Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

This is the place for ON or Off topic conversations. Almost anything goes - but be kind, and no trolling.
Forum rules
While the rules in this forum are more relaxed than in other parts of the Expat site, there are still a few things we’d like you to remember: No name calling, no insults – be civil to each other!
User avatar
chi chi
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 6060
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:28 pm
Location: Granada, Andalusia

Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby chi chi » Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:03 pm

http://elcomercio.pe/actualidad/1649262 ... ion-europa

From 2015, Peruvians will no longer need a visa to travel to the Schengen countries of the EU.
Although, the will only able to travel visa free for a stay of up to 90 days and to travel as a tourist, it's expected that many will go, overstay their visa and work illegally.

In the last few weeks, I have heard loads of people saying that they will go to Europe in 2015. Many started allready saving money to pay for their airfare. The know that they can only stay 90 days and only as a tourist but they don't care. Millions of Peruvians have been to Spain and other European countries and work their illegally. So, who cares?

This will for sure result in a shortage of people that want to do low paid and low skilled jobs in Peru. Peru will have to do drastic measures to attract immigrants to Peru that are low skilled and willing to work for very low wages. Many Peruvian companies will suffer from a shortage of employees.


argidd
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 827
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:58 pm
Location: Lima, Peru

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby argidd » Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:42 pm

Chichi, if Peru did not fall short of people doing "low skilled jobs" in the 80's; where you even had to line up for a piece of bread+terrorism+crazy economy and didn't need a visa for Europe; then it is definitely not going to fall short of people now. Please, let's keep the drama down.
Regards,

Argidd
User avatar
chi chi
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 6060
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:28 pm
Location: Granada, Andalusia

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby chi chi » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:00 pm

argidd wrote:Chichi, if Peru did not fall short of people doing "low skilled jobs" in the 80's; where you even had to line up for a piece of bread+terrorism+crazy economy and didn't need a visa for Europe; then it is definitely not going to fall short of people now. Please, let's keep the drama down.


We are no longer living in the 80's.
In the 80's they probably didn't have to money to buy a ticket to Europe. Airfares were far more expensive back then.
Now airfares are far cheaper and people can just buy it with a credit card.

Every day, I hear people saying that they will leave in 2015. And they all talk about going to work and live in Europe permanently. 90 days maximum stay and no work authorisation, just tourism. They don't care. Millions went before them and they overstayed their visa and work illegally.
And businesses in Europe will embrace them with open arms because they can treat them like slaves and underpay them.
teamoperu
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1709
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:07 am

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby teamoperu » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:40 pm

Millions of low paid low skill workers are going to have money for “cheap” tickets to Europe, so many that Peru will have a shortage of low skill workers... bet you a Belgium waffle that you are wrong.
panman
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 900
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:05 pm

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby panman » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:48 pm

teamoperu wrote:Millions of low paid low skill workers are going to have money for “cheap” tickets to Europe, so many that Peru will have a shortage of low skill workers... bet you a Belgium waffle that you are wrong.

There's no such thing as a "cheap ticket" to Europe, trust me, I'm trying to plan next years Vacation.
User avatar
chi chi
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 6060
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:28 pm
Location: Granada, Andalusia

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby chi chi » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:53 pm

teamoperu wrote:Millions of low paid low skill workers are going to have money for “cheap” tickets to Europe, so many that Peru will have a shortage of low skill workers... bet you a Belgium waffle that you are wrong.


They will scrape money together. They sell their belongings and relatives will borrow them money. It's not that hard to scrape 500-750 euros together.

You'll be impressed how many people are going to leave.

Free education, free health care, free social housing and generous wellfare allowances are awaiting them.
(That's much better than living in a moldy shack in a shantytown and having to work 16 hours a day and 7 days a week for a lousy wage.)
They just have to apply for asylum. Probably, their application won't be succesfull but it easily can take years to process their application and in the meantime they can enjoy the above benefits.
mammamia
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 307
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:49 pm

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby mammamia » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:11 pm

[i]They just have to apply for asylum. Probably, their application won't be succesfull but it easily can take years to process their application and in the meantime they can enjoy the above benefits.[/quote]

None of the EU countries grants asylum that easily these days. Most likely Peruvian asylum seekers, if there are any, will be deported after their applications have been considered.
mammamia
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 307
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:49 pm

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby mammamia » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:17 pm

There's an interesting comment to this article:

Así fue cuando Canadá hasta hace 2 años dejaba que los mexicanos entrarán sin visa, solo visitante hasta 3 meses, y los mexicanos comenzarón a mudarse a Canadá que el gobierno tuvo que restablecer el visado a los mexicanos, siguen deportando a muchos que se quedarón de ilegales. Abusan del pe

This visa matter should never be taken for granted.
User avatar
chi chi
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 6060
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:28 pm
Location: Granada, Andalusia

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby chi chi » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:04 pm

mammamia wrote:[i][i]They just have to apply for asylum. Probably, their application won't be succesfull but it easily can take years to process their application and in the meantime they can enjoy the above benefits.[/quotei]

None of the EU countries grants asylum that easily these days. Most likely Peruvian asylum seekers, if there are any, will be deported after their applications have been considered.[/quote]

Right, it's a bit more stricter nowadays but it generally takes years to process and application and if unsuccesfull, they can endlessly appeal against the decision. Lawyers (paid for by the taxpayer) will delay the case as long as possible and in the meantime the illegal immigrants can enjoy all kinds of wellfare benefits.
Female asylumseekers that get pregnant will never be deported as they are the parent of an EU citizen.

Hopping on a flight to Europe is all worth it:

Social housing in Europe Vs.
88.jpg
88.jpg (8.07 KiB) Viewed 4538 times


Vs. ''social housing'' in Peru
24.jpg
24.jpg (12.36 KiB) Viewed 4538 times
rudder
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:25 pm

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby rudder » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:44 pm

Those low-skilled European jobs are already being occupied by immigrants from other places like Eastern Europe and northern Africa. It's not like Mexicans going to the USA. It won't be so easy for the Peruvians to find a job there illegally. Especially since the European economy has suffered considerably in recent years.

Nonetheless, I bet there will still be alot of Peruvians going to chase their "European" dream.
Turn a desert into a sustainable food oasis:

http://cropsfordrylands.com/
User avatar
tupacperu
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 3350
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:36 am
Location: Pimentel Beach-Chiclayo- Sanford NC
Contact:

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby tupacperu » Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:40 am

It's a tourist visa... Finding work will be difficult, seeing that Europe is still deep in the economic crisis.
Millions may go but not all will stay. North America and South America are connected by land. Many poor will not be able to afford crossing the ocean.
User avatar
tomsax
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1394
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:28 pm

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby tomsax » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:07 am

Also it's not law yet. It still has to be approved by the European Parliament. Apparently Honduran citizens already don't need a Schengan visa and I would say Honduras is a poorer country than Peru or Colombia. Are there lots of Hondurans now arriving in Europe as tourists but overstaying and working?
Last edited by tomsax on Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tom
ironchefchris
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:10 pm
Location: Arequipa

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby ironchefchris » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:31 am

tomsax wrote:Are there lots of Hondurans now arriving in Europe as tourists but overstaying and working?

Billions.
User avatar
chi chi
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 6060
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:28 pm
Location: Granada, Andalusia

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby chi chi » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:54 pm

rudder wrote:Those low-skilled European jobs are already being occupied by immigrants from other places like Eastern Europe and northern Africa. It's not like Mexicans going to the USA. It won't be so easy for the Peruvians to find a job there illegally. Especially since the European economy has suffered considerably in recent years.

Nonetheless, I bet there will still be alot of Peruvians going to chase their "European" dream.


The Eastern Europeans can legally work in Western Europe so they demand the same pay. They no longer want to work for lower wages. They can also claim wellfare benefits as they are EU citizens so they are not going to work for less than that.

There are loads of jobvacancies available for hotel and restaurant staff, cleaners, warehouse workers and in construction. Peruvians will be willing to work off the record for far less money than the going rates.
And employers embrace them with open arms. Very rarely an employer get punished for employing illegal immigrants and if they do, the fines are ridiculously low.
Alpineprince
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1484
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:12 pm
Location: "Miraflores State of Mind"

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby Alpineprince » Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:21 pm

If the sanitation workers from Miraflores were to go to Madrid, they would "CLEANUP"!
mammamia
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 307
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:49 pm

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby mammamia » Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:08 pm

The Eastern Europeans can legally work in Western Europe so they demand the same pay. They no longer want to work for lower wages. They can also claim wellfare benefits as they are EU citizens so they are not going to work for less than that.

There are loads of jobvacancies available for hotel and restaurant staff, cleaners, warehouse workers and in construction. Peruvians will be willing to work off the record for far less money than the going rates.
And employers embrace them with open arms. Very rarely an employer get punished for employing illegal immigrants and if they do, the fines are ridiculously low.[/quote]


You are forgetting Indians, Pakistanis, Chinese and Arabs who are arriving in Europe illegally by the thousand each day. I think that they can easily fill the positions you are reserving for Peruvians.
User avatar
chi chi
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 6060
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:28 pm
Location: Granada, Andalusia

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby chi chi » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:28 am

mammamia wrote:You are forgetting Indians, Pakistanis, Chinese and Arabs who are arriving in Europe illegally by the thousand each day. I think that they can easily fill the positions you are reserving for Peruvians.


Many of them claim asylum so they don't have to work. They get free housing and wellfare payments from day one.
And there are still loads of jobvacancies available for Peruvians.
rudder
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:25 pm

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby rudder » Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:11 pm

chi chi wrote:
mammamia wrote:You are forgetting Indians, Pakistanis, Chinese and Arabs who are arriving in Europe illegally by the thousand each day. I think that they can easily fill the positions you are reserving for Peruvians.


Many of them claim asylum so they don't have to work. They get free housing and wellfare payments from day one.
And there are still loads of jobvacancies available for Peruvians.


What a life!
Turn a desert into a sustainable food oasis:

http://cropsfordrylands.com/
User avatar
chi chi
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 6060
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:28 pm
Location: Granada, Andalusia

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby chi chi » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:05 am

rudder wrote:
chi chi wrote:
mammamia wrote:You are forgetting Indians, Pakistanis, Chinese and Arabs who are arriving in Europe illegally by the thousand each day. I think that they can easily fill the positions you are reserving for Peruvians.


Many of them claim asylum so they don't have to work. They get free housing and wellfare payments from day one.
And there are still loads of jobvacancies available for Peruvians.


What a life!


If I was a poor Peruvian living in a shantytown and slaving himself out for a lousy wage, I would call Iberia and hop on a combi to Jorge Chavez in 2015.
User avatar
fanning
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1418
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:01 pm
Location: Lima

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby fanning » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:20 am

Venezuelans currently don't need a visa for Schengen, but if you look at the requirements to actually enter Holland for example as a Tourist, is that at the border you must show:
- At least EUR 34 pp / per day
- original invitation letter signed by the Dutch you are invited to
- other wise hotelbookings, and a traveliternary. You must make your visit plausible
-Travel insurance of at least EUR 30.000

So it will be easier to enter, but they still will try to filter out the possible immigrants.
argidd
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 827
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:58 pm
Location: Lima, Peru

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby argidd » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:23 am

chi chi wrote:
rudder wrote:
chi chi wrote:
mammamia wrote:You are forgetting Indians, Pakistanis, Chinese and Arabs who are arriving in Europe illegally by the thousand each day. I think that they can easily fill the positions you are reserving for Peruvians.


Many of them claim asylum so they don't have to work. They get free housing and wellfare payments from day one.
And there are still loads of jobvacancies available for Peruvians.


What a life!


If I was a poor Peruvian living in a shantytown and slaving himself out for a lousy wage, I would call Iberia and hop on a combi to Jorge Chavez in 2015.


That person living in a shaunty town, slaving themselves, will probably tell you that they will go with their family or else stay here. A lot of people here have a really REALLY deep (for lack of better word) sense of family.
Regards,

Argidd
User avatar
chi chi
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 6060
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:28 pm
Location: Granada, Andalusia

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby chi chi » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:27 am

fanning wrote:Venezuelans currently don't need a visa for Schengen, but if you look at the requirements to actually enter Holland for example as a Tourist, is that at the border you must show:
- At least EUR 34 pp / per day
- original invitation letter signed by the Dutch you are invited to
- other wise hotelbookings, and a traveliternary. You must make your visit plausible
-Travel insurance of at least EUR 30.000

So it will be easier to enter, but they still will try to filter out the possible immigrants.


No problem, they can fly into Brussels (where nobody cares at immigration) and take the train to Holland.
User avatar
chi chi
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 6060
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:28 pm
Location: Granada, Andalusia

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby chi chi » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:31 am

argidd wrote:That person living in a shaunty town, slaving themselves, will probably tell you that they will go with their family or else stay here. A lot of people here have a really REALLY deep (for lack of better word) sense of family.


Sure they have. But if they go to Europe then the can help their family in Peru get out of that shack and get enough food on the table and they can pay for better education for their children so that they don't end up living in a shack too.
User avatar
fanning
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1418
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:01 pm
Location: Lima

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby fanning » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:45 am

Surprizingly we had many job applicants who came from the USA. At first we didn't even select them for jobinterviews, as we supposed that our ( Peruvian ) salaries would never meet their expectations, having worked in the US. But as we got so many of those applicants, we started to invite them.
And they were more than willing to work for the salary we offered.
In the US they lost their jobs, and couldn't get new ones, which made them come back to Peru and work happily for Peruvian salaries.
User avatar
chi chi
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 6060
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:28 pm
Location: Granada, Andalusia

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby chi chi » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:49 pm

fanning wrote:Surprizingly we had many job applicants who came from the USA. At first we didn't even select them for jobinterviews, as we supposed that our ( Peruvian ) salaries would never meet their expectations, having worked in the US. But as we got so many of those applicants, we started to invite them.
And they were more than willing to work for the salary we offered.
In the US they lost their jobs, and couldn't get new ones, which made them come back to Peru and work happily for Peruvian salaries.


Are those applicants Peruvians that lived illegally in the US and returned to Peru after losing their job in the US?
TShadow
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby TShadow » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:24 pm

That person living in a shaunty town, slaving themselves, will probably tell you that they will go with their family or else stay here. A lot of people here have a really REALLY deep (for lack of better word) sense of family.


When I had a Peruvian girl friend in Italy I had the occasion to meet hundreds of them working in Italy. None had the family with them, many women even had left their small children at home with their parents.

Also many of them had no problems to have affairs with Italians.
Nikki Jo
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:30 pm
Location: Minnesota, USA

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby Nikki Jo » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:43 pm

Hello, my name is Nikki and I live in Minnesota, USA. I have been reading your conversation and have become interested.
Are there other reasons why you feel the people in LIma will be moving to Europe by 2015?

I mean, what has caused the housing to look like this and the economy to fail?

I have been a bit confused trying to learn about your country. On one hand I learn that the country needs help in many ways, and on the other I learn that the economy has risen, and that Peru is doing wonderful! That they have no problems. Then I hear it is only the people that live in Lima that say these things for it is the people that live outside of Lima who are poor and need help.

Could you or someone please educate me with more clear answers about your country? I am trying very hard to learn about it for my college class.

I thank you very much,

NIkki



chi chi wrote:
mammamia wrote:[i][i]They just have to apply for asylum. Probably, their application won't be succesfull but it easily can take years to process their application and in the meantime they can enjoy the above benefits.[/quotei]

None of the EU countries grants asylum that easily these days. Most likely Peruvian asylum seekers, if there are any, will be deported after their applications have been considered.


Right, it's a bit more stricter nowadays but it generally takes years to process and application and if unsuccesfull, they can endlessly appeal against the decision. Lawyers (paid for by the taxpayer) will delay the case as long as possible and in the meantime the illegal immigrants can enjoy all kinds of wellfare benefits.
Female asylumseekers that get pregnant will never be deported as they are the parent of an EU citizen.

Hopping on a flight to Europe is all worth it:

Social housing in Europe Vs.
88.jpg


Vs. ''social housing'' in Peru
24.jpg
[/quote]
User avatar
chi chi
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 6060
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:28 pm
Location: Granada, Andalusia

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby chi chi » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:40 pm

Nikki Jo wrote:Hello, my name is Nikki and I live in Minnesota, USA. I have been reading your conversation and have become interested.
Are there other reasons why you feel the people in LIma will be moving to Europe by 2015?

I mean, what has caused the housing to look like this and the economy to fail?

I have been a bit confused trying to learn about your country. On one hand I learn that the country needs help in many ways, and on the other I learn that the economy has risen, and that Peru is doing wonderful! That they have no problems. Then I hear it is only the people that live in Lima that say these things for it is the people that live outside of Lima who are poor and need help.

Could you or someone please educate me with more clear answers about your country? I am trying very hard to learn about it for my college class.

I thank you very much,

NIkki



The economy has risen but not everybody benefits from that. For many people it even got worser.
The gap between rich and poor has grown tremendously. Lima has almost 10 million inhabitants but more than half of them are poor to very poor.
And crime has risen a lot too since that the economy got better.

Life got more expensive too. Prices have risen a lot but they wages have only gone up slightly.
And a large number of Peruvians get paid less than the official minimum wage.

There' no wellfare system. No job = no money and if you don't have money and you are very sick, you die in front of the hospital door.

The first thing that the government will have to do is providing wellfare benefits to the sick and unemployed and also provide social housing as millions of Peruvians live in shacks with no running wáter or electricity.
mammamia
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 307
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:49 pm

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby mammamia » Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:24 pm

[quote="chi chi

There' no wellfare system. No job = no money and if you don't have money and you are very sick, you die in front of the hospital door.

Chichi, you are not quite right saying that. Of course, Peru can't boast of such sofisticated and comprehensive welfare programs as in Denmark, Sweden, Germany and some other European countries but your statement that "there's no welfare system" isn't correct either. Have a look at http://www.juntos.gob.pe/.
And this isn't an NGO like many other private funds that are popping up almost every day in Peru but a governmental organization with an office in every province.

Nobody is going to kick a very sick person out of a hospital either. The treatment and medical attention won't be of high quality, of course, but the person in need of the latter will receive it according to the law. Besides, the poor in this country are covered by the so-called CIS (http://www.cisperu.org/) health insurance which is a far cry from any health care program known to an EU citizen but still can't be overlooked when talking about Peruvian healthcare system.
victmanu
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 832
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:08 am

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby victmanu » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:39 pm

The health care programme is called SIS ( Sistema integral de salud ) free for students of public schools and other poor people who register that state health care insurance.http://www.sis.gob.pe/
Other cheap option for many peole in Lima also chileans who live in Arica, Iquique and Antofagasta use this health care system in Tacna.
The SISOL system , the hospital de la solidaridad- They also have discounts for seniors and poor families.
http://www.sisol.gob.pe/home/hs/index.php
Other poor welfare instrument applied all over Peru is the pension 65 for those poor Elder people who has not retirement pensions.
http://www.pension65.gob.pe/
And the Qali warma food programme for poor students.
http://www.qaliwarma.gob.pe/
And they are starting to pick up the Elder people living in the streets, taking them to public shelters.

Also there is the beca 18 a scholarship mostly for poor students of the provinces That support them to study in public and private universities.
All those programmes are not enough to support poor people , but it is an advance in comparison to the last decade and before.
User avatar
chi chi
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 6060
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:28 pm
Location: Granada, Andalusia

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby chi chi » Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:08 am

victmanu wrote:The health care programme is called SIS ( Sistema integral de salud ) free for students of public schools and other poor people who register that state health care insurance.http://www.sis.gob.pe/

Also there is the beca 18 a scholarship mostly for poor students of the provinces That support them to study in public and private universities.
All those programmes are not enough to support poor people , but it is an advance in comparison to the last decade and before.



The government does still very Little.
The unemployed still don't get wellfare payments that enable them to live comfortably.

Millions get spent on the military. That money should be used in the first place to pay wellfare payments to the unemployed.
User avatar
19naia
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:49 pm

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby 19naia » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:06 pm

If this happens,if possible,it can work to ease perus street hustler population..the jobs and niches are filled in peru and there is overflow evidenced by street hustlers who work very hard for unpredictable pay in every city in peru..if they could find job openings even low payed they would be grateful for the predictable income where they know a full day plying the trade will bring a full days wage unlike buskers hustling whatever sale or service they can make money on...Easing this segment of the population,it will make the streets better,easier to maneuver...the street hustlers work harder often for less,unlike the securely employed with some job security and liberty to crawl like a snail while acting as if the customer is interrupting his/her nail polish and or cell chat,and still get that salary....there are plenty hard workers needing a place to fill....its europe to be concerned about,not to mention the funneling of euro cash to peru will be a boom for peru.... :mrgreen: ..this is the age of internet unlike the 80's where info is education and education is what drives the choice to make the exodus...80's was such blind sight beyond the workings within boundaries of 2 square miles .....more international knowledge on a cell phone now than was needed to get a bachelors degree in 1985....i bet it took a bachelors degree back then to operate systems as complex as cellphones today or even type efficiently as a web gossiping school girl in a third world country..
mammamia
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 307
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:49 pm

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby mammamia » Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:38 pm

Looks like by the end of this year Peruvians will travel to EU visa free.

http://peru21.pe/actualidad/visa-scheng ... os-2168612
User avatar
chi chi
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 6060
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:28 pm
Location: Granada, Andalusia

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby chi chi » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:58 pm

mammamia wrote:Looks like by the end of this year Peruvians will travel to EU visa free.

http://peru21.pe/actualidad/visa-scheng ... os-2168612


When flying out of Jorge Chavez, go well ahead of time or you might miss your flight because there will be long lines at check-in, security and immigration.

They will probably have to clear the parking lot in front of the terminal as waiting lines at check-in will stretch till Av. Faucett.
TShadow
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby TShadow » Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:17 pm

Looks like by the end of this year Peruvians will travel to EU visa free.


They then need the new biometric pass which should have introduced in Peru already years ago. Lets see how speedy bureaucracy will be.

When flying out of Jorge Chavez, go well ahead of time or you might miss your flight because there will be long lines at check-in, security and immigration.


Chi chi do you really think that thousands of Peruvians will travel to Europe? You must be kidding.

Actually I wish that more immigrants from Peru would come to Europe. The aging population e.g. needs serious persons who take care of the elderly people. Nearly all Peruvian women I saw in Italy are working with them. I prefer them handsover to the now legal people from the eastern countries, very often criminals or just waiting to get the money from German Social Fare. Peruvians are far more serious people and workers in this respect.
mammamia
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 307
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:49 pm

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby mammamia » Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:28 pm

They
then need the new biometric pass which should have introduced in Peru
already years ago. Lets see how speedy bureaucracy will
be.
[/quote]

Biometric passports is the easiest thing in the whole process and the
most profitable for the Peruvian government as well since instead of S/.40
or so they will be charging around S/.120 for the issuance of a
biometric passport. It's a money making opportunity too, don't you think
so? And when they (migraciones) see the opportunity to make SOME extra
money (I guess most travel passport holders will want to exchange their
old passports for new biometric passes) they will grab it, I'm sure of
it.
Last edited by mammamia on Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TShadow
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby TShadow » Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:50 pm

And when they (migraciones) see the opportunity to make SOME extra money (I guess most travel passport holders will want to exchange their old passports for new biometric passes) they will grab it, I'm sure of it.



I never say it, but in this case: me too.
User avatar
gringo from uk
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:50 am

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby gringo from uk » Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:28 pm

Well, yes perhaps many Peruvians will leave the home country for better life. It is normal. Economic migration`s are common. Europa is in the bad economical shape, still You have to maintain the infrastructure for the people in Europa. I believe the visa free travel arrangement is needed to keep the very basic social system in operation. After 5-6 year`s the restrictions will take place.
My advice for all the Peruvians is , before You live to another country, be sure the job you are going to get is real. Although people in the Peru are amazing to find ideas to make business and money, still in the Europa is money making more regulated and unlicensed business will be quickly banned . I just hope people are taking time to think ,before they travel for a better life.
User avatar
chi chi
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 6060
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:28 pm
Location: Granada, Andalusia

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby chi chi » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:29 pm

TShadow wrote:Chi chi do you really think that thousands of Peruvians will travel to Europe? You must be kidding.

Actually I wish that more immigrants from Peru would come to Europe. The aging population e.g. needs serious persons who take care of the elderly people. Nearly all Peruvian women I saw in Italy are working with them. I prefer them handsover to the now legal people from the eastern countries, very often criminals or just waiting to get the money from German Social Fare. Peruvians are far more serious people and workers in this respect.


You are right, Western Europe is flooded by Eastern European criminals but there are also a lot of honest, hardworking Eastern Europeans that are playing by the rules and adapting themselves to the customs of the country they emigrated to.

But loads of Peruvians that live in Spain, Italy and other countries in Europe are involved in drugtrafficking, theft and extorsion.
Many Peruvian girls work in prostitution whereof a vast amount are sexslaves that work for pimps.
Because the jobmarket is gone downhill in Europe, it will be difficult to find a job and many will commit crimes to make a living. As they won't be entitled to wellfare benefits, crime will be the only way to make a living.

And for sure, many stupid ones will work als mulas to smuggle drugs to Europe. The amount of drugsmugglers will go up soon.

Decent Peruvians will apply for a work visa and will go legally to Europe.
mammamia
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 307
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:49 pm

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby mammamia » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:37 pm

gringo from uk wrote:Well, yes perhaps many Peruvians will leave the home country for better life. It is normal. Economic migration`s are common. Europa is in the bad economical shape, still You have to maintain the infrastructure for the people in Europa. I believe the visa free travel arrangement is needed to keep the very basic social system in operation. After 5-6 year`s the restrictions will take place.
My advice for all the Peruvians is , before You live to another country, be sure the job you are going to get is real. Although people in the Peru are amazing to find ideas to make business and money, still in the Europa is money making more regulated and unlicensed business will be quickly banned . I just hope people are taking time to think ,before they travel for a better life.


Unlike Chi Chi, I don't believe that thousands of Peruvians will flood EU. Yes, there will be an increase of immigration but I think those immigrants will be the relatives of the Peruvians already living there who can help their family members find jobs. I agree with TShadow: Peruvians are not the type of immigrants who come to Europe seeking asylum or social benefits, most Peuvian immigrants come to Europe to find jobs and this fact makes them completely different from Africans or Asians who arrive in EU by the thousand each day and many of them are in fact asylum seekers who burden the slack European economies with their problems.
Last edited by mammamia on Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mammamia
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 307
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:49 pm

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby mammamia » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:43 pm

And for sure, many stupid ones will work als mulas to smuggle drugs to Europe. The amount of drugsmugglers will go up soon.


Lately, I've only been hearing about EU citizens who've been caught carrying drugs to Europe. Peruvians seem to have understood that it was a very bad way of smuggling drugs.
Last edited by mammamia on Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
chi chi
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 6060
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:28 pm
Location: Granada, Andalusia

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby chi chi » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:47 pm

mammamia wrote:Unlike Chi Chi, I don't believe that thousands of Peruvians will flood EU. Yes, there will be an increase of immigration but I think those immigrants will be the relatives of the Peruvians already living there who can help their family members find jobs. I agree with TShadow: Peruvians are not the type of immigrants who come to Europe seeking asylum or social benefits, most Peuvian immigrants come to Europe to find jobs and this fact makes them completely different from Africans or Asian immigrants who arrive in EU by the thousand each day and many of them are in fact asylum seekers who burden the slack European economies with their problems.


mammamia, Peruvians will be able to travel to Europe for tourism up to 90 days without a visa but they won't be able to work or do business during their stay. So, if they work, it will be illegally.

Unscrupulous employers will be happy that the Peruvians will come to Europe because they can exploit them and pay them very low wages. But Peruvians will have to work for ridiculously low wages because they will face competition from the Bulgarians and Romanians that are legally allowed to work in the EU.
User avatar
chi chi
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 6060
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:28 pm
Location: Granada, Andalusia

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby chi chi » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:51 pm

mammamia wrote:
And for sure, many stupid ones will work als mulas to smuggle drugs to Europe. The amount of drugsmugglers will go up soon.


Lately, I've only been hearing about EU citizens who've been caught carrying drugs to Europe. Peruvians seem to have understood that it was a very bad way of smuggling drugs.


Simply because EU citizens don't need a visa to travel from Peru to Europe and backwards.
Peruvians that have a visa are mostly well of Peruvians that live in Peru or Peruvians that live in Europe and have a good job so they aren't desperate to make a quick buck in a stupid way.
mammamia
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 307
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:49 pm

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby mammamia » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:58 pm

mammamia, Peruvians will be able to travel to Europe for tourism up to 90 days without a visa but they won't be able to work or do business during their stay. So, if they work, it will be illegally.


Yes, that's what I meant saying that Peruvian immigrants living in EU will help their family members. And, of course, the jobs they will be able to offer them will be illegal jobs. But that's the way it works for most immigrants: most come to EU on tourist visas and then by hook or by crook get the papers they need to stay there permanently, it is much harder nowadays but still possible.
victmanu
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 832
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:08 am

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby victmanu » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:04 pm

chi chi wrote:
mammamia wrote:
And for sure, many stupid ones will work als mulas to smuggle drugs to Europe. The amount of drugsmugglers will go up soon.


Lately, I've only been hearing about EU citizens who've been caught carrying drugs to Europe. Peruvians seem to have understood that it was a very bad way of smuggling drugs.


Simply because EU citizens don't need a visa to travel from Peru to Europe and backwards.
Peruvians that have a visa are mostly well of Peruvians that live in Peru or Peruvians that live in Europe and have a good job so they aren't desperate to make a quick buck in a stupid way.


Most of the peruvian who migrated to E.U. lately are coming from poor families or low middle class. When the housing boom happened in Spain at the beggining of the XXI century The spanish government and the spanish Unions made a deal with the peruvian Construction Union to get thousands of workers affiliated to the Union. At least 50 thousand peruvians migrated to Spain , few years later they changed their immigration status and got the permanent residence what allowed them to take their family to Spain. So that situation started other cycle of migration of peruvians to Spain. Many of them when the first warning of burst of the housing bubble in Spain, migrated to other european countries.

To Italy the last decade there was a migration of peruvian nurses and housekeepers. Before that during the military dictatorship ( 70s ) and the financial crisis of the 80s many peruvians of italian descent and peruvians of japanese descent ( middle class and upper class ) got the italian and japanese citizenship and migrated to those countries.
asp
Member
Member
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:51 pm
Location: Arequipa
Contact:

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby asp » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:32 pm

Are there jobs for Spanish speakers in Europe?

Image
User avatar
chi chi
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 6060
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:28 pm
Location: Granada, Andalusia

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby chi chi » Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:26 pm

asp wrote:Are there jobs for Spanish speakers in Europe?

Image


There are loads of job for anyone who wants to work for a low wage. The unemployment rates are high simply because many people are better off on wellfare.

I am living of unemployment benefits. If I work, I will earn 25% less. And I no longer will enjoy free public transport. When I work, I will only get 4 weeks paid vacation a year. Now I get 6 weeks paid vacation.

When I work, I will have to work till I am 65 years old to get a pension. Long term unemployed get a pension from the age of 55.

Look at the jobwebsites in the Netherlands, UK, Belgium, Ireland, France... Millions of jobadverts. Some adverts have been on the websites for months or years because nobody applied for the job.

Many companies like Sheration, Hilton, Crowne Plaza have been applying for visas for applicants from Thailand and the Philipines.

Jobs for Spanish speakers? Walk in any hotel or restaurant kitchen or cleaning company in Europe and most of the staff hardly speaks the language of the country they work in.

The US should also abolish the visa requirement for Latin Americans because companies in the US are desperate for staff. Just look at Craiglist.com and everyday there are thousands of new jobvacancies added for restaurant and hotel staff.

Last year, my gf and I were in the US. Just to check it out if it was posible to get a job in the US, we applied to many jobs. Allmost all companies wanted to hire us on the spot even they were aware that legally we weren't allowed to work in the US and my gf didn't speak English at all.
And the money wasn't too bad. $2000-$3000 a month cash in hand under the table.

If people don't have a job then it's simply because they don't want to work and refuse any job offer.
teamoperu
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1709
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:07 am

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby teamoperu » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:35 pm

Wow chi chi. You live in Peru on unemployment benefits from Belgium, travel often to the USA, if I remember own a home here, amazing. Will Peruvians who go to Belgium be able to work such a sweet deal too?
User avatar
chi chi
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 6060
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:28 pm
Location: Granada, Andalusia

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby chi chi » Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:34 pm

teamoperu wrote:Wow chi chi. You live in Peru on unemployment benefits from Belgium, travel often to the USA, if I remember own a home here, amazing. Will Peruvians who go to Belgium be able to work such a sweet deal too?


Walk into any unemployment office in Belgium and you will notice that a lot of people standing in line to register for unemployment benefits are foreign. In some districts, 90% of people registered at the unemployment office are foreign. Whereof most of them from outside the Europe.

Also people from outside the EU get priority on the waiting list for social housing.

Cheating on wellfare will soon be easier as according to EU law, putting restrictions on wellfare payment is against the freedom of movement within EU.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ne ... 68254.html
pistachio
Member
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:35 am

Re: Probably millions of Peruvians will leave the country in2015

Postby pistachio » Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:55 am

for NickyJo...............

I am an Expat from the States living in Trujillo for almost 2 years now and having visited Peru many time prior........
The Social Strata Bandwidth here is very wide - the poor living in absolutely the barest conditions and the middle classes living in the more populated areas and cities - Lima, Trujillo, Piura, Chiclayo, Chimbote and others.
At the low end life quality is very low,,, no plumbing, electric, potable water, and on......and life in the cities may not be first world but affords the minimal life sustaining qualities.....
Oftentimes Peru is called an emerging nation or a developing country and this is true but only to certain extent.
Notice that each of the above calling are future tense and it will in time live up to a higher standard but to say in the PRESENT TENSE it is more accurate to say that Peru is a Third World country......
Now, this is not a judgement call on my part but lives up to the definition of a 3rd world country stated by others.
Peru is growing and economically doing very well still this does not allow for a sudden rise in the quality of life for the poor. The poor here remain poor and there are few if any ways out of this condition for them.
Education here is limited, there is a lack of roads and rail, there are no truancy laws or if any exist they are not enforced....and there are no building codes so anything goes in the creation of a 'house' on land that is usually invaded or squatted upon with no ownership other than 'possession'
So,,,, there is a vast difference from the city dwellers to the people out on the fringes and beyond.
I am stating my observations and make no claims about social expertise in my comments. And, I am here by choice and I plan on staying so I am not harshly criticizing the country. Peru has its charms and good qualities.... but life for the poor here and although they accept and make the best of it.. it is not so good by any standard.............
I know that I am astonished to see so many things remain in such bad shape when there are easy fixes but yet nothing happens.....
I cannot say that life for Peruvians is better now than 50, 100 or 500 years ago......
To Add.... the activities that would influence the statistics saying that Peru is doing Great Economically have not much to do with how Peru is doing Socially !
Agricultural products are largely Exported... and who exports - Large Companies. Large companies make and keep profits / the worker get nada.
Mining is a major enterprise here and account for the high statistics / it is Foreign Investment that runs and owns that effort so where do you think the profits go... and who do you think is left with nada !
Tourism is important to Peru.....bringing green cash to participants but this does not foster social change.
There is no real industry here.... and nothing essential is manufactured here for use here or exportation.
Remember, in 1934, the Chrysler and Empire State building were built in the states.... here in 2014 there is still construction with adobe and at best no Steel skeleton building to speak of,,, just concrete columns with steel rebar reinforcing and brick and cement at best only 10 stories high and I wonder of there stress bearing capabilities.....
Water from the sink here is not drinkable....it must be boiled and still I wonder.
Hot water is not typical at all sinks in a house.....
Hygiene is a guess and if an FDA inspector would visit a Central Market it would be closed immediately.
If a State Cop would check trucks and cars for safety / 90% of the cars and trucks would be impounded and grounded where they stand.......
Yeah,,, so I just wanted to share some of my observations and experiences with you .....
and please do not misunderstand,, I live here and am happy living here........

Return to “Expat Conversations”

Login  •  Register