Peruvian Airlines Reopens Saturday *edited

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Polaron
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Re: Peruvian Airlines Reopens Saturday *edited

Postby Polaron » Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:30 pm

mammalu wrote:
Icachico wrote:Ok, I'm a little confused about this so please forgive me if this is a dumb question but can't you get that CE thingy, become legal, then buy a domestic LAN ticket @ the lower Peruvian price as a Peruvian resident?
Kindly explain, thanks.


Explain what, exactly? I don't like the idea of paying one fare with my Peruvian passport or DNI and my husband paying a different fare, for not being Peruvian..

Anyway, I don't compromise safety. I will pay for and use the best (in my opinion) airline.


Mammalu, I think Icachico is asking about whether a Carnet de Extranjería will allow a foreigner to pay the same fare as a Peruvian citizen on LAN. My last flight was Santiago de Chile to Lima in 2009, so I am not the right person to answer that question.

I can tell you, Icachico, that getting a CE is a fairly time-consuming and frustrating process, and applicants must meet an eligibility test.


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Re: Peruvian Airlines Reopens Saturday *edited

Postby windsportinperu » Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:01 pm

I have seen the TV report twice.. thanks for the link..

I have no doubts that the TV report has been based on real evidence, but also exist a bias and clear intention to scare people and frigthen away the passengers. Some questions:

1) The records are clearly saying that there was 52 technical issues from Peruvian airlines vs 18 from LAN. So if LAN have had 18 technical issues; why LAN haven't also received a punishment from DGAC ?

2) why DGAC were so fast (in case of peruvian airlines) is giving them the penalty of 90 days suspension ?

3) why the TV report didn't show to the country at least 1 of the 18 technical issues done by LAN ? I am just asking 1.. not 2 or 3.. just 1.. If they pretend to be unbiased, they should also show the dark side of LAN..

The report focus a lot of energy in presenting to peruvian-airlines as company with a high possibility of having a soon aircrash. There is no doubt that exist great economical interest on bringing down any kind of competItion in the peruvian market in regard to civil aviation.
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Re: Peruvian Airlines Reopens Saturday *edited

Postby Icachico » Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:23 pm

Yes, Polaron that's what I meant. I may or may not
be moving to Peru with my wife, a native of Ica in
the future so I was curious about obtaining the carnet. My wife is clueless about the process.

In regards to the airline discussion, I'm budget conscious like most people today but safety is, of course, the most important thing.

Sorry about the CE inquiry in this thread but in my opinion,
the thread had already veered off course.
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Re: Peruvian Airlines Reopens Saturday *edited

Postby Icachico » Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:28 pm

Since this thread has expanded to a discussion of other airlines, anybody got an opinion about those Star Peru puddle jumpers? ;0)
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Re: Peruvian Airlines Reopens Saturday *edited

Postby rama0929 » Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:45 pm

Icachico wrote:Since this thread has expanded to a discussion of other airlines, anybody got an opinion about those Star Peru puddle jumpers? ;0)


I used them to fly to Cuzco. Nothing spectacular.
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Re: Peruvian Airlines Reopens Saturday *edited

Postby TonyLeslie » Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:52 pm

) The records are clearly saying that there was 52 technical issues from Peruvian airlines vs 18 from LAN. So if LAN have had 18 technical issues; why LAN haven't also received a punishment from DGAC ?

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression, the figure 18 was the industry average, not specific to LAN.
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Re: Peruvian Airlines Reopens Saturday *edited

Postby windsportinperu » Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:39 am

TonyLeslie wrote:.... the figure 18 was the industry average, not specific to LAN.


“”A julio de este año el promedio de las otras 3 compañias era 18 fallas tecnicas por cada 10,000 aterrizajes vs 52 fallas tecnicas de p.airlines. Es decir casi 3 veces mas que las otras””

You are right, LAN could have had 25 mechanical issues (or couldn't), but I think that the purpose of the Director of DGAC is telling that the others (including LAN) also had mechanical issues. 18 mechanical issues is as dangerous as 25, 50 or 100 IMHO. Unfortunately I can't find on internet, what kind of mechanical issues happened to the airplanes in LAN There is no online information in the website of the DGAC

With no doubt, peruvian-airlines and others companies, must priorize the care and maintenance of their airplanes.

After this video, part of the market will flow from peruvian-airlines to LAN.. We should say NO, to the LAN monopoly. Other companies are welcome to compete agaisnt the ferocious unfair monopoly The more companies the better

It is good to know the sale promotions from star peru:

http://www.starperu.com/promociones_sp.php#

and from TACA

http://www.taca.com/gnss/app/esp/promwp.asp?id=4497&src=lhp
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Re: Peruvian Airlines Reopens Saturday *edited

Postby windsportinperu » Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:40 am

I am wondering. Why the TV report didn't mention this important information in their video in favour of Peruvian Airlines ?

Peruvian Airlines was authorized by MTC (Mnisterio de Transportes y Comunicaciones) and DGAC to fight again only with 737-300

"""Lima, ago. 26 (ANDINA). El Ministerio de Transportes y Comunicaciones (MTC) anunció hoy que ha autorizado a la aerolínea Peruvian Airlines, cuyos vuelos suspendió el 18 de agosto pasado, a reiniciar operaciones sólo con las aeronaves Boeing 737-300.

..... ..... Explicó que durante el tiempo transcurrido se ha recibido documentación de la empresa para levantar las observaciones técnicas efectuadas, la que ha sido analizada y verificada por personal de inspectores de la DGAC en las instalaciones de la compañía.

Como resultado de estas verificaciones y de las acciones emprendidas por la empresa bajo la supervisión de la DGAC, se determinó que la aerolínea mejoró su capacidad técnica""""

http://www.andina.com.pe/Espanol/Noticia.aspx?id=WL11CZikM2c=
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Re: Peruvian Airlines Reopens Saturday *edited

Postby teamoperu » Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:01 pm

Actually why bother. NOW is the best time EVER to buy Peruvian Air tickets... the inspections and stuff mean they are currently flying top notch... :lol:
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Re: Peruvian Airlines Reopens Saturday *edited

Postby el conquistador » Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:30 pm

Icachico wrote:Ok, I'm a little confused about this so please forgive me if this is a dumb question but can't you get that CE thingy, become legal, then buy a domestic LAN ticket @ the lower Peruvian price as a Peruvian resident?
Kindly explain, thanks.


I fly often with LAN on domestic flights and never paid the gringo fee. I don`t have a CE.
I book on the internet, check in on the internet so I never have to talk or come into contact with a LAN employee.

And about luggage, my Peruvian girlsfriend checks in all the luggage under her name.
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Re: Peruvian Airlines Reopens Saturday *edited

Postby windsportinperu » Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:02 pm

el conquistador wrote: I book on the internet....


Maybe the prices on internet have already the gringo tax included ?

Have you compare the internet prices vs buying at an office or travel agency directly ?

I mean the domestic internal flight in Peru..
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Re: Peruvian Airlines Reopens Saturday *edited

Postby el conquistador » Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:22 pm

windsportinperu wrote:
el conquistador wrote: I book on the internet....


Maybe the prices on internet have already the gringo tax included ?

Have you compare the internet prices vs buying at an office or travel agency directly ?

I mean the domestic internal flight in Peru..


I recently flew from Lima to Pucallpa and paid $ 72. (including all taxes)

The gringo fee is $177 so it can't be included.

I booked on line, check in on line and my gf (Peruvian) checked in the luggage under her name so I hadn't to talk or deal with any LAN employee.
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Re: Peruvian Airlines Reopens Saturday *edited

Postby teamoperu » Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:25 am

and often booking on internet is cheaper, LAN charges $30 if you book the ticket in one of their travel offices, notning if you book on line
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Re: Peruvian Airlines Reopens Saturday *edited

Postby teamoperu » Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:39 am

This thread went sidewyas fast, with some of the inappropriate comments, maybe we can get back to something more fitting this forum. A few points...

The suggestion lying LAN is safer than Peruvian is not supported by the facts. In recent imes, both have a perfect safety record, so both the same. Historically, Peruvian has a perfect safety record, LAN does not, so historically Peruvian is safer than LAN. (yes, I know LAN has a longer history, so that means we have to wait longer for P to have a long record too, and then make the comparison and may find P to be safer, or not).

But historical safety is less important, what we want to now is future safety record: will my plane crash. Studies of crashes show most often there are a number of factors leading up to crashes, the most important generally turns out to be human error. So age of planes is almost never a factor in a crash, rather pilot training, experience and reaction is most relevant. In fact, there have been recent crashes of the Airbus 319 (remember Air France?) so to suggest LAN's newer fleet is safer is quite wrong. From personal experience, two of my recent LAN flights have had incidents, in one I actually had thoughts that, you know, I might just die in the next few minutes, so do not telll me LAN is anyway safer than anyone else!

What is relevant is the percentage of reported incidents, relevant not because of safety but because of inconvenience as flights are cancelled or delayed. Incidents are widespread across the industry, the data presented above suggest for every 10000 flights there are 18 incidents, many resulting in irregular operations (IRROPS). Incidents can be anything from a warning light not going off to a bathroom that doesn't work. IRROPS are a good thing, in a way, because it means they are catching a problem before it can become a bigger problem. So good on Peruvian for catching so many potential problems before they become bigger, thanks for that, but no thanks for the inconvenience it causes.

The comparison of bus versus air safety is obvious. Almost daily there are reports of bus crshes in Peru. Indeed, yesterdays news reported 5 bus crashes with 26 dead. Ortusa and Cruz del Sur are not exempt from crahses, they have fewer than the lesser companies but it happens, even if not their fault. If safety is your main concern, do NOT take a bus in Peru, rather flying is way safer. The most dangerous part of flying is the taxi ride to the airport!

The safety risk of flying, well, the risk number is so small, well under 1% that we humans can hardly comprehend it and certainly the % risk between LAN or Peruvian or anyone would be several decimal points, certainly not any difference that we coulod reasonably factor into the decision of from whom to buy. For example, if P has a risk of 0.005% and L has a risk of 0.009% the difference is so insignifantly small that I challenge anyone to prove it is a valid decision criteria. More likely wkether you are having a good day or unlucky one is a greater factor in whether you will be a crash today.

But back to the OP. Most now agree that the suspension was very political, what with taxes due and undue influence by LAN. Who has gained the most from this very brief suspension? Certainly nothing in the suspension report suggests otherwise... and remember all sides are releasing just the info that makes them good right.
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Re: Peruvian Airlines Reopens Saturday *edited

Postby el conquistador » Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:41 pm

teamoperu wrote:But historical safety is less important, what we want to now is future safety record: will my plane crash. Studies of crashes show most often there are a number of factors leading up to crashes, the most important generally turns out to be human error. So age of planes is almost never a factor in a crash, rather pilot training, experience and reaction is most relevant.


75% of accidents are caused by pilot error.
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Re: Peruvian Airlines Reopens Saturday *edited

Postby MartitaAQP » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:14 pm

From the time I heard about it, this has REEKED of corruption. Whether you consider PA safe or not may be your choice based on the evidence you see (I wouldn't trust the news either, btw) but there is no question Lan is politically powerful and connected and has lots of money to throw the way of anyone who'll accept it in exchange for noticing every failure and exagerating every reaction. PA became a threat to Lan and they fought back. That's my opinion. THe 90 day shutdown (which they couldn't even carry out--they were flying fine when I came through on Monday) was a huge overreaction that just might ruin them because ppl will be afraid to fly. I have a CE and fly whichever is most convenient or cheap and don't boycott lan despite some negative experiences, but the alternative and competition is good. I just am sad this might kill it off and here in Arequipa we can go back to LAN being the ONLY option to fly to Lima.

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Re: Peruvian Airlines Reopens Saturday *edited

Postby el conquistador » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:44 pm

MartitaAQP wrote:F I just am sad this might kill it off and here in Arequipa we can go back to LAN being the ONLY option to fly to Lima.

MartitaAQP


STARPERU flies from Arequipa to Lima, Juliaca and Cuzco.
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Re: Peruvian Airlines Reopens Saturday *edited

Postby TonyLeslie » Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:28 pm

So ok, LAN is the all powerful, well connected to government bully boy making a major contribution to the suspension of Peruvian Airlines.

This is despite the new President of this country having advocated funding, with private enterprise, a new flagship airline to boost competition before this suspension took place. Not to mention the recent re-introduction of Air France, which competes with LAN on the international routes and encouraging at least one Asian Airline into the country. Interestingly a few of these Asian Airline Companies also advocate following their introduction into a country by starting up there own low cost regional airlines into that country. Singapore Airlines being a prime example. With the continued growth potential currently being experienced in Peru, do not think that other Airlines would not have been turning their attention to the potential here.

You do not think, just maybe, it really was about safety issues. It is also obvious to me, the whole industry had a going over and Peruvian Airlines was the only local company who did not meet the required standard and we should not forget there are at least 5 companies competing in the Peruvian Market. Because of the high number of breaches, I would even probably suggest the Ministry of Transport itself had been guilty of neglect with their own procedures. I mean, 52 breaches is a lot problems to find all at one time after all is said and done. If regular inspections were being adhered to, you would not have thought Peruvian Airlines would have had time to notch up 52 new breaches of regulations. Maybe the MoT were frightened by the new Governments decision to review and audit all departments for work ethics and corruption. I should put here, this is my personal speculation only. Being the case I would expect LAN would not want to be within a hundred miles of collusion with a government office.

Logic to me, would be for the Government to shake up Airlines Industry here because the regional infrastructure of the Local Airlines, (possibly LAN aside regardless how much you hate them) does not meet the required standard to move additional traffic that is hoped to be generated by additional tourists from the increase in International Airlines. Add to that new traffic flows from Business Executives linked to new investments by International Companies and through the new Free Trade Agreements with countries like South Korea and China. Do not forget, these are people who come from countries where they expect to travel in modern, well maintained planes, even if they are low cost airlines. Let's face it, to come off a new Airbus 380 and into a 30 year old Boeing 737,is not exactly encouraging, especially now if they read that one of the most popular airlines in the country has just been caught with 52 breaches of Air Safety Regulations. This on planes 25-30 years old. In moments of crisis, even a blown light globe can add one more distraction for Pilots trying to save his plane and the lives of all on board.

Some readers will also remember a short time previously when there was an article about major upgrades for the Airport Terminal and Communications Systems here in Lima, so it could handle much more Air Traffic than it was able to cope with at the moment.

I am sorry, to me, the logic of LAN being behind it just does not make sense.
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Re: Peruvian Airlines Reopens Saturday *edited

Postby rama0929 » Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:26 pm

windsportinperu wrote:
el conquistador wrote: I book on the internet....


Maybe the prices on internet have already the gringo tax included ?

Have you compare the internet prices vs buying at an office or travel agency directly ?

I mean the domestic internal flight in Peru..


Last year, I sent my folks to Ayacucho (from Lima), it was cheaper to reserve the flights via the web as opposed to buying through an agency.

Unfortunately, due to poor signal, I was unable to reserve the flight online. This was for Star Peru.
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Re: Peruvian Airlines Reopens Saturday *edited

Postby windsportinperu » Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:45 am

PAL, an small airline in Chile is trying to survive against the new greater monopoly that LAN is planning to have. Actually LAN is the bigger partner (buyer) of TAM a brasilian airline. PAL tried to fight against that power but .. Can you fight against a company as LAN where the actual president of Chile Sebastian Piñera was the last owner ? Can you fight against multimullonaires that also have political influences ? ... Judge by yourself

http://www.aeronoticias.com.pe/noticiero/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=19930:tribunal-chileno-rechaza-queja-contra-fusion-lan-y-tam&catid=14:14&Itemid=574

3 mechanical issues in LAN.. they all occured in a short period of time. They all during the same week. Did the DGAC suspend to LAN for 90 days ? Did the TV report mention this in the program against P.airlines ?

http://www.aeronoticias.com.pe/noticiero/index.php?Itemid=1&id=6899&option=com_content&task=view

When multimillions of dollars + political power + influences in journalism is what you have to fight against, the only thing you cand do is praying for not being devorated by those powerful companies. LAN is not an small cat, it is a big dragon..
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Re: Peruvian Airlines Reopens Saturday *edited

Postby el conquistador » Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:03 pm

TonyLeslie wrote:Let's face it, to come off a new Airbus 380 and into a 30 year old Boeing 737,is not exactly encouraging, especially now if they read that one of the most popular airlines in the country has just been caught with 52 breaches of Air Safety Regulations. This on planes 25-30 years old. In moments of crisis, even a blown light globe can add one more distraction for Pilots trying to save his plane and the lives of all on board.
I am sorry, to me, the logic of LAN being behind it just does not make sense.


I personnaly don't think either that LAN is behind the suspension of Peruvian Airlines.

Those safety checks were carried out by the ministery of transport and they decided to suspend the licence of Peruvian Airlines for safety breaches. Not LAN. It didn't mean that al safety breaches had to do with the aircrafts themselves. It could have been issues with safety procedures or training of the crew.

STARPERU and LC BUSRE also fly old aircrafts that are at least 20 years old and the didn't get suspended.
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Re: Peruvian Airlines Reopens Saturday *edited

Postby Polaron » Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:37 pm

You have a good point, Conquis, though it is also true that in Latin America, things often are not what they appear to be. :wink:
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Re: Peruvian Airlines Reopens Saturday *edited

Postby MartitaAQP » Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:54 pm

Yes, StarPeru and Taca are both making breaks into the Lima-Arequipa market but this is not the first time and they usually are seasonal short-term efforts that don't last. In the past 10 years in Arequipa, Lan has been the only option 90% of the time and Peruvian airlines has kept the route since they opened and seem more committed to the southern market (less tourist flow). I would not fly taca (just watched them wheel a smoking plane full of passengers down the tarmac in Lima last week) because I think there are real equipment issues there, but it's good to have options anyway.


Some of you seem determined to find the "logic" of some conspiracy theory when it is all so much simpler: corruption undermines rule of law and it works against, not for, logic.

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Re: Peruvian Airlines Reopens Saturday *edited

Postby americorps » Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:02 pm

You might be right, but then again, it would sort of fly in the face of how coima and corruption works in Peru. Historically there is plenty of president for companies buying off government inspections and the very coincidence of the timing of just a few days after Peruvian Airlines blasted Lan's practices in Peru is enough to raise the question.

el conquistador wrote:
TonyLeslie wrote:Let's face it, to come off a new Airbus 380 and into a 30 year old Boeing 737,is not exactly encouraging, especially now if they read that one of the most popular airlines in the country has just been caught with 52 breaches of Air Safety Regulations. This on planes 25-30 years old. In moments of crisis, even a blown light globe can add one more distraction for Pilots trying to save his plane and the lives of all on board.
I am sorry, to me, the logic of LAN being behind it just does not make sense.


I personnaly don't think either that LAN is behind the suspension of Peruvian Airlines.

Those safety checks were carried out by the ministery of transport and they decided to suspend the licence of Peruvian Airlines for safety breaches. Not LAN. It didn't mean that al safety breaches had to do with the aircrafts themselves. It could have been issues with safety procedures or training of the crew.

STARPERU and LC BUSRE also fly old aircrafts that are at least 20 years old and the didn't get suspended.
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Re: Peruvian Airlines Reopens Saturday *edited

Postby el conquistador » Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:52 pm

americorps wrote:You might be right, but then again, it would sort of fly in the face of how coima and corruption works in Peru. Historically there is plenty of president for companies buying off government inspections and the very coincidence of the timing of just a few days after Peruvian Airlines blasted Lan's practices in Peru is enough to raise the question.


STARPERU, TACA and LC BUSRE are also competing with LAN an never have been suspended.
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Re: Peruvian Airlines Reopens Saturday *edited

Postby americorps » Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:00 pm

perhaps you missed part of the quote, re-read the same quote you reposted in your own post to see that I did NOT in fact say it happened simply because they were competition as you suggest in your post, but as a result of a very public lambasting Peruvian Airlines gave in the press again Lan and Taca and their nationality based pricing.

The coincidence of the surprise inspection happening within 7 days of that event and the timing of the surprise inspecting being on the half day Peruvian Airlines was changing maintenance hangers offers enough suspicion alone to raise the question, but further, it was suggested by Peruvian Airlines that was exactly the case in one of their interviews on RPP.

I realize you do not agree, however as you can see from other posts here, reasonable people see the same evidence as you do and come to a different conclusion. There is nothing about your conclusion that is absolute any more than there is about mine.
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Re: Peruvian Airlines Reopens Saturday *edited

Postby Polaron » Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:32 am

el conquistador wrote:
STARPERU, TACA and LC BUSRE are also competing with LAN an never have been suspended.


Very good point, elconquistador.
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