Moving from house but with problems from owner

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thomasg
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Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby thomasg » Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:52 pm

I am having a difficult problem from the person I am renting a house from. I lilve on the first floor and then there is another family living on the second floor and then the owners live on the third floor. I have lived here for 2 years and am now leaving because they want to raise the rent 10%. I now pay $550.00 and it isnt really much. 3 bedrooms 2 bathrooms and a kitchen and living room and a nice patio. I have to evacuate the home by the 31st of December and have the home put back up in shape for them they say the way they give to me. This is the problem. They want me to pay for things that I did not do. Like the wall in our bedroom has many blisters on it and is peeling. they want a new floor and that is around $600.00 using THEIR parque person but he wants $600.00 to do and I find a person that can do it for around $250.00. There are other problems that are associated with this house but I will not explain them here. The bottom line is that they want my deposit of $1,100 and not give me anything back. Also after being here for 3 months I had cable problems, so called out Cable Magico. they found that the owner tapped into my cable and was stealing my cable. I also caught the second floor stealing water by puttiing it in a tank on a truck. What I am in need of is someone that can help me with these problems. Isn't there a American office that I can take my complaints to? If so where is it located? I hope someone here can help me. Thanks for reading my complaint but I do not think I am the only person here that had this same problem.


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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby Pollo mani » Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:17 pm

Thomas do a search here and you will find plenty of advice about this topic.
Good luck.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby chi chi » Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:14 pm

The problems you mentioned are very common in Peru.

The damage to the floor and blisters on the wall are normal wear and tear and the owner cannot charge you for that. Also if you pay for the repairs then the owner won't pay back your deposit either because he will invent other problem for not paying back your deposit.

What you can do to get your deposit back and not paying for the repairs is the following:

The owner is supposed to pay a tax on the rental income. You can ask him if he paid for it and ask for the receipts. If he didn't pay it then you can tell him that you will report him to SUNAT if he doesn't pay your deposit back. This helps generally in all cases.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby MarcoPE » Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:22 pm

x
Last edited by MarcoPE on Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby chi chi » Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:29 pm

MarcoPE wrote:The agreement stated we painted the apartment... However, when it came time to leave, they suddenly wanted Dutch Boy Top Quality paint instead of their original whitewash... well, my wife and I decided an amount that WE were happy with and basically told the landlord they accept that or speak with our attorney. The conversation went no further...we were refunded the difference and everything was cool.


If it was cheap original whitwash when you moved in, why did you pay them for more expensive paint???
You gave the landlord money and for sure he didn't paint the appartment but just took your money.
It's a common scam.

When I moved out of my appartment in Lima the landlord wanted us to paint the appartment too but there was no stain at all. We never repainted it or paid for paint.
And we didn't pay the last months rent. To ensure that the landlord couldn't keep the deposit.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby MarcoPE » Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:50 pm

chi chi wrote:If it was cheap original whitwash when you moved in, why did you pay them for more expensive paint???


I didn't ... I paid ONLY for what it would have cost to pay for the ORIGINAL paint! Fine by me...
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby americorps » Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:31 pm

Part of what Chi CHi said is untrue. it is false to presume that you are not liable for normal wear and tear, as in Peru most contracts state you need to return the apartment in the same condition as it was when you rented it. That leave you liable not only for things like painting and small scratches, but if the electricity shorts out or the toilet no longer flushes properly, you need to fix those as well.

If the paint bubbles simply due to climate, as is very common in Peru, it is still your responsibility.

The law is not very clear, but it basically has been enforced in such a way that if things happened in the first couple of months, you can demand they be fixed, after that, it becomes your responsibility unless defined by the contract. I now demand that I have a 90 day warentee on my apartments for things like plumbing, electricity and the like.

However, unless it was stated in the contract when you rented the quality of paint, the brand of light-bulbs, you are not required to to honor any such requests made at the end of the agreement.

The one thing Chi Chi got right was the Sunat thing.

Your landlord must declare the rental income to Sunat and when you move out, you are entitled, by law, for a copy of their Sunat receipts. If they do not have them, then inform that that you will need to file with Sunat for that information. Sunat even has a form you can download over the internet so it helps to have that form in your hand, filled out. Make sure they understand that if they have not declared the rental income to Sunat, and you file for your receipt that they have, that Sunat will audit them and collect back taxes and fine them heavily.

If you can get letters from technicians, the cable company for any of the crap they pulled with the cable and water and anything like that, then you could also download the ENDICOPI consumer complaint forms and fill those out and offer to submit those complaints as well. Those go into arbitration with Indicopi and again, besides resolving the complaint in which they will likely owe you money, if Indecopi finds they violated consumer law, they can also receive a fine on top of the settlement amount.

Sometimes just the threat alone will suffice, but I believe if you actually fill out the forms to show the landlord, that makes it much more real to them.

What I do not understand about your original post is asking if there is an American office you can take your complaint to. If I understand that, the simple answer is no, as you are in Peru and there are NO US laws that apply here and the Consular services from the Embassy do not bother with such things.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby kuranaga » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:47 am

The owner is supposed to pay a tax on the rental income. You can ask him if he paid for it and ask for the receipts. If he didn't pay it then you can tell him that you will report him to SUNAT if he doesn't pay your deposit back. This helps generally in all cases.


it is typical... the only thing that works are threats...
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby chi chi » Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:40 pm

kuranaga wrote:
The owner is supposed to pay a tax on the rental income. You can ask him if he paid for it and ask for the receipts. If he didn't pay it then you can tell him that you will report him to SUNAT if he doesn't pay your deposit back. This helps generally in all cases.


it is typical... the only thing that works are threats...


The owner charged him $550 for a flat that isn't much according to him.
Then stole his cable TV and water. And then want to charge him extortionate prices for the repairs.
And I am sure he won't pay back the deposit.

In this case, you have to be tough.
I hope the owner didn't pay the taxes to SUNAT because that's as far as I know the best thing he can use against the owner and generally this helps.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby renodante » Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:17 pm

it's because of things like this that my policy now is to make sure i'm in the position where i have the upper hand come move out time.

my landlord is not getting rent for the last month i live here. my deposit will be my rent. in fact, i'll probably move and just send them an email before i go saying i'm gone and the apartment is empty, i'll be on the plane by the time they get the mail.

this is because i refuse to refurbish their apartment for them, as is the peruvian tradition it seems, to scam your renters into completely refurbishing the house/apartment and take all of their deposit money. going to make sure there's no way that can happen this time.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby chi chi » Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:23 pm

renodante wrote:it's because of things like this that my policy now is to make sure i'm in the position where i have the upper hand come move out time.

my landlord is not getting rent for the last month i live here. my deposit will be my rent. in fact, i'll probably move and just send them an email before i go saying i'm gone and the apartment is empty, i'll be on the plane by the time they get the mail.


That's what I did as well.

And I think that's not to bad for the landlord. Many people don't pay the last few monts rent before moving out so in this way the landlord still gets all months rent and that's a fair deal.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby renodante » Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:33 pm

oh btw, i've used the SUNAT Nuclear Option. It works like a charm. Shuts them down real quick and turns them to putty in your hands.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby lizzym » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:10 pm

When we moved out of our last apartment, I suggested to the bf not paying the last month's rent rather than crossing my fingers and hoping for a fair deal with the return of the deposit. (This was after reading some of the stories here, hehe.)

His response: yeah of course, that's what you do... I wonder if the honest expectation of paying up to the end and getting the deposit returned (as is done in some of our home countries) is not the standard here and maybe just invites the owner to take advantage?

Our landlords didn't seem in the least surprised or bothered that we didn't pay the last month of the contract, and took it as notice that we were moving out rather than renewing.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby chi chi » Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:02 pm

lizzym wrote:When we moved out of our last apartment, I suggested to the bf not paying the last month's rent rather than crossing my fingers and hoping for a fair deal with the return of the deposit. (This was after reading some of the stories here, hehe.)

His response: yeah of course, that's what you do... I wonder if the honest expectation of paying up to the end and getting the deposit returned (as is done in some of our home countries) is not the standard here and maybe just invites the owner to take advantage?

Our landlords didn't seem in the least surprised or bothered that we didn't pay the last month of the contract, and took it as notice that we were moving out rather than renewing.


I think that what a lot of people do in Peru.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby cally » Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:06 pm

I wish I'd known about the Sunat tax thing... we got completely gouged by our former landlords, it was a right mess. We had always had a good relationship with them and the apartment was in very good shape so I couldn't bring myself to withhold that last month rent. Boy have I learned my lesson.

When it came down to it, they delayed and delayed, and insisted on their own "decorator" to repaint the entire apartment (not just the two walls with mould and bubbled the paint). His quote was about six times our quote. Then they discounted the most ridiculous things.

In the end they gave us back $800 out of $2200. I ended up withholding payment of some gas bills and our last electricity bill totalling about $300 as a means of recouping some of our losses and now the landlord is hounding me over that. It leaves me with a bad feeling, but there is no way I am paying them a cent more. Sadly, in Peru, it's best to act like a Peruvian and assume the other party will always try to rip you off.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby chi chi » Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:32 pm

cally wrote:In the end they gave us back $800 out of $2200. I ended up withholding payment of some gas bills and our last electricity bill totalling about $300 as a means of recouping some of our losses and now the landlord is hounding me over that. It leaves me with a bad feeling, but there is no way I am paying them a cent more. Sadly, in Peru, it's best to act like a Peruvian and assume the other party will always try to rip you off.


Cally, you can still go back to that landlord and threat with reporting him to SUNAT. It's never too late.

I think that landlords try to ripp off their good tenants to recuperate losses the suffered from previous bad tenants.

According to the article below, it takes on average 1305 days!!!! to evict a tenant. Or 3.5 years. For landlords that have a mortgage on the property they rent out, this can be a disaster. They could get their property repossesed by the bank.

http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Lati ... and-Tenant
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby americorps » Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:11 pm

Chi Chi is right, though confusing. The confusing thing was mentioning the eviction time which is more or less true, but sort of disconnected to the other part of the statement, especially as you have already moved.

Send your ex landlord a note simply demanding a copy of the SUNAT tax receipts as you are entitled to them by law for up to 1 year after you move..for the ENTIRE time you were a renter. Say if he does not have them, that you will file directly with SUNAT. Tell your landlord that you will not discuss any further financial issues with him until you have the SUNAT receipts.

I suspect you will never hear from him again with your total being 1100 Soles refund including the gas bill credit, out of 2200 soles deposit, you got off better than most.

Again, I am so sorry this happened to you.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby chi chi » Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:41 pm

cally wrote:In the end they gave us back $800 out of $2200. I ended up withholding payment of some gas bills and our last electricity bill totalling about $300 as a means of recouping some of our losses and now the landlord is hounding me over that. It leaves me with a bad feeling, but there is no way I am paying them a cent more. Sadly, in Peru, it's best to act like a Peruvian and assume the other party will always try to rip you off.


americorps wrote:C
I suspect you will never hear from him again with your total being 1100 Soles refund including the gas bill credit, out of 2200 soles deposit, you got off better than most.
Again, I am so sorry this happened to you.


I think that she should ask her full deposit back. The landlord gave only $800 back. So minus the electricity and gas bill, he still owes her $1100 dollars. (Almost 3000 soles) That's a lot of money in Peru.

So, I suggest that she demands proof of the SUNAT payments. If he doesn't have them she should ask to get her full deposit back or threaten to go to SUNAT. I am sure she will get her money back very rapido.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby americorps » Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:49 pm

Chi Chi, you are right, they could ask for it. If the landlord fights though, the renters are unlikely to win unless they did a walk-through with the landlord and have photos of each and every thing the landlord says was wrong with the apartment. While evicting someone is a nightmare for landlords, most other leasing laws favor landlords and the renter really has as much if not more obligation to verify their claim as does the landlord to refute it.

Plus that fact that Peruvian rental law requires an apartment be returned in the condition it was when leased as opposed to allowing for normal wear and tear, if the renter did not paint and fix every nick and scratch and leaky pipe and washed all curtains and cleaned the light bulbs, those are all things the landlord can charge for.

And you have to be careful how you word things. If you are more passive about it, and just demand the receipts and leave the threat veiled, it is one thing, if the threat appears to be extortion, that could backfire should things escalate.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby Lloyd007 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:06 pm

Slightly off topic, but thought I'd ask as it is a similar type of thing:

The admin in my apartment building asked all tenants for money to repaint and do some remodelling of our building a few weeks before Christmas. This includes a completely refurbished lobby, large glass doors to replace wooden ones and a few other things. I paid a portion when the bill was presented but a week or so later, we sold our place and moved out.

The work remains on going even today, very sloooooooooow progress being made, and only about half complete a month after it was begun.

Should I pay the other part (about S/.600) as requested today by the admin guy who I happened to bump in to(who I have never trusted) or does it now rest with the new owner? Any advice?
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby chi chi » Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:42 pm

Lloyd007 wrote:Slightly off topic, but thought I'd ask as it is a similar type of thing:

The admin in my apartment building asked all tenants for money to repaint and do some remodelling of our building a few weeks before Christmas. This includes a completely refurbished lobby, large glass doors to replace wooden ones and a few other things. I paid a portion when the bill was presented but a week or so later, we sold our place and moved out.

The work remains on going even today, very sloooooooooow progress being made, and only about half complete a month after it was begun.

Should I pay the other part (about S/.600) as requested today by the admin guy who I happened to bump in to(who I have never trusted) or does it now rest with the new owner? Any advice?


Do like most Peruvians would do. Just don't pay. Are you going to give money to everyone who asks you for money.

He already got money from you. Probably he overcharged you because you are a gringo. If you give him more money, he soon ask for money again for invented costs.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby chi chi » Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:02 pm

I rented a local in Lima to run my business from in LIma and had some problems with the owner too.

But we took drastic measures and got things resolved.

When we moved in the owner told us that water and electricity meter were individual. But friends of us that had the same type of business and the same amount of work as us told us that they paid less. So, we went to investigate. One day after dark, I stood outside the building and asked my gf to switch off the main switch... the lights in the flat above the local went out too and in the flat next to the shop too where the owner lived.
We talked to the owner next day but she denied that we were paying for the 2 flats as well and refused to refund money.

So, we did the following. We went for a week on vacation to La Selva and before leaving Lima shut off the main water and electricity supply. (they were both located inside the shop) Whilst we were away, we got a few hundred phonecalls and SMS from the owner. (Which we didn't respond of course.)

When we got back she stormed into our shop and was angry we shutted off the supply. We told her that everyday after closing the busines when we go home will shut off the supplies as well.

Then she finally admitted that she was scamming us. We told us how much our friends were paying for their business and she refunded us the difference.

At the end when we moved out we didn't pay the last 2 months rent in order to be sure she couldn't keep our 2 months deposit.


You have to play it tough in Peru and never show that you are scared otherwise you will get scammed. If people can scam you, they will scam you.


http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/whowants ... tgoing.htm
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby americorps » Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:48 pm

I offer advice how to fix the problems within the system. I may be persistent and even aggressive, but I do NOT advocate going outside the law.

I find Chi Chi advocating illegal activities offensive and dangerous and I am surprised that is allowed on the board.

I am talking about refusing to pay your rent to ensure your deposit is returned. How about if you did not leave the location in full proper condition. You seem to feel that because someone else is or will be dishonest, you have some sort of moral right to be as well. Finding justification to break the law because you think someone else may also break the law is not a defense that will hold up in court.

I find that sort of advice unsettling. I think it is better than one be smart to protect themselves instead of dishonest.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby Lloyd007 » Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:53 am

Chi Chi I think that was perhaps the best and quickest way to find out if you were being scammed and your suspicions were right. It never ceases to amaze me how low people will stoop here in Peru to scam someone and take advantage, especially of the foreigners. And refusing to pay your last months rent, in some cases, is the only way to ensure you'll get it back. I know someone in that process right now, and he is doing it because the owner is a nightmare and will clearly try to not re-pay it. I'm not saying it's right, just that sometimes you have to give as good as you get.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby chi chi » Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:55 am

americorps wrote:I find Chi Chi advocating illegal activities offensive and dangerous and I am surprised that is allowed on the board.

I am talking about refusing to pay your rent to ensure your deposit is returned. How about if you did not leave the location in full proper condition. You seem to feel that because someone else is or will be dishonest, you have some sort of moral right to be as well. Finding justification to break the law because you think someone else may also break the law is not a defense that will hold up in court.

I find that sort of advice unsettling. I think it is better than one be smart to protect themselves instead of dishonest.


I personnaly left the property I rented in the same condition as I found it. I want to avoid that landlords laugh in front of my face because I am the gringo who has been 'engagnado'. And this happens to so many gringos.
If a landlord can 'engagnar' a gringo, he will do it. Because, he knows that the gringo can do nothing at all or even won't realise that he has been scammed.

And in the case of the shop I rented, I was for a 100% sure that she was going to invent a reason for not giving back the deposit. From one of the neigboors, I found out that she had problems in the past with tenants regarding to keeping deposits and telling that the electricity and water meter is individual although it isn't.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby americorps » Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:49 am

Again, I realize you can easily justify behaving immoral, unethical and illegal because they did it to.

I do not find that justification legitimate, in fact I find it outrageous.

I insist that there are ways to protect yourself by acting smarter instead of unethical.

Eye for an eye was a Philistine law in the Bible, not God´s will.

An eye for an eye makes us all blind.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby chi chi » Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:54 am

americorps wrote:

I insist that there are ways to protect yourself by acting smarter instead of unethical.



So give us an example of a smart way.



(I didn't pay the last 2 months rent to recover my deposit as I was for a 100% sure that she would have kept the deposit. She did it with all her previous tenants.

Should I have given her my money and go begging to get it back afterwards although I know she would never get it back?)
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby falconagain » Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:13 pm

americorps wrote:Again, I realize you can easily justify behaving immoral, unethical and illegal because they did it to.

I do not find that justification legitimate, in fact I find it outrageous.

I insist that there are ways to protect yourself by acting smarter instead of unethical.

Eye for an eye was a Philistine law in the Bible, not God´s will.

An eye for an eye makes us all blind.


True it is immoral, unethical and illegal and it has no justification. But unfortunately Chi Chis advice
is what it works within Peruvian society. If you can get away with it, without being caught.
Good for you. Because sometimes this is the only way that you can guarantee your survival.

Many Peruvians with who you will do business will try to scam based on the perception of who you are
(streetwise Peruvians have a myth that Gringo and Sonso go together /White-American and stupid/),
If they believe that you are fair, just and moral they will think that you are retarded and try to scam you
first. If they know that you do not like violence, they will apply violence towards you. If they know that
some law is on their side, they will abuse it to get an advantage. It sounds like I am describing a pack
of wild animals. But actually wild animals are more civilized and sincere than most people that I met
within Peruvian society.

A very good example of this is the last years of Fujimori government. Many wealthy Peruvians had
their business confiscated. Fujimori went as far as removing from the country a Peruvian Billionaire
in order to confiscate its properties. Still until today none of them has received compensation and
their cases are stuck in Peruvian courts. If there was any kind of violent response from these people
the government might have tried to provide some compensation. But because they are to civilized
they lost everything.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby chi chi » Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:45 pm

falconagain wrote:Many Peruvians with who you will do business will try to scam based on the perception of who you are
(streetwise Peruvians have a myth that Gringo and Sonso go together /White-American and stupid/),
If they believe that you are fair, just and moral they will think that you are retarded and try to scam you
first. If they know that you do not like violence, they will apply violence towards you. If they know that
some law is on their side, they will abuse it to get an advantage. It sounds like I am describing a pack
of wild animals. But actually wild animals are more civilized and sincere than most people that I met
within Peruvian society.



If many (maybe most) Peruvians see a gringo. They think. He's got mucho dollares. I want his money and think of a way how to get money from him.

You see many advertisements for flats that say ''solo extranjeros'', ''para touristas'', ''extranjeros preferidos''.
They main reason for that is that they can get more money by renting it out to gringos and when the gringo moves out they can easily scam him.

They know if gringos rent a flat temporarely and that the gringo has a flight to catch at the end of his stay and if he misses his flight will lose a lot of money. They say to the gringo they need some time to pay the deposit back and promise to pay it to his bank account or by Western Union....which they will never do.

You should look at the prices of those flats that are aimed at foreigners. Grossly overpriced. Often a gringo pays more for one week than a Peruvian would pay for the whole month.

Stealing and scamming is for many Peruvians the only option available to make a living.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby two jacks » Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:10 pm

Kevin I understand your indignation about what some people are saying however when it comes to money most Peruvians change from Dr, Jekyll to Mr. Hyde. I have lived in a house (separate entrance) for 2 months short of 4 years. The people who own the house used to say call me Momma, etc,, but things changed radically the past couple of years. The house is old and the part of the house I live in had no one in it for 8 years, when their son and family moved out.

When I gave my notice December 27th I stated I would not pay the last months rent, they could use my 1st months desposit. Two days later I received a letter stating that it would cost $462 to paint the apartment, which I did a year or so after I moved in as the paint and color was disgusting. They also want me to replace a fan that is problably 15 years old because 2 blades broke off only because the fan is not mounted properly to the ceiling. I could go on with many other things but the underlying point is after being in Peru for 4.5 years the greed and inconsideration of most people here is one of the main reasons I am leaving Peru.

Yesterday I gave them a note playing the Sunat card, haven't heard a word but by the weekend I will make it clear that they either leave me alone or i will make their life miserable as they have done for me. I do not think this makes me a bad person, my choice to live here the past 4.5 years but to be treated fairly and with respect is important to me and many others.

Considering I need to go thru the main part of the house to remove anything I am going to have a nightmare this month but as Peter Finch stated In Network, ¨Í´m mad as hell, and I´m not going to take this anymore.¨´
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby americorps » Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:32 pm

You all talk like I am a rube. The fact is, I have been here nearly 6 years.

I also do not operate under the presumption of trust, I operate under the presumption that if I do not protect myself, I will get screwed.

However, instead of screwing them before they screw me, I instead just work smarter without becoming like them.

To me, an essential human value is that if you find their behavior reprehensible, and your response is to behave like them, society looses as there is NOTHING that separates you from them.

I have every contract notarized with penalties for failure to comply. I know the people at Endicopi and Osiptel on a first name basis.

I video tape and take pictures when I enter and leave an apartment. I tape record conversations where legal and communicate via email when possible. I keep copious notes of who I spoke to, when and what was said.

The times I have been screwed and was not able to fix it was when I did not cover my behind.

I find the concept that the only way to not get it in the end is by giving it to them first rather sad. Again, i point to the fact that I respect it if you want to solve the problem by working smarter and better prepared, not be being faster at cheating than they are.

I get it, the business culture here is NOT conducive, by and large, to Western standards of ethics, but nearly 6 years has taught me that i do not have to become underhanded to win and I do not respect it when people do.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby two jacks » Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:46 pm

Once again I respect your thoughts and opinions but the measures you have mentioned are just not conducive to happy living, closer to paranoia. And what you are suggesting I do not totally agree with as it is never a good idea to bring a knife to a gunfight, and that is what most peruvians here expect from foreigners
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby rama0929 » Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:01 pm

And people wonder why I'm hesitant to pack up and move there...
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby rama0929 » Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:04 pm

two jacks wrote:Once again I respect your thoughts and opinions but the measures you have mentioned are just not conducive to happy living, closer to paranoia.


Seems to be par for the course in Peru. Fight with the landlord to get your security deposit back. Fight with the landlord for any number of reasons, fight to get your pay on time, fight, fight, fight.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby two jacks » Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:14 pm

I am only a single opinion however, Peru is closer to Hell than it is to Paradise. If anyone could honestly say that they are happier here instead of where they came from I will gladly buy them a drink or two and pay for their first session on the couch. :lol:
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby chi chi » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:26 pm

two jacks wrote:I am only a single opinion however, Peru is closer to Hell than it is to Paradise. If anyone could honestly say that they are happier here instead of where they came from I will gladly buy them a drink or two and pay for their first session on the couch. :lol:


I lived in lived in 8 different countries and was happy in all of them. Every country has it advantages and disadvantages. I always try enjoy the advantages and to avoid the disadvantages.

I like to change so now and then. After almost 3 years in Peru, I am now preparing to move to another country.

Regarding to the problems with landlords. Every country where I rented a place, I always used my deposit to pay the last months rent. But always left the place in the same condition I found it.
Not only in Peru are dishonest landlords. They are everywhere.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby rideout » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:54 pm

two jacks wrote:I am only a single opinion however, Peru is closer to Hell than it is to Paradise. If anyone could honestly say that they are happier here instead of where they came from I will gladly buy them a drink or two and pay for their first session on the couch.


Whenever I read someone on here saying that they want to move to Lima, because they were here once or twice before on a 2 week vacation and loved it, "especially the people," I laugh because I think that maybe their home is Dante's 5th circle of hell :lol: And, I'm very sorry to report that you don't owe me a drink :(
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby americorps » Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:07 pm

two jacks wrote:Once again I respect your thoughts and opinions but the measures you have mentioned are just not conducive to happy living, closer to paranoia. And what you are suggesting I do not totally agree with as it is never a good idea to bring a knife to a gunfight, and that is what most Peruvians here expect from foreigners


It is not hard nor time consuming, it just requires you forming the habit. I take notes while on the phone, I do not loose any significant time in my life, I also do not bother for small contracts usually, just bigger ones. in fact, to me, it seems much easier than constantly plotting how to be underhanded and scheming,the screw them before they screw me approach seems much more tainted, paranoid, dirty and difficult.

It works and at the end of the day, I do not have to justify being dirty or underhanded to try and feel better about myself, I can be proud that I took the high road.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby mateo » Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:47 pm

i got it!

why not take the alleged moral high ground and get your money back legally and ethically.

and then...

still report the stupid pain in the ass to SUNAT!

its not a difficult balance between living life with a smile on your face, a good night's sleep, and still making sure that ornery jerks get what they deserve.

some call it "irish diplomacy:"

the ability to tell someone to go to hell so that they actually look forward to the trip.

:D
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby chi chi » Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:08 pm

mateo wrote:i got it!

why not take the alleged moral high ground and get your money back legally and ethically.

and then...

still report the stupid pain in the *** to SUNAT!

:D


If I rent something in the future and the landlords hassles me then for sure I will do it too.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby renodante » Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:27 pm

its not a difficult balance between living life with a smile on your face, a good night's sleep, and still making sure that ornery jerks get what they deserve.

some call it "irish diplomacy:"


Coming from generations of new york irish cops, i know this well.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby NexLevel » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:53 am

two jacks wrote:I am only a single opinion however, Peru is closer to Hell than it is to Paradise. If anyone could honestly say that they are happier here instead of where they came from I will gladly buy them a drink or two and pay for their first session on the couch. :lol:


Looks like you owe me a couple of drinks then :-)

I left the US 2 years and I love the life here and wouldn't even consider moving back to the states. Granted, I live in La Molina, so my experience is a little different than someone living in miraflores, san isidro, or surco.

Up here, the air is clean and there's not too much traffic. The sun shines all year long and its also a lot warmer too, which means little to no mold in the winter.

The food! I've never eaten such good tasting food in all my life. Makes me sick to think of the crap I was consuming in the states.

Yes, they do have a weird way of doing things and a lot of people's ethics here are screwed up, but there's also a lot of great people here. Unfortunately, if you follow the advice on this board, you never get to meet any of these people.

Do you know how many wonderful conversations I've had with taxi drivers who asked me where I was from? They just wanted to talk to a gringo and here what its like in the US or ask me what I like about peru.

If you walk around the city, bitching about how its not the US, mistrustful of everyone, looking down on people, is it any wonder you will get hostile reactions from people and hate living here.

Lets not forget the US is not all milk and honey either. We have our own horrific crimes (Columbine), we have our own crooks (bernie madoff), we have corrupt politicans, road rage, crackheads, riots, police shootings, hurricanes, floods, earthquakes, human trafficking, drug dealing, prostitution, teen pregnancy, gangs, etc...
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby two jacks » Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:14 am

Next level tell me when you want to have those drinks, but as I have told many of my friends here (Peruvians with money) that they all live in a ¨´BUBBLE¨´ and it certainly appears you have fallen into that category.

MY first 2 years were also good but as time wears on I truly believe you will change your thinking.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby Kelly » Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:22 am

I've lived here for 8 years, I'm with NexLevel.

I've lived in Miraflores, in a decent part of Surquillo, and in a very poor part of Surquillo. My first house had a thatch roof and no hot water. I was surrounded by hard working people that welcomed me into their neighborhood and helped make me feel at home.

Yes, there are things here that get on my nerves - but no more than there were in the US.

Trust me - stores and shopkeepers in the US aren't any more ethical than those here in Peru - there's just better laws and enforcement keeping them in line.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby cally » Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:31 am

Thanks so much for the advice. I think I will do as you suggest to avoid further nastiness. You're right, I did get off better than some people, and have learned a lesson for next time. It just makes me so sad that this kind of behaviour is so rampant in Peruvian society. The idea of community, and a certain level of trust that I always took for granted growing up, is so valuable. (Not that I am saying my country is perfect, of course loads of dodgy dealing goes on there as well... )



americorps wrote:Chi Chi is right, though confusing. The confusing thing was mentioning the eviction time which is more or less true, but sort of disconnected to the other part of the statement, especially as you have already moved.

Send your ex landlord a note simply demanding a copy of the SUNAT tax receipts as you are entitled to them by law for up to 1 year after you move..for the ENTIRE time you were a renter. Say if he does not have them, that you will file directly with SUNAT. Tell your landlord that you will not discuss any further financial issues with him until you have the SUNAT receipts.

I suspect you will never hear from him again with your total being 1100 Soles refund including the gas bill credit, out of 2200 soles deposit, you got off better than most.

Again, I am so sorry this happened to you.
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Re: Moving from house but with problems from owner

Postby xpatenperu » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:28 am

Under my old ID DC20833 I was the one who first suggested the idea of reporting "rip off" landlords to SUNAT for non-payment of taxes when I had a lady in my building who rented an apartment from a problematic landlord who made her tenants lives miserable and the owners lives miserable too.

I came to Peru in 2006 and started purchasing apartments and have seen the rents and values skyrocket I now have seven apartments 2 furnished and 5 unfurnished. As a landlord I pride myself in ETHICAL treatment of my tenants and I do return DEPOSITS WITH INTEREST because I do as you should as a Landlord and deposit that money in the bank and let it draw interest I SHOW MY TENANTS all receipts to tenants to let them know how I do business. UNLIKE most landlords here I waive my right to receive the apartment back in original condition and allow normal wear and tear. I also state in my leases that all repairs are my responsibility and ban the tenant from authorizing ANY repair I have rented before and it is just human nature to fix stuff cheaply if you do not own the place I WANT STUFF FIXED AND FIXED RIGHT when it goes bad I calculate this in the price of the rent. I carefully screen tenants and I have few problems and have never had to evict a tenant. When it is all said and done I get about a 7% return on my apartments and that does not take into account what I will get for the apartment when I sell it. While this has been a lucrative business for me it is a lot of work especially with the furnished apartments. At this point, I will probably be selling off the furniture and items in the furnished apartments and letting those go into the unfurnished market.

I know of several Peruvian landlords who do business ethically but do require the tenants to return the property to be returned to it´s original condition and require tenants to fix stuff. Here is some advice screen your landlord. Any ethical landlord will be more than willing to show you doocumentation that they return deposits. Also, have the lease clearly state if they are requiring you to return the property in it´s original condition that you have the right to choose your own contractors. An ethical PERUVIAN will have no issues with showing you documentation that they fulfill their end of the contract (i.e. return deposits forget about interest, that I do for business purposes). Believe me when I say it, most landlords here are honest they just want the rent on time and the maintenance paid. There are bad eggs here as far as landlords are concerned.

Believe me when I say it the SUNAT trick works as evidenced by the many people who have used it with great results and as a LANDLORD I want those scumbag LANDLORDS to face the music as it gives all of us a bad name. INDECOPI is also great too and that should alsoo be used.

In closing, I know if you use a mover you are supposed to get a permit to move which requires a written authorization from the property owner and I have had to withhold that when a tenant withheld the last mont´s rent. All of my buildings have doormen and in the one case where the tenant withheld the rent I refused to sign the authorization. Furthermore, I told the doormen to contact me should the tenant move early. I in turn called the police and stopped the move and the Police made the mover return all items loaded to the apartment when the tenant ATTEMPTED to moved early. I believe the tenants hired a truck from one of the markets to do the move and the truck owner was probably unaware of the regulations. In that situation I changed the locks and told the doormen to NOT allow the tenants back into the building in the end they paid me the final month´s rent and then I authorized the move but had my assistant on site to make sure my apartment was not damaged. In that situation I did not pay the tenant interest on their deposit and subtracted the cost of my assistant being on site for a full day from their deposit plus $250 for my time and trouble. The tenant did contact INDECOPI and they ruled that I had to return $125 but did not fine me they just told me that I was not in the US and $250 was high. I had reported the full $250 as rental income to SUNAT and paid the taxes so I had to eat that LESSON LEARNED

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