Santiago vs Lima

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tomsax
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Santiago vs Lima

Postby tomsax » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:10 pm

I have been a week in Santiago de Chile. I'm on a work assigment here for two months away from the family which is tough but Santiago makes a interesting comparison to Lima which I know so much better. The following are first impressions of things that are different and things that are similar. It will be interesting to see how my views change later on.

Metro: Santiago has one and Lima doesn't. I've been impressed so far but only tried it on the weekend. I hear it get very congested during commuting hours. You can get an electronic payment card which is valid for the metro and for the buses all over Santiago. Buses are around half a dollar a ride which is hgh I think compared to Lima.

It is safer. I'm working with lots of expats from the US and other parts and all say Santiago is relatively safe compared to many US cities. It certainly feels safer.

Less burglaries. I went to an suburb of Santiago at the weekend which wasn't upmarket at all. The houses had low fences in their front gardens, no bars on the glass windows and cars where parked outside at night. I can't remember seeing that in Lima for a very long time.

Taxi drivers. Taxi drivers have taximetros. I was amazed when I got a taxi last week. I didn't have enough small notes and coins to pay him the right amount without going into a US$30 (equivalent) note. "Let's not make problems" he said and let me off about a dollar of the fare. I can't remember that ever happening in Lima. They would have insisted on me finding somewhere to change the bigger note.

Restaurants. Wow do I miss Peruvian restaurants here. I am in the financial district of Santiago which may be especially bad. There are plenty of nice restauarants serving large portions of over rich international food. I just want a humble Peruvian style menu del dia. But I can't find it. I went to a restuarant selling "Chilean food" on Saturday. I got a passable embanada as a starter and for seconds a very large plate of meat stew with very little input in terms of condiments and imagination. I have been adviced by a Mexican friend to try and find a Peruvian restuarnt.

Piscos. Went to a bar last week (same night as the taxi ride). There were Chilean "traditional" piscos for about $3 and then Peruvian piscos for around US$6. The Peruvian piscos are bigger, seen as better and therefore about twice as expensive.

Women: Very attractive women though I would say the hottest are not as hot as the hottest Peruvian ie my wife. I'm not only writing this cos my wife might read it.

Centre of town. Santiago old centre is being renovated at the moment. This may be a good thing but for the moment there is very little to see due to the boarding and construction deviations. From what I could see it is not nearly as interesting as Central Lima.

Scenery. Santiago has very impressive mountains around it, the top of which have snow on top. Beautiful to see and apparently there are ski resorts in winter only an hr away.

Pollution. Difficult to say but I suspect it is just as bad as Lima.

Prices. I'm out of date so maybe Peru is a lot more expensive now. My nearest supermarket here is more expensive than where I go shopping in the UK. Restuarants where I am (okay it is probably the most expensive part of town) are no cheaper than the UK.

Manners. Chileans seem very polite to me. More reserved and quieter than Peruvians I would say.

Traffic: except traffic is I think is as bad. The green man walking goes on and cars are still crossing. People obvioulsy see traffic lights as just suggestions.

Wealth. I am in the financial district which has loads of very tall building and posh hotels. But I thought it would be small like San Isidro. But I've travelled in two different directions and the wealthy building just go on a on. Expensive shopping centres, bars and restuarants are full of wealthy Chileans. I guess Peru has got richer too but I wasn't expecting this.

Poverty: but I have still seen plenty of poverty. Like Lima the ride from the airport seems to include views of many of the worst places people have to live.

That's all for now.


Tom
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Re: Santiago vs Lima

Postby teamoperu » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:36 pm

Might want to try that red hop on hop off bus tour to get quick overview of Santiago. And the Pio Nono bar district (Bellavista). Would love to hear your further observations.
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Re: Santiago vs Lima

Postby KenBE » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:50 pm

tomsax wrote:
Restaurants. Wow do I miss Peruvian restaurants here. I am in the financial district of Santiago which may be especially bad. There are plenty of nice restauarants serving large portions of over rich international food. I just want a humble Peruvian style menu del dia. But I can't find it. I went to a restuarant selling "Chilean food" on Saturday. I got a passable embanada as a starter and for seconds a very large plate of meat stew with very little input in terms of condiments and imagination. I have been adviced by a Mexican friend to try and find a Peruvian restuarnt.




Aren't there lots of Peruvian restaurants in Santiago? The Chilean president himself has said that the best restaurants in Santiago are Peruvian :D

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Re: Santiago vs Lima

Postby Bobby » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:08 pm

tomsax wrote:Metro: Santiago has one and Lima doesn't. I've been impressed so far but only tried it on the weekend. I hear it get very congested during commuting hours. You can get an electronic payment card which is valid for the metro and for the buses all over Santiago


Hi,
Not exactly true. Linea 1 is now working (VES to SJL), Linea 2 is under -or will be shortly-under construction, and technical studies are carried for Linea 3 and 4. You also have the Metropolitano which is a quite modern transportation system. Of course nothing compared to Santiago, Buenos Aires or Mexico DF...
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Re: Santiago vs Lima

Postby argidd » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:28 pm

Ahhhh Santiago.... If it weren't for the food and the pollution, it would be my ideal place to live.
I agree Tom, it is a beautiful city, and much more modern than Lima; the mountain surroundings are amazing, and there aren't any disgusting shanty towns deteriorating the view.

If you want a menu style place, there are a few, if you are in Las Condes, near Parque Araucano, on Rosario Norte 555, on the ground floor there is a menu place, last time I was there the menu was 3,500 pesos.
Regards,

Argidd
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Re: Santiago vs Lima

Postby chi chi » Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:58 am

I enjoyed visiting the zoo at Cerro San Cristóbal. Nice view over the city from the zoo.

When I was in Santiago, I felt like I was in Europe and not in Latin America. Most people in Santiago look European as well.


argidd wrote:there aren't any disgusting shanty towns deteriorating the view.


Simply because they Chilean government looks after it's citizens. They provide social housing and wellfare benefits.
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Re: Santiago vs Lima

Postby TonyLeslie » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:56 am

Tom, you have to be in Las Condes, my favorite spot in Santiago, if you are in the financial district and I go along with Ingrid regarding Parque Araucana and finding some decent restarants in that area. I was always lucky having some local knowledge to lead me to some very good restaurants hidden in the many backstreets.

Left to my own devices, I was always happy to go to the local Tip Y Tap Restaurant for a good steak, a cold Chilean Beer and a decent Chilean red wine. My local Tip y Tap was in Calle San Crescent between Ave Apoquindo and Napoleon St. Not a glamouras restaurant, but great staff and a good steak. It might have a slight leaning to being a restaurant for the boys, especially with the TV on the sports channel all day, but your wife would not feel out of place. Tip Y Tap is a Chilean Restaurant Chain as you will probably know by now.

El Golf was my local Metro station, but now they have extended the Line past Escuela Militar, the trains might be more crowded when the arrive there, but it was always better than Tobalaba because two lines intersect there and it was always crowded.

I don't know where you are staying, but on Saturdays, it used to take me about 30 minutes to walk from Calloa St to the entrance to Cerro San Cristobal then walk to the top which took me another 45 minute. You are in the company of literally dozens of other people doing the same and pass all sorts of Aerobic classes going on as well. You can hear the music a lot earlier than you can see them dancing. It was a place full of vibrance on Saturday mornings in particular.

Must admit, I do miss the place.
Last edited by TonyLeslie on Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Santiago vs Lima

Postby timothy » Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:33 pm

Don't miss going to the central seafood market. With its long coastline Chile has it all. There are several small restaurants inside of the market, and if you want you can go and select your own catch of the day and they will prepare it for you.
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Re: Santiago vs Lima

Postby chi chi » Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:13 pm

Santiago is located in a first world country with a stable economy and has good social security.

Lima is located in a third world country. Most of the economy is informal. The lack of social security and strong labour laws is responsable for the high crime rates and poverty. Like in many third world countries, many people survive of money sent to them by relatives living abroad.

Whilst most people in Santiago have a good standard of living, most people in Lima live in poverty.

Many people in Lima don't have electricity or wáter in their home and educational standards are very low. The streets of Lima are dirty, stray dogs all over the place, loads of people go through the garbage bags at night looking for things to recycle or for throw away food ítems. There's so much crime in Lima that people put 2 locks on their door, metal bars in front of their windows and on top of that pay a watchiman to look after their home.

I am in Spain right now and I talked to several Peruvians living here. They wouldn't even think of going back to Peru. They rather sleep on the streets in Spain than going back to Peru.
Peruvians that have the chance to leave will leave.
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Re: Santiago vs Lima

Postby teamoperu » Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:43 pm

chi chi wrote:Santiago is located in a first world country with a stable economy and has good social security.

Lima is located in a third world country. Most of the economy is informal. The lack of social security and strong labour laws is responsable for the high crime rates and poverty. Like in many third world countries, many people survive of money sent to them by relatives living abroad.

Whilst most people in Santiago have a good standard of living, most people in Lima live in poverty.

Many people in Lima don't have electricity or wáter in their home and educational standards are very low. The streets of Lima are dirty, stray dogs all over the place, loads of people go through the garbage bags at night looking for things to recycle or for throw away food ítems. There's so much crime in Lima that people put 2 locks on their door, metal bars in front of their windows and on top of that pay a watchiman to look after their home.

I am in Spain right now and I talked to several Peruvians living here. They wouldn't even think of going back to Peru. They rather sleep on the streets in Spain than going back to Peru.
Peruvians that have the chance to leave will leave.


Folks, if you are a novice, please ignore chi chi's posts. He constantly hate posts about Peru and Lima and best place in the world is always where he is. Most everything he says in this post about Peru is exaggerated bs and I doubt he has met any Peruvians in Spain. He has been caught in untruths before. Maybe one day he will join the expatSpain forum and stop bad mouthing and misrepresenting Lima here. Ojalá
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Re: Santiago vs Lima

Postby Guiri » Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:51 pm

teamoperu wrote:
chi chi wrote: Most everything he says in this post about Peru is exaggerated bs and I doubt he has met any Peruvians in Spain.
Exaggerated , yes a bit, but not far off the truth :D
...and there are living ten thousands of Peruvian in Spain and if they got a steady job they even think a second going back!
Last edited by Guiri on Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Santiago vs Lima

Postby chi chi » Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:02 pm

teamoperu wrote:He constantly hate posts about Peru and Lima and best place in the world is always where he is. Most everything he says in this post about Peru is exaggerated bs and I doubt he has met any Peruvians in Spain.


They aren't hate posts. People should know the truth. Life in Peru is tough for most Peruvians.

Most tourists that visit Lima don't go further than Miraflores and some of the nicer áreas in downtown Lima. And they get the opinión that Lima is nice city where people are affluent. They don't see how most Peruvians live. They don't visit the Barrios Altos, San Juan de Lurigancho, El Agustino, San Martin de Porres, Callao, La Victoria and the shantytowns that surround Lima where people don't have electricity or running wáter.
A large number of the Peruvians survive because they have family that had the luck to able abroad and they send money to their family in Peru.

Most Peruvians work hard for very little money and have to scrape to make ends meet.
Peruvians that had the luck that to move abroad will never move back to Peru.

Personally, I think Peru is a great country to live in. But I arrived with a good amount of money that I made abroad so I could afford a good lifestyle in Peru.
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Re: Santiago vs Lima

Postby chi chi » Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:10 pm

Guiri wrote:...and there are living ten thousands of Peruvian in Spain and if they got a steady job they even think going back!


A think, that there will be much more than ten thousands Peruvians live in Spain. I am sure that it will be a few hundred thousands of them.

If they find a steady job in Peru??? Sure, if they can get a job that will get them the same lifestyle as they get in Spain they might move back.
But if they have children then they probably will stay in Spain or any other country in Europe. Education, social security, healthcare is much better. Their children will always get a better future in Europe.
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Re: Santiago vs Lima

Postby teamoperu » Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:51 pm

chi chi wrote:
teamoperu wrote:He constantly hate posts about Peru and Lima and best place in the world is always where he is. Most everything he says in this post about Peru is exaggerated bs and I doubt he has met any Peruvians in Spain.


They aren't hate posts. People should know the truth. Life in Peru is tough for most Peruvians.

Most tourists that visit Lima don't go further than Miraflores and some of the nicer áreas in downtown Lima. And they get the opinión that Lima is nice city where people are affluent. They don't see how most Peruvians live. They don't visit the Barrios Altos, San Juan de Lurigancho, El Agustino, San Martin de Porres, Callao, La Victoria and the shantytowns that surround Lima where people don't have electricity or running wáter.
A large number of the Peruvians survive because they have family that had the luck to able abroad and they send money to their family in Peru.

Most Peruvians work hard for very little money and have to scrape to make ends meet.
Peruvians that had the luck that to move abroad will never move back to Peru.

Personally, I think Peru is a great country to live in. But I arrived with a good amount of money that I made abroad so I could afford a good lifestyle in Peru.


Yes people should know the truth. Sadly, they are not getting it from you.
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Re: Santiago vs Lima

Postby Guiri » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:16 pm

teamoperu wrote:Yes people should know the truth. Sadly, they are not getting it from you.
Unfortunately from you neither, with your red and white shades on :lol:
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Re: Santiago vs Lima

Postby teamoperu » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:58 am

Guiri wrote:
teamoperu wrote:Yes people should know the truth. Sadly, they are not getting it from you.
Unfortunately from you neither, with your red and white shades on :lol:


Well, maybe I am wrong, but at least you agree with me when I make a “wrong” statement. With regard to my comment “Most everything he says in this post about Peru is exaggerated bs” you agreed and stated “Exaggerated, yes a bit, but not far off the truth”. So you agree with me it is exaggerated. “not far off the truth” means he is off the truth. So I agree with you, but maybe I am wrong about that.
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Re: Santiago vs Lima

Postby TonyLeslie » Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:46 am

I think it's time we had a few more words from our OP. Tom, where are you?
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Re: Santiago vs Lima

Postby chi chi » Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:27 pm

TonyLeslie wrote:I think it's time we had a few more words from our OP. Tom, where are you?


I guess he's in Santiago. :)
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Re: Santiago vs Lima

Postby Guiri » Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:11 pm

teamoperu wrote:
Guiri wrote:
teamoperu wrote:Yes people should know the truth. Sadly, they are not getting it from you.
Unfortunately from you neither, with your red and white shades on :lol:


Well, maybe I am wrong, but at least you agree with me when I make a “wrong” statement. With regard to my comment “Most everything he says in this post about Peru is exaggerated bs” you agreed and stated “Exaggerated, yes a bit, but not far off the truth”. So you agree with me it is exaggerated. “not far off the truth” means he is off the truth. So I agree with you, but maybe I am wrong about that.
You , my friend , have a very strange logic :lol:
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Re: Santiago vs Lima

Postby tupacperu » Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:07 pm

argidd wrote:Ahhhh Santiago.... If it weren't for the food and the pollution, it would be my ideal place to live.
I agree Tom, it is a beautiful city, and much more modern than Lima; the mountain surroundings are amazing, and there aren't any disgusting shanty towns deteriorating the view.

If you want a menu style place, there are a few, if you are in Las Condes, near Parque Araucano, on Rosario Norte 555, on the ground floor there is a menu place, last time I was there the menu was 3,500 pesos.


agreed... too far below the equator for me....
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Re: Santiago vs Lima

Postby tomsax » Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:34 pm

TonyLeslie wrote:I think it's time we had a few more words from our OP. Tom, where are you?


Hi Tony. You are so right - I am in Las Condes. I actually found a great Peruvian restaurant tonight. It was on Goyenechea and opposiste another Tip y Tap. It was great. I hope a sign of better things to come. I also found out there is another Peruvian restaurant just next to the office but only open for lunches.

I appreciate the other suggestions people have come up with. I need to check out that park and the bus tour.

The weather is perfect right now. Sunny with great light in the evening but not too hot during the day.

The reason for my radio silence is that I work very long hours here. That is one of the downsides. In terms of comparisons with Lima I realise this might be something the cities have in common. When I was in Lima I worked very long ours but I had my own business so it was voluntary and it was my decision so I didn't mind. Here I'm working for the same company as I was working for in the UK but I am expected to work Chilean work hours. Chilean work hours are 45 hours a week. The staff here take Friday afternoons off so get in at 8.30am and then leave at 7.30pm Monday to Thursday. They also only have three weeks holiday (unlike 5 weeks for us in the UK) so they are working extra hours at the moment so as to be able to take between Christmas and New Year off. It's crazy. If I leave at 7pm the office is almost completely full.

Reading up on the web apparently Peruvian working hours are often even more than this and they usually have even less leave.

My family is not here with me, which is bit sad. My idea was to case out the joint here and then we could all come back after Christmas but I am having serious doubts just due to the long hours. I would see very little of my family during the week.

The advantages would be my wife would be nearer her family and the children would learn to speak more Spanish.

Anyway, this is a fun jaunt for a couple of months.

Will post more probably at the weekend.

Tom
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Re: Santiago vs Lima

Postby tomsax » Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:42 am

teamoperu wrote:Might want to try that red hop on hop off bus tour to get quick overview of Santiago. And the Pio Nono bar district (Bellavista). Would love to hear your further observations.


Do you remember the name of the bus door you recommend? There seems to be more than one. Anyway I have found one so will probably go on that one.
Tom
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Re: Santiago vs Lima

Postby tomsax » Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:44 am

timothy wrote:Don't miss going to the central seafood market. With its long coastline Chile has it all. There are several small restaurants inside of the market, and if you want you can go and select your own catch of the day and they will prepare it for you.


Are you talking about the central market near the Plaza de Armas. I think I will go there next weekend...
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Re: Santiago vs Lima

Postby teamoperu » Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:52 am

tomsax wrote:
teamoperu wrote:Might want to try that red hop on hop off bus tour to get quick overview of Santiago. And the Pio Nono bar district (Bellavista). Would love to hear your further observations.


Do you remember the name of the bus door you recommend? There seems to be more than one. Anyway I have found one so will probably go on that one.


It was Turistik

http://www.turistik.cl/?lang=en
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Re: Santiago vs Lima

Postby tomsax » Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:12 pm

teamoperu wrote:
tomsax wrote:
teamoperu wrote:Might want to try that red hop on hop off bus tour to get quick overview of Santiago. And the Pio Nono bar district (Bellavista). Would love to hear your further observations.


Do you remember the name of the bus door you recommend? There seems to be more than one. Anyway I have found one so will probably go on that one.


It was Turistik

http://www.turistik.cl/?lang=en


I want on the transantiago Circuito Cultural bus today. It was a fraction of the cost.

If anyone is coming to Santiago I would strongly advise them to try teamoperu's recommendations (Turistik) instead as the one I took was a bit pants!
Tom

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