Why the sudden interest in Peruvian citizenship?

Answers to your qestions about moving to, and living in, Peru,
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naturegirl
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Why the sudden interest in Peruvian citizenship?

Postby naturegirl » Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:08 am

I got citizenship two years ago, I know american_in_lima got it about a year ago. But now there's a HUGE interest in citizen. Why? I mean, before, people simply lived in Peru, happy to be on a CE. Are there changes going on with CE rules? I left Peru in Jan and have been in Korea since. NO plans to return as we're in the midst of setting up an import export business with cars.

Just wanted to ask what's gonig on.

Also, if anyone knows how to get Peruvian docs (birth and marriage certs ) apostillised, please let me know. I'm sure we'll need that when we go to the embassy here when we apply for passports for our kids, whenever they arrive. I tried calling the emabssy here and they told me to call RREE :roll:


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Re: Why the sudden interest in Peruvian citizenship?

Postby Remigius » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:04 am

It's not that there's a sudden increase of interest in the citizenship, it's more the fact people use more and more the Internet to reveal such interest. I know many foreigners who have their citizenship for years and when you're living in Peru and most likely remain doing so for many years to come, becoming a Peruvian is the most logical thing to do. At one moment you want to stop being a foreigner without a voice, having to wade through Lima-traffic in order to once again go through the bureaucratic mill of the immigration service.
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Re: Why the sudden interest in Peruvian citizenship?

Postby naturegirl » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:09 am

Remigius wrote:It's not that there's a sudden increase of interest in the citizenship, it's more the fact people use more and more the Internet to reveal such interest. I know many foreigners who have their citizenship for years and when you're living in Peru and most likely remain doing so for many years to come, becoming a Peruvian is the most logical thing to do. At one moment you want to stop being a foreigner without a voice, having to wade through Lima-traffic in order to once again go through the bureaucratic mill of the immigration service.


I don't knjow. While I agree about the internet, the many many times while I was at immigrations and the naturalisation dept, I never saw any non-Peruvian foreigners. Most were Peruvians who had given up citizenship and wanted it back, or their kids.
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Re: Why the sudden interest in Peruvian citizenship?

Postby Remigius » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:24 am

naturegirl wrote:I don't knjow. While I agree about the internet, the many many times while I was at immigrations and the naturalisation dept, I never saw any non-Peruvian foreigners. Most were Peruvians who had given up citizenship and wanted it back, or their kids.


Non-Peruvian foreigners :) I know what you mean, but I love the expression ;) I had to go 2 (or 3) times to do the paperwork at the naturalisation department. One day I sat with 3 ex-Peruvians who wanted their nationality back and 1 Bolivian (I only knew, because she said so), the other time I was with 1 British, 1 American, 1 Italian and 1 Spaniard. Of the 5 working days and 4-5 office hours, I guess it's always possible you end up the palest :)
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Re: Why the sudden interest in Peruvian citizenship?

Postby naturegirl » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:29 am

Maybe. I started the process back in Dec 2008 and was in Immigratinos in Jan and Feb 2009 A LOT, and like I said, never saw non-Peruvian foreigners. that was two years ago, now there's a boom. i wonder if they publish statistics about this.
Last edited by naturegirl on Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why the sudden interest in Peruvian citizenship?

Postby Remigius » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:41 am

Good weather in January and February. I would not be surprised if people would wait doing nasty paperwork and go to the beach instead.
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Re: Why the sudden interest in Peruvian citizenship?

Postby stuart » Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:54 pm

Could also be due to an increase in the number of foreigners, or a lack of desire to go home to their collapsed economies.
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Re: Why the sudden interest in Peruvian citizenship?

Postby Kelly » Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:27 pm

When I first came to Peru, it seemed like the majority of people were here on work related visas - lots of embassy, miners, teachers. Over the last few years, I've seen a lot more people who have fallen in love, and decided to come here rather than take their Peruvian partner back to their home country - because it's easier, and because the economies back there suck so bad right now. So it stands to reason, more people would be looking to get their citizenship if they plan on staying.
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Re: Why the sudden interest in Peruvian citizenship?

Postby tupacperu » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:32 pm

I wanted citizenship so that I can travel freely to Brazil or Cuba and Venezuela without a hassle/restriction or having to pay a fee. Also to setup my beach house in the north (Peru) as headquarters when I retire, then travel the world. This way I do not have to hassle with the 6 month Carnet expiration when I have a Peruvian passport.
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Re: Why the sudden interest in Peruvian citizenship?

Postby naturegirl » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:50 pm

But you don't want citizenship anymore? INcidentally, You-re also allowed the Shenzhen border visa at HK. Americans aren't
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Re: Why the sudden interest in Peruvian citizenship?

Postby Xibalba » Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:03 am

Kelly wrote: Over the last few years, I've seen a lot more people who have fallen in love, and decided to come here rather than take their Peruvian partner back to their home country - because it's easier, and because the economies back there suck so bad right now. So it stands to reason, more people would be looking to get their citizenship if they plan on staying.


I can only speak anecdotally, but as I plan my move to Peru and have talked to more people about it, I find this to be true (about Americans, anyway.) More and more people seem to be relocating (either for love or work) because the economy here is getting so bad. Recent generations are more "mobile" than those of our parents or grandparents, so the idea of moving out of the country to prosper (or survive!) is more acceptable these days.

This played into my decision to relocate to Peru (possibly permanently) rather than establish my business' branch and then come back. Just a few years ago I intended on setting up a Central/South American branch in Mexico, but when that country went to heck, I started looking elsewhere. Peru is perfect. But the original plan was just to set up the office, spend a few months here, get locals to run it, and then come back. Now with the US economy so bad that I am getting torn apart financially, the notion of staying in Peru is just a wiser decision, economically. I can just fly back and forth from Lima to the US and keep running my business from Lima, while taking advantage of the economic benefits.

I just have to navigate all the complexities with regard to immigration (I will be coming and going A LOT) and taxes between two countries.

Peru is definitely in the consciousness of Americans now, as a place to "escape" to get away from the declining US economy. Without getting too political, I think many US folks recognize that both political parties have pretty much abdicated any responsibility for governance, and are now just obsessed with the election cycle and retaining incumbency. (Ironic that a democracy that has criticized single-party states like the USSR and China now has two parties that are each laser-focused on creating a single party state, provided it's THEIR party!)

So many people are trying to figure out where to go. Since the US crisis is national, there's no place within the US to go to, so more and more people are looking outside the border. Peru is a great choice because of its climate, people, relative stability, etc. It also lacks the bad press of other South American nations, such as Venezuela, Colombia or Bolivia (fair or unfair).

I would say that's why we see this explosive growth in Miraflores and other areas targeted for Westerners. I do hope we don't see a schism in classes, although I suppose that may be inevitable.
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Re: Why the sudden interest in Peruvian citizenship?

Postby pwr144 » Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:20 pm

Peru has the feel of an up and coming economy and country--the USA is currently fighting against the pull of communism, the antithesis of 'up and coming'


Individual achievement seems encouraged here to some extent, while in the process of being 'outlawed' at home.


Perhaps it feels good to be in a place where folks are allowed to be proud of their country, without the need to apologize after saying so.

Just a guess.
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Re: Why the sudden interest in Peruvian citizenship?

Postby RobB » Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:24 pm

tupacperu wrote:I wanted citizenship so that I can travel freely to Brazil or Cuba and Venezuela without a hassle/restriction or having to pay a fee. Also to setup my beach house in the north (Peru) as headquarters when I retire, then travel the world. This way I do not have to hassle with the 6 month Carnet expiration when I have a Peruvian passport.


I just got back from a visit to Buenos Aires. Having the Peruvian passports saved my wife and me 140 dollars each -- the fee they charge US citizens to enter Argentina (based on what the US charges Argentinians to get a US visa). Same was true in Chile where they charged $100m the last time I was there.

There are lots of upsides to dual citizenship and few downsides. Peruvian citizens are required to vote or pay a penalty. Of course it is a privilege to vote, but if you are out of the country, tough. If you make more than 80000 dollars per year, there are theoretical double taxation issues, but, in practice, nothing is enforceable.
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Re: Why the sudden interest in Peruvian citizenship?

Postby naturegirl » Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:46 pm

RobB wrote:I just got back from a visit to Buenos Aires. Having the Peruvian passports saved my wife and me 140 dollars each -- the fee they charge US citizens to enter Argentina (based on what the US charges Argentinians to get a US visa). Same was true in Chile where they charged $100m the last time I was there.

There are lots of upsides to dual citizenship and few downsides. Peruvian citizens are required to vote or pay a penalty. Of course it is a privilege to vote, but if you are out of the country, tough. If you make more than 80000 dollars per year, there are theoretical double taxation issues, but, in practice, nothing is enforceable.


It's 90 something thousand a year now, and I wouldn't count on it not being enforced.
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Re: Why the sudden interest in Peruvian citizenship?

Postby MartitaAQP » Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:19 am

I often wondered why people were NOT interested a few years ago. Most expats seemed strangely content to just be residents. YOu do not see that in the US when someone chooses to live there and has a chance at citizenship, they usually pursue it. I moved here with the clear intention of becoming a citizen. Others have reacted to that like I should fear for my US citizenship, which seems based on ignorance or perhaps just distrust of the govnt. I chose Peru as home 10 years ago but had to go back and forth for several years and didn't work here until I could become a legal resident which was almost 2 years ago so I will be applying soon for nationalization.

For those who have done the process recently, how long did it take you from when you applied? DId you renew your CE before starting (I have to maintain residency I guess while I pass through the process but don't want the hassle of renewing everything for a third year before citizenship if possible to avoid). I'm wondering how much of a process I'm headed towards....

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Re: Why the sudden interest in Peruvian citizenship?

Postby Alan » Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:49 am

MartitaAQP wrote:I often wondered why people were NOT interested a few years ago. Most expats seemed strangely content to just be residents. YOu do not see that in the US when someone chooses to live there and has a chance at citizenship, they usually pursue it. I moved here with the clear intention of becoming a citizen. Others have reacted to that like I should fear for my US citizenship, which seems based on ignorance or perhaps just distrust of the govnt. I chose Peru as home 10 years ago but had to go back and forth for several years and didn't work here until I could become a legal resident which was almost 2 years ago so I will be applying soon for nationalization.

For those who have done the process recently, how long did it take you from when you applied? DId you renew your CE before starting (I have to maintain residency I guess while I pass through the process but don't want the hassle of renewing everything for a third year before citizenship if possible to avoid). I'm wondering how much of a process I'm headed towards....

Martha



You ought to be able to do everything in under 3 or 4 months, IF you stay on top of things. In my own experience, they never phoned me to say that they were ready for me to come down for the next step in the process, so I lost a lot of weeks.

You raise a good point though about renewals. Your card has to be up to date with payments, and if during the course of your application process an annual fee becomes due, you are expected to pay it. A friend of mine had his card expire during his process so he had to go through the entire process of getting the carnet again, just so they could take it away from him on the last day.

None of these are complaints. It makes perfect sense to me that they require these things.


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Re: Why the sudden interest in Peruvian citizenship?

Postby MartitaAQP » Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:12 pm

Not sure I understand...

In my case, I am finishing 2 years in APril. Of course, I will have to pay the tasa anual in the first couple of months of 2011. But will I need to file the paperwork and pay the fee to RENEW my ce for a third year (which requires another work contract, in my case) and enter a third year of residency before I can apply? Or can I have a status of "seeking citizenship" or something since I will be applying AS SOON AS I finish the 2 year minimum?
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Re: Why the sudden interest in Peruvian citizenship?

Postby fanning » Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:38 pm

Next week I have my appointment in Migraciones with the director. But I asked to the man who came to my house to verify if in the case that the whole process would not be completed before 2011 if I would need to pay the Tasa anual. He said no, because I was now in the tramite of getting the nationality. But as usual, that is just the opinion of some guy in Migraciones.. Another can tell you another story.

In the case of MartitaAQP I can assume that YES you need to renew for at least a third year your residency before you can apply for nationality. As you can only proof two years of residency ( and be legal in Peru ) if you have renewed the third year ..
( I did hear that it is more difficult to obtain the nationality if you are not married to a Peruvian, but i don't know the requirements for those cases )
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Re: Why the sudden interest in Peruvian citizenship?

Postby El Tunche » Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:51 am

Coz whit peruvian citizenship you can enter Russia whitout a visa and whitout paying ridiculous fees 8)
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Re: Why the sudden interest in Peruvian citizenship?

Postby Alpineprince » Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:28 am

I plan to start "the process" the beginning of the year! For me, there is a possibility that I will go back to the States for a few years and I do not want to take a chance on the "expat tax" or the possibility that Peru tightens up the requirements.
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Re: Why the sudden interest in Peruvian citizenship?

Postby stuart » Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:13 am

I plan on doing it early next year too. I was eligible a good few months ago, but wanted to have the elections out of the way first. Now that there's, or that there's about to be, no chance of being a citizen in time for the election, I'm putting off reading up and starting the process to avoid suffering the hell that is Digemin. I'm still recovering from the residency process (I expect to be traumatized by that for several decades more).
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Re: Why the sudden interest in Peruvian citizenship?

Postby rgamarra » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:35 am

I have the luxury of starting the residency process all over again; although I had the opportunity to get my Peruvian citizenship before I left the country. The reason I declined when I had the opportunity was b/c I would have had to change my name on official documents which was more bureaucratic than dealing w/migraciones. So when I return (degree in hand) I'll have to do the 2 years all over again. Fortunately, I most likely won't have to go to Arica again to get the residency stamp. :wink:
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Re: Why the sudden interest in Peruvian citizenship?

Postby naturegirl » Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:47 am

rgamarra wrote:I have the luxury of starting the residency process all over again; although I had the opportunity to get my Peruvian citizenship before I left the country. The reason I declined when I had the opportunity was b/c I would have had to change my name on official documents which was more bureaucratic than dealing w/migraciones. So when I return (degree in hand) I'll have to do the 2 years all over again. Fortunately, I most likely won't have to go to Arica again to get the residency stamp. :wink:


When are you going back? I thought you werew going to Europe. If you do, we might see you there. That's next on our list.
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Re: Why the sudden interest in Peruvian citizenship?

Postby RobB » Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:14 pm

I got my citizenship last year. I found the people there really friendly and helpful. The last few years I saw a big improvement in the level of service in this ministry. For me, the key was to smile, make a little small talk, find something to complement...the basic human relations stuff. At heart, people are the same all over the world. My advice is, if you go into the process expecting the best, you will have a nice experience...
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Re: Why the sudden interest in Peruvian citizenship?

Postby naturegirl » Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:24 pm

I've received 2 PMs and 1 email warning me that because I left Peru, and have Peruvian citizenship, I'm subject to dual taxation. I decided to look online and clarify things. I couldn't find anything. The closest I got was PWC that has info about dual taxation. After a couple of hours of searching the web, I decided to call the embassy. basically, here's what they said. Forget for a moment that I'm American and have to deal with that tax stuff and have income from Thailand as well. Let's just deal with KOREA and Peru.

Basically. I live in Korea. I work in Korea. I pay taxes in Korea. I'm Peruvian. I have NO income from Peru.
My husband. Live in Korea. Doesn't work in Korea. Doens't pay taxes in Korea. He's Peruvian. He has INCOME from Peru.

I talked to 4 people at the embassy. It comes down to this: dual taxation is for "empresas" not individuals. All the embassy workers, including the cousel asked me if I had income in Peru. I said no. they said then there's NO reason why I have to pay taxes. So I asked if I had to FILE. Again, they said no. No reason.

My husband on the other hand, DOES. Since he has an income from Peru.

Which is a big relief for me, since having to pay taxes to three different countries is already a big pain in the butt.

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