when you invite a Peruvian to a restaurant lunch or dinner

[randomperson]

Why is it that the invitee often inexplicably shows up with an unexpected guest? Is this common with just the lower-class? do they not think it's offensive? It is so awkward, distracting and changes the dynamics of the meeting.

I've read about this so-called custom and didn't think anything of it until it happened to me. Oh and the host is expected to pick up the tab for the surprise guest-I forgot to mention this detail.

Has this happened to anyone else?

[tupacperu]

If it is a female, they usually travel with friends or family when meeting people, Lima is a dangerous place for people walking alone. You get off easy.. lol. When we visit family in Chiclayo, the TAB is on me, not only family, but the neighbors invite themselves. SO I come prepared with deep pockets , also stay in a hotel rather than the family home or they may get me for Breakfast, lunch and dinner...

[chi chi]

If you invite a girl for a date then it's common that she brings along a friend or a relative. This for safety reasons.

In the Philippines, girls bring along a male friend when you invite them for a date. Simply for security reasons.

[KenBE]

Personally I think it is kind of disrespectful. They probably do this because you are a gringo and you have "plata" so you can afford to pay for everyone. I don't think they would do this with a poor Peruvian. I think the Peruvians themselves call this type of behavior "ser conchudo".

[tupacperu]

I do not find it disrespectful. It is for safety reasons. My wife when I met her would bring her sister along.
This was for safety from point A to point B (arriving to dinner). Besides take them to a place that serves MENU, that is about 3 soles per plate... lol

[KenBE]

I do not find it disrespectful. It is for safety reasons. My wife when I met her would bring her sister along.
This was for safety from point A to point B (arriving to dinner). Besides take them to a place that serves MENU, that is about 3 soles per plate... lol

It depends I guess. Maybe in some cases it is for safety reasons as you say, but I am sure at least some poor Peruvians also just do it to take advantage of the gringo. After all "los gringos tienen plata" so it shouldn't be a big deal for them to pay for everyone, right?. I am not saying that all or even most Peruvians are like this, but yeah, some are. And if it is for safety reasons they can at least let you know first that they will bring someone else or the uninvited guest can pay for his/her own dinner (after all you didn't invite them).

[randomperson]

My situation had nothing to do with "safety". The invitee was a male and this was a business meeting in broad daylight at a well-known restaurant. The surprise guest had no knowledge of the business topic and nothing to contribute besides ordering everything on the menu and scowling. Needless to say, it was awkward!

I think KenBe is spot on with the conchudez/criollada mentality of many Peruvians.

Update: this clueless clown doesn't get why I avoid his calls and we are not "doing business".

[Alan]

My situation had nothing to do with "safety". The invitee was a male and this was a business meeting in broad daylight at a well-known restaurant. The surprise guest had no knowledge of the business topic and nothing to contribute besides ordering everything on the menu and scowling. Needless to say, it was awkward!

I think KenBe is spot on with the conchudez/criollada mentality of many Peruvians.

Update: this clueless clown doesn't get why I avoid his calls and we are not "doing business".

Wow. That´s not common at all. I would re-evaluate your invitee; he showed a tremendous lack of criteria. You would not have been out of place to have them pay their part.

[digit]

Your report, randomperson, seems to be a first time, one time thing. Seems a little harsh to condemn a person let alone an culture based on one meeting.

[randomperson]

Your report, randomperson, seems to be a first time, one time thing. Seems a little harsh to condemn a person let alone an culture based on one meeting.

I'm not a recent arrival, btw, and I posted this egregious example after noticing a pattern. Also, I'm not condemning a culture as I married it!

[mammamia]

Your report, randomperson, seems to be a first time, one time thing. Seems a little harsh to condemn a person let alone an culture based on one meeting.

I'm not a recent arrival, btw, and I posted this egregious example after noticing a pattern. Also, I'm not condemning a culture as I married it!

Then just take it as "a package deal" as teamoperu suggests.

[chi chi]

My situation had nothing to do with "safety". The invitee was a male and this was a business meeting in broad daylight at a well-known restaurant. The surprise guest had no knowledge of the business topic and nothing to contribute besides ordering everything on the menu and scowling. Needless to say, it was awkward!

Update: this clueless clown doesn't get why I avoid his calls and we are not "doing business".

Sounds like he was up to much more that just bringing along a friend to eat at your expense. For sure, if you continued to do business with him, he would have scammed you. He gave himself away and you noticed it.

[timothy]

Always being 'the visitor' it has been my sort of obligation to pick up the tab.

If I invite, no problem. Always a pleasure to pick up the tab for a friend.

But what I don't like is the occasional obvious set-up when your guest brings someone who's task it seems to be is to order everything on the menu. Usually not when you invite someone you are better acquainted with, but when you invite some new acquaintance on a casual date for lunch or dinner and she brings the Evil Sister or Evil Friend.

Your 'date' will go over the menu lightly and order sparingly, but the Evil Twin will order 4 or 5 appetizers and 3 or 4 main dishes. And then take a single disapproving bite out of each one and push it aside.

With nothing to be done, you pay the bill, smile, and say "Hasta la vista, baby." Then get up and leave alone.

[chi chi]

The OP should have said to his businesspartner and guest that he's going outside for a minute for a smoke and then disappear. So they will have to pay the bill.

I was a businesslunch anyway so that means you have to do business. And doing business means getting a lot of money without doing anything instead for it.

I would have done that.

[teamoperu]

The OP should have said to his businesspartner and guest that he's going outside for a minute for a smoke and then disappear. So they will have to pay the bill.

I was a businesslunch anyway so that means you have to do business. And doing business means getting a lot of money without doing anything instead for it.

I would have done that.

Well chi chi, if that is what you would have done, and I believe you are the kind that would have, then it appears you would have done something cowardly, run away from a problem rather than dealing with it like a grown man.

And worse, what a dishonest thing to do, run away without paying your share of the bill and stick it to someone else! A sad comment on your ethical values.

Re: the OP. How best to deal with this situation? Deal with it up front and communicate. If you see the situation developing (and you suggested it is not the first time) then proactively discuss it with the participants of the business meeting. You could say “I only have the money to pay for my own meal”. (Maybe someone here could offer a better phase?). Or alternatively when the bill arrives only put out the money to cover your meal and then wait silently.

Again, maybe someone else can offer a better way to handle it (other than running away like a coward and not paying your share of the bill)?

[ironchefchris]

When the waiter approaches the table with the menus take charge of the situation in a subtle way. Mention so that all at the table can hear that you'd like the bill split into separate checks. One for you and your business associate or anyone else you choose to pay for, and another for any (uninvited) guests that you don't plan on paying for. "Two separate checks please. One for my associate, (name) and I, and a separate check for, ... I'm sorry, I've forgotten your name (reinforces they are a stranger to you)..."

Say it with confidence, as if it were completely normal to split the bill, is such a small thing and nothing that deserves further conversation, and quickly return the subject back to what you were talking about or some other topic unrelated to the bill.

[adrian Thorne]

As mentioned before by others. I have always been landed with the bill for a table full of people who were not invited. It is a shame because it reaches a point where you apply the good old British phrase "If in doubt don't" and so you stop inviting or attending when the suggestion is made.
I was faced with the situation once and being honest and up front I told the four uninvited guests together with the one person I had invited, as soon as they arrived, I do not have sufficient cash and do not carry my credit cards. They accepted this. One suddenly had an important meeting, but the rest paid for their own meal and we had a great time.

[gringo from uk]

Hi. I believe You are successful business person and hopefully don't mind to pay the costs, even if the person invites him self. It is not common practice usually. people respect other peoples money.

[randomperson]

OP here.....I feel blessed by the experience as this encounter served as a solvency and character filter early on rather than after I bought the farm, so to speak. The restaurant bill-which I fully anticipated minus the surprise- is just the cost of doing business.

I felt that it was germane to post this here because I'm apparently not the the only one who has observed this anti-social Peruvian custom that is best summed up as a conchudez and a criollada which is practiced by a few, but not all Peruvians.

Another appropriate term which comes to mind is "verguenza ajena".

[chi chi]

I don't understand the concept of businesslunches.

Business meetings are done in a meeting room or an office not in a restaurant.

If the meeting takes a whole day then stop at noon and agree to start meeting again at 1pm. And the people who take part in the meeting eat their lunch where they want.
If someone wants to splash out in a Michelin starred restaurant and eat lobster and drink a bottle of champagne then fair play to him. But if someone else prefers to grab a sarnie at Subway and someone else prefers to eat his lunchpacket that he brought with him from home then they should be allowed to.

Neither do I understand why the staff at some companies has to eat grubby slop at the staffcanteen whilst the directors eat at a gastronomic restaurants. Are the staff animals or something?

Anyway, expensive businesslunches are on their way down in this economic climate.
A friend of mine runs a sandwichshop in Manchester and she does a lot of deliveries nowadays to a nearby industrial estate to deliver sándwiches, salads and fresh soup to the people attending business meetings and her sandwichbar is visited by many people in suit and tie nowadays. Before the economic crisis, most customers wore overalls and muddy boots.

The gastronomic restaurant around the corner went bust years ago. It was used to be a popular place for businesslunches.

[ironchefchris]

Nothing says business has to be discussed in a meeting room or office, but you did say that you don't understand the concept of business lunches, and from your posts you seem to suggest you have no actual business to actually discuss with others, so I understand why you wouldn't be aware of how many people actually conduct their business meetings. Business is discussed where the participants desire to discuss their business. It's likely that more business is conducted by high level executives on a golf course or at a private club than in an office. I used to work for a guy who liked to set up his "office" in the bar nearest to the location where he was producing a show which is where he held daily production meetings. I've discussed business with people in cars, on the beach, in bars, in a yacht club, hiking in a National Park, even a dusty field in the middle of nowhere Tennessee. Sometimes I've even discussed business in a restaurant over lunch.

[chi chi]

It's likely that more business is conducted by high level executives on a golf course or at a private club than in an office.

Disgusting. Whilst the staff are working their behind off, they go playing golf. Why don't they let the staff play a round of golf whilst the executives go slaving themselves out on the shopfloor. It would be good for staff moral and keeps them motivated. Much better for the business than the executives showing off to the employees.
I was used to work for an airline and a few times a year, the management team including the CEO had to spend a few days a year on the workfloor. They had to clean aircrafts, sort out the catering and help with loading baggage. As they didn't have a cabin crew licence, they weren't allowed to work as a flight attendant or wear a flight attendants' uniform but they had to work as a galley slave during the flight and wear civil clothing.
Most CEO's and managers don't know what working means. Sipping coffee in the office all day and standing in the staff their way isn't working.

[ironchefchris]

Who says "staff" can't play golf? I have plenty of friends who you would consider to be "staff" who play on a regular basis. One friend is so into golf he even got a job at his local golf course. The rest play on their off time from work as they aren't professional golfers and golf isn't part of their job description so they aren't getting paid to play. They get paid to do other things by the companies they work for (graphic designer, actuary, low level architect for a large firm, sales administration/desk jockey) and aren't sales people or have jobs where they'd be responsible for the types of decisions executives might make with fellow executives on the golf course, but they're happy with what they do and that they have work which pays them a decent enough wage to be able to play golf when they aren't working. If they were paid to play golf during business hours the tasks they are paid for would go undone.

Thanks for the laugh on telling us about people who don't know what it means to work. I would think you are in expert in that topic - not working. You're probably right though. An airline executive may not know how to serve a meal onboard a flight, but that's not what they're paid to do, just as you don't know how to maximize company revenue/profit by deciding fares or policy because that wasn't what your job was. If it wasn't for the owner making a deal on the golf course to sell his or her companies product or service there just might be any jobs for his or her staff at all.

[timothy]

The person that wrote the entry moaning about 'the bosses playing golf while the workers toil' is obviously a mis-guided communist far out of touch with the modern world, with all those silly rants about 'democratic prices' and 'total equality in the workplace'. Sorry, but communism was a failed social experiment.

Maybe you should give Venezuela a try? Seems to be a better fit for your social conscience.

[chi chi]

Sorry, but communism was a failed social experiment.

The Chinese economy is the best in the world and China is a communist country.

Capitalism is crumbling.

Back to the topic;

I think that when people go for a business lunch then they should go ''Dutch''.

Same with dates. When I just met my gf. Although a 5 soles menú isn't a lot of money to me and I offered to pay the entire bill, she still insisted to pay for her own food. I am sure that there are few chicas like her in Peru.

[ironchefchris]

Chi chi. You admit you know nothing about how business lunches operate and prove it with every post. If I want your or your companies business, I am not going to give you the impression that I'm cheap by asking you to go "Dutch." If you want my business and are trying to sell me on you or your company and ask me to go "Dutch" on lunch, guess what? You've failed as a business person. You've given me a bad impression (you want my business and can't even woo me by paying for lunch?) of you and/or your company and won't be getting my business. You may disagree, perhaps because you have no experience in these things, but in reality that's how it works.

[chi chi]

Chi chi. You admit you know nothing about how business lunches operate and prove it with every post. If I want your or your companies business, I am not going to give you the impression that I'm cheap by asking you to go "Dutch." If you want my business and are trying to sell me on you or your company and ask me to go "Dutch" on lunch, guess what? You've failed as a business person. You've given me a bad impression (you want my business and can't even woo me by paying for lunch?) of you and/or your company and won't be getting my business. You may disagree, perhaps because you have no experience in these things, but in reality that's how it works.

Why should you take a businesspartner out for lunch in the first place? You can meet him in the morning or afternoon.
And if the business meeting takes all day then you stop at noon and tell your businesspartner that you'll be back at 1pm. Or you call the local sándwich delivery shop and order a few sándwiches and eat at the office or staff canteen.
I personally trust someone who does that more than someone who splashes out loads of money on a lunch. Someone who splashes out a lot of money on lunch wants to make me feel guilty for not doing business with him ''because he bought me a lunch''. I am not a dog, who becomes the friend of everyone who gives him a bit of food.

And someone who splashes out a lot of money by inviting all his businesspartners for lunch isn't someone who's relialbe. If he splashes a lot of money on business lunches then I am wondering how he's dealing with the finances of the business. For sure, he's wasting money on other useless things as well.

The other risk is that if you easily invite people for a free lunch then people will take advantage of that and like in the OP's case, the invited guest will bring their friends or relatives to eat at your expense as well.

[timothy]

Sorry, but communism was a failed social experiment.

The Chinese economy is the best in the world and China is a communist country.

Capitalism is crumbling.

Back to the topic;

I think that when people go for a business lunch then they should go ''Dutch''.

Same with dates. When I just met my gf. Although a 5 soles menú isn't a lot of money to me and I offered to pay the entire bill, she still insisted to pay for her own food. I am sure that there are few chicas like her in Peru.

Same with dates? What do you have written on your forehead? "I only go Dutch" or was it your Communist Party button that told her she had to cough up 2.5 soles for the pleasure of your company. Most MEN would not have only offered to pick up that huge 5 Sole check, no, most MEN simply would have happily paid without comment.

As mentioned in the previous post, you obviously have no grasp about acceptable business perks, responsibilities, and generally accepted practices. But of course, one has to 'work' before he can understand.

Re: China. It will go the way of the old Soviet Union. The mere fact that they are making new non-communist concessions every day predicts their gradual transition to some form of Good Old Fashioned Capitalism. (Sorry, OP).

[chi chi]

Same with dates? What do you have written on your forehead? "I only go Dutch" or was it your Communist Party button that told her she had to cough up 2.5 soles for the pleasure of your company. Most MEN would not have only offered to pick up that huge 5 Sole check, no, most MEN simply would have happily paid without comment.

I didn't mind to pay that 'huge' 5 soles check (it was my intention after all) but she insisted that she paid her part. I think she didn't want to come over as a 'brichera'.

Not all chicas are emptyheaded bricheras who think that all gringos are loaded like Donald Trump.

[ironchefchris]

chi chi. Who said that a business lunch has to be expensive or that anyone is splashing money around? I've had business lunches at democratically priced food trucks. It cracks me up that someone who is anti-capitalist purports to best know how capitalists should run their business or even how business is done when from the sounds of your posts you've never even been in a position where you would be involved in any kind of business lunch or meeting. It's like the Chinese government lecturing other nations on human rights abuses or religious extremists lecturing others on tolerance. Other than collecting government checks, being a flight attendant, or working as a cook, the only other thing I've read you doing is running a laundry business that is no longer operating. Why am I not surprised that you went out of business? Do flight attendants, cooks, and those who don't work and collect a government check even have business lunches or meetings to discuss business?

I've paid for business lunches and have had others buy me lunch. No one ever feels as if they are a dog or felt guilted into doing business because some guy who wants my business bought my sandwich or drinks while we discussed business. It's simply how business is often conducted, and again, though you may not like it for whatever reason, that is the reality of the situation. You truly do not know how things work, but should you ever find yourself in a position where you are trying to gain someone's business, feel free to tell them you'll continue your discussion after you break separately for lunch, or take them to the cheapest place you can find and then tell them they're paying for their own lunch and see if you get their business or if you never hear from them again. As far as the OP, you state the risk of the invitee bringing unwanted guests to lunch and this is a negative (you called it a risk). That's one thing you got right. It probably left a bad impression on the OP. It would leave a bad impression on me, enough that I might not want to do business with that person, just like your suggestions would leave a bad impression and cause me not to want to give you my business. I understand being frugal when you are living on a government check and how you might go "Dutch" when you go to lunch with someone else living on a government check, but that's not really considered a business lunch.

[adrian Thorne]

I remember the good old days when I was issued with a Amex. At that time other cards did not exist and very few restaurants took Amex. So I had to ask for petty cash to pay the lunch bill. It was like getting blood out of a stone. I was always on tender hooks waiting for the final bill and invariably it was more than I had been given. Digging deep into my pockets I managed to find the balance. Returning to the office my boss would congratulate me on my success and then proceed to scold me for over spending on lunch. I cannot imagine what would have happened with a culture like Peru.

[ironchefchris]

I just got back from a ceviche lunch where a friend of a friend who's starting a business that relies on tourism wanted to pick my brain about gringos and gringo culture. Guess who paid? When the bill came she paid it, without hesitation or any discussion. On the walk home I came up with a great idea for you, chi chi. It pays a lot better than working as a flight attendant, a cook at a ski resort or a diner, or collecting government assistance checks. Since you are so sagacious when it comes to business and capitalism in general, you should set yourself up as a business consultant and tell companies how to more effectively run their businesses. You can take them out to lunch, tell them of your business credentials, background, and successes, and then get them to pay the bill. That could be their first consultation/lesson.

[chi chi]

Since you are so sagacious when it comes to business and capitalism in general, you should set yourself up as a business consultant and tell companies how to more effectively run their businesses. You can take them out to lunch, tell them of your business credentials, background, and successes, and then get them to pay the bill. That could be their first consultation/lesson.

Thanks ironchefs. I just went to the local bookshops and bought the Michelin Guide and I am picking out the restaurants that have Michelin stars where I can conduct my ''consultation/lesson''. Of course, I won't show up alone but my gf will be the ''uninvited guest''.

[teamoperu]

Same with dates? What do you have written on your forehead? "I only go Dutch" or was it your Communist Party button that told her she had to cough up 2.5 soles for the pleasure of your company. Most MEN would not have only offered to pick up that huge 5 Sole check, no, most MEN simply would have happily paid without comment.

I didn't mind to pay that 'huge' 5 soles check (it was my intention after all) but she insisted that she paid her part. I think she didn't want to come over as a 'brichera'.

Not all chicas are emptyheaded bricheras who think that all gringos are loaded like Donald Trump.

She doesn't know how lucky she was. You only made her pay S/.5 soles for her meal. Little did she know you might have been considering going for a smoke, running away, and stiffing her for the whole bill (as you posted you would above).

[chi chi]

I didn't mind to pay that 'huge' 5 soles check (it was my intention after all) but she insisted that she paid her part. I think she didn't want to come over as a 'brichera'.

Not all chicas are emptyheaded bricheras who think that all gringos are loaded like Donald Trump.

She doesn't know how lucky she was. You only made her pay S/.5 soles for her meal. Little did she know you might have been considering going for a smoke, running away, and stiffing her for the whole bill (as you posted you would above).[/quote]

I haven't been to Cuba for a while so I ran out of cigars. Smuggling cigars and selling them to Yankees was used to be a good business but thanks to Obama this lucrative business is gone down the drain as well as Americans can now travel freely to Cuba and bring cigars back home.

[Sergio Bernales]

I didn't mind to pay that 'huge' 5 soles check (it was my intention after all) but she insisted that she paid her part. I think she didn't want to come over as a 'brichera'.

Not all chicas are emptyheaded bricheras who think that all gringos are loaded like Donald Trump.

She doesn't know how lucky she was. You only made her pay S/.5 soles for her meal. Little did she know you might have been considering going for a smoke, running away, and stiffing her for the whole bill (as you posted you would above).

I haven't been to Cuba for a while so I ran out of cigars. Smuggling cigars and selling them to Yankees was used to be a good business but thanks to Obama this lucrative business is gone down the drain as well as Americans can now travel freely to Cuba and bring cigars back home.[/quote]

And back in the day, you ran with Nucky Johnson, but he'd always pick up the tab.

[teamoperu]

I didn't mind to pay that 'huge' 5 soles check (it was my intention after all) but she insisted that she paid her part. I think she didn't want to come over as a 'brichera'.

Not all chicas are emptyheaded bricheras who think that all gringos are loaded like Donald Trump.

She doesn't know how lucky she was. You only made her pay S/.5 soles for her meal. Little did she know you might have been considering going for a smoke, running away, and stiffing her for the whole bill (as you posted you would above).

I haven't been to Cuba for a while so I ran out of cigars. Smuggling cigars and selling them to Yankees was used to be a good business but thanks to Obama this lucrative business is gone down the drain as well as Americans can now travel freely to Cuba and bring cigars back home.

And back in the day, you ran with Nucky Johnson, but he'd always pick up the tab.[/quote]

"thanks to Obama this lucrative business is gone down the drain as well as Americans can now ... bring cigars back home." This is incorrect, the blockade remains in place as a negotiating ploy.

[chi chi]

the blockade remains in place as a negotiating ploy.

The blockage is biggest act of terrorism commited in history. The US government has been taken the Cuban people hostage for over 50 years. The US government has to pay compensation to every single Cuban.

[adrian Thorne]

Can we please go back to topic or start a new one to discuss Cuba.

[teamoperu]

Your standard operating procedure of going out for a smoke and running away to avoid paying your share of the restaurant bill may not be such a great idea with Mr Enoch Johnson. He had people to find you and make you "pay".

[chi chi]

In case you are willing to pay the bill for a businesslunch then the best way is to get sándwiches, pizza and a bottle of Inca Cola delivered to the office so you know in advance what you are going to pay.
The other advantage of that is that you don't waste time to go to a restaurant and won't rish a slow service so that you will be losing time by getting back late at the office.

[Sergio Bernales]

My situation had nothing to do with "safety". The invitee was a male and this was a business meeting in broad daylight at a well-known restaurant. The surprise guest had no knowledge of the business topic and nothing to contribute besides ordering everything on the menu and scowling. Needless to say, it was awkward!

I think KenBe is spot on with the conchudez/criollada mentality of many Peruvians.

Update: this clueless clown doesn't get why I avoid his calls and we are not "doing business".

It's not just in Peru. It's all over Latin America. In Argentina, they call it viveza criolla.

[teamoperu]

In case you are willing to pay the bill for a businesslunch then the best way is to get sándwiches, pizza and a bottle of Inca Cola delivered to the office so you know in advance what you are going to pay.

A way better idea is when the delivery comes just go to the washroom and stick the bill to someone else.