V-people; obey the laws or leave!

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woodchuck
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V-people; obey the laws or leave!

Postby woodchuck » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:31 am

I have total empathy for all Venezuelan people that have been displaced & forced to come to Peru.
A few of them don't seem to care about or understand our laws regarding - preferencia.
Two recent examples on the bus:
1. A perfectly normal (not handicapped) V-woman about 40-45 (sitting in a red seat) refused to give up her seat to a pregnant Peruvian woman.
2. A perfectly normal (not handicapped V-woman about 35-40 (sitting in a red seat) refused to give up her seat to an elderly woman carrying two bags of groceries.
If Peru is going to offer these V-people sanctuary, they have to obey our laws or - GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!
What do other Peruvians (citizens & expats) think?


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windsportinperu
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Re: V-people; obey the laws or leave!

Postby windsportinperu » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:25 pm

I agree,

Some few Venezuelans do no have basic education, but we should not generalize.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2ouoTDZ3A4
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Re: V-people; obey the laws or leave!

Postby 69roadrunner » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:58 pm

Is that vid and your comment a slam at the English?
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Re: V-people; obey the laws or leave!

Postby windsportinperu » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:48 pm

The video teaches (in a funny and sarcastic way) how to be respectful and have good manners giving up a seat to an old lady.

I like it and If I were a professor of an school i would use it during the course "educacion civica"
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Re: V-people; obey the laws or leave!

Postby woodchuck » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:09 pm

I liked the video - thanks.
NO, it is not derogatory to the English (of which my grandparents were).
The preferencia guidelines are - PERUVIAN LAWS.
Both buses where the infractions occurred had stickers on the windows advising same.
On the train the security will come & force a person to move for someone considered - preferencia.
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Re: V-people; obey the laws or leave!

Postby adrian Thorne » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:05 pm

woodchuck wrote:I liked the video - thanks.
NO, it is not derogatory to the English (of which my grandparents were).
The preferencia guidelines are - PERUVIAN LAWS.
Both buses where the infractions occurred had stickers on the windows advising same.
On the train the security will come & force a person to move for someone considered - preferencia.


I believe the video was well constructed and a typical example of peoples attitudes in all parts of the world. I for one love the Preferencia queue in shops and banks. People of all nationalities try and use them and they are served when not busy, but once the rush starts they are a gods send. The number of disdained Looks I receive from younger members of society is most enjoyable, especially in Telefonica.
The people I blame is not the naive and ignorant people. It is the population of Ostriches who bury their heads in the sand to avoid any form of conflict.
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Re: V-people; obey the laws or leave!

Postby woodchuck » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:26 am

Why do some foreign refugees & too many Peruvian citizens seldom obey the Preferencia rules?
People who are NOT Preferencia are always trying to cut into the line - especially at the bank.
Several weeks ago a well-dressed guy in his 40's (at best) got in front of me.
I told him "This is the Preferencia line & you are NOT Preferencia!"
He told me he had a taxi waitung for him; I told him "Leave the line or I will personally throw you out the door!"
There was a security guard in the lobby, but he decided to do nothing (par for the course).
The guy (who spoke English) was shocked that I confronted him, but he did leave.
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Re: V-people; obey the laws or leave!

Postby adrian Thorne » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:16 pm

woodchuck wrote:Why do some foreign refugees & too many Peruvian citizens seldom obey the Preferencia rules?
People who are NOT Preferencia are always trying to cut into the line - especially at the bank.
Several weeks ago a well-dressed guy in his 40's (at best) got in front of me.
I told him "This is the Preferencia line & you are NOT Preferencia!"
He told me he had a taxi waitung for him; I told him "Leave the line or I will personally throw you out the door!"
There was a security guard in the lobby, but he decided to do nothing (par for the course).
The guy (who spoke English) was shocked that I confronted him, but he did leave.


After visiting many countries in my lifetime I have found Peru a very individual country, who as a sedentary republic and predominantly believe they were unjustly treated both in the past and through current circumstances. it has become a cultural practice to take advantage of a situation should it present itself, such as Corruption, opportunity theft, lost property, priority queues, bus seat reservation, etc. etc. Your cultural background of knowing right from wrong is not the way Peruvians think or teach their children. ''Take it when you have the opportunity''. I believe this is unlikely to change and part of a way of life. Solution. Be aware and guard against.
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Re: V-people; obey the laws or leave!

Postby windsportinperu » Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:50 pm

We should have learned to not generalize or having pre-conceived ideas about a group of people who belongs to a race, nation, country, etc.

The problem with that kind of pre-conceived concepts is that almost always let us to very wrong conclusions
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Re: V-people; obey the laws or leave!

Postby adrian Thorne » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:47 pm

windsportinperu wrote:We should have learned to not generalize or having pre-conceived ideas about a group of people who belongs to a race, nation, country, etc.

The problem with that kind of pre-conceived concepts is that almost always let us to very wrong conclusions


I am sorry if you misunderstood my comment. I stand corrected. I have not met every person in Peru, but of the ones I have been involved with, family, friends, friends of friends, business acquaintances, tradesmen, officials etc have all shown similar traits. I assume this is part of a culture and therefor I embrace it. We have discussed this topic many times and am suggesting Venezuelans are no different to anybody else in the current environment.
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Re: V-people; obey the laws or leave!

Postby windsportinperu » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:22 am

adrian Thorne wrote: am suggesting Venezuelans are no different to anybody else in the current environment.


Does Venezuelans have the same bad traits ?
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Re: V-people; obey the laws or leave!

Postby adrian Thorne » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:09 pm

windsportinperu wrote:
adrian Thorne wrote: am suggesting Venezuelans are no different to anybody else in the current environment.


Does Venezuelans have the same bad traits ?


You tell me. I am not an authority on Venezuela. I have two nieces who were born in The country, but they are Nuns and have been sheltered. Woodchuck have listed two examples, and I am sure there are others, as in other countries. The girls father, mother, brother and sister stayed with us for a week at the request of my nieces. During that time no contribution was offered or expected. They had all their meals with us and we cared for them to the extent of even making up the beds every day. They never respected our home, even left the hot water taps turned on in their bathroom. The family as a whole did not respect our hospitality. I am not saying this is representative of the country, only my experience of an individual family from that country.
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Re: V-people; obey the laws or leave!

Postby windsportinperu » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:09 pm

I understand your experience. I hope your bad experience will become better in the future.

I am a man who try to do my best on every aspect of life, and sometimes is hurtful to read that kind of comments, especially if it comes from someone I have a lot respect.

My personal experiences are far better than yours, probably because I know how to deal with some “traits” that you mentioned.

There are millions and millions of hard workers and honest people out there, but I can understand that a minor fraction of them, could damage the effort (and image) of the Majority

Actually, Peru is trying to help as good as it can be to Venezuela, because they need it. Probably some few of them will never say “thanks” but it doesn’t stop the willpower to help them. If we can give something of our wealth to them, is ok
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Re: V-people; obey the laws or leave!

Postby adrian Thorne » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:07 pm

windsportinperu wrote:I understand your experience. I hope your bad experience will become better in the future.

I am a man who try to do my best on every aspect of life, and sometimes is hurtful to read that kind of comments, especially if it comes from someone I have a lot respect.

My personal experiences are far better than yours, probably because I know how to deal with some “traits” that you mentioned.

There are millions and millions of hard workers and honest people out there, but I can understand that a minor fraction of them, could damage the effort (and image) of the Majority

Actually, Peru is trying to help as good as it can be to Venezuela, because they need it. Probably some few of them will never say “thanks” but it doesn’t stop the willpower to help them. If we can give something of our wealth to them, is ok


Hear Hear. I applaud you. I would never tar the majority with the same brush as a minority. You are correct and I have attempted to illustrate that. Yes I have had bad experiences and it does cause scepticism. I do feel there is an underlying fear of confrontation if a minority act takes place, such as sitting in red seats. People will only respect and show consideration if the majority react. This does not reflect on Venezuela any more than Peru or any other country.
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Re: V-people; obey the laws or leave!

Postby woodchuck » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:45 pm

Adrian, I agree 100%.
I am always trying to enfocre the Preferencia regulations as a gringo when native Peruvians seem to look the other way.
I do qualify for Preferencia treatment, but often don't choose to "enforce my rights".
I feel I am " swimming against the tide" by suggesting people give up their bus/train seats when there is a truly needs Preferencia person that needs one.
Some day these people that break the law may need a Preferencia seat & none will be available.
Besides - IT'S THE LAW!
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Re: V-people; obey the laws or leave!

Postby adrian Thorne » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:49 pm

woodchuck wrote:Adrian, I agree 100%.
I am always trying to enfocre the Preferencia regulations as a gringo when native Peruvians seem to look the other way.
I do qualify for Preferencia treatment, but often don't choose to "enforce my rights".
I feel I am " swimming against the tide" by suggesting people give up their bus/train seats when there is a truly needs Preferencia person that needs one.
Some day these people that break the law may need a Preferencia seat & none will be available.
Besides - IT'S THE LAW!


Come on Woodchuck In my home country '' The Law is The Law'' but we are not there and you must accept the fact the law is flexible and subject to interpretation.
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Re: V-people; obey the laws or leave!

Postby woodchuck » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:44 am

I feel there is no "interpretaion" necessary.
In the situations I witnessed, the offending parties were perfectly healthy & didn't need Preferencia seating.
They wanted to sit in the front of the bus & didn't care about the needs of deserving others.

I am not talking about getting a speeding ticket when going 50 in a zone marked 45; then interpretation & other factors might be involved (rushing to the hospital, etc.).
If a person is Preferencia, they deserve all he rights & privileges thereof.
Why have LAWS is they are not enforced for the betterment of an entire country?
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Re: V-people; obey the laws or leave!

Postby mosquitobite » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:15 pm

They may not have that reserved red seat law in Venezuela just like in many first world countries so I’ve seen just a few Gringos doing the same. Disqualifying Venezuelans on this incident is not fair especially considering this law is not even 20 years or maybe 10 before that it was good luck grandma!
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Re: V-people; obey the laws or leave!

Postby asgp » Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:49 pm

We shouldnt generalize, but right now here in Peru V-people arriving are Lower class people, that doenst justify nothing, but it help us to understand.

But I also agree, obey the laws or leave. :!:
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Re: V-people; obey the laws or leave!

Postby Alan » Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:20 pm

I can honestly say that I have had nothing but very good experiences with all the Venezuelans I have met at the stores and restaurants where they work. A few friends are also employing them and they rave about their work ethic. Overall, they seem to be making a good contribution to Peru.
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Re: V-people; obey the laws or leave!

Postby jumpinjack » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:00 pm

Alan wrote:I can honestly say that I have had nothing but very good experiences with all the Venezuelans I have met at the stores and restaurants where they work. A few friends are also employing them and they rave about their work ethic. Overall, they seem to be making a good contribution to Peru.

Hope they are all legal.
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Re: V-people; obey the laws or leave!

Postby Alpineprince » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:40 pm

The one's I have encountered at "Molly's'' have all been very nice and good server's as well!
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Re: V-people; obey the laws or leave!

Postby 69roadrunner » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:20 pm

Alpineprince wrote:The one's I have encountered at "Molly's'' have all been very nice and good server's as well!

Soooo, you are saying you never got "very nice and good server's as well!" Mak
es you wonder why you returned after not so nice and good server's as well!
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Re: V-people; obey the laws or leave!

Postby Alpineprince » Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:16 am

No clue what you are talking about?
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Re: V-people; obey the laws or leave!

Postby lizzym » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:59 am

I was pregnant for nine months in Lima. I was shoved to the side and told that a 40-ish woman in stilettos deserved the seat more than me at 6 months pregnant. I got on lots of full buses at 8 and 9 months pregnant, where I had to stand because they were totally full (ok) and was shoved and elbowed in the belly (not ok). And then when my daughter was born, I had an even harder time finding a seat -- people would actively pretend like they were asleep and didn't see me or hear me, and didn't feel me nudging or shoving them awake to give a seat to a woman carrying a baby and heavy bags. I had to get off more than a few busses because it simply wasn't physically possible. On one bus I almost fell out of the still open door when it left the bus stop, with my daughter in one arm, grasping desperately with the other arm for something to hold on to, while a large bus of people sat by and did nothing -- lots of gasps as we almost fell out, but not one person offered a seat, even after I asked, begged, and then said shame to you all, and finally got off to wait for another bus.

Don't act like it's the Venezuelans y'all. This was 100% a Peruvian thing long before they ever arrived.
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Re: V-people; obey the laws or leave!

Postby Formidable 1 » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:48 am

lizzym wrote:I was pregnant for nine months in Lima. I was shoved to the side and told that a 40-ish woman in stilettos deserved the seat more than me at 6 months pregnant. I got on lots of full buses at 8 and 9 months pregnant, where I had to stand because they were totally full (ok) and was shoved and elbowed in the belly (not ok). And then when my daughter was born, I had an even harder time finding a seat -- people would actively pretend like they were asleep and didn't see me or hear me, and didn't feel me nudging or shoving them awake to give a seat to a woman carrying a baby and heavy bags. I had to get off more than a few busses because it simply wasn't physically possible. On one bus I almost fell out of the still open door when it left the bus stop, with my daughter in one arm, grasping desperately with the other arm for something to hold on to, while a large bus of people sat by and did nothing -- lots of gasps as we almost fell out, but not one person offered a seat, even after I asked, begged, and then said shame to you all, and finally got off to wait for another bus.

Don't act like it's the Venezuelans y'all. This was 100% a Peruvian thing long before they ever arrived.


Just totally boorish and uncivilized behaviour.
Thanks for sharing and best wishes.
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Re: V-people; obey the laws or leave!

Postby asgp » Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:08 pm

Alan wrote:I can honestly say that I have had nothing but very good experiences with all the Venezuelans I have met at the stores and restaurants where they work. A few friends are also employing them and they rave about their work ethic. Overall, they seem to be making a good contribution to Peru.


Thats nice. :D

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