the right to steal

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SilverbackPeru
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the right to steal

Postby SilverbackPeru » Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:27 pm

i've been in Peru for a good 7-8 years now and despite it's plus points Peru always has some really difficult negatives to put up with. Renting property and dealing with the owners is probably one of the most difficult things you will ever do here because (out of my experience and other stories of friends) the owner will always try to screw you out of every single penny you have, make excuses to keep your deposit and have you redecorate their building even if the place was in poor condition before you moved in.

Even if you make a water tight contract the owner will usually make up excuses to try and get things replaced. Reasons like it's not the original doors, the house was newly painted when you moved in, you've changed the windows and she wants the originals back in, the rooms were painted white originally (when in fact they were grey like the inside of a communist block prision). then you point out things that you had to repair and the owner replies "well that was just your opinion of the problem" even tho you contacted the owner to inform them of the endless things breaking, and you know the owner will complain about things not working down the line even tho the building is complete rubbish.

Then comes the next phase of over inflated prices for the painters, and other fictionary problems for builders to repair.

Anyone that is looking to rent property here do yourself a favour, think of every single thing that could go wrong and make sure you have it in the contract who is responsible for it being repaired. Expect the owner to want to push the price of the property up mid contract and most of all take photos when the owner shows you around because when that contract is up they will try to steal every single penny off you!

Take photos of the rooms, electrical sockets, taps, windows, curtains and list all items that belong to the house and their condition. I will especially be looking forward to seeing the owners face when she lists her fictional problems and i provide photographic evenidence of otherwise.

I've met some really great people here and Peru despite it's flaws is an awesome place but always it's dealing with these type of people in Peru the most difficult thing to live with. Also lets call a spade a spade and these people what they are which is thieves. People who take the desposit and expect you to refurbish their building free of charge despite them obviously never caring about the condition of the place themselves.

Honestly it makes you think why anyone in their right mind would want to invest here when there is so many problems like this that can happen and all that it does is reinforce negatives about Peruvians whom most are good honest people trying to get by!

What's other peoples experiences?


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Re: the right to steal

Postby woodchuck » Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:34 pm

Without getting into many details, I agree 100%.
In 18 months of renting, I improved the property by at least $7,000 & still the landlord refused to return my security deposit. NO MORE RENTING - for me. Thanks for sharing & best wishes. :roll:
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SilverbackPeru
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Re: the right to steal

Postby SilverbackPeru » Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:59 pm

exactly, yet another thing you need to put in the contract, that organise if the owner will return your money or just give you two months (amount of the deposit) rent free. It is the done thing that they usually give you the last few months rent free but it's worth bringing up this subject and being well prepared for it down the line.

Generally you know as soon as you give them that deposit that they've spent it and they have no intention of giving you the cash back.

God only knows how you start a business here, how can you trust people when they try to Screw you over like this.

Things will work out fine so nothing to worry about it's just living here can destroy your trust in humanity at times when you deal with people like this.
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adrian Thorne
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Re: the right to steal

Postby adrian Thorne » Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:54 pm

You are spot on with the title of this thread. I learnt very early on if the situation presents itself most people here will take advantage of it. I burnt my fingers a few times within a few months of arriving and even my wife agreed it was normal practice. This has continued from time to time over many years now, even though I adopted the attitude of not trusting "Anybody" and remembering the phrase "Buyer be ware". There is no point going into details, but sad to say it includes family, friends, large and small businesses and of course, services.

Some things will never change
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Re: the right to steal

Postby jhand8pp4 » Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:42 pm

I agree with Silverback Peru that most Peruvians are good honest people trying to get by. I remember last year that when I felt my pocket I could not feel my wallet. I had about $100.00 in soles in it and I expected that I would never see it again. I started making the rounds of all the places where I had been the day before. The first stop was the lavanderia. I asked the lady attendant if I had left my wallet there. She smiled, reached under her counter and handed me my wallet. None of my money was missing.
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Re: the right to steal

Postby woodchuck » Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:54 am

Of course, you can't make judgments about everyone - based on a few situations.
I am glad the woman was honest; I hope you gave her a reward.
If I remember correctly, in the US any security deposit money has to be kept in a bank account to avoid the situation that the landlord uses the deposit money & thus makes no effort to refund.
Of course this is the US, but something to consider here... Thanks. :roll:
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Re: the right to steal

Postby caliguy » Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:30 pm

SilverbackPeru wrote:God only knows how you start a business here, how can you trust people when they try to Screw you over like this.

not a renter, but own a home due to inheritance, so can't put my opinion on that. regards to doing business though, folks will tell you one thing and do another. case in point: i sold an industrial machine on an agreed price with contract that it was sold as is in used condition. he even invited a technician to inspect it before purchase. buyer then signed contract. not more than a week later i get a call that it needs this, that and the other thing to be up to par. well, with all the parts he requested would have brought the machine condition back to "as new". he told me he wanted a $3000 dollar discount for these parts. in the end, i agreed to give him $500 discount.
every place has it's own spirit. you just need to tune into it.
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Re: the right to steal

Postby Suger » Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:45 pm

adrian Thorne wrote:You are spot on with the title of this thread. I learnt very early on if the situation presents itself most people here will take advantage of it. I burnt my fingers a few times within a few months of arriving and even my wife agreed it was normal practice. This has continued from time to time over many years now, even though I adopted the attitude of not trusting "Anybody" and remembering the phrase "Buyer be ware". There is no point going into details, but sad to say it includes family, friends, large and small businesses and of course, services.

Some things will never change


I am perplexed. Why the heck do you, Adrian, stay in Peru. Like beating your head against the wall? The rest of you...why do you just shrug your shoulders and put up with this stuff? Things are worse where you come from? Of maybe there is some reason why you had to leave where you came from.
The way you guys describe Peru it is hell on earth, but you remain....why?
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Re: the right to steal

Postby gringolandia » Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:50 pm

Suger wrote:The way you guys describe Peru it is hell on earth, but you remain....why?


Peru is not awful, but definitely there are some big negatives that have to be dealt with, particularly for someone coming from a developed country.

To answer the question (since this is an open forum, even though it wasn't directed at me): I wouldn't stay here if it weren't for (1) my wife's family being here allowing my daughters to experience a close family bond, and (2) the sunk investments we've made here that would be difficult to disentangle ourselves from.

I had expected living here to be much cheaper than in the US, but it frankly hasn't turned out that way so far (particularly since we try to maintain a standard of living similar to what we had in the US). Also, my plan of living at our beach house south of Lima turned out to be unrealistic due to the kids needing travel to the school we chose. Had I fully known what I was getting into I question whether I would have made the move here in the first place. But now I'm here, so I deal with it.

The good thing is that if you keep in mind the negatives you can steer clear of most problems... well, except the traffic (though honestly I manage to almost always avoid driving during high traffic times, so I mostly avoid that horror as well). Personally I appreciate the people who are honest about the negative things in Peru because being aware of them allows one to make living here bearable.

That's not to say there aren't some great things too. The food is great, affordable nannies are a godsend, summers at the beach are wonderful... so of course hearing about the positive things is important as well. But talking only about the positive things and not including the negative doesn't help anyone (except maybe tourist operators... ha).

(By the way, I wrote this assuming that "Sugar" is a sock puppet troll... but I thought it was actually a reasonable question that I have a good answer for anyway.)
Suger

Re: the right to steal

Postby Suger » Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:38 pm

gringolandia wrote:
Suger wrote:The way you guys describe Peru it is hell on earth, but you remain....why?


Peru is not awful, but definitely there are some big negatives that have to be dealt with, particularly for someone coming from a developed country.

To answer the question (since this is an open forum, even though it wasn't directed at me): I wouldn't stay here if it weren't for (1) my wife's family being here allowing my daughters to experience a close family bond, and (2) the sunk investments we've made here that would be difficult to disentangle ourselves from.

I had expected living here to be much cheaper than in the US, but it frankly hasn't turned out that way so far (particularly since we try to maintain a standard of living similar to what we had in the US). Also, my plan of living at our beach house south of Lima turned out to be unrealistic due to the kids needing travel to the school we chose. Had I fully known what I was getting into I question whether I would have made the move here in the first place. But now I'm here, so I deal with it.

The good thing is that if you keep in mind the negatives you can steer clear of most problems... well, except the traffic (though honestly I manage to almost always avoid driving during high traffic times, so I mostly avoid that horror as well). Personally I appreciate the people who are honest about the negative things in Peru because being aware of them allows one to make living here bearable.

That's not to say there aren't some great things too. The food is great, affordable nannies are a godsend, summers at the beach are wonderful... so of course hearing about the positive things is important as well. But talking only about the positive things and not including the negative doesn't help anyone (except maybe tourist operators... ha).

(By the way, I wrote this assuming that "Sugar" is a sock puppet troll... but I thought it was actually a reasonable question that I have a good answer for anyway.)

You seem to be an honest person but like the rest you label any desenting oponions as comoming from a trool (you might want to look up the definition of a troll)
I am seeking honest information why folks go to a third world country and expound on its its greatness. Maybe the food is great, what are the standards? Is it free of desease and containiumants. Has any government authority ever looked at it? The oceans in the summer...how far out is the sewerage line, is there even a line,lol. How do you deal with knowing you are exposing your kids to such filth?
Thank you for your time. Let's see if any one else is as honest.
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gringolandia
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Re: the right to steal

Postby gringolandia » Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:30 pm

I haven't decided yet if you're a troll, but people who write a first post that is potentially argumentative often are. Why, if I may ask, are you "seeking honest information why folks go to a third world country and expound on its its greatness." That seems like a rather odd and random thing to be seeking. Why do you care? Why this forum? What other names have you used here in the past?

As far as the quality of the food, Peru is becoming widely regarded as the culinary capital of South America, and three of the world's top 50 restaurants in 2016 are in Lima (#4 - Central, #13 - Maido, #30 - Astrid & Gaston). But I could just have said the food is excellent based on my opinion (which is true) and that would have been perfectly valid by itself. I tend to eat at nice restaurants, but as with any third world country I'd verify that food is properly cooked in less nice restaurants and insist on bottled water (which is usually the only water that is offered anyway). Restaurants are inspected in Lima and those that are serious health risks do get shut down, so any serious concern about that is probably overblown.

The beach I go to is very secure and clean, though I wouldn't suggest drinking ocean salt water in any case. I'd be a little more concerned at Playa Tortoritas, where there is a (strangely warm) river outlet that occasionally has parts of livestock (and who knows what else) flowing down from Mala in it. Otherwise that's also a very nice beach though.

"How do you deal with knowing you are exposing your kids to such filth?" Seriously? That's the sort of baited question a troll asks. And I don't need to look up what a troll is because I've literally been active on the Internet since before it existed. I won't yet say you're a troll, but you sure seem troll-like so far.

(responding only because I had some worthwhile info to convey... will stop as soon as this conversation goes sideways as I suspect it will)
(update: yep, this was my last response to Sugar, as I expected)
Last edited by gringolandia on Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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adrian Thorne
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Re: the right to steal

Postby adrian Thorne » Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:06 pm

Suger wrote:I am perplexed. Why the heck do you, Adrian, stay in Peru. Like beating your head against the wall? The rest of you...why do you just shrug your shoulders and put up with this stuff? Things are worse where you come from? Of maybe there is some reason why you had to leave where you came from.
The way you guys describe Peru it is hell on earth, but you remain....why?


I am sorry, but you are way off topic. A conversational question has been asked and answered honestly, without malice and bears no relationship to the likes / dislikes, love / hate of a country.
Suger

Re: the right to steal

Postby Suger » Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:41 pm

adrian Thorne wrote:
Suger wrote:I am perplexed. Why the heck do you, Adrian, stay in Peru. Like beating your head against the wall? The rest of you...why do you just shrug your shoulders and put up with this stuff? Things are worse where you come from? Of maybe there is some reason why you had to leave where you came from.
The way you guys describe Peru it is hell on earth, but you remain....why?


I am sorry, but you are way off topic. A conversational question has been asked and answered honestly, without malice and bears no relationship to the likes / dislikes, love / hate of a country.

Thank you Adrian. I guess I was confused that this was a conservation forum where people conversate. You know like where someone someone asks a question and another answers or someone says something and another asks a question.
In the rules for this forum "While the rules in this forum are more relaxed than in other parts of the Expat site, there are still a few things we’d like you to remember: No name calling, no insults – be civil to each other!"
I would not call being called a troll as being civil for simply asking a question. I meant no offence so why would Gringolandia see fit to offend me and not be repromanded?
You do a great job, thank you for this forum.

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