Coping with crime

[Bob]

What is crime really like for expats living in Lima? I’ve heard horror like warnings about how a “gringo” will be gutted like a fish for the change in their pocket. I certainly hope this kind of talk is just extreme exaggeration. I would like to hear some straight reality, on problem areas from actual expats. I personally have never had a problem so far on my vacations to Peru, but my Peruvian wife tells me I'm a target, and she has a sixth sense enabling her to guide me away from problems. I would hate to live a crime nightmare retiring in Peru, but I know my wife would like to retire near all her familly in Peru.

Thanks for any insight and experience you can share!

Bob

[Old Tiger]

Well, Bob your wife is correct, you are a target.. Listen to the woman... However, "gutted like a fish" is just a bit extreame. This is not Rio... Also rest assured that these Peruvian theives will rob their fellow countrymen/women just as fast as you... Having said that, your chances of being robbed vary depending on where you are and when you are there.. Obviousy you can pay to live in a gated community with 24/7 armed security, but that doesn't help you if you are wandering around alone in Rimac or Callao at 2 am....
To give you some background, I do some secuity and guiding here in Lima for guests at a popular Hostel. I am good friends with the owner and thus do this service free during my off time. I hear many stories of robberies perpetrated on the people whom pass thru. Some happened before they arrived, a few during my tenure there. Never once in or near the hostel however. There are usually several thefts a week amoungst a coming and going population of >< 30 some guests. Most are not physically violent robberies, just strong arm/intimidation tactics or snatch and run incidents. Some examples over the past month:
A Londoner was told by a bartender that he had not paid his tab, some 56 soles. I knew he had so I stepped up to his defence. In the process of this confrontation he discovered that someone had cut a 1 cm circular hole in his money bag and emptied it of aproximately another 80 soles. This was done there in the crowded club while he was wearing it on his hip. At this point I asked that we file a denuncia with the police and the bouncers were called in and threw us out of the club.
A traveler returned from Puno with the story that a policeman there approched him, showed him a bag of Marijuna, said he would go to jail for it or give him all his money.... That cost him 50 soles.
Another was strongarmed to a ATM to take out all the cash possible. Fortunately he only had a small amout in the account.
Another londoner has been robbed twice this last week, once on the beach of his backpack, and once on his way to his hostel late in the evening.
A new Zealander on his way to the hostel from the airport late at night was robbed of 250 soles when his taxidriver stopped him in a dark street and 2 men srongarmed him of the cash. Suprisingly they left him with his bags.
Finally, a friend who owns a internet cafe was robbed of all his equipment and cash and the client's present were robbed as well by small group armed with guns who came in separately. His brother and a bystander were robbed in front of me in broad daylight on a busy sidewalk downtown by a group that came off a bus there on the corner. Actually I do not know anyone who lives in Lima who has not been robbed, and more than once.
Some of the advice I give visitors here is not to go out alone, do not go out with more cash than you expect to need. Don't go out with credit/ATM cards you won't use. Go out with photo copies of your passport/ID documents and leave the originals at home. Leave the expensive clothes, jewelry, cameras etc. at home unless you are specifically going somewhere for this. Be vigilent at all times of your surroundings, of overly friendly/helpful people off the street, of things to distract your attention, divert you off to a secluded area... When traveling in a taxi, put your bags in the trunk ( just don't get distracted and forget them! ) Keep any bags, etc in the taxi with you low, out of sight as much as possible to prevent a smash and grab.
Some of this may not apply to your situation, but all this is an example of life in Lima if you intend to live here and actually get out in the city. Certainly some here will say I'm being alarmist, but I live in the real world and cannot afford to live in a tower with armed guards and be driven to gated neighborhoods and countyclubs. You don't have to live here in paranoia, and there is a lot of places you can relax and enjoy all the wonderful things Lima and Peru has to offer. Lastly I say again, listen to your wife, she knows the way it is here! HTH! Good luck, O.T.[/i][/b]

[Guest]

Bob,

I echo "O.T´s" comments that neighborhood and time of day has a lot to do with your chances of getting robbed. You will be fine if you plan well, keep your wits about you and don´t carry more than you mind surrendering. Here is a link to some safety tips that you might find useful:
http://elsol.idiomasperu.com/safety_tips.htm
Saludos,
Alan

[kleph]

while one needs to be a bit more on their guard in peru, i have found the tips law enforcement in the united states give to folks apply here as well. a lot of if is common sense but, when you assume a certain level of security, it is something you tend to forget.

keep alert when you are in public. be aware of your surroundings and who is around you. thieves are looking for people with their guard down.

travel in groups for safety. know your companions. stay in well lit areas. never be complacent in a situation where you feel at all uncomfortable.

being a gringo in peru makes you a target only because there is an assumption you are more likely to have something to steal. what will make you a victim is what makes anyone a victim, if you present an opportunity.

there are specific dangers and problems you encounter in peru but nothing that is insurmountable and certainly not reason to keep one from enjoying themselves while here.

[Bob]

Thanks for the replies! I have another question on this subject, concerning the allowed ability to protect yourself and familly in Peru. Is it possible to get a legal permit to carry a pistol? Is it legal to keep a firearm in your home or apartment for use as defense from crime?

[Old Tiger]

Bob,
I'm no lawyer, so I can't give you too much on this, as well the laws have recently changed.... But since no one here has picked up the ball on this, I get the feeling this is a not much approved idea here. I'll say a few things... One thing I do know is that you need your residency to purchase and possess a firearm here. It needs to be registered etc, similer process as what you'd expect at home. I suggest you have a talk with a gun shop owner here to get the latest and current details, assuming your spanish is up to it... as well perhaps a call to your embassy will shed light on this issue. Good luck, Old Tiger.

[misterhappy]

WOW MAry Jane IN PUNO BY Cops??? Thats Hard To Believe Man.. I know once in Trujillo a Few Years Back i was lost trying to find my friends house And a Guy IN A Taxi in THE Passnger seat asked Me For MY Passport Hes a Cop I Said No How I know Your Not a Fake Then HE Just looked at me And Said Goo ahead,, I should of asked wrote down The License Plate Numbers on The Cab But other then that to Get Bribed Or Shook Down BY Police IN Peru is Very DARN RARE....

Well, Bob your wife is correct, you are a target.. Listen to the woman... However, "gutted like a fish" is just a bit extreame. This is not Rio... Also rest assured that these Peruvina theives will rob their fellow countrymen/women just as fast as you... Having said that, your chances of being robbed vary depending on where you are and when you are there.. Obviousy you can pay to live in a gated community with 24/7 armed security, but that doesn't help you if you are wandering around alone in Rimac or Callao at 2 am....
To give you some background, I do some secuity and guiding here in Lima for guests at a popular Hostel. I am good friends with the owner and thus do this service free during my off time. I hear many stories of robberies perpetrated on the people whom pass thru. Some happened before they arrived, a few during my tenure there. Never once in or near the hostel however. There are usually several thefts a week amoungst a coming and going population of >< 30 some guests. Most are not physically violent robberies, just strong arm/intimidation tactics or snatch and run incidents. Some examples over the past month:
A Londoner was told by a bartender that he had not paid his tab, some 56 soles. I knew he had so I stepped up to his defence. In the process of this confrontation he discovered that someone had cut a 1 cm circular hole in his money bag and emptied it of aproximately another 80 soles. This was done there in the crowded club while he was wearing it on his hip. At this point I asked that we file a denuicia with the police and the bouncers were called in and threw us out of the club.
A traveler returned from Puno with the story that a policeman there approched him, showed him a bag of Marijuna, said he would go to jail for it or give him all his money.... That cost him 50 soles.
Another was strongarmed to a ATM to take out all the cash possible. Fortunately he only had a small amout in the account.
Another londoner has been robbed twice this last week, once on the beach of his backpack, and once on his way to his hostel late in the evening.
A new Zealander on his way to the hostel from the airport late at night was robbed of 250 soles when his taxidriver stopped him in a dark street and 2 men srongarmed him of the cash. Suprisingly they left him with his bags.
Finally, a friend who owns a internet cafe was robbed of all his equipment and cash and the client's present were robbed as well by small group armed with guns who came in separately. His brother and a bystander were robbed in front of me in broad daylight on a busy sidewalk downtown by a group that came off a bus there on the corner. Actually I do not know anyone who lives in Lima who has not been robbed, and more than once.
Some of the advice I give visitors here is not to go out alone, do not go out with more cash than you expect to need. Don't go out with credit/ATM cards you won't use. Go out with photo copies of your passport/ID documents and leave the originals at home. Leave the expensive clothes, jewelry, cameras etc. at home unless you are specifically going somewhere for this. Be vigilent at all times of your surroundings, of overly friendly/helpful people off the street, of things to distract your attention, divert you off to a secluded area... When traveling in a taxi, put your bags in the trunk ( just don't get distracted and forget them! ) Keep any bags, etc in the taxi with you low, out of sight as much as possible to prevent a smash and grab.
Some of this may not apply to your situation, but all this is an example of life in Lima if you intend to live here and actually get out in the city. Certainly some here will say I'm being alarmist, but I live in the real world and cannot afford to live in a tower with armed guards and be driven to gated neighborhoods and countyclubs. You don't have to live here in paranoia, and there is a lot of places you can relax and enjoy all the wonderful things Lima and Peru has to offer. Lastly I say again, listen to your wife, she knows the way it is here! HTH! Good luck, O.T.[/i][/b]

[suecote]

The conclusion I draw from these very interesting accounts is that armed robberies at least are very rare... I am contemplating purchasing some pepper spray/mace in the hope that that will save me 9 times out of 10. I am not at all keen on carrying a firearm, for lots of reasons, but some spray may save the day

[curlyguy18]

The conclusion I draw from these very interesting accounts is that armed robberies at least are very rare... I am contemplating purchasing some pepper spray/mace in the hope that that will save me 9 times out of 10. I am not at all keen on carrying a firearm, for lots of reasons, but some spray may save the day

Hey there, its Junior here. Remember that one time we were in Miraflores and those kids swarmed you and managed to get your wallet out of your pocket? IT WAS CRAZY! They didnt even mess with me cuz I look Peruvian (And I am Peruvian anyways =) so I'm not that much of a target.

Yes, Lima is dangerous and you have to always watch your back. it's bad enough for Peruvians sometimes so it's even worse for gringos since they're supposed to "have a lot of money". Learn your street smarts, stay away from the ghetto places and thou shalt be safe =)

[suecote]

Learn your street smarts, stay away from the ghetto places and thou shalt be safe =)

Is that a guarantee?? Oh I remember. Wonder what people would say if I maced a 10-year-old kid on the street... "Don't taze me, bro!" Well I will be coming back from Miami with some kind of self-defense device, let's see what catches my fancy

[gypsy]

Dress down is the number one rule. I look 'gringo' and have never had a problem. I wear old jeans, inexpensive shoes, a somewhat worn blouse, no jewelry, no makeup.. I strongly suggest that you learn a good sentence and practice it to almost no accent, for it will help to confuse them...

However, in shopping places, they are taught to treat 'gringo's well, for they do, indeed, bring in the dough to buy goodies.

I saw a German guy the other day, walking down Avenida Pardo, and he was, VERY LOUDLY, reciting something I could not understand, walking around in his sneakers and backpack. He sounded like he belonged in an asylum--GOOD TACTIC!

gypsy

[curlyguy18]

Learn your street smarts, stay away from the ghetto places and thou shalt be safe =)

Is that a guarantee?? Oh I remember. Wonder what people would say if I maced a 10-year-old kid on the street... "Don't taze me, bro!" Well I will be coming back from Miami with some kind of self-defense device, let's see what catches my fancy

Hey man, I think you should get the tazer!!!! =)

[curlyguy18]

Dress down is the number one rule. I look 'gringo' and have never had a problem. I wear old jeans, inexpensive shoes, a somewhat worn blouse, no jewelry, no makeup.. I strongly suggest that you learn a good sentence and practice it to almost no accent, for it will help to confuse them...

However, in shopping places, they are taught to treat 'gringo's well, for they do, indeed, bring in the dough to buy goodies.

I saw a German guy the other day, walking down Avenida Pardo, and he was, VERY LOUDLY, reciting something I could not understand, walking around in his sneakers and backpack. He sounded like he belonged in an asylum--GOOD TACTIC!

gypsy

You're right, gypsy. It's all about appereances sometimes. Anyone that looks "gringo" is a target and they're all supposed to have tons of money. I even have gringo looking Peruvian friends that are targets.