe penalties and punishment, and that means ignoring the people who keep screaming out "human rights"
Peru has a lot of legislation in place to take care with the issues it suffers from, if only those rules were to be enforced.
A rule or law without an imposed consequence, is not worth the paper it's written on.

Glad to hear that they didn't take the coffee roasting equipment, that would probably need too much intelligence and entrepreneurial skill to make a profit from. Next time you roast some please pm me and I'll try and arrange to get a few bags.
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby gringito » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:51 pm

@caliguy:
Sorry to read that your business had been intruded and robbed!

Burglary, aussault, robbery and violence cause a terrible feeling, in particular if it is your 1st. time. What you experience at the moment, in particular the frustration and the negative feelings, is “simply” the psychological aftermath. It will take some (!) time to pass off.

As I can see from your public profile, your location is La Victoria (!).
Surely you know very well that La Victoria is one of Limas districts with the highest crime rate.
As a Gringo doing business in this area you ARE a target. Your business and YOU as a person.
I am surprised that even though you locked down your business like a fortress, you did not “really” expect burglary. A fortress contains booty. Every thug knows it – and the more impressive the fortress is the more nosy and greedy they become.

I said “did not REALLY expect” because even people that appear to be conscious of a threat quite often lapse into the “it never happens to me - only to the others”- syndrome. I belonged to this group, by the way. I expected to get robbed or assaulted nearly everywhere in Lima, in particular in the “bad” barrios…BUT they assaulted me in the park 100yards away from my own houe. Ok.. I got out of it with minor injuries and was prepared for the second round which I had the pleasure to experience about one year or so later, this time with a more positive outcome since I saw them approaching.
This just to cheer you up – as far as this is possible under such circumstances.

Don’t give up! Carry on!

Best saluditos
Gringito

PS:
NEVER trust Lima – but carry on and refine your security strategy!
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby ironchefchris » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:35 am

I too am sorry to hear of your misfortune. I was going to ask what security features had to be gotten through when I first read this before going out a few hours ago, but now see that you had things locked up pretty tight. I myself have only experience petty theft in Latin America, but as someone who is planning on opening a business myself your story gives me concern. I don't want to fall into the trap of thinking "it won't happen to me," but I don't want to live my life in fear. Once again, sorry for your misfortune, and as was mentioned, they didn't get your roasting equipment. I look forward to buying your coffee next time I'm in Lima.
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby caliguy » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:48 pm

after a couple of days to cool down, i am starting to look at this in a different perspective: "if you leave an unattended child in a candy store" chances are, they will come out with their pockets full. i do partially blame the government for this. i also believe that several neighbors were in on it as lookouts. i have known since several years ago that La Victoria is not a good place to conduct business.
more security measures will be in order, including electrical fencing.
the insurance company will be picking up my car later today to be repaired.
Hitoruna, thank you for the kind words, i have had many pleasant experiences in Peru, and will not let this misfortune get me down.
thank you all for the nice replies!
Panman: anytime you want some coffee, send me a pm. and i'll roast some up. i think you will like it :D
every place has it's own spirit. you just need to tune into it.
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby richiecry » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:14 pm

Ok....finally fixed problems in Canada and will be moving down to Peru. I will NOT be moving to La Victoria...and am truly sorry you had to go through this. I have never experienced anything except some petty theft....but recounts such as this enforce the fact that I need to be aware of where I am and where I live...
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby ironchefchris » Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:19 pm

Out of curiosity, do insurance policies exist here in Peru that cover losses in such incidents?
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby caliguy » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:34 pm

ironchefchris wrote:Out of curiosity, do insurance policies exist here in Peru that cover losses in such incidents?


they are covering my losses on the vehicle, i still have to pay 10% deductable. as for the tools and electronics that were stolen, no recovery.
every place has it's own spirit. you just need to tune into it.
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby marlia » Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:14 pm

Hello Caliguy, sorry to hear what happened to you. Last week also there was one man climbed up the poste (I don't know in English :?: ) in front of our house in the middle of the night. Luckily, our neighbors saw him and started to shout to him. He got scared and ran away. We believe that man planned to jump into the balcony of my next door neighbor. Now, we put grease on the poste, hopefully nobody will try to climb it again :twisted:
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby RICHARDandNORA » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:18 pm

I had an office of mine robbed at gun point about 1.5 years ago. It was located in Independencia and about 30 computers with dual flat screens, laser printers and plotters were stolen. No one in the area even called the police while the robbery occurred.
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby Philipc4u59 » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:34 pm

Greg & Amanda,

You guys are GOOD PEOPLE; we have been together several times & I consider you GOOD FRIENDS.
Please let us know if there is ANYTHING we can do to ease your PAIN & FRUSTRATION.
As much as it doesn't help immediately; GOD KNOWS...

HE knows the thieves that pounce upon good people & will see that justice is served, with an eternity in Hell.
You both are too strong & will soon be too successful to be derailed by these "scum of the earth".
We have a dog (as you know) that is loveable, but I pity the person that tries to break into our place.

One time at the park, a friend was kidding with me & grabbed my arm; the dog wanted to tear him apart.
Maybe you might consider a dog; they are great company & great protection.
I can't believe the scum got thru your steel bars & lock; they may have been pros.

We will say a prayer for you both at church tomorrow,
Philip & Rosmery :roll:
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby Philipc4u59 » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:41 pm

I have invested in two (2) businesses since coming here in May 2012:

1. A call center, was broken into & all the computers stolen; has yet to reopen.
2. An antique business with a "good" location in Miraflores; a lot of valuable stuff was taken.

Does Peru have a law to protect a person if they SHOOT any intruders?
if not, they should have. in the US, you just need to bring the body into the house to "prove" that your well-being was threatened. If anyone needs someone to help with moving a thief; call me...

Philip :roll:
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby TShadow » Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:22 pm

That's very sarcastic Philipc4u59 :twisted:

I usually have a spare gun to put into the offenders hands after shooting him, in case he lost his.

It's also very easy to fall out of the window or from the balcony. Solves a lot of problems, as Peru does not offer a real protection in case you hurt the attacker, e.g. if he has a knife and you a gun, you will get into big troubles using it.
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby Philipc4u59 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:43 pm

I appreciate your comments, but how is the law interpreted?
One of my former bosses is a "big-deal" in construction in NJ; he had a body in his construction shed.
It is all a matter of "who you know..." & the rest will be OK.

Philip :roll:
PS - someone hurts me or my family & they will "pay" dearly
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby windsportinperu » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:28 pm

Each time I read this kind of unhappy situation, where an expat is robbed in Peru... I can only feel myself embarrassed for what is happening in Peru since a long time ago.

At to this point, Humala hasn't been the tough guy who promise to eradicate crimes and robberies in Peru. He has followed the same model as the last presidents of this country...

Naively, peruvians voted for Humala because there was a "vox populi" that Humala as an ex-member of the Army, would have enough courage to change this high rate of crimes in Peru..

Caliguy, I really hope that you will recover your trust in Peru, and in Lima... As a word of caution , I suggest to move your office to a safer area.
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby chi chi » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:02 pm

caliguy wrote:
simperu2012 wrote:I used to ask myself why everything in Lima had multiple locks, bars, alarms, "watchimanes" (guards) etc etc. The thing is that in any poor country, most people seize an opportunity to get ahead. If that means stealing, people steal. That's why everything is so heavily locked down here. It happened to me when I first got here, and since then I've taken care to not be a victim again. Sorry for your loss. Be very careful who you trust and lock down your home, car, and store like a hurricane is coming.

Good luck.


my business was locked down like a fortress! the purp had to penetrate 3 steel doors to gain access to my business.
they may steal to "get ahead", but at the same token, the person that was robbed wll now try to recover their loss by stealing! i'm just finding it hard to get ahead in Lima due to this fact!


The ones that looted your place were professionals. As they had to penetrate 3 steels doors, means that they knew there were 3 steal doors and figured out how to get trough them. Those people have been in your business before. They must have acted as potential customers or maybe are customers that previously bought things from you. Most likely they live close to your business and having it watched for weeks or months. You don't have to look to far. It could be fellow business people who have a business accross the road.
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby Philipc4u59 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:05 pm

Chi Chi, good to hear from you; you haven't been very active lately.
Good advice, as the robber had precious knowledge of the office/space; could have been anyone!
I had a house for indigent people in US (free room, shower, heat in winter, etc.) & they still stole from me.

I really don't understand how our societies are progressing to this point...

Philip :roll:
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby chi chi » Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:32 am

caliguy wrote:my business was locked down like a fortress! the purp had to penetrate 3 steel doors to gain access to my business.
they may steal to "get ahead", but at the same token, the person that was robbed wll now try to recover their loss by stealing! i'm just finding it hard to get ahead in Lima due to this fact!


If they took that effort to enter your business then they must have known in advance that there were valuable electronics in your office. And they must have been in your office before. I could have been people acting as customers but actually just came to talk to you to 'check out' your place or they even might have been customers you have been doing business with.

The best thing is to live next or above your business. And if you don't then you will have to contract a vigilante who watches your business all night long. That's what most businesses do.

Unfortunately, getting robbed and being extorted is part of doing business in Lima.
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby chi chi » Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:46 am

panman wrote:The only way any crime can be stopped is with severe penalties and punishment, and that means ignoring the people who keep screaming out "human rights"


Tougher sentences won't bring down crime. Tougher sentences will make robbers just more violent.

Doing something about poverty will bring down crime. Most people steal to survive. Not because they want to. If you are hungry and jobless then you will do anything to get food on the table.

Introducing a good wellfare system with generous unemployment benefits, free healthcare, education and social housing will solve all the problems that most Peruvians face.
The minimum wage should be increased and business should get inspected continiously if they pay enough taxes and respect the working conditions and pay of their employees.
Employers that break those rules should get very tough sentences. Not the poor guy that steals something just to support his poor family.

It's totally unacceptable that people in some districts of Lima live in luxury and in other parts people live in shantytowns and suffer hunger.

The gap between rich and poor is too big and that's the cause of crime.
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby Philipc4u59 » Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:29 am

Chi Chi,

I agree 100%; when a person sees his family are hungry & w/o a decent home - they resort to crime.
My one problem is that Belgium (your home country) & the US (mine); have allowed the "entitlement" to be so generous that there is no incentive to work.

There has to be a happy medium, so those that work are not forced to pay a huge percentage of their earnings to take care of those that could work - but decide to let "the system" take care of them.

Still waiting for that hook-up for cable,
Philip :roll:
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby KenBE » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:20 pm

caliguy wrote:Why you ask?
This past wednesday my office was broken into and burglarized. They ransacked my office, took all my valuable imported electronics, tools and electric motors. They also managed to take the entire dash from my new car! There are only wires dangling from where the gauges a/c and radio were once housed. Amazingly,they did not touch my coffee roasting equipment! This is not my 1st. experience. I entrusted a Peruvian couple in the U.S. to watch my maltese pup while out of town For 2 days. When i got back home, i went to pick up my pup, and low and behold, they said the dog had run off!
If this type of activity in Peru continues, i do not see any future of doing business here. I am really fed up!
The pólice were called on this matter, and arrived in about 10 minutes. They took a few notes, and said there was nothing they could do!
It is impossible to possess anything of value, as it will soon be taken away from you in short order. :evil:


I am very sorry this happened to you. Unfortunately, I am not surprised. After living in Peru for 6 years I know how things are there. Crime is getting completely out of hand. My ex-novia was actually express-kidnapped in Trujillo a few months ago. Three choros held her for an hour and beat her. And this is far from the only thng that I saw/heard of happening. It really is a shame because Peru is such a great country.
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby tupacperu » Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:15 pm

CaliGuy, I feel for you. It is frustrating trying to do business in Peru, between the Municipalities and the thieves and even partners.

I had to hire a lawyer in 2006 to open an internet cabina in Pueblo Libre. The municipality denied my license at first because of zoning, residential, though there were restaurants and stores on the street. took 3 months to open my business.

Then there was a moratorium on the number of internet cabinas and and limit on how much you could charge. I got my licence under the deadline, though I had to comply with pricing.

The Cabina was located Pueblo Libre - 2006-2007. Spent about $15K-$20Kon the setup, computers and equipment. Had a high-tech alarm systems. Someone squeezed a small kid through the bathroom window (broke the window), then passed all my CPUs through the security bars.

The guy I had working for me (gave him a percentage of the business - sister-in-law's boyfriend), I believe he was in on the burglary. The Alarm went ringing the police paid no attention. The alarm called the guy (at his home), he was delayed until morning in calling the police. He claims he was afraid that the thieves would have guns. I am sure him and his buddies split the BOOTY.

I purchased more CPUs to keep it open (1 years lease), but later sold it at a big loss.
You cannot trust the people that guard your place, they have friends, that have friends, :)

I had been considering opening a Bar/Bistro/Restaurant on my beachfront property in Pimentel. But I have weighed the risk and decided never to open a storefront again. I have plans to finish my home and rent it as vacation property. (no handling cash - credit cards accepted). But I still have to worry about break-ins and taking of TV's etc...... Damn if you do and Damn if you don't....

So sorry to hear about your loss, I still get angry about mine even after 7 years.
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby tupacperu » Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:23 pm

richiecry wrote:Ok....finally fixed problems in Canada and will be moving down to Peru. I will NOT be moving to La Victoria...and am truly sorry you had to go through this. I have never experienced anything except some petty theft....but recounts such as this enforce the fact that I need to be aware of where I am and where I live...


Richiecry, Business theft is pretty bad in La Victoria I admit, along with petty theft. But in the high end neighborhoods you have to worry about home invasions and carjacking at gunpoint. Thieves go to where the money lives....
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Re: Lost my trust in Lima

Postby chi chi » Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:40 pm

KenBE wrote:I am very sorry this happened to you. Unfortunately, I am not surprised. After living in Peru for 6 years I know how things are there. Crime is getting completely out of hand. My ex-novia was actually express-kidnapped in Trujillo a few months ago. Three choros held her for an hour and beat her. And this is far from the only thng that I saw/heard of happening. It really is a shame because Peru is such a great country.


It depends where you live in Peru. Tarapoto is a very safe city to do business. Unlike in Lima, there aren't security guards at the doors at restaurants and shops. The homes that are being built lately no longer have metal bars in front of the windows. And more and more shops no longer have metal shutters or metal bars in front of their windows. Just a glass storefront like most shops in Europe have.
There' s plenty of police on the streets and when you call them they arrive within minutes.
Tarapoto is an example for other cities.
If you throw a piece of paper or dump rubbish anywhere, you will be told off. If you trespass someones property, the neighboor will call the cops. People in Tarapoto are proud of their city.

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