they walk like they drive

[teamoperu]

They walk like they drive. That is to say, walk 3-4 abreast when there is only room for 2, on the sidewalks just like the roadways. The most aggressive walker parts the sea yet there are few collisions. They cross in front of you, making you halt, as they dart into the store, just as they do turning right from the second lane. Ambulantes clutter the pathway sticking products in your face on the sidewalks, just like they do to cars on the roadway. And woe be to you if one of those short Quechua ladies with her cute little steps can get a shoulder in front of you, then you are toast.

Ever stood by the side, out of the way, and noticed how many times you are slightly bumped? People turn their shoulders just enough to get by, all the while smashing you with their bags? Maybe the analogy would be better if I said they walk like they were in bumper cars, careening from side-to-side based on slight contact.

Just having a wee bit of fun here, but all good humour has a bit of truth in it.

[susita83]

Sounds like Manhattan Still love it though.

[renodante]

That is to say, walk 3-4 abreast when there is only room for 2

i used to get extremely angry about it, i've finally learned to let go with that one.

People turn their shoulders just enough to get by

oh that's if they're feeling especially benevolent that day.

i've posted about this before, my favorite is when i am loaded up with heavy bags of groceries, going out of my way to hug a wall or a curb to stay out of people's way, and they STILL head directly at me. after one or two times of this my M.O is now "ok, GAME ON then!" i just outright slam into them full force with an arm full of heavy groceries and stare at them maniacally when they yell "OYE" "PUTA MADRE" "AYE" etc. you saw me coming towards you from half a block away, you see i'm loaded up with bags, i'm already practically in traffic yet you're willing to force me onto the street, or straight up into a wall? "oye" nothing.

Sounds like Manhattan Still love it though.

you've kind of stumped me with this one. granted i moved out of nyc like 13 years ago, but in my experience new yorkers are the most efficient sidewalk maneuverers on earth. the sidewalk can be packed full of people but everything is fast and smooth.

[chi chi]

That is to say, walk 3-4 abreast when there is only room for 2

i used to get extremely angry about it, i've finally learned to let go with that one.

People turn their shoulders just enough to get by

oh that's if they're feeling especially benevolent that day.

i've posted about this before, my favorite is when i am loaded up with heavy bags of groceries, going out of my way to hug a wall or a curb to stay out of people's way, and they STILL head directly at me. after one or two times of this my M.O is now "ok, GAME ON then!" i just outright slam into them full force with an arm full of heavy groceries and stare at them maniacally when they yell "OYE" "PUTA MADRE" "AYE" etc. you saw me coming towards you from half a block away, you see i'm loaded up with bags, i'm already practically in traffic yet you're willing to force me onto the street, or straight up into a wall? "oye" nothing.

It´s not nice to do that. It´s their country so we as gringos have to step aside if they arrive. We must give them priority. We must be submissive and show respect.

When I drive, I stop to let pedestrians cross the road. If I am driving and see someone walking on a deserted road, then I offer them a lift.

I never had anyone bumping into me. It´s rare to pass other people in La Selva. Sometimes, I don´t see other people for a week.

[susita83]

Sounds like Manhattan Still love it though.

you've kind of stumped me with this one. granted i moved out of nyc like 13 years ago, but in my experience new yorkers are the most efficient sidewalk maneuverers on earth. the sidewalk can be packed full of people but everything is fast and smooth.

You must have been in the business district and not where all the tourists are
If you're talking about Lower Manhattan/Wall St., you're right, they're pretty efficient - gotta get to work. But most of the touristy, midtown blocks are full of crazies. Not to mention, they just stop in large groups on the sidewalk to take pictures of stuff. You gotta love when the "do not walk" signal comes on and it's like no one knows it's there.

Growing up I was told the "do not walk" (aka the little red flashing guy) meant RUN!!!!

[falconagain]

One time a Peruvian person got offended by that kind of criticism. And sent
a letter to Ruedas y Tuercas (El Comercio magazine about cars) saying the
following: I hear a lot of people that scream to me on the streets saying
that I cannot drive my old chevy the same way I used to drive my cows
back in Apurica. I think that the road is free and that there is no rules
about it.

The editor of the magazine replied by posting a picture of the Drivers
Manual from the Touring and the one of the pages where the rules of
the road are explained with pictures.

As you can see no one pays attention to the driving rules in Peru, less
they are going to pay attention to the rules of civilized walking.

[douglas8]

glad someone started this thread

my thoughts on lima pedestrian and motorised traffic

i am totally perplexed at the slow rate of walking...for a large metropolis of 7-8 million everybody walks slower than my grandmother! travelled all over the world and have never seen teenagers walk so slow in my life...sometimes it's like they arent moving...

have you ever seen someone drive up to a spot a fast as they possibly can screech to a stop then proceed to get out and walk at a snails pace....that is the total contradiction i see here....cars as fast as possible -walking as slow as possible.

also anyone noticed that a busy wong is exactly like the streets here, mayhem and disorder with too many people for the space but few physical crashes.

[chi chi]

i am totally perplexed at the slow rate of walking...for a large metropolis of 7-8 million everybody walks slower than my grandmother! travelled all over the world and have never seen teenagers walk so slow in my life...sometimes it's like they arent moving...

I noticed that when I see gringos, they walk quick. Like they are in a hurry.

I like to walk slow. So, I can take the time to smell the beautifull plants and flowers and to enjoy the lush mountainviews and waving palmtrees.

[rama0929]

It´s not nice to do that. It´s their country so we as gringos have to step aside if they arrive. We must give them priority. We must be submissive and show respect.

They didn't get dropped, that's as submissive and respectful as it gets

[rama0929]

But most of the touristy, midtown blocks are full of crazies. Not to mention, they just stop in large groups on the sidewalk to take pictures of stuff. You gotta love when the "do not walk" signal comes on and it's like no one knows it's there.

It's awesome when they stop in the middle of staircases

[goingnowherefast]

If there's some woman or kid I'll usually try to move, but if it's a guy I'll point my shoulder forward and give them a firm look like 'dude, you're about to get shoulder checked if you keep coming in my lane like that' and almost always said dude gets shoulder checked.

I've also had people walking like directly towards me with blatant disregard, and I'll completely stop and put an elbow out and they'll walk right into it, fall, then look up and give me a look like 'how dare he allow me to walk into him!'

[captsirl]

If there's some woman or kid I'll usually try to move, but if it's a guy I'll point my shoulder forward and give them a firm look like 'dude, you're about to get shoulder checked if you keep coming in my lane like that' and almost always said dude gets shoulder checked.

I've also had people walking like directly towards me with blatant disregard, and I'll completely stop and put an elbow out and they'll walk right into it, fall, then look up and give me a look like 'how dare he allow me to walk into him!'

I love it.
I step to the right when I should and knock them all out of the way. Their system does not work and Im not going to end up like one of them.

[chi chi]

If there's some woman or kid I'll usually try to move, but if it's a guy I'll point my shoulder forward and give them a firm look like 'dude, you're about to get shoulder checked if you keep coming in my lane like that' and almost always said dude gets shoulder checked.

I've also had people walking like directly towards me with blatant disregard, and I'll completely stop and put an elbow out and they'll walk right into it, fall, then look up and give me a look like 'how dare he allow me to walk into him!'

An even better idea: don't wash yourself for weeks and hold a bag of caramelos in front of you. People will walk around you.

[renodante]

You must have been in the business district and not where all the tourists are

yeah i'm talking about areas with high concentrations of actual new yorkers. new yorkers are selfish and pushy, but they understand that if they clog up the machine, everyone suffers, and there's bigtime social consequences for being slow and inefficient, and the consequences are immediate and harsh. Limenos...oblivious to this, completely, most of the time of course.

It´s not nice to do that. It´s their country so we as gringos have to step aside if they arrive

nah, sorry. my personal space is my little U.S embassy. invade it and you've declared war with me

especially when i'm going out of my way to make room for you. i don't give a damn what country i'm in or what the culture is, that level of rudeness will not, and should not be tolerated. sorry, it's the "american" in me, no turning back now.

They didn't get dropped, that's as submissive and respectful as it gets

indeed.

It's awesome when they stop in the middle of staircases

or right smack in the middle of a doorway. totally oblivious. "it's cool, just consider the entire planet an extension of your living room. have absolutely no regard for other people at all, great way to go about your daily business."

ok this is a lame pet peeve and if i were a younger man it wouldn't bother me, but the checkout counter at grocery stores here drives me totally insane pretty much every time. you see that little plastic shelf unit thingy they've built there? well, THAT'S where you pay for your groceries. that big ol' black belt thingy you've loaded your stuff on, that's where I now am going to put my stuff. if you stand RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE of that, i can't put my stuff there. that's not where you wait to pay, that's where you put your groceries. so, i just reach around them and put my groceries there, and just look at them blankly when they shoot me a look. "problem?" the lane would go 3x faster if everyone just did this one simple thing of getting out of the way and paying where they should pay.

also anyone noticed that a busy wong is exactly like the streets here, mayhem and disorder with too many people for the space but few physical crashes.

definitely, not just Wong, any big store. again, it just boils down to "i don't give a damn about anyone but myself and my immediate family." it's not a conscious thing i'm sure, but nevertheless it's an epidemic.

[chi chi]

It´s not nice to do that. It´s their country so we as gringos have to step aside if they arrive

nah, sorry. my personal space is my little U.S embassy. invade it and you've declared war with me

especially when i'm going out of my way to make room for you. i don't give a damn what country i'm in or what the culture is, that level of rudeness will not, and should not be tolerated. sorry, it's the "american" in me, no turning back now.
[quote]

Don't be upset by things that may appear rude to you. You cannot change it and the people won't change for you.
If you move to another country then there will be things that you don't like. If they are too hard too handle then it's better than you go back to your own country.

Don't get stressed by the things you don't like. Enjoy the good benefits of living in Peru.

Rude behaviour often get caused by stress which is common in big cities.

Move to the provinces and you will experience that Peruvians are the friendliest people in the world.

[susita83]

You must have been in the business district and not where all the tourists are

yeah i'm talking about areas with high concentrations of actual new yorkers. new yorkers are selfish and pushy, but they understand that if they clog up the machine, everyone suffers, and there's bigtime social consequences for being slow and inefficient, and the consequences are immediate and harsh. Limenos...oblivious to this, completely, most of the time of course.

Ewww. I resent that comment. I'm an "actual New Yorker."

[calygirl]

Don't be upset by things that may appear rude to you. You cannot change it and the people won't change for you.
If you move to another country then there will be things that you don't like. If they are too hard too handle then it's better than you go back to your own country.

Don't get stressed by the things you don't like. Enjoy the good benefits of living in Peru.

Rude behaviour often get caused by stress which is common in big cities.

Good words, Chi Chi. I agree with your thoughts on this one. LIfe is short, enjoy what you can and move past the stuff that annoys you.

[canadiantraveller]

Love this post and can't agree more.

One day walking along the sidewalk in Pardo, I could see a lady was not going to get out of the way so i started moving over to avoid her, she kept coming at me, she got so close, she ended up taking the shoe right off my foot and then just kept going, didn't even phase her.

Hit and run!

[teamoperu]

i am totally perplexed at the slow rate of walking...for a large metropolis of 7-8 million everybody walks slower than my grandmother! travelled all over the world and have never seen teenagers walk so slow in my life...sometimes it's like they arent moving...

Yup, they go slow, and good for them. Only time I see a Peruvian actually running it is a dead giveaway he has something stolen under his arm

[chi chi]

Don't be upset by things that may appear rude to you. You cannot change it and the people won't change for you.
If you move to another country then there will be things that you don't like. If they are too hard too handle then it's better than you go back to your own country.

Don't get stressed by the things you don't like. Enjoy the good benefits of living in Peru.

Rude behaviour often get caused by stress which is common in big cities.

Good words, Chi Chi. I agree with your thoughts on this one. LIfe is short, enjoy what you can and move past the stuff that annoys you.

I don't understand why some expats are complaining about things in Peru. If they just go back to their own country then all problems are solved.

[renodante]

Ewww. I resent that comment. I'm an "actual New Yorker."

haha no no i wasn't referring to you.

[chi chi]

glad someone started this thread

i am totally perplexed at the slow rate of walking...for a large metropolis of 7-8 million everybody walks slower than my grandmother! travelled all over the world and have never seen teenagers walk so slow in my life...sometimes it's like they arent moving...

My advice: walk slow.

I don´t understand people walk fast. I notice in Peru that the gringos walk fast. Like they are in a hurry.
I walk always very slow. I am always relaxed and never in a hurry.

When I cook dinner, I start preparing the food at 8pm. If the food is ready before 10pm, then you can call it ´fast food´.

When my gf and I walk in the street, we walk so slow, so that there´s always a line of people behind us. It´s like a traffic jam behind us.

When I go somewhere, I always the latest to arrive. But I am also the first to leave. It´s like the king.

[tomsax]

Chi chi, in Peru you are a "gringo" whether you like it or not.

[NRTravel]

Oy.

While I've never been to Peru, I've had just about all of Peru brought here to the US - with my wife's entire family coming and going just about every 5 minutes. I can definitely say that while I thought 'island time' was slow, I have now learned that 'Peruvian time' is MUCH MUCH slower.

Everyone arrives for EVERYTHING very LATE. Late not only in the time sense (ie. arriving at 7:30 for a 7:00 start time), but late in the sense that dinner is at about 10 or 11 PM. By 10 or 11 PM, I've already been awake and / or working on something for a 14 hour day - so I'm not about to sit down and eat a cheerful meal.

I think finding a balance between the hustle and bustle US lifestyle (which I am NOT a fan of and personally, do not partake in for the most part) and the incredibly slow Peruvian lifestyle. Finding that balance (think the couples on 'Wife Swap' LOL) is what could be a good lesson for Peruvians and Americans.

OH - and also - South Americans in general. When you visit Disney World in Orlando, or any other theme parks for that matter, PLEASE STOP WALKING AS A HUMAN CHAIN. It is intolerable. It's like you are creating a barrier to keep everyone else away or stop them from walking. Everyone from every other part of the world hates it and it becomes a frequent topic of discussion at Disney, not only amongst guests but the park employees. We love you all - and we appreciate your business - but

[renodante]

Late not only in the time sense (ie. arriving at 7:30 for a 7:00 start time), but late in the sense that dinner is at about 10 or 11 PM. By 10 or 11 PM

it's not uncommon to see parks full of kids playing on the jungle gym at 11 pm here. i'm not talking homeless kids, they're there with their parents, well dressed. they're night owls here, i kind of like it though, being a night person myself.

[chi chi]

Late not only in the time sense (ie. arriving at 7:30 for a 7:00 start time), but late in the sense that dinner is at about 10 or 11 PM. By 10 or 11 PM

it's not uncommon to see parks full of kids playing on the jungle gym at 11 pm here. i'm not talking homeless kids, they're there with their parents, well dressed. they're night owls here, i kind of like it though, being a night person myself.

People get up very early as well. Around 5 am, the markets are already full of customers.

But all shops and other business are closed between 12 and 4 pm. So, I am sury many people sleep a few hours in the afternoon.

[rama0929]

I don´t understand people walk fast. I notice in Peru that the gringos walk fast. Like they are in a hurry.
I walk always very slow. I am always relaxed and never in a hurry.

Understand I'm 6'2" I cover a lot of ground in a short period of time. Peruvians, with their stubby little legs, not so much

When I go somewhere, I always the latest to arrive. But I am also the first to leave. It´s like the king.

Elvis? Rodney? Martin Luther? Albert? Don?

[chi chi]

I don´t understand people walk fast. I notice in Peru that the gringos walk fast. Like they are in a hurry.
I walk always very slow. I am always relaxed and never in a hurry.

Understand I'm 6'2" I cover a lot of ground in a short period of time. Peruvians, with their stubby little legs, not so much [quote]

I suggest you walk in reverse. You will go slower.

[Kelly]

When I go somewhere, I always the latest to arrive. But I am also the first to leave. It´s like the king.

Elvis? Rodney? Martin Luther? Albert? Don?

Burger?

[chi chi]

When I go somewhere, I always the latest to arrive. But I am also the first to leave. It´s like the king.

Elvis? Rodney? Martin Luther? Albert? Don?

Burger?

I've found something even better: KING KONG.

[amigorick]

This thread is one of the funniest I read in a while. But on a serious note here in Iquitos dodging both other pedestrians and the huge gaping sink holes in the sidewalk can be dangerous. !Ojo!

[americorps]

I don't understand why some expats are complaining about things in Peru. If they just go back to their own country then all problems are solved.

I think we live here, we pay taxes, we are human beings who should feel free to come to an expat site and talk about what confuses us, what bothers us and offer our points of view. In fact that very idea that you think we should not on this site suggests you have no clue what this site is about.

expressing ideas, opinions and emotions is good for the soul, it creates discussion witch leads to education. education leads to understanding. Expression of emotion leads to release of frustration. Who are you to deny that human trait?

You opinion that we should not have these feelings or questions, or if we do we should not express them suggest a disconnect with the very essence of humanity.

[teamoperu]

When I go somewhere, I always the latest to arrive. But I am also the first to leave. It´s like the king.

Elvis? Rodney? Martin Luther? Albert? Don?

Burger?

made me laugh

[lizzym]

chi chi wrote:

I don't understand why some expats are complaining about things in Peru. If they just go back to their own country then all problems are solved.

The day that it was posted, I told my bf about the comment that Peruvians will pull into a parking spot super fast, then get out and walk really slow. He's still laughing about it

[curlyguy18]

When in Rome....

[Kelly]

When in Rome....

Probably the best advice on this thread.

[americorps]

in rome, did they not legalize rape, torture, child molestation and feed Christians to the lions?

[chi chi]

in rome, did they not legalize rape, torture, child molestation and feed Christians to the lions?

In Belgium it´s still legal if you are part of the government. And some people dare to call me a fraudster because I don´t pay taxes to support those criminals.

I am sure they can´t do that within the government of Peru.

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/11/20/world ... andal.html

[americorps]

in rome, did they not legalize rape, torture, child molestation and feed Christians to the lions?

In Belgium it´s still legal if you are part of the government. And some people dare to call me a fraudster because I don´t pay taxes to support those criminals.

I am sure they can´t do that within the government of Peru.

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/11/20/world ... andal.html

if it is dirty to give them money, why is it ok to take their money as you do for your health care?

it seems if you want to divorce the system because it is corrupt, divorce it, do not join the corruption or there is nothing that makes you different than them.

[sbaustin]

in rome, did they not legalize rape, torture, child molestation and feed Christians to the lions?

I sure hope you were just joking considering that walking on the sidewalk like a moron is not unethical, illegal, nor unmoral. I hope you know(just saying because your response is confusing) that the saying isn't meant to be taken in a literal sense.

Anyways, people here when walking just don't pay attention and don't care about other people on the sidewalk.. I think it is about as simple as that. It is the same with arriving on time. Peruvians don't care about other people's time otherwise there wouldn't be an Hora Peruana.

[americorps]

my point was that just because someone else does it, does not mean I have to do it too...admitedly taken to the extreme.

If in rome, I would not live like a roman if it betrayed my morals and values.

In Peru, I will still walk on the right, pass only when room, if I stop, will stand to the side so others can get around and if someone feels they have more right than I to use the same sidewalk, I will tell them to move. Peru, USA, Germany or Istanbul.

[chi chi]

My gf says that most Peruvians are also ´chismoso´.

[americorps]

My gf says that most Peruvians are also ´chismoso´.

off topic.

[curlyguy18]

I get a kick out of expats that complain about things that simply cannot be changed in a country/culture. I'm not saying no one should vent, let off some steam, get something off your chest, whatever you wanna call it, but at the end of the day, you won't be able to change the way the population in a country behaves.

When I was in the US some people had a less than pleasant attitude and it got on my nerves. Yes, I b*tched about it and that did nothing but exacerbate the issue. When I lived in London it irked me that people got stupidly aggressive when they were drunk and all that binge-drinking was also not very nice in my opinion. And yes, I complained and ranted about it which is only a human thing to do. Later I realised that complaining TOO MUCH was pointless and not very healthy.

Am I going to be able to change the attitude some Americans have? Am I gonna be able to make the Brits drink less? As a Peruvian, am I gonna be able to make bus drivers drive more carefully? I'm afraid the answer is no, as much as I wish it were yes. I think we should accept things the way they are and try to make life a bit easier and not a bit more difficult.

Just my opinion

[americorps]

curlyguy, it sound to me like perhaps you have a different viewpoint of venting.

I do not expect to change Peru, but on some values, neither will I let Peru change me.

I vent to release, not because I want to have control over the situation or make things change.

If I complained AND expected things to change, then I would hold the frustration as you described in the West

However, I vent to release, and I feel better when I do.

[curlyguy18]

And as I said, venting in order to release and feel better is a human thing and there's nothing wrong about it. Taking it to extremes would be a problem

[captsirl]

I hope they don't change
Be late.
Make up excuses like a 10 year old.
Don't do what is expected of you .
It gives me the upper hand to get employed or anything else first.

[falconagain]

And as I said, venting in order to release and feel better is a human thing and there's nothing wrong about it. Taking it to extremes would be a problem

There is a minimum of requirements for all civilized people, If I am Peruvian and I go to a
restaurant that is empty with some friends and we start reading the newspaper. It is not
polite for other bunch of people to sit right behind us to gossip on what we read. There
is other 50 tables empty and the place that we chose has nothing special. Personal space
should be respected, any nationality will either sit at least 3 tables away from you or at
the other side of the restaurant but many Peruvians will insist on disrupting the free time
of civilized people by sitting right behind to find out what other people is reading. In
Chile you can even complain to the police and they will get a night in jail for that kind of
behavior.

[chi chi]

There is a minimum of requirements for all civilized people, If I am Peruvian and I go to a restaurant that is empty with some friends and we start reading the newspaper. It is not
polite for other bunch of people to sit right behind us to gossip on what we read. There
is other 50 tables empty and the place that we chose has nothing special. Personal space
should be respected, any nationality will either sit at least 3 tables away from you or at
the other side of the restaurant but many Peruvians will insist on disrupting the free time
of civilized people by sitting right behind to find out what other people is reading.

You can also invited the other group of people to join your table.

Last year, I went alone to Lima for 2 days to buy things for my home in Tarapoto at Sodimac and to get some documents from the embassy.

In the evening I went to a chifa in Surco. I entered alone and there was a group of about 20 aussies sitting at a table. When I went to sit down at a table alone, they probably felt bad for me sitting alone so they invited me to join their table. ´That was spiffy, mate´.

[renodante]

There
is other 50 tables empty and the place that we chose has nothing special

The Magnet Phenomenon.

That's another one that doesn't bother me much anymore, but relates to getting walked into on the street. But I'll do it as an experiment sometimes, i'll be walking, or standing, in a place with a ridiculously large amount of space. And I'll say to myself "watch, this guy will choose to stand practically on top of you instead of a good distance away while waiting for this elevator (or passing on the street, or waiting on line, etc etc), and more often than not, BAAM next thing i know i can count his nose hairs. Doesn't upset me, just confuses the hell out of me. I pointed out to my ex, a peruvian, who of course never really noticed it, but after i pointed it out she would laugh about it all the time. we went to this huge DJ event once in Monumental and got sick of how packed it was, so we purposely went all the way to the very back to dance, where there was no one anywhere. before long, people were bumping into us on their way to the bathroom, or the back door, or what have you, when there was literally a 15 meter circle of free space around us both. When in doubt, opt to move directly towards someone, I'll never understand it. maybe in latino culture close quarters is the norm? because if i recall correctly even when i was in Italy people would get real close to you all the time, even when they didn't have to.

and curlyguy, i have no illusions about changing any of it. much of it i don't care about really, bitching is a hobby for me in a way and quirky cultural things interest me in general.