Down on Peru...

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clewis564
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Down on Peru...

Postby clewis564 » Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:03 pm

It seems to me that there are alot on these boards that are so down on Peru. I wonder why they live there as expats if this is so. They say don't move to Peru, there's no jobs, people are lazy or dishonest, don't think of starting a business here, cost of living is too high. Why not move to another country if Peru is so bad? Why so down on Peru? I see more negative about it than positive. True, I have only visited Lima twice and don't live there I really love it. I'm thinking of moving there for awhile. I am positive and think eventually I'll be successful no matter where I move. Just wondering what people's thoughts are.
Last edited by clewis564 on Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby teamoperu » Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:05 pm

You make a valid point. I've noticed it too. FYI I have tried my best to correct blatantly false negative information here, but a few spew it out incessantly. I have also tried a few threads that highlight the positives, but not surprisingly the few just spew out more misinformation on them too.

(search "living the good life" where some of the positives are highlighted).
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Guiri
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby Guiri » Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:08 am

Lets be honest...even Limenos wouldnt live here if they had to :lol: ...Peru is a wonderful country for tourists, people with money or people who work for foreign companies...other than that you are screwed!
Everybody knows that but nobody wants to say it :D
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby panman » Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:00 am

Guiri wrote:Lets be honest...even Limenos wouldnt live here if they had to :lol: ...Peru is a wonderful country for tourists, people with money or people who work for foreign companies...other than that you are screwed!
Everybody knows that but nobody wants to say it :D

So please tell us all.
Why are you here? :lol:
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby chi chi » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:08 am

Guiri wrote:Lets be honest...even Limenos wouldnt live here if they had to :lol: ...Peru is a wonderful country for tourists, people with money or people who work for foreign companies...other than that you are screwed!
Everybody knows that but nobody wants to say it :D


Peru is one of the most interesting countries in the world to visit, it has all kinds of climates and landscapes.
The are georgeous beaches, huge mountains, deserts, beautifull lakes and the magnificent Amazon forest. Prices are reasonable if you are travelling from abroad.

You can live well in Peru but you must arrive here with money. Making money in Peru is very tough and prices are rising quickly.
I am spending twice as much now than when I arrived here 5 years ago.

Wages are lousy and many things costs the same or even more than in Europe or the US.

If you compare the cost of living vs. the wages then it even gets worser.

My gf and I are now in New York. I work as a chef making $80 a day. My gf works as a waitress. She makes $120 a day. If we did the same jobs in Peru, we would make around $12 a day. That's 8 times less than in the US. But the costs of living in the US isn't 8 times higher than in Peru. We buy fruit and veg from the foodstalls and shops where the Latinos shop and the prices are almost the same as in Peru.


The reason why many expats complain is because they have been in Peru for some time and they have seen things changing. Crime is going up, cost of living is going up, it's harder to find a job or start up a business.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby chi chi » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:21 am

One of the reasons why people choose to live in Peru is because of the easy visa requirements. People from the US, Europe, Canada and many other countries don't need to apply for a visa beforehand but get a visa upon arrival. You can even get a 183 days visa stamp. Most countries only give a máximum of 90 days.

And you can stay here as a tourist indefinately. There are people who have been living here on tourist visas for years. You just borderhop every 6 months and get another 6 months.
In some countries like the US, you can only extend your visa twice and only stay in the country for up to 180 days a year.

Overstaying your tourist visa isn't a problem either. When you eventually leave the country, you just have to pay a $1 fine for everyday that you have overstayed and you won't have any problem when you come back.

I once overstayed 611 days and another time 83 days. In both cases, I came back to Peru after a few days and had no problems at all in getting another 183 days stamp.

In many countries, if you only overstay by one day, you will be banned from re-entering the country for a long time or sometimes even indefinately.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby teamoperu » Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:03 am

See? Didn't take long at all for Negativity to post. Peru is a great place, great food, great people, great scenery. Most Peruvians I know are a pretty hard working happy bunch and not dreaming about leaving their family ties. I'd rather be with them enjoying the good life than listening to negative expats anytime.

Ya know, I've been to a lot of countries. People ask me why I like Peru so much? My answer is I feel comfortable here, I did from the first moment. Can't entirely explain that, it seems to be intangible. But interesting even other posters, even negative ones here as above say the same thing. Gringito recently stated “However, when I traveled to Tarapota two weeks ago, I must admit that it was love at the first sight!!!” and chi chi responded “It happened to me as well. When I visit a new place then in the beginning I feel a bit lost and an outsider. But the first time I visited Tarapoto, I immediatelly felt at home.”
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby Guiri » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:11 am

panman wrote:
Guiri wrote:Lets be honest...even Limenos wouldnt live here if they had to :lol: ...Peru is a wonderful country for tourists, people with money or people who work for foreign companies...other than that you are screwed!
Everybody knows that but nobody wants to say it :D

So please tell us all.
Why are you here? :lol:

For the money , of course. :D
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby chi chi » Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:19 pm

teamoperu wrote:Ya know, I've been to a lot of countries. People ask me why I like Peru so much? My answer is I feel comfortable here, I did from the first moment. Can't entirely explain that, it seems to be intangible. But interesting even other posters, even negative ones here as above say the same thing. Gringito recently stated “However, when I traveled to Tarapota two weeks ago, I must admit that it was love at the first sight!!!” and chi chi responded “It happened to me as well. When I visit a new place then in the beginning I feel a bit lost and an outsider. But the first time I visited Tarapoto, I immediatelly felt at home.”


That's the advantage of Peru. No place is the same. If you like cold weather you move South, if you like hot weather you move North.
You like beaches then stay at the coast, you like to live in a place like the Sahara then move to Ica, if you like trees, exotic animals (and girls :D :D) then move to La Selva, if you like mountains then move to the central áreas, if you are a fan of lakes then move to Puno.

There's something for everybody.

Even food differs from región to región.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby KenBE » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:18 pm

Things I like about Peru:

-Food, especially the seafood (ceviche, etc.)
-Music (big fan of Peruvian cumbia)
-Nightlife
-The general atmosphere of the cities.
-Lots of cool and interesting places to visit
-Lots of things are cheaper (not everything, I know)

Things I don't like:

-Crime
-Some cultural differences
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby chi chi » Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:07 pm

KenBE wrote:-Music (big fan of Peruvian cumbia)


Cumbia from La Selva indeed very cool.

My favourite: (filmed at Tarapoto international airport)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH4kOafuFWc

Some more nice songs:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH4kOafuFWc (filmed at the tunnel just outside Tarapoto)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lSuNrilHhM (filmed in downtown Tarapoto)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78okbl9-UZQ
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby KenBE » Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:27 pm

chi chi wrote:
KenBE wrote:-Music (big fan of Peruvian cumbia)


Cumbia from La Selva indeed very cool.

My favourite: (filmed at Tarapoto international airport)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH4kOafuFWc

Some more nice songs:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH4kOafuFWc (filmed at the tunnel just outside Tarapoto)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lSuNrilHhM (filmed in downtown Tarapoto)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78okbl9-UZQ


Nice. Here's another song by Sonido 2000 that I like:



Another good one from Tarapoto:



Here another one I like from la Selva (Iquitos)

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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby chi chi » Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:33 pm

My gf doesn't like Cumbia. She says that Cumbia is music for borrachos.

She's right about that because many songs are about Chelas and drinking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA7clmIIkk4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLm9ZIpwUng

I love to listen to this song on my i-pod when I drive around drunk on my motorbike:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icvfrlCQbxI
Last edited by chi chi on Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby chi chi » Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:43 pm

This is one of the most popular ones:

It's probably more popular then the national anthem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI7YOSaFxUM
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby gringito » Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:49 pm

clewis564 wrote:True, I have only visited Lima twice and don't live there I really love it. I'm thinking of moving there for awhile.

During vacation or, in general, as a tourist nearly every place in the world is great.

Guiri wrote:Lets be honest...even Limenos wouldnt live here if they had to :lol: ...Peru is a wonderful country for tourists, people with money or people who work for foreign companies...other than that you are screwed!
Everybody knows that but nobody wants to say it :D

Frankly speaking: I agree!

Many expats I personally know live in Peru because their partner is Peruvian and it is/was import for the Peruvian partner to be close to her/his family.
Moreover, if you have a child with a Peruvian partner, things become even more complicated…in particular when your relationship gets complicating. Peruvian laws clearly disadvantage the foreign parent. I you want to see your child you will stay in Peru. This is just one example.

Peruvian bureaucracy is a nightmare.
Peruvian politics is a nightmare. You may have heard of the nice word “narco congresistas”…and there is a reason for this… If you frequently read the newspapers your impression will worsen.
Many Peruvians are not reliable (sorry folks!). While this does not matter that much for acquaintanceship it will drive you crazy if you have to do business or have to rely on somebody or are simply not used to it.
Police, the justice system and politics are corrupt to the bones!
Nothing really works in Peru…which means you have to like improvisation.
Everything takes 3 to 5 times longer than you, the gringo, are used to.
Social development and educational achievement in Peru are at least 50 years behind Europe or the USA.
The health care system is antiquated.
Last year, precisely 5 patents have been granted in Peru. Check how many were granted in German, Japan, the USA etc.
Salaries are extremely low. Therefore, many people need 3 jobs to survive.
There are 3 main industries in Peru: 1) mining&oil/gas; 2) agribusiness; and 3) Coca/coke. The rest is insignificant, even Peru´s praised textile industry.
Infrastructure is poor; Export is expensive; transport is expensive;
Real estate prices are high, in particular for commercial property.
Working conditions are poor.
Crime rate is high.
Pollution in Lima is under the top ten worldwide.
Environmental protection is practically inexistent.
Consumer protection is practically inexistent (oh…sure… INDECOPI exists…)

Sure, as a tourist having a hotel in Miraflores or Barranca…Peru is AWESOME, the chicks are great, the Pisco Sour as well... and you can put on your rose-colored glasses...
If you live here…YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN !!!

chi chi wrote:One of the reasons why people choose to live in Peru is because of the easy visa requirements.

And you can stay here as a tourist indefinately. There are people who have been living here on tourist visas for years. You just borderhop every 6 months and get another 6 months.
In some countries like the US, you can only extend your visa twice and only stay in the country for up to 180 days a year.

Overstaying your tourist visa isn't a problem either. When you eventually leave the country, you just have to pay a $1 fine for everyday that you have overstayed and you won't have any problem when you come back.

It might be of interest that the day before yesterday Peruvian authorities have expelled 42 foreigners, among them US, israelí and austrian citizens whose tourist visa had expired. Naturally, the 1$-regulation is still in force. However, Peruvian authorities said these people were hippies/mendicant and a danger (…) to Peruvian society.

Apart from that, in the legislative period of Peruvian president Ollanta Humala (he was a close friend of Hugo Chavez…), Peruvian Aliens Laws have continuously been tightened.
It is heard that quite soon you can say goodbye to the 1$-regulation, 183 days tourist visa and, in particular, to border hopping. Furthermore, it is heard that the max. duration of stay will be limited to 183 PER YEAR.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby KenBE » Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:59 pm

chi chi wrote:My gf doesn't like Cumbia. She says that Cumbia is music for borrachos.

She's right about that because many songs are about Chelas and drinking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA7clmIIkk4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLm9ZIpwUng

I love to listen to this song on my i-pod when I drive around drunk on my motorbike:
I love drunk driving. It's really cool. 8)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icvfrlCQbxI


LOL! She sounds like my ex girlfriend. She didn't like cumbia either.

I have posted some of these before in the music thread, but these are my all time favorite Peruvian cumbia songs:




(this guy is from Chile but the song is Peruvian)



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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby chi chi » Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:59 pm

gringito wrote:It might be of interest that the day before yesterday Peruvian authorities have expelled 42 foreigners, among them US, israelí and austrian citizens whose tourist visa had expired. Naturally, the 1$-regulation is still in force. However, Peruvian authorities said these people were hippies/mendicant and a danger (…) to Peruvian society.


They were indigent. They had no money to support themselves. In Tarapoto, there are some of them and they busk at traffic lights. They are a danger to the traffic and they have low personal hygiene standards. They could spread diseases.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby KenBE » Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:20 pm



Oh yeah I like that one too :D . Here is the Colombian cover :lol: :

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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby gringito » Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:26 pm

chi chi wrote:
gringito wrote:It might be of interest that the day before yesterday Peruvian authorities have expelled 42 foreigners, among them US, israelí and austrian citizens whose tourist visa had expired. Naturally, the 1$-regulation is still in force. However, Peruvian authorities said these people were hippies/mendicant and a danger (…) to Peruvian society.


They were indigent. They had no money to support themselves. In Tarapoto, there are some of them and they busk at traffic lights. They are a danger to the traffic and they have low personal hygiene standards. They could spread diseases.

I am really far away from fraternizing with these people...but this is....
ok...
Returning to "Down on Peru":
Many, many Peruvians ARE indigent and HAVE to live under low personal hygiene standards.
Furthermore, I cannot get rid of the feeling that while 97% of Peruvian toilets lack toilet paper, 95% of Peruvian toilets have (extremely) low hygiene standards and spread diseases...and I don´t know how many kitchens of how many restaurants have terribly low hygiene standards (at least I get already sick when I see them...)
but....
nothing happens.
So what?
Ah...ok... one of it is foreign. I understand...
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby chi chi » Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:07 am

gringito wrote:Many, many Peruvians ARE indigent and HAVE to live under low personal hygiene standards.
Furthermore, I cannot get rid of the feeling that while 97% of Peruvian toilets lack toilet paper, 95% of Peruvian toilets have (extremely) low hygiene standards and spread diseases...and I don´t know how many kitchens of how many restaurants have terribly low hygiene standards (at least I get already sick when I see them...)
but....
nothing happens.
So what?
Ah...ok... one of it is foreign. I understand...


I think that poor Peruvians are cleaner than poor Europeans and poor Americans.

When I took combis and buses in Peru, I rarely had to change seats because someone came to sit next, behind or in front of me and stunk so much that I had to change seat.

But now I am in New York, almost daily I have to change seat in the Subway or on the bus because someone with a bad body odor sits next to me.

In Tarapoto, almost all people shower daily because of the hot weather. And there's no excuse for not showering. I doesn't cost anything. Many people wash themselves and their clothes in the river.

But I encounterd many backpacker gringos that smell awfull. Like they didn't shower for ages.
A friend of mine runs a refrigerio at the mercado in downtown Tarapoto and she refuses to serve smelly gringos but it scares her regular customers off.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby teamoperu » Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:53 am

gringito wrote:
clewis564 wrote:True, I have only visited Lima twice and don't live there I really love it. I'm thinking of moving there for awhile.

During vacation or, in general, as a tourist nearly every place in the world is great.

Guiri wrote:Lets be honest...even Limenos wouldnt live here if they had to :lol: ...Peru is a wonderful country for tourists, people with money or people who work for foreign companies...other than that you are screwed!
Everybody knows that but nobody wants to say it :D

Frankly speaking: I agree!

Many expats I personally know live in Peru because their partner is Peruvian and it is/was import for the Peruvian partner to be close to her/his family.
Moreover, if you have a child with a Peruvian partner, things become even more complicated…in particular when your relationship gets complicating. Peruvian laws clearly disadvantage the foreign parent. I you want to see your child you will stay in Peru. This is just one example.

Peruvian bureaucracy is a nightmare.
Peruvian politics is a nightmare. You may have heard of the nice word “narco congresistas”…and there is a reason for this… If you frequently read the newspapers your impression will worsen.
Many Peruvians are not reliable (sorry folks!). While this does not matter that much for acquaintanceship it will drive you crazy if you have to do business or have to rely on somebody or are simply not used to it.
Police, the justice system and politics are corrupt to the bones!
Nothing really works in Peru…which means you have to like improvisation.
Everything takes 3 to 5 times longer than you, the gringo, are used to.
Social development and educational achievement in Peru are at least 50 years behind Europe or the USA.
The health care system is antiquated.
Last year, precisely 5 patents have been granted in Peru. Check how many were granted in German, Japan, the USA etc.
Salaries are extremely low. Therefore, many people need 3 jobs to survive.
There are 3 main industries in Peru: 1) mining&oil/gas; 2) agribusiness; and 3) Coca/coke. The rest is insignificant, even Peru´s praised textile industry.
Infrastructure is poor; Export is expensive; transport is expensive;
Real estate prices are high, in particular for commercial property.
Working conditions are poor.
Crime rate is high.
Pollution in Lima is under the top ten worldwide.
Environmental protection is practically inexistent.
Consumer protection is practically inexistent (oh…sure… INDECOPI exists…)

Sure, as a tourist having a hotel in Miraflores or Barranca…Peru is AWESOME, the chicks are great, the Pisco Sour as well... and you can put on your rose-colored glasses...
If you live here…YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN !!!

chi chi wrote:One of the reasons why people choose to live in Peru is because of the easy visa requirements.

And you can stay here as a tourist indefinately. There are people who have been living here on tourist visas for years. You just borderhop every 6 months and get another 6 months.
In some countries like the US, you can only extend your visa twice and only stay in the country for up to 180 days a year.

Overstaying your tourist visa isn't a problem either. When you eventually leave the country, you just have to pay a $1 fine for everyday that you have overstayed and you won't have any problem when you come back.

It might be of interest that the day before yesterday Peruvian authorities have expelled 42 foreigners, among them US, israelí and austrian citizens whose tourist visa had expired. Naturally, the 1$-regulation is still in force. However, Peruvian authorities said these people were hippies/mendicant and a danger (…) to Peruvian society.

Apart from that, in the legislative period of Peruvian president Ollanta Humala (he was a close friend of Hugo Chavez…), Peruvian Aliens Laws have continuously been tightened.
It is heard that quite soon you can say goodbye to the 1$-regulation, 183 days tourist visa and, in particular, to border hopping. Furthermore, it is heard that the max. duration of stay will be limited to 183 PER YEAR.


Wow, you must be such a ray of sunshine in the lives of people around you with those views.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby chi chi » Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:20 am

teamoperu wrote:Wow, you must be such a ray of sunshine in the lives of people around you with those views.


Mate, it's the cold hard truth.

I try to concéntrate on the positive things in life and ignore the bad things.

I live from day to day. You can't change yesterday and you can't predict what's going to happen tommorow. Today is when it all happens.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby panman » Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:09 am

[quote="chi chi"
I encounterd many backpacker gringos that smell awfull. Like they didn't shower for ages.
A friend of mine runs a refrigerio at the mercado in downtown Tarapoto and she refuses to serve smelly gringos but it scares her regular customers off.[/quote]
They do often stink.
I had to sit next to next to a dirty, filthy backpacker on a full flight between Lima and Amsterdam. The guy was rancid.
I complained, both verbally and in writing, that he shouldn't have been allowed on the plane, unfortunately complaining to KLM is like P***ing into the wind which, from the smell, is probably what the guy sat next to me had been doing for the past weeks.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby chi chi » Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:45 am

panman wrote:They do often stink.
I had to sit next to next to a dirty, filthy backpacker on a full flight between Lima and Amsterdam. The guy was rancid.
I complained, both verbally and in writing, that he shouldn't have been allowed on the plane, unfortunately complaining to KLM is like P***ing into the wind which, from the smell, is probably what the guy sat next to me had been doing for the past weeks.


:lol:

Next time you fly, carry ''Vicks'' with you and smear that in your nose. It's a trick that flight attendants often use. I always carried Vicks with me when I was working as a flight attendant.

On long haul flights, passengers their breath smells awfull when they wake up a few hours before landing and I had to go through the cabin to serve their breakfast. Flights to Africa, India and Bangladesh were worst case scenario when it came to smelly passengers. But equally where the chárter flights to Ibiza, Barcelona and the Canary Islands full of British 'lager louts'.

In the US, people that stink too much often get refused to board by the airlines. 8) But I never heard of that happening in Europe. :(
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby TShadow » Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:13 pm

@teamperu - gringito simply has his eyes wide open and see it from a realistic point of view. Your view obviously seem to be different, but reality is not.

Most of the expats we know are seeing it in the same way, especially when you're out of your puberty and displaced or lost you pink glasses.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby mammamia » Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:30 pm

Absolutely, Peru is a nice place to visit, but not for everyone either, I'd prefer places like Prague, Dresden, Copenhagen, Tallinn - not too big, not too noisy and, of course, not too filthy. I was never attracted to places like Peru, India, Egypt - lots of scenery with minimum of comfort. I live and work in Peru just because my wife doesn't wanna move to a colder climate environment.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby chi chi » Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:03 pm

mammamia wrote:I live and work in Peru just because my wife doesn't wanna move to a colder climate environment.


Move to Spain. Nice climate in the South and very affordable to live. For around 250 euros a month, you can rent a nice furnished flat. Cost of living is almost the same as in Peru.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby mammamia » Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:42 pm

chi chi wrote:[

Move to Spain. Nice climate in the South and very affordable to live. For around 250 euros a month, you can rent a nice furnished flat. Cost of living is almost the same as in Peru.


It may sound funny but we tried that back in 2011. What I can say is that Spain is a mess in terms of paperwork and immigration regulation, let alone its economic woes! The minimum investment requirement for the investor's visa is OK compared to other EU countries (around 100K) BUT that's the only advantage. The wait for the visa is too long- 8-12 months and nobody can guarantee you that in the long run you'll be granted it. According to our lawyer only 20-25% of all applicants are granted the visa and the funniest thing is that one has to invest the amount in a business before he/she applies for the visa.

So, we are still in Peru.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby teamoperu » Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:15 pm

TShadow wrote:@teamperu - gringito simply has his eyes wide open and see it from a realistic point of view. Your view obviously seem to be different, but reality is not.

Most of the expats we know are seeing it in the same way, especially when you're out of your puberty and displaced or lost you pink glasses.


Another ray of sunshine to brighten the lives of people around you, oh joy! And most expats you know too, oh joy. Must be fun to share a beer with you'all and listen to you moan and complain. I will repeat the question the OP asked: "Why not move to another country if Peru is so bad?" or is it better to stay and complain?

I used to think expats were/are a special bunch of open-minded risk-takers. You know, packing up and moving to a different country, a different culture. I would think if Peru is so bad they could risk-take a move to a far better place... after all they moved once to be an expat here, so I guess they could man up and admit their mistake and try somewhere else?

Me, I will enjoy the good life here, enjoy my second puberty with my rose colored glasses.

If you need any help finding a ticket ex-Peru, I'd be glad to come to your assistance... as long as you don't whine about the rip off price of tickets.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby Sergio Bernales » Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:20 pm

mammamia wrote:
chi chi wrote:[

Move to Spain. Nice climate in the South and very affordable to live. For around 250 euros a month, you can rent a nice furnished flat. Cost of living is almost the same as in Peru.


It may sound funny but we tried that back in 2011. What I can say is that Spain is a mess in terms of paperwork and immigration regulation, let alone its economic woes! The minimum investment requirement for the investor's visa is OK compared to other EU countries (around 100K) BUT that's the only advantage. The wait for the visa is too long- 8-12 months and nobody can guarantee you that in the long run you'll be granted it. According to our lawyer only 20-25% of all applicants are granted the visa and the funniest thing is that one has to invest the amount in a business before he/she applies for the visa.

So, we are still in Peru.


I understand from what you're saying you must not be European, because anyone in the EU can enter and live in Spain quite freely. Difficult to claim benefits though - unless you're Belgian and can get them sent over. And starting a business is not as easy as in the UK. There's always Italy. They seem to let anyone in there, but you don't get any paperwork.

If you're American, Canadian, Australian, a New Zealander or a South African and any one of your grandparents was born in the UK, or any other part of Europe, you could be entitled to an EU passport, which means you can settle in Spain no problem.

By the way, lots of Peruvians whose grandparents were of European descent are entitled to EU passports, so that's an option unless your wife is of indigenous origin, or if she has European ancestors that arrived in the distant past with Pizarro and his gang of cut-throat thieves.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby Sergio Bernales » Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:39 pm

A lot of negativity I feel here seems to come from two things, firstly, people complain because it not like home. Secondly, Peru's got way too expensive in recent years and they feel they can't afford to live here, or at least in a style that they would be happy with. I think there's a lot of validity to both these complaints.

Regarding the first, if you're from Northern Europe or the States, Peru can take a lot of getting used to, but for many that's what makes it exciting, the fact it is different and some of these differences are for the better. And Peruvians can be filled with charm and optimism - apart from things like the mad drivers on the roads, driving through shanty towns, the amount of pickpockets and shoddy products in Sodimac/Maestro. If you don't like these things, then almost no developing country will be good for you. You're going to be happiest in somewhere like your home town. But if you've got an open mind, you can get used to these things, especially if you can find your niche here and make a bit of money, have a great partner. That can be a great and exciting life for many people bored of their daily commutes in cold northern cities. But not for all. And that leads me to the second thing.

Five to ten years ago, when Europe and the States was in the middle of an economic boom and the currencies were strong, Peru was still a very cheap destination and still economically mismanaged. Many expats who came here found they could get by on very little money - and when I say get by, I do mean buy a nice and large apartment with at least two bedrooms in a nice area of town, eat out at nice restaurants, take nice trips all over the country and staying in clean, safe inexpensive hotels. But In my time here, all these things have changed. Things have got more expensive, the dollar, the euro and the pound have all dropped in value, while in Peru things like houses and supermarkets have got a lot more expensive. So all of a sudden, it's not a financial paradise for those looking for a bargain. Our foreign currencies buy less and Peruvian prices have gone up - it's a double whammy, especially as for jobs like English teachers, the pay wasn't that much different to what it is today.

I knew of two-bedroom flats in nice parts of Surco that sold for less $25,000 dollars that now sell for well over $100,000. After a trip to Europe or the States, I look at the prices of some things in Wong and Plaza Vea and Tottus and think, that would be a third of the price for something of better quality and there would be more choice. And yes because of the lack of competition and less economies of scales, Peruvians do pay way too much for a lot of things we pay very little for. Imagine if Ikea were here, I think Sodimac and Maestro would be out of business in weeks. Or if Walmart came and had the same level of prices as it does in the States, how long would the Peruvian supermarkets survive.

However, living in Peru these days for some has actually got a lot better. For those that have a steady and reasonably good income, either if they are in a specialist profession in Peru, like engineering, or have a pension, or a foreign income from the States or Europe, the bargains may have gone, but there is now much more choice, many more restaurants and shops and many more things to buy in these shops. There's now a large choice of hotels, different brands of cars, things you just couldn't buy five or ten years ago. For those that bought their home here five or six years ago and have a good Western income, life is probably sweeter than ever in Peru. It's just got tougher for the newcomers who have to rely on Peruvian wages.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby chi chi » Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:17 am

Sergio Bernales wrote: Difficult to claim benefits though - unless you're Belgian and can get them sent over.


You can receive your benefits abroad up to 3 months and then you get get the local unemployment benefits if you still didn't have found a job. But I've never heard that they check it out if you have returned or not after 3 months because you must keep your address in your homecountry. So, even when you leave without informing your wellfare office that you are going to look for a job abroad, they won't find that out.

''Viva el EU''

Sergio Bernales wrote:Five to ten years ago, when Europe and the States was in the middle of an economic boom and the currencies were strong, Peru was still a very cheap destination and still economically mismanaged. Many expats who came here found they could get by on very little money - and when I say get by, I do mean buy a nice and large apartment with at least two bedrooms in a nice area of town, eat out at nice restaurants, take nice trips all over the country and staying in clean, safe inexpensive hotels. But In my time here, all these things have changed. Things have got more expensive, the dollar, the euro and the pound have all dropped in value, while in Peru things like houses and supermarkets have got a lot more expensive. So all of a sudden, it's not a financial paradise for those looking for a bargain. Our foreign currencies buy less and Peruvian prices have gone up.


Indeed, five years ago, I lived off 600 soles a month. Now, I spend 1200 a month and I am still buying the same products and doing the same things.

Sergio Bernales wrote:Imagine if Ikea were here, I think Sodimac and Maestro would be out of business in weeks. Or if Walmart came and had the same level of prices as it does in the States, how long would the Peruvian supermarkets survive.


Or even worser (for the Peruvian supermarkets) if LIDL and ALDI come to Peru.

Worst case scenario for the Peruvian airlines: RYANAIR :evil: :evil: :evil:
Imagine flying from Lima to Tarapoto for $10 instead of the $75 you are paying now.

Ryanair will even wipe out the buscompanies like CIVA, Cruz Del Sur and Moviltours.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby gringito » Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:24 pm

Sergio Bernales wrote:Imagine if Ikea were here, I think Sodimac and Maestro would be out of business in weeks. Or if Walmart came and had the same level of prices as it does in the States, how long would the Peruvian supermarkets survive.

chi chi wrote:Or even worser (for the Peruvian supermarkets) if LIDL and ALDI come to Peru.

This is precisely what is missing in Peru: a sufficient number of sufficiently strong competitors. The existing companies here in Peru practically have a monopoly and can dictate the prices. This goes hand in hand with the Peruvian customer mentality, i.e. many Peruvian accept practically everything and never complain - at least not publically and/or officially...
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby Sergio Bernales » Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:21 am

gringito wrote:
Sergio Bernales wrote:Imagine if Ikea were here, I think Sodimac and Maestro would be out of business in weeks. Or if Walmart came and had the same level of prices as it does in the States, how long would the Peruvian supermarkets survive.

chi chi wrote:Or even worser (for the Peruvian supermarkets) if LIDL and ALDI come to Peru.

This is precisely what is missing in Peru: a sufficient number of sufficiently strong competitors. The existing companies here in Peru practically have a monopoly and can dictate the prices. This goes hand in hand with the Peruvian customer mentality, i.e. many Peruvian accept practically everything and never complain - at least not publically and/or officially...


To Chichi and Gringito, yeah, we need companies like that over here, not just for our own selfish ends, but for the millions of Peruvians who work on low wages and could really benefit from being able to buy quality products at a fraction of the price they pay now.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby chi chi » Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:15 pm

gringito wrote:This is precisely what is missing in Peru: a sufficient number of sufficiently strong competitors. The existing companies here in Peru practically have a monopoly and can dictate the prices. This goes hand in hand with the Peruvian customer mentality, i.e. many Peruvian accept practically everything and never complain - at least not publically and/or officially...


There isn't a lot what ordinary Peruvians can do. There isn't a strong government body that protects the consumer rights and enforces fair trading standards.

Same with the banks, they charge a lot of transaction fees and only give you minimal interest on your saving.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby ironchefchris » Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:45 pm

I wonder if these particular stores, if they ever did make it to Peru, would retain the price structures they currently have in other countries. Taxes, import duties, and other Peruvian financial "red tape" or regulations might cause them to raise prices considerably over what they charge in Europe. Even without, it wouldn't make sense for these stores to charge drastically less for goods when they can sell the same amount of goods and raise profits by only lowering the price a bit. If item X costs S/. 20 in most other current stores why would they lower the price to S/.10 (if they could) when all they'd have to do to be competitive is lower the price to S/. 19 or 18 to steal customers from the current stores? I think it would take the introduction of more than just one major competitor for prices to significantly drop in Peru. There needs to be sufficient competition for consumers to see lower prices, otherwise all any newcomer to the market has to do is lower their prices by a very small amount to capture greater market share. I myself would like to see Trader Joe's in Peru, but they're really not big enough to affect the market - I just like some of what they sell.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby teamoperu » Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:51 pm

Not sure about it all, but for sure more complicated than we might think. Sodimac (Falla) just bought out Maestro. But to add a thought. Competition in Peru takes all shapes and sizes. Indeed, LAN competes with the buses and even advertizes it as such. LIM-TRU for $48 (+) rtn LIM-PIU $69 (+) rtn is competing with bus-camas.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby nightowl9 » Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:23 pm

ironchefchris wrote:I wonder if these particular stores, if they ever did make it to Peru, would retain the price structures they currently have in other countries. Taxes, import duties, and other Peruvian financial "red tape" or regulations might cause them to raise prices considerably over what they charge in Europe. Even without, it wouldn't make sense for these stores to charge drastically less for goods when they can sell the same amount of goods and raise profits by only lowering the price a bit. If item X costs S/. 20 in most other current stores why would they lower the price to S/.10 (if they could) when all they'd have to do to be competitive is lower the price to S/. 19 or 18 to steal customers from the current stores? I think it would take the introduction of more than just one major competitor for prices to significantly drop in Peru. There needs to be sufficient competition for consumers to see lower prices, otherwise all any newcomer to the market has to do is lower their prices by a very small amount to capture greater market share. I myself would like to see Trader Joe's in Peru, but they're really not big enough to affect the market - I just like some of what they sell.



What does TJ have that Peruvian stores don't?
Yuppies.
And Two Buck Chuck.
I'm guessing that's one of the things you like that they sell.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby ironchefchris » Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:58 pm

Never was into the 2 buck Chuck. Way way back in the day I used to buy the almost as cheap Eggers Bull's Blood. Long ago I moved on and upgraded to $10 bottles of wine. Still cheap, but far more flavorful. Found a good 2x1 deal here on a nice Chilean red at my local market that costs about $10 for both bottles. What does TJ's have that stores in Peru don't? Cheaper (often drastically cheaper) vitamins and supplements, higher quality and cheaper products such as organic shampoos and conditioner (large bottles of 'organix' brand for about $5 where a small bottle less than half the size of the same costs S/.38 in Tottus or Plaza Vea) peanut butter far cheaper and more nutritious than the expensive sugar laden varieties in Peru, more variety and better prices on imported beers, cheaper priced imported cheeses such as pecorino and other European cheeses, cheaper priced sugar-free organic yogurt that doesn't taste like an artificially flavored sweet drink, and I'm sure several other items that compare favorably as far as price and quality as to what's available in Peru. Of course not everything is of better quality or lower priced (Quinoa, kiwichi, etc.), but I wouldn't mind having access to the things that are. Where are you from that your TJ's was overun with yuppies? The ones where I've lived always had far more hipsters and hippies than Yuppies as customers. Maybe you lived in an area with a high concentration of Yuppies?

Maybe chi chi or someone else with more knowledge than I have of LIDL or ALDI will post some items those stores carry that they'd like to see in Peru that have better quality and/or prices than their Peruvian counterparts.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby Alpineprince » Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:36 pm

teamoperu wrote:See? Didn't take long at all for Negativity to post. Peru is a great place, great food, great people, great scenery. Most Peruvians I know are a pretty hard working happy bunch and not dreaming about leaving their family ties. I'd rather be with them enjoying the good life than listening to negative expats anytime.

Ya know, I've been to a lot of countries. People ask me why I like Peru so much? My answer is I feel comfortable here, I did from the first moment. Can't entirely explain that, it seems to be intangible. But interesting even other posters, even negative ones here as above say the same thing. Gringito recently stated “However, when I traveled to Tarapota two weeks ago, I must admit that it was love at the first sight!!!” and chi chi responded “It happened to me as well. When I visit a new place then in the beginning I feel a bit lost and an outsider. But the first time I visited Tarapoto, I immediatelly felt at home.”

+1
Been here for 11 years and it has always felt like home, could not imagine living in NYC again!
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby chi chi » Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:30 am

ironchefchris wrote:Maybe chi chi or someone else with more knowledge than I have of LIDL or ALDI will post some items those stores carry that they'd like to see in Peru that have better quality and/or prices than their Peruvian counterparts.


They sell a large selection of cheeses and wines for a fraction of the prices that Peruvian supermarkets charge.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby KenBE » Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:17 am

chi chi wrote:
ironchefchris wrote:Maybe chi chi or someone else with more knowledge than I have of LIDL or ALDI will post some items those stores carry that they'd like to see in Peru that have better quality and/or prices than their Peruvian counterparts.


They sell a large selection of cheeses and wines for a fraction of the prices that Peruvian supermarkets charge.


That is true, but a lot of things are cheaper in Peruvian supermarkets as well. If you want to live cheaply in Peru you have to eat like a Peruvian and not buy a lot of imported stuff. I lived quite cheaply in Peru and shopped at Tottus and Plaza Vea all the time.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby chi chi » Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:45 pm

KenBE wrote:That is true, but a lot of things are cheaper in Peruvian supermarkets as well. If you want to live cheaply in Peru you have to eat like a Peruvian and not buy a lot of imported stuff. I lived quite cheaply in Peru and shopped at Tottus and Plaza Vea all the time.


The most economical way to shop is when you shop at the mercados. But you must haggle.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby KenBE » Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:30 pm

chi chi wrote:
KenBE wrote:That is true, but a lot of things are cheaper in Peruvian supermarkets as well. If you want to live cheaply in Peru you have to eat like a Peruvian and not buy a lot of imported stuff. I lived quite cheaply in Peru and shopped at Tottus and Plaza Vea all the time.


The most economical way to shop is when you shop at the mercados. But you must haggle.


The mercados are usually cheaper yes, but not always. I remember that some things were actually cheaper at Tottus than at the mercados. And it also depends on the mercado you go to. The ones in the poorest áreas are a lot cheaper than the ones in the more middle class zonas.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby chi chi » Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:52 pm

KenBE wrote:The mercados are usually cheaper yes, but not always. I remember that some things were actually cheaper at Tottus than at the mercados. And it also depends on the mercado you go to. The ones in the poorest áreas are a lot cheaper than the ones in the more middle class zonas.


The supermarkets often have good ofertas like 2X1.

If you prefer supermarkets then go to MAKRO. They generally have the lowest prices. Fish, meat, fruit and veg are always fresh and nicely presented at MAKRO and priced very democratically.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby teamoperu » Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:52 am

chi chi wrote:
KenBE wrote:The mercados are usually cheaper yes, but not always. I remember that some things were actually cheaper at Tottus than at the mercados. And it also depends on the mercado you go to. The ones in the poorest áreas are a lot cheaper than the ones in the more middle class zonas.


The supermarkets often have good ofertas like 2X1.

If you prefer supermarkets then go to MAKRO. They generally have the lowest prices. Fish, meat, fruit and veg are always fresh and nicely presented at MAKRO and priced very democratically.


No. You can get cheaper prices at the other supermarkets when items are on sale as compared to Makro regular prices. So broad statements like this are not correct. If only life was that easy, and black and white, and I could go to just one store to get the lowest prices all the time.

I have no idea what you mean when you say Makro prices are democratic, no one voted on them, and Makro is clearly a capitalistic profit-motivated company, nothing democratic about that.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby Sergio Bernales » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:10 am

chi chi wrote:
KenBE wrote:That is true, but a lot of things are cheaper in Peruvian supermarkets as well. If you want to live cheaply in Peru you have to eat like a Peruvian and not buy a lot of imported stuff. I lived quite cheaply in Peru and shopped at Tottus and Plaza Vea all the time.


The most economical way to shop is when you shop at the mercados. But you must haggle.


I think that's only true if there's a market near you, you're buying in bulk and you're a good at haggling. Having a relationship with a trader might also help. Otherwise, when I go to my nearest market, in Surquillo, to buy half a dozen bananas, a few tomatoes, that sort of thing, the difference between buying a supermarket is almost zero, especially if I include my taxi fare.

As for the Makro, don't you need a special card showing you're a small business to be able to buy there?
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby chi chi » Sat Sep 20, 2014 1:20 pm

Sergio Bernales wrote:As for the Makro, don't you need a special card showing you're a small business to be able to buy there?


They just ask me for an address in Lima. That's all.
If they ask you if you have a business then just give up a name for your business and tell them that you are just starting up.

Loads of people shop there who don't have business.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby teamoperu » Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:06 pm

chi chi wrote:
Sergio Bernales wrote:As for the Makro, don't you need a special card showing you're a small business to be able to buy there?


If they ask you if you have a business then just give up a name for your business and tell them that you are just starting up.


I was able to get my Makro card without having to be a liar.
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Re: Down on Peru...

Postby chi chi » Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:11 pm

teamoperu wrote:I was able to get my Makro card without having to be a liar.


That's what I did too because they just asked me for an address.

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