Peru at 53 in list "The Best & Worst Places for Expats in 2016"

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FDiH
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Peru at 53 in list "The Best & Worst Places for Expats in 2016"

Postby FDiH » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:20 am

Peru pretty much at the bottom of the list, not making the bottom 10. Why is Peru so low in the list? Did not expect a top 10 position, but I would have given higher scores. Perhaps because I do not live in Lima :)

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Re: Peru at 53 in list "The Best & Worst Places for Expats in 2016"

Postby 69roadrunner » Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:00 am

FDiH wrote:Peru pretty much at the bottom of the list, not making the bottom 10. Why is Peru so low in the list? Did not expect a top 10 position, but I would have given higher scores. Perhaps because I do not live in Lima :)

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But Peru is the number one food destination in the world.
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Re: Peru at 53 in list "The Best & Worst Places for Expats in 2016"

Postby woodchuck » Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:00 am

Peru is always at the end of the list on these "Best Places for Expats" ever since I started checking in 2010. I was nearing retirement age & was fed up with the costs of living in the US; I had visited other S. American countries & liked the Latino "experience".

For me Lima was just another American large city with people/traffic congestion, air pollution, high real estate prices, etc. Once I ventured out into the mountain areas & was able to enjoy clean air & lots of green, I was impressed. Also the people in these areas are more - friendly.

If you do an in-depth evaluation of most of these sites, they seem to emphasise the metropolitan life-style & thus Peru will not be rated as high as it should be. Thanks for sharing. :roll:
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Re: Peru at 53 in list "The Best & Worst Places for Expats in 2016"

Postby jhand8pp4 » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:35 pm

I think it is all about what you want most for your lifestyle. For me, I wanted a place that was safe, the climate was like Spring most of the year and I would not have a problem with my seasonal allergies. I tried Tacna, Peru for two weeks and I realized that it was the place for me to retire.
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Re: Peru at 53 in list "The Best & Worst Places for Expats in 2016"

Postby SilverbackPeru » Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:34 pm

Peru has a lot to offer and the people here are very friendly but i just think the cost of living against quality of life might have messed it up for Peru, especially for those in Lima.

It's great if you are retired or have a skilled job, then you get to live in the bubble that is Miraflores or San Isidro. The problem is when you end up on a local wage and try to get by on that. You have to move out into other neighbourhoods that Usually aren't as good for things to do. Then there's Lima's transportation problems which are the worst in the world for a city of it's size. Does anyone seriously enjoy being stuck in a combi all day? I hate the bloody things!

Lima is extremely over populated, busy roads, noisey and basically a total hell hole in much of the city. Once you get out into the rest of Peru and are near nature then it's a different story and you get the best of the country but it's also a case of balancing modern needs against place to live. Even Lima struggles to fill a lot of my requirements for a modern life so it's only going to be more challanging the further into the country you go.

I wonder how well Ecuador will do in the future? I love Quito but crime has being going up there lately over the last few years, so will we see that drop a few places!
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Re: Peru at 53 in list "The Best & Worst Places for Expats in 2016"

Postby Alan » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:23 pm

Jeez.. the list might as well be in alphabetical order. I can't seem much rhyme or reason in it. Why is Spain near the top, and Italy near the bottom? Ecuador in the top ten! Columbia outstripping Chile... and I know Peru isn't always a paradise, but based on what I have heard from expats who have lived and worked in Uganda.. life here is quite a bit easier. I don't know, it just doesn't seem to add up. Possibly the base of people surveyed was too small?
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Re: Peru at 53 in list "The Best & Worst Places for Expats in 2016"

Postby ironchefchris » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:45 pm

I take lists like this with a grain of salt. There may be some validity or truth in the most basic of generalities, but so much depends on where in a certain country one lives, expectations, needs, personal factors and considerations, etc..

I'm also skeptical at times that whoever produces these lists has their own motivations which are reflected in the rankings. Like how certain countries get a lot of focus on International Living while others are completely ignored. But I haven't read the article the OP is based upon so I have no idea if that's the case here or not. Nonetheless, these kinds of lists can be interesting.
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Re: Peru at 53 in list "The Best & Worst Places for Expats in 2016"

Postby bigdaddy » Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:56 pm

Alan wrote:Jeez.. the list might as well be in alphabetical order. I can't seem much rhyme or reason in it. Why is Spain near the top, and Italy near the bottom? Ecuador in the top ten! Columbia outstripping Chile... and I know Peru isn't always a paradise, but based on what I have heard from expats who have lived and worked in Uganda.. life here is quite a bit easier. I don't know, it just doesn't seem to add up. Possibly the base of people surveyed was too small?


Colombia has made great strides to overcome their narcoterrorist image and become a retirement haven.
Ecuador isn't surprising either.
They seem to always rank high on these types of lists.
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Re: Peru at 53 in list "The Best & Worst Places for Expats in 2016"

Postby Alpineprince » Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:08 pm

jhand8pp4 wrote:I think it is all about what you want most for your lifestyle. For me, I wanted a place that was safe, the climate was like Spring most of the year and I would not have a problem with my seasonal allergies. I tried Tacna, Peru for two weeks and I realized that it was the place for me to retire.

I have to agree with this. I have lived in Miraflores for 13 years and am very happy that I chose to retire and raise my family here.
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Re: Peru at 53 in list "The Best & Worst Places for Expats in 2016"

Postby selenic » Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:07 pm

This chart has absolutely no sense. Uganda better than Switzerland? The Scandinavian countries at the bottom?
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Re: Peru at 53 in list "The Best & Worst Places for Expats in 2016"

Postby 19naia » Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:48 am

I started writing and didnt stop and looked back at several pages, so i decided to not post that.
Peru is not for me. I love to visit and maybe try a less polluted area next time for a few months stay. Peru is not a clean place and i was just looking at flights and no flights from my route in UsA Landing in lima other than to put me on the streets of lima at midnight. They steer tourist into cash cow milking schemes in those midnight hours where walking away just outs you on strange streets in Lima after midnight. Otherwise pay the upscale places and have them do ariport pickup and you get what you pay for in peru and its not worth it to come to peru to pay upscale. Nothing as disappointing as paying to stay in USA quality places with all the same standards, but as soon as you leave the premises, all your value is wasted because you still are in a thrid world country with all the conditions and issues wondering why you paid that much. They all wanna come to USA for a better life and if you stay there long enough in those conditions you will want to do the same.
You get your value out of peru when you stay at cheap or mid range places in Peru and have the grit for the general public standards where some are better and some worse but never any better than getting what you pay for. Food and cheap accomodations are the best deals but the value is taken out of it when you realize the quality is unstable never knowing when a live maggot will squirm into view in the salad or when the water or power will go out in the 3 star hotel. And the air pollution and bad smells in some places. Never pay american prices for american standard quality accomodations unless you have to be in peru without option and you have the money to spend. You will be in the big quality hotel and still have to deal with the same smells and traffic and pollution and unstable state of things. Its easier to be disappointed when you didnt invest to deeply with expectations. Often i got pitched high end deals to appeal to my US experiences and i got in there and it was just a front put up by someone trying to live up to a standard they never saw or had for themsleves. I rather stay in a peru standard place that simply has a genuine interest in making their customers comfortable with peru living.
But it was enough to make me do my own house keeping and laundry when i saw the cleaning lady come in with one rag and start on the floor with it and wipe her way up the toilet and then upward to the sink and the faucets and the shower walls and knobs. And to think she just came with the same rag from a dozenmother hotel rooms following the same routine. She left and a broke open he bleach and disnfected the place from the damage she did.
The truth is that she probably doesnt have the luxury of a sink, toilet and shower all in one self contained room with runnin water, so the idea of cleaning each part independently isnt partmof her experience and the the smooth shiny tile and porcelain looks so coean to her compared to what dingy digs she lives in, she cant imagine any part of it being disgusting, and so she wipes it all equally with no prejudice against the toilet as with the sink or any other shiny tiled surface. She is so used to dingy slums and cannot even imagine the hygeine standards i take for granted where i came from. So i say nothing to her and wait kindly for her to leave and get to work quietly and tell her next time i will do my own personal care and she should take a break and relax more. And also i remember to stare at her like i dont speak spanish when she ask for a tip for her proud work and try not to barf.
I got good at that not barfing thing because one day a small maggot crawled across my salad in a modest restaurant, so i picked it out and ate the salad after picking out 2 more of the critters.

Barazil is in the top 7 economic nations but ranks in the bottom ten nations? Thats what i mean by don't go paying for Top quality in these countries just because they have it. Its just like brazil, where they can rank high in Economy standing even with modern jet plane manufacturing but rank at the lowest level in places to be. You will pay the top quality price and expect it and the over all low ranking of the place as a destination will seep through the cracks in smells pollution and instability. At any time your investment in quality is at risk of being a waste. Quality is very unstable in these places.

I got used to low quality and at this point i settle for warm climate and clean air environment even if i have to live in a tent, But the clean air environments with warm climates are either among the most expensive places to live, or the warm climates are third world standard with lots of pollution.
Its interesting that the best places to live are places that get very cold weather. There is something about tropical climates that brings out casual living with not much motivation to be industrious. All times of year there is activity outdoors and vegetative growth and something to harvest, so no need to be industrious and stockpile for the Winter barren times. But the cold climate culture has inundated the hot climate culture with climate controlled dwellings like is necessary for cold climates, inundated with industry on a scale to produce excess as is necessary to hold people over through the cold barren winters. But in warm climates the excess generating activity just keeps going and going year round with no fallow period to let the air clear and ground settle. So the pace of activity caused degeneration is year round everywhere and still they are most often the poorest. Where is all that product of activity ending up?
Cultures are spawned out of environments and climates and when they graft out into other climates and environments, things change and get weird. Religious cultures that make rules about what should be eaten and not eaten, and then those religious cultures move to a new environment and climate and those foods don't exist and the climate that warranted certain dress codes dont exist either and so in the sweltering jungle dressed like a winterized peasant because it "my religion". Muslim head dress and face cover is standard fare for desert cultures with sand storms and heavy sun exposure, and sure enough the desert religions have that enshrined in their religious law. But they look weird and out of nature when in enviroments that have no conditions requiring such head and face cover. Same way a rain forest inhabitant would look walking around the desert with an unbrella everyday when it only rains once or twice a year in the desert. But hey its become his religion.
Some christian Vikings moved to eskimo territory to start a new christian life until a bad winter came and their christian approved crops and live stock failed. They refused to eat what the Eskimos ate because according to their christian religion the eskimos where inferior and destined to hell that their eating of seal meat and whale blubber was a sin in the bible. The Vikings all died out and the Eskimo survived with their sinful inferior ways. I guess the Viking immigrants were so righteous that God decided to kill them in a cold painful death as a reward to have them in heaven close by his side away from the Eskimos who were warm and cozy staying well fed on seal and whale meat even in the worst winter. The Eskimo had their culture and religion endowed by the land/climate conditions and their genetic tenure to the land and climate.

The standard by which the quality is judged is all over the place and depends on expectations. I Just try not to pay too much in places that are a setup for disappointment where you pay for what you get and if you can pay more, the stage becomes set for those who will see your excess and try to get away with giving you less so they can have more for themselves.
These days it is a good place if its not overrun with war, cartel battles, terrorists and desperate refugees from the war cartel and terroist aftermath.
I habe been to 23 countires now and spent a year or more in 4 countries in 3 continents. I even stayed in country on the bottom ten list but Philippines isnt on the bottom ten and i would rather go to Africa than Philippines again and bevause of my experience in Philippines, i will never go to China or India. Serious population pressure in Asia. Pollution and all. Thailand was the exception though. I Would risk asia again just to go to thailand. They really make a humane effort there on average plus the superb food and price to quality ratio.
Tahiland is a better price to quality ration nut the accessibility is restricted, 30 days visti limit and a paid visa preapplied will get up to 90 days. Retirement visas are only given to 55 and okder with the minimum income bar set higher than south american countries. Residency visas are also not so easy. Quick short visits are what they have geared their welcome for or real investors with money, aide and development to offer. A real gem and sure enough they are habing to protect it. Their tourist flocks are like an epic ***** roach infestation and the money is good on them and it shows in their economy and quality of life. People from Every country are found in Thailand. Even european citizens(French guy too) living on the streets hustling out a meager living just for the chance to stay there while dodging immigration enforcement.
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Re: Peru at 53 in list "The Best & Worst Places for Expats in 2016"

Postby jumpinjack » Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:48 am

Very well said. When asked "How did I like Peru" I can never come up with the words. Your thoughts are exactly the words I could not come up with.
Thank you.
I especially related to theses two.

"Nothing as disappointing as paying to stay in USA quality places with all the same standards, but as soon as you leave the premises, all your value is wasted because you still are in a thrid world country with all the conditions and issues wondering why you paid that much."
And
"You will be in the big quality hotel (or living in a USA comparable home) and still have to deal with the same smells and traffic and pollution and unstable state of things."
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Re: Peru at 53 in list "The Best & Worst Places for Expats in 2016"

Postby SilverbackPeru » Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:53 am

Well said. There's a lot of things i like about Lima and i'm lucky enough to live in a very nice part of the city but it's the prices that make living here difficult and disappointing.

My neighbourhood is very pretty but even then it's just a few blocks until you reach a place where there is the butt ugly houses with bad brick work and metal bars sticking out of the walls an endless piles of rubbish. Even on the big million dollar houses you can see where the local builder has done a repair and messed up the original work.

None of these things are generally a problem, slightly annoying yes, but it's having to deal with western prices that leaves you disappointed.

Disappointed that Lima doesn't have cheap food (that has nutritional value and isn't just carbs) you can get on the go, just god awful menu meals. Disappointment in high housing prices for things that are poorly built with toilets you can't put paper in and undrinkable water.
Disappointment in poor repairman, poor internet service, poor banking service, poor education unless you go private which isn't cheap!

Almost exactly the same prices in supermarkets as back home for decent quality food (9 soles for 5 oranges seriously wtf!)

It's not Lima, it's the prices which will be responsible for Lima not being an attractive place to live.
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Re: Peru at 53 in list "The Best & Worst Places for Expats in 2016"

Postby bigdaddy » Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:23 am

Its interesting that the best places to live are places that get very cold weather"

That's because most people (not all) rather be cold than hot.
Look at the US.
The cheapest places to live are in the south where the weather is brutal in the summer.
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Re: Peru at 53 in list "The Best & Worst Places for Expats in 2016"

Postby ironchefchris » Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:36 am

So much depends on where in Perú (or anywhere) you live. I'm perfectly fine living on the beach or a modest pueblo in the most basic of basic accommodations, but I could see how it would be different in a city like Lima where living in a very basic house/apartment might also mean having to live in a more crime ridden area.

I like living in developing countries myself. More flavorful, less blandly homogeneous than a lot of more developed places.

My complaints about living in Latin American countries are pretty minor and I've adjusted for the most part. Sometimes I wish people drove at the pace and tranquility they do when walking on the sidewalks and walked a bit more like they drive on the streets. I wish there was a little more respect or thought shown towards others. Don't stop and carry on a conversation at a busy entrance way or at the top or bottom of an escalator. No need for a group of 5 to walk side by side and take up the whole sidewalk if they're just going to crawl or for a group of people to take up an entire aisle in the market. These are minor though.

My wife and mother in law spent four hours waiting in a doctor's office the other day. The doctor came in about five minutes before his allotted office hours were over so he could say he was there and then left without seeing any patients. Next available appointment at the end of October. There's just no general thought for the value of the time of others. I've always been used to doctors running late on their appointments, but here there's no day before an appointment confirmation call, no call to cancel because the doctor won't be in, no explanation, many times even no receptionist. Whoever mentioned fatalism had it right. There's just no expectation for anything better so sub par (to many expats) service continues because it's the norm.

It's much easier to focus on the annoyances and overlook the good though. Back home there's many of the same issues (bad customer service from cable/internet/cell phone providers, etc.) and all sorts of first world problems to focus on. I do my best to adapt or go with the flow and do what I need to get through the minor inconveniences. Beats living in Aleppo.
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Re: Peru at 53 in list "The Best & Worst Places for Expats in 2016"

Postby Cactus fan » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:24 am

Qatar at the bottom? 90% of the population in Qatar is foreign. Can't be that bad then? Same for Bahrein and UAE.

Switzerland at 31? It's the best country in the world. They have the highest wages in the world, lowest crime rate, best healthcare and education.

Mexico at 4. Is this list for expats involved in dealing the 'white stuff''.

The list was made in 2016. And the US was on the 26th place. Where will the US be on the 2017 list. Trumpy for sure pushed it somewhere near the bottom.
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Re: Peru at 53 in list "The Best & Worst Places for Expats in 2016"

Postby 69roadrunner » Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:00 pm

Sounds like someone has a bone to pick.
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Re: Peru at 53 in list "The Best & Worst Places for Expats in 2016"

Postby Formidable 1 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:33 pm

Cactus fan wrote:Qatar at the bottom? 90% of the population in Qatar is foreign. Can't be that bad then? Same for Bahrein and UAE.

Switzerland at 31? It's the best country in the world. They have the highest wages in the world, lowest crime rate, best healthcare and education.

Mexico at 4. Is this list for expats involved in dealing the 'white stuff''.

The list was made in 2016. And the US was on the 26th place. Where will the US be on the 2017 list. Trumpy for sure pushed it somewhere near the bottom.


Mexico has a very large expat community; beautiful places with a low cost of living.
You're focusing on the border towns and the sensationalism of the media.
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Re: Peru at 53 in list "The Best & Worst Places for Expats in 2016"

Postby Cactus fan » Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:53 am

Formidable 1 wrote:
Mexico has a very large expat community; beautiful places with a low cost of living.
You're focusing on the border towns and the sensationalism of the media.


Mexico is a good holiday destinations.
I've been to Mexico City. It has a lot of culture and history. The food is great. Plenty of cheap and nice hostels.

But I still wouldn't Switzerland and the other European countries behind it on that list.
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Re: Peru at 53 in list "The Best & Worst Places for Expats in 2016"

Postby SilverbackPeru » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:05 am

Usually most of the expats are retired for these sites, so they look for somewhere peaceful and cheap. Switzerland is one of the most beautiful countries in the world, but cheap it is not, so that's probably why it hasn't done so well on the list.

Mexico has places like Lake Chapala near Guadalajara which is a retirement hotspot. I was there in 2003 so i don't know how places in Mexico like that are doing now since the rise in drug problems there but it was an extremely nice and cheap spot i remember!
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Re: Peru at 53 in list "The Best & Worst Places for Expats in 2016"

Postby Cactus fan » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:47 am

SilverbackPeru wrote:Usually most of the expats are retired for these sites, so they look for somewhere peaceful and cheap. Switzerland is one of the most beautiful countries in the world, but cheap it is not, so that's probably why it hasn't done so well on the list.


This list doesn't suit retirees who are looking for somewhere cheap and peaceful either.
As Taiwan, Luxembourg, Singapore are scoring high. And those countries are as expensive as Switzerland.

Taiwan at the top? I don't see my grandmother moving to Taiwan anytime soon. :)
It's a high industrialized country, overcrowded and very expensive. In November I will be traveling around Asia and I noticed that Taiwan will be the most expensive one that I will be visiting.

If this list was aimed at retirees then I would say that countries like Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece, Thailand, The Philippines will be at the top. Those countries are safe and have a low cost of living.
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Re: Peru at 53 in list "The Best & Worst Places for Expats in 2016"

Postby FDiH » Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:28 pm

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Peru at place 47 in the 2017 Expat Insider "The Best & Worst Places for Expats in 2017"" list.

See the full report here: https://cms-internationsgmbh.netdna-ssl.com/cdn/file/2017-09/Expat_Insider_2017_The_InterNations_Survey.pdf
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Re: Peru at 53 in list "The Best & Worst Places for Expats in 2016"

Postby Cactus fan » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:30 pm

The people who took part in this survey must be highly paid executives working for big companies.

They can afford nice flats, chauffeur driven cars, private security, housemaids,...

I don't see anyone on a budget move to the Bahrain, New Zealand, Luxembourg, Taiwan or Singapore.

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