Atheist Group

Answers to your qestions about moving to, and living in, Peru,
Comet

Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:55 pm

I have noticed that there appear to be groups here which cover almost every conceivable lifestyle....I would be interested in forming an Atheist group and hearing from like-minded people.


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Re: Atheist Group

Postby Polaron » Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:14 pm

Count me in!
Professional, bilingual writer at your service.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby fanning » Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:51 pm

Count me out !!
Comet

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:34 pm

fanning wrote:Count me out !!


1 ..2..3..4..5..6..7..8..9..10..OUT ! And the winner and new champion is Reason !
DC_20833

Re: Atheist Group

Postby DC_20833 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:53 am

I like God and I can tell you I have experienced many blessings in my life because of my relationship with God.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby american_in_lima » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:20 am

Comet wrote:I have noticed that there appear to be groups here which cover almost every conceivable lifestyle....I would be interested in forming an Atheist group and hearing from like-minded people.


Let me understand this one. You want to start an Athiest group? If all members in your group agree that "God does not exist", then, what can your group really talk about on a forum? I guess you could talk about how a Thiest is really off track and how Christians and other religions impose their lifestyle upon you? Sounds like complete negativity for a group to be started on this site.

While I am for you speaking your mind, I am against any group that brings negativity to the site. The other groups here on the site, add value and are positive influences.

Interested in your thoughts.

Can I get an Amen from others on this site? LOL
Regards,

George
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby american_in_lima » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:23 am

Not sure how or why my remarks posted three times.
Regards,

George
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby americorps » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:53 am

I am not an atheist, but I think you should feel free and unbullied to start an atheist group and post it on the board.

I guess some feel otherwise. I feel bad that sort of environment exists here, but I think by and large the majority of people are not bullies and will leave you in peace.

Living in Peru, religion is forced upon you and having a place to discuss the impact of that, and a place free of that is more than reasonable. I was once in the Municipality of San Borja and was scolded by a clerk for not crossing myself as I passed in front of the Virgin. I said I was not Catholic and she said I should do it anyway because I am in Peru. Of course, not being shy, I reminded her that her Constitution favored Peru as a secular country and religion was not required. She told me then the service I needed was not available that day and maybe I should come back another day. I happened to know her boss, so I just walked behind her desk and told her what happened, did my business with her boss and next time I came back, she was like yes sir.

That incident alone tells me that atheists can feel very persecuted her in Peru and I think it is completely absurd that you should be bullied here in the board.

My sister is Wiccan and her motto...

Do as you will and harm no one....

I like that idea.. and do not find it counter to my faith.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby american_in_lima » Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:10 am

By the way, I am not against an athiest group. I am against any group that is based on negativity. If they can have a group that is based on positive things, then good for them. It's their time on this planet, not mine.

I just don't understand the following: If they all agree that God does not exist....then what is there to talk about on a forum?
Regards,

George
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby americorps » Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:23 am

Look at the response they got on this board for the concept.

Notice that in every government office in Peru, they are faced with virgins and crucifixes and yes, even prayers.

Look at mandatory prayer in schools, religious surpremacy is all around.

I can not tell you how many times my fellow loving christians would tell me because I am Gay or an atheist how sad they are that they are going to hell. Things like that tend to create a common bond and experience and people with common bonds and experiences often like to get together and share them.

If they invite you to an atheist get together, you look with horror or confusion, but how often do they have to smile and politely decline a push to go to mass or a church service?

I doubt very much atheist groups get together to discuss a disbelief in God, but how their common bond effects the response of others. I imagine, however, much like the LGBT get togethers, they mostly discuss movies, what they like about Peru, what drives them crazy, where they are from, what they plan to do on their next vacation and assorted topics like that. Tell jokes, share friendship and from time to time talk about how others react to their beliefs.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby Remigius » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:33 am

I'm ambidextrous. Can we create a group for those too?
Comet

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:58 am

american_in_lima wrote:
Comet wrote:I have noticed that there appear to be groups here which cover almost every conceivable lifestyle....I would be interested in forming an Atheist group and hearing from like-minded people.


Let me understand this one. You want to start an Athiest group? If all members in your group agree that "God does not exist", then, what can your group really talk about on a forum? I guess you could talk about how a Thiest is really off track and how Christians and other religions impose their lifestyle upon you? Sounds like complete negativity for a group to be started on this site.

While I am for you speaking your mind, I am against any group that brings negativity to the site. The other groups here on the site, add value and are positive influences.

Interested in your thoughts.

Can I get an Amen from others on this site? LOL


There is nothing negative about free-thinking people getting together to discuss normal things!
I would argue that religion has more cause for negativity than the abscence of religion and other supersticions....your comments are not too far away from the Taliban ideology....
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby Kelly » Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:00 am

american_in_lima wrote:Not sure how or why my remarks posted three times.


Fixed for you.


I fail to see how starting an atheist group has brought or will bring any negativity to the board. The only negativity I've seen is in the responses.

Just like any other group of like minded individuals, if it's not something that interests you, don't join in! Simple as.

Obviously, the atheist group will not meet to discuss atheism here on the board. However, just like any other group of like minded individuals (Women and wine, Book swap group, LGBT, business owners, ACAP - whatever) they are more than welcome to use the board to find each other and arrange meet ups. Read the forum guidelines, you'll find that's what the forum's here for.

What the forum isn't here for is to attack anyone for their religious beliefs.
Comet

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:04 am

americorps wrote:I am not an atheist, but I think you should feel free and unbullied to start an atheist group and post it on the board.

I guess some feel otherwise. I feel bad that sort of environment exists here, but I think by and large the majority of people are not bullies and will leave you in peace.

Living in Peru, religion is forced upon you and having a place to discuss the impact of that, and a place free of that is more than reasonable. I was once in the Municipality of San Borja and was scolded by a clerk for not crossing myself as I passed in front of the Virgin. I said I was not Catholic and she said I should do it anyway because I am in Peru. Of course, not being shy, I reminded her that her Constitution favored Peru as a secular country and religion was not required. She told me then the service I needed was not available that day and maybe I should come back another day. I happened to know her boss, so I just walked behind her desk and told her what happened, did my business with her boss and next time I came back, she was like yes sir.

That incident alone tells me that atheists can feel very persecuted her in Peru and I think it is completely absurd that you should be bullied here in the board.

My sister is Wiccan and her motto...

Do as you will and harm no one....

I like that idea.. and do not find it counter to my faith.

Exactly...I am somewhat dissappointed to see that the moderators allow attacks on people for their beliefs or lack of.....nobody has lambasted; gay groups, wiccan groups, religious groups etc...so why permit attacks on this one?
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby Kelly » Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:06 am

Do you not see my post right above yours? :)
Comet

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:14 am

Kelly wrote:Do you not see my post right above yours? :)


Ha ha well I do now ..thanks
Comet

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:21 am

Remigius wrote:I'm ambidextrous. Can we create a group for those too?


You might need two groups in that case :D
Comet

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:22 am

DC_20833 wrote:I like God and I can tell you I have experienced many blessings in my life because of my relationship with God.


Speechless !
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby alan » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:02 pm

Hi..

I just want to point out that Comet wants to set up a group of Atheists off the board. Sounds like a reasonable idea and would do nothing to affect how things function here.

Religion (and politics) is a touchy subject that we shouldn´t be surprised it generates strong responses.


Cheers,
Alan
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby americorps » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:24 pm

Me, of all people, who is not even an Atheist...has to ask

Are you suggesting that they are not welcome ON the board simply because their presence makes some who disagree with them uncomfortable?
Comet

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:46 pm

americorps wrote:Me, of all people, who is not even an Atheist...has to ask

Are you suggesting that they are not welcome ON the board simply because their presence makes some who disagree with them uncomfortable?


Shocking in the 21st century...but that would appear to be the case! Everyone else is free to have a group here...but (arguably) the most rational and reasonable group seem to be unwelcome.!
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby Kelly » Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:10 pm

Really? You have to ask that? I find it hard to believe that you would misinterpret Alan's comment so completely.

The ExpatPeru Discussion Forum is here to answer questions, arrange meet-ups, and generate friendly conversation amongst foreigners who are living or traveling in Peru. Topics on this board should be relevant to Peru or to the Expat experience here.


Of course an atheist group is welcome on the board, same as any other group. Setting up a group and arranging meet ups is awesome. As stated, that's why we're here. However, the Expat Discussion forum isn't here to have debates and discussions about atheism - it's completely off topic.

If you'd like to discuss the difficulty of being an atheist in Peru, by all means, that conversation is welcome - in the News and Views forum.

We actually had a groups forum, where group discussions of this type were welcome, and it saw little to no use.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby stuart » Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:19 pm

As an atheist I identify with much of what Kevin (Americorps) says about the pressure felt by religion being forced on you at every turn. I personally couldn't care less about seeing religious paraphernalia everywhere, but I do care about the gentle pushes and shoves towards religious thought by those under the influence of the powerful drug that is giving up fears and worries to fictitious sky-beings who love and protect them. Although I don't mind one bit how they ease this harshness of life with spirituality, I resent it being pushed on me. I'd like to have a magical being to believe in that will make all my suffering worth it in the end, but I much prefer the clarity of living outside the "matrix".

I'm not in agreement with George (american in lima) that feeling vaguely uncomfortable about my way of thinking being questioned so rudely so often and wanting to talk about it with others in a group (in theory) is negative. I do understand where you are coming from George, that atheists, by sheer definition of the word, are against the idea of believing in a god, and that may be negative to those that do. But understand that a theist talking about god may be just as negative to someone who sees logic and reason as more important of than the comfort of "belief". When you consider "belief" is the act of telling yourself something is true despite all reason, that "reason" involves balancing facts to establish at least a strong possibility of an evident truth... that sounds pretty negative to me when it is preached to others by theists as something in any way good.

Quite separately,

Comet: Chill my friend. You come across as slightly angered and looking to spar-off against "them", the "authority" of the moderator and those who don't think like you. This shows through in not only what you say and how you say it, but in your posts' signature. It may be the vibes you give off that cause people to react negatively to what you say. Perhaps american_in_lima would have congratulated you on your idea for a atheists club if you explained it more like I did. What do you think?

And bare in mind, that people like DC_20833 have a completely natural and legitimate way of dealing with their problems and life in general than us free-thinking logic-driven people. They live longer than us and in many cases live happier lives. Life is far obviously easier when you "know" that an all-knowing all-forgiving being is on your side and that it has a plan for you. It is, after all, why we as humans evolved a sense of spirituality!
Comet

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:15 pm

OK Stuart..very well put on all of your points. My signature is actually not at all what you think...its a song from a Marx Brothers film sung by Groucho..funny but of no significance .
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby americorps » Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:24 pm

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Re: Atheist Group

Postby american_in_lima » Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:39 pm

stuart wrote:I'm not in agreement with George (american in lima) that feeling vaguely uncomfortable about my way of thinking being questioned so rudely so often and wanting to talk about it with others in a group (in theory) is negative. I do understand where you are coming from George, that atheists, by sheer definition of the word, are against the idea of believing in a god, and that may be negative to those that do. But understand that a theist talking about god may be just as negative to someone who sees logic and reason as more important of than the comfort of "belief". When you consider "belief" is the act of telling yourself something is true despite all reason, that "reason" involves balancing facts to establish at least a strong possibility of an evident truth... that sounds pretty negative to me when it is preached to others by theists as something in any way good.


Stuart: For the record, I am against a "negative" group of any kind...But if an athiest group can be positive about their beliefes, I am all for it. One of my best friends when I was a student at Oxford is an athiest. One of the nicest people you could ever meet.

I am not uncomfortable by it at all in having an Athiest group here on the site. I believe that there is a God, but at the same time, I can not expect others to believe that. I also don't want others to believe everything that I believe...How boring would life be if that were the case?

I think my point was taken a bit out of context, but hopefully that helps clarify it a bit.

Free thinking is what makes humans great. At least we agree to disagree...but in a "positive" format.
Last edited by american_in_lima on Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Regards,

George
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby stuart » Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:58 pm

Comet wrote:OK Stuart..very well put on all of your points. My signature is actually not at all what you think...its a song from a Marx Brothers film sung by Groucho..funny but of no significance .


Cool. Remaining level-headed and completely non-confrontational (when at all possible!!) is a great way to encourage others to come around to your way of thinking. If that fails and they get confrontational with you... only then should you take a leaf out of their book and burn them at the stake, nail them to a cross or commit acts of mass genocide. :wink:
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby stuart » Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:01 pm

american_in_lima wrote:Stuart: For the record, I am against a "negative" group of any kind...But if an athiest group can be positive about their believes, I am all for it. One of my best friends when I was a student at Oxford is an athiest. One of the nicest people you could ever meet.

I am not uncomfortable by it at all in having an Athiest group here on the site. I believe that there is a God, but at the same time, I can not expect others to believe that. I also don't want others to believe everything that I believe...How boring would life be if that were the case?

I think my point was taken a bit out of context, but hopefully that helps clarify it a bit.

Free thinking is what makes humans great. At least we agree to disagree...but in a "positive" format.


Understood.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby Remigius » Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:02 pm

americorps wrote:Me, of all people, who is not even an Atheist...has to ask

Are you suggesting that they are not welcome ON the board simply because their presence makes some who disagree with them uncomfortable?


C'mon. Anyone can/should see this thread was started to lure people into a discussion that has caused wars since the beginning of time. I mean, an Atheist group! It's a good practical joke, but it should not get out of hand.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby tomsax » Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:04 pm

I'm an atheist but I must admit I don't really see the need to discuss my atheism within a group. Sure I can talk about other things with atheists but I don't see why I should only talk about movies and my next vacation with ONLY atheists.

Not that I'm against the idea though.

I'm an atheist but I regularly go to a Catholic church, as my wife is Peruvian, and she wishes to bring our son up as a Catholic. I have no problem with this. I must admit I sometimes find going to church tedious - a lot of what is said I obviously think is untrue. Some of the priests are more interesting to listen to than others (we have three in our parish that rotate). But we have made friends and it has become a social thing. I do think that atheists miss out on a structured time of contemplation that Christians organise on a Sunday and sometimes in the silence of the prayer moments I like that. Humanists groups do try and organise that sort of thing I think. I would probably enjoy those as well and of course another way is through things like meditation. Each to his own though!

I'm a bit aghast that comet feels he shouldn't be criticised. Surely the whole idea of an atheist’s position is that all beliefs are game for criticism and that is all part of the use of REASON.

It’s a very difficult line to tread. On the one hand we need to have an open debate on all ideas and beliefs. On the other hand we have to criticise while also respecting each other. I try to do that though I'm not sure I always succeed.

We have to be aware that many people feel that when you criticise their religion you are criticising their very essence of being. If they feel like that they are very unlikely to listen to you and engage in constructive debate or to come over to your way of thinking. And more fundamentally, people have the right to believe whatever they want to believe. I don't agree with the more evangelical atheists that claim that religion actually harms believers or anyone else. For me the joy of atheism is that it is inclusive. I have no reason to feel sorry for people who disagree with me or to believe that they will suffer any consequence as a result of their beliefs either in this life or the next. I have no reason not to respect believers of religious faiths even if I healthily disagree with them.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby Ron » Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:22 pm

I think that Comet is just trying to get like-minded individuals together (as he said in his OP). Don't read more into this than there is.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby Chiclayo gringo » Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:49 pm

Discussions/debates like this can only happen because there is the belief in absolutes…where we take our personal beliefs and values and cast them into the heavens; proclaiming them self-evident and demanding that all mankind adopt them. There is no supreme being in my belief system. There may be a supreme being in your belief system. So what’s the problem? Let’s go catch a beer.

Tom
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby roddd » Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:30 pm

i am not for or against however
i come here as it is about Peru i am sure there are thousands of other Atheist forums on the internet :)

and i quote forums rules

Topics on this board should be relevant to Peru or to the Expat experience here. :)
Comet

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:40 pm

Hmmmm I really wasn´t trying to disturb a hornets nest´with this..it was nothing more, or less, than the simple fact that I would enjoy the company of fellow free-thinkers sometimes....not to talk about religion...just to be able to talk to open-minded people. My wife is Peruvian and a theist...we don´t argue or fight about religion...or much else for that matter. AS Kelly rightly stated.." if you aren´t interested in the group...don´t go" so there is not and was not any reason for theists to even comment on my original post.
How would you theists have felt if you posted about a get-together for christians and I or someone else posted my or our opinions about the merits of YOUR stance ? Not to happy I´m sure ! If you are atheist or other non-religious then I would be delighted to organise an occasional get-together to discuss everything and anything that we care to . :twisted:
And Roddd....I am in Peru and I have invited atheists living in Peru, I am an expat ....therefore I feel that I qualify as much as anyone else here who wishes to meet like-minded people.
This has gone a bit over the top....quite simply the heading of the original post should have been suficient....if you are atheist read and respond if you choose to, if you are not...then read a different post more pertinent to your interests...very simple I think !
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby stuart » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:24 pm

Settled then. Praise be to thee flying spaghetti monster! Thou art too gracious!
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby Remigius » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:48 pm

Atheist group meeting: Thank God we're Atheists!
Comet

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:08 pm

Remigius wrote:Atheist group meeting: Thank God we're Atheists!


Tell me when to laugh :mrgreen:
Comet

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:18 pm

tomsax wrote:I'm an atheist but I must admit I don't really see the need to discuss my atheism within a group. Sure I can talk about other things with atheists but I don't see why I should only talk about movies and my next vacation with ONLY atheists.

Not that I'm against the idea though.

I'm an atheist but I regularly go to a Catholic church, as my wife is Peruvian, and she wishes to bring our son up as a Catholic. I have no problem with this. I must admit I sometimes find going to church tedious - a lot of what is said I obviously think is untrue. Some of the priests are more interesting to listen to than others (we have three in our parish that rotate). But we have made friends and it has become a social thing. I do think that atheists miss out on a structured time of contemplation that Christians organise on a Sunday and sometimes in the silence of the prayer moments I like that. Humanists groups do try and organise that sort of thing I think. I would probably enjoy those as well and of course another way is through things like meditation. Each to his own though!

I'm a bit aghast that comet feels he shouldn't be criticised. Surely the whole idea of an atheist’s position is that all beliefs are game for criticism and that is all part of the use of REASON.

It’s a very difficult line to tread. On the one hand we need to have an open debate on all ideas and beliefs. On the other hand we have to criticise while also respecting each other. I try to do that though I'm not sure I always succeed.

We have to be aware that many people feel that when you criticise their religion you are criticising their very essence of being. If they feel like that they are very unlikely to listen to you and engage in constructive debate or to come over to your way of thinking. And more fundamentally, people have the right to believe whatever they want to believe. I don't agree with the more evangelical atheists that claim that religion actually harms believers or anyone else. For me the joy of atheism is that it is inclusive. I have no reason to feel sorry for people who disagree with me or to believe that they will suffer any consequence as a result of their beliefs either in this life or the next. I have no reason not to respect believers of religious faiths even if I healthily disagree with them.


For -(I assume)-an intelligent man you seem to have missed the point completely...I had no intention of starting any kind of debate or discussion...I had one motive and one motive only....to make contact with other like-minded people. Simple...or it seemed to be. If you are interested write...if not don´t even read it.. There! that is easy isn´t it ? Isn´t it?
Xibalba

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Xibalba » Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:56 pm

Remigius wrote:
C'mon. Anyone can/should see this thread was started to lure people into a discussion that has caused wars since the beginning of time. I mean, an Atheist group! It's a good practical joke, but it should not get out of hand.


In all historical fairness, atheism has not caused wars since the beginning of time. Almost every war, if not every war, has had a religious element to it, typically tied into (or driving) the economic element.

I can't think of a single war started by an atheist nation. Even the Cold War against the pseudo-atheist nations like the USSR and China was religious on at least one side. And that war was not started by the Russians, but the British in 1912.

For the record, I am Buddhist. But to dismiss atheists as having nothing to talk about, or to say that their existence is a "practical joke", is as insulting to atheists as it is to be a Christian and have someone say your God is a figment of your imagination, or to be a Muslim and have Mohammed drawn in a cartoon.

Except, in my experience, atheists have more tolerance for being abused. They have to be, at least in the USA, as they are the only group disallowed from holding elected office here. (Imagine if they disallowed Jews to run for office.)
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby redrum » Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:57 pm

atheists are a contradiction, by believing there is not a God they are saying there exists a God to not believe in. what a good idea to form a group to give more attention to God!!
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby stuart » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:10 pm

redrum wrote:atheists are a contradiction, by believing there is not a God they are saying there exists a God to not believe in. what a good idea to form a group to give more attention to God!!


An atheist not believing in a god (the G should not be capitalized, its not a place nor someone's name) is not the same as believing their is no god, although is isn't really any way to distinguish between the two with only one word "a-theist" existing.

My point is, anyone declaring that they believe there is no god has as flawed a mind as anyone else who chooses to throw away their ability to distinguish facts from personal wishes. That is, unless they are using the word "believe" to mean "I have reasonably concluded based on the evidence presented to me". The word is sometimes used that way.

I think it likely that any atheist presented at the feet of a god (assuming it is corporal) and depending on the definition of what a god is, would be happy to accept its existence and go about life as normal. A theist can't be shown proof there is no god (that very fact invalidating their entire way of thinking), but if they could be, as they are being as humans understand more and more about the world around them, is far more likely to react emotionally, either by crying, murdering you and your family, or just plain ignoring any evidence against that which they wish to be true.

In conclusion, no contradiction exists. Quite the opposite.
Last edited by stuart on Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Comet

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:36 pm

redrum wrote:atheists are a contradiction, by believing there is not a God they are saying there exists a God to not believe in. what a good idea to form a group to give more attention to God!!

What a ridiculous thing to say...therefore if I don´t believe that aliens live in my garden that proves that they do ? hahahahahahahahah
I don´t believe there is $10000000000 in my bank account so obviously there is....anyone need a few thousand dollars?
Comet

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:52 pm

stuart wrote:
redrum wrote:atheists are a contradiction, by believing there is not a God they are saying there exists a God to not believe in. what a good idea to form a group to give more attention to God!!


An atheist not believing in a god (the G should not be capitalized, its not a place nor someone's name) is not the same as believing their is no god, although is isn't really any way to distinguish between the two with only one word a-theist existing.

My point is, anyone declaring that they believe there is no god has as flawed a mind as anyone else who chooses to through away their ability to deduce facts from personal wishes. That is, unless they are using the word "believe" to mean "I have reasonably concluded based on the evidence presented to me". The word is sometimes used that way.

I think it likely that any atheist presented at the feet of a god (assuming it is corporal) and depending on the definition of what a god is, would be happy to accept its existence and go about life as normal. A theist can't be shown proof there is no god (that very fact invalidating their entire way of thinking), but if they could be, as they are being as humans understand more and more about the world around them, is far more likely to react emotionally, either by crying, murdering you and your family, or just plain ignoring any evidence against that which they wish to be true.

In conclusion, no contradiction exists. Quite the opposite.


I think you are wasting your time trying to use reason and logic here Stuart...if the Taliban understood reason and logic then they wouldn´t be theist !
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby JoshuS » Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:52 am

George Carlin said it best!

:)
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby tomsax » Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:53 am

Comet wrote:[

For -(I assume)-an intelligent man you seem to have missed the point completely...I had no intention of starting any kind of debate or discussion...I had one motive and one motive only....to make contact with other like-minded people. Simple...or it seemed to be. If you are interested write...if not don´t even read it.. There! that is easy isn´t it ? Isn´t it?


No intention of starting any kind of debate or discussion! Sorry but I have to laugh.

The truth is many of us atheists find it much more interesting discussing atheism with those who believe in god than fellow atheists. Why not admit it?

We have pretty well established here that just because two people are atheists doesn't mean they are necessarily like minded any more than two Christians or two Muslims are.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby tomsax » Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:57 am

And now you're comparing redrum to the taliban! I think a lot of us are reading this because we find it quite entertaining - if ridiculous.

Comet wrote:
stuart wrote:
redrum wrote:atheists are a contradiction, by believing there is not a God they are saying there exists a God to not believe in. what a good idea to form a group to give more attention to God!!


An atheist not believing in a god (the G should not be capitalized, its not a place nor someone's name) is not the same as believing their is no god, although is isn't really any way to distinguish between the two with only one word a-theist existing.

My point is, anyone declaring that they believe there is no god has as flawed a mind as anyone else who chooses to through away their ability to deduce facts from personal wishes. That is, unless they are using the word "believe" to mean "I have reasonably concluded based on the evidence presented to me". The word is sometimes used that way.

I think it likely that any atheist presented at the feet of a god (assuming it is corporal) and depending on the definition of what a god is, would be happy to accept its existence and go about life as normal. A theist can't be shown proof there is no god (that very fact invalidating their entire way of thinking), but if they could be, as they are being as humans understand more and more about the world around them, is far more likely to react emotionally, either by crying, murdering you and your family, or just plain ignoring any evidence against that which they wish to be true.

In conclusion, no contradiction exists. Quite the opposite.


I think you are wasting your time trying to use reason and logic here Stuart...if the Taliban understood reason and logic then they wouldn´t be theist !
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby Remigius » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:42 am

Xibalba wrote:
Remigius wrote:
C'mon. Anyone can/should see this thread was started to lure people into a discussion that has caused wars since the beginning of time. I mean, an Atheist group! It's a good practical joke, but it should not get out of hand.


In all historical fairness, atheism has not caused wars since the beginning of time.


I didn't say atheism caused wars. I merely pointed out wars and conflicts start because of opposite groups with different point-a-views and without the willingness to concede. The call for an atheist group is odd, but that's my personal opinion.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby americorps » Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:08 pm

Well, I think this thread cinches it, an atheist group is well needed considering the flack they get just for existing.

A free place to feel comfortable being an atheist without fear of being challenged, attacked for forced into religion seems quite a natural reaction to this sort of response.

Athiest groups can talk about how to raise their children in Peru with the constant push towards Catholisism. They can talk about how to react to the violent reactions they get from people for expressing their beliefs.

I liken what happens here much to homophobia. A man can kiss his wife, show pictures of his girlfriend, talk about how hot he thinks some girl is, but if I mention my boyfriend, I am being out an blatent or pushing my private life in your face.

In this case, many people thank God, talking about going to Catholic school, religious services, but if someone says they are atheist, they have stirred up controversy. It is just an unfair set of standards in my opinion and justifies the need for such a group via that fact alone.
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Re: Atheist Group

Postby alan » Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:06 pm

The way this thread has evolved is clear evidence that a loving god does not exist. :roll:

But on a serious note, Comet, you ought to set a time and date for your meeting, or invite others to contact you directly. There seems to be a fair number of atheists willing to share thoughts and ideas.
Comet

Re: Atheist Group

Postby Comet » Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:26 pm

Alan wrote:The way this thread has evolved is clear evidence that a loving god does not exist. :roll:

But on a serious note, Comet, you ought to set a time and date for your meeting, or invite others to contact you directly. There seems to be a fair number of atheists willing to share thoughts and ideas.


OK If the "not-interested" would kindly refrain from posting and allow the interested to post so that I can have a reasonable idea of how many people would like to get together, then during next week, I will arrange a meeting after a little time has allowed more people to read the original posting.
If the theists among us would kindly show the same consideration to this posting that they expect on their postings then this will be a very simple issue.

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