they walk like they drive

Answers to your qestions about moving to, and living in, Peru,
douglas8
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby douglas8 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:34 pm

someone should have started a thread called "hey gringo"....

actually americorps i have to respectfully disagree...i know as i am sure you all do that the term gringo can be used as an out and out pejorative...and i personally would like all peruvians brazillians argetnitains etc to stop using it..it's a label with negative connotations..it is NOT to impress our cultural values but it is part of the interchange intercambio of travelling...you pick up things of the culture you are in and you impart some points of view different than their own..like calling someone a gringo isnt cool.(slightly dehumanizing at times no?)...and if it so wonderful to use the term as some have pointed out how come my girlfriend's family(peruvian) would never think to use the word as for them it is a bad word.

as has been pointed gringo is NEVER used in formal occasions because all and sundry know it has very negative connotations and to dispute that is quite silly..

btw i have been in countries where i was called bule gaijin mazunga auschlander and more...all can and are used as pejoratives peru with gringo is no exception.


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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby goingnowherefast » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:44 pm

Kelly, your article was speculation and provided nothing further than "well it could mean foreigner, it could be from a song, it could mean griego, it could mean green-go..." - it wasn't factual. You guys try to obscure the meaning of the word beyond recognition. While it's origins aren't known, it's public record that it's an offensive term. Go call some white people a gringo on the streets in the States and let me know how it works out.

Without getting into a discussion on Peru vs Mexico, it wouldn't be hard to argue how similar they are, same race, same language, etc etc. More similarities than differences. They both know the meaning of the word...

By using your logic, it would be ok for me to call an African American the N word if we were in England. Or call a Vietnamese charlie if we were in Australia, etc etc. Geographical location doesn't change the meaning of a word and I don't know why you think it does.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby Arroz con Pollo » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:07 pm

laura diestra wrote:excuse me we may be forigners but the word gringo is offensive and i tell people so if they do not like it tough but they need to be taught manners i would never direspect anyone here so do not to it to me.


Hi Chi Chi / Euroman / Conquistador / Muslim Woman looking for female roommates. 3 total posts and all troll bait. Nice work, looks like 3rd time was a charm.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby americorps » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:58 pm

From: Terreros y Pando's Diccionario castellano con las voces de Ciencias y Artes y sus correspondientes en las 3 lenguas francesa, latina e italiana in 1786

Gringos llaman en Málaga a los extranjeros que tienen cierta especie de acento, que los priva de una locución fácil y natural Castellana; y en Madrid dan el mismo nombre con particularidad a los irlandndeses


Your steadfast believe that this phrase was born in the Americas, that is born of negativity is flatly not true.

To say Peruvian and Mexican culture is virtually the same, as a Mexican American who has lived in both Mexico and in Peru I can only say my experience is 180 degrees away from your opinion.
goingnowherefast

Re: they walk like they drive

Postby goingnowherefast » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:27 pm

Post the rest of the article dude, the parts that talk about the song and mention the war and other speculations.

Your steadfast believe that this phrase was born in the Americas, that is born of negativity is flatly not true.


I said the origin was unknown. Besides, my speculation is as good as your speculation.

To say Peruvian and Mexican culture is virtually the same


Once again, I didn't say that. I've lived in Mexico and Peru too, and I can think of a lot other nationalities a lot more different than the Mexicans then the Peruvians.

Gringo is an offensive term, tens of millions will agree with me, and that's that.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby amigorick » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:38 pm

Well, our topic has definitely morphed from "They walk like they drive". At least we can all agree with that ! :D

But from my prospective, in the US and in other Latin countries that I've visited, the word "gringo" can be used both as a way to distinguish a person from a group of locals but can also be used negatively (like most any other word spoken). I think that Kelly is spot on with her comment below:

Kelly wrote:And there are people who will use "gringo" in an insulting manner, just like there are some that will use "cholo" or "gordo" or "zambo" or a million other descriptive words here as an insult. But they also use those same word as terms of affection. In Peru, those terms themselves aren't inherently insulting, it all depends on who's using it and how they use it. My husband calls me "gringuita" all the time, and I don't see anything insulting about it - but when his ex calls me "ese maldita gringa", yeah, she means it as an insult.


I remember that with my first experieniences with Latino culture, I thought - how terrible that they call this person gordito, flacito, panzón, another that I've forgotten- but a person with a chronic limp. It took me a while to open my mind to it not being negative but understand that they are simply using nicknames without malice.

We just need to open our minds to how things work in other cultures and not be so paranoid.

Just my 2 céntimos...
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby Kelly » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:23 pm

goingnowherefast wrote:Kelly, your article was speculation and provided nothing further than "well it could mean foreigner, it could be from a song, it could mean griego, it could mean green-go..." - .


That's not what the article said at all.

What it said was that many people believe those things to be true (the song, "green coat" etc) but that they aren't because the term was in use in Spain 3/4s of a century before those the Mexican American war, when those situations supposedly arose.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby falconagain » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:50 pm

Well actually the usage of the word gringo and its meaning depends upon the
context at that moment. It is like the word Cholo in Peruvian. It can be used
as a flattering term in a reunion, El es cholo y esta orgulloso de ello.
(He is an Indian and proud of it). Or as the worst insult ever without
adding any words. Oye Cholo vuelve a la montana a donde perteneces.
(Hey you low life scum, go back to the dump where you came from),
that is how a person from the highlands will take those words and those
are the intentions of who said such words.

Still sometimes the context gets even more confusing and the reactions from
a foreigner are even more puzzling. One time I was invated to a wedding, the
sisters of a friend of mine were getting married to some canadian professors.
At the end of the wedding there was a drinking beer competition between the
professors and the family members of their wives. After each cup, the family
member drinking said the word gringo followed by a derogatory term (this lasted
for hours, so I was able to hear most of the insults). It was already breakfast
when most of the people left and I started talking to the professors to ask
them if they understood what transpired last night. Their answer is the
following:

"We actually learned Spanish when we were on high school in Madrid years ago,
our fantasy was always to marry women of the amazonian jungle and also make
some studies about the people that lived within the amazon river. We agreed
with our wives not to tell their family about our knowledge of Spanish in order
to make our studies as impartial and factual as possible, and also learn who really
were our new relatives."


The most common derogatory word was "gringo sonso" (retarded / stupid white)
but I believe that the sonsos were others.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby americorps » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:26 pm

goingnowherefast wrote:Post the rest of the article dude, the parts that talk about the song and mention the war and other speculations.

Your steadfast believe that this phrase was born in the Americas, that is born of negativity is flatly not true.


I said the origin was unknown. Besides, my speculation is as good as your speculation.

To say Peruvian and Mexican culture is virtually the same


Once again, I didn't say that. I've lived in Mexico and Peru too, and I can think of a lot other nationalities a lot more different than the Mexicans then the Peruvians.

Gringo is an offensive term, tens of millions will agree with me, and that's that.


and therein lies the failure of your argument.

Tens of millions, a figure to completely made up anyway, but you fail to mention how many Peruvians.

What people feel in other countries is NOT at all relevant to Peru. It is what is meant and felt within Peru and besides a few hypersensitive fellow gringos, most here think you are dead wrong.
goingnowherefast

Re: they walk like they drive

Postby goingnowherefast » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:07 pm

as a Mexican American who has lived in both Mexico and in Peru


Americorps, you probably don't get offended by the word because you're Mexican. For those of us who aren't Mexican and/or Latino - it is offensive. Here's what wikipedia has to say:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gringo

Code: Select all

in English the word is often considered offensive or disparaging.


If you want to further perpetuate a culture of ignorance, go ahead, call us gringos here, teach your children to shout gringo at foreigners in the streets and then you can talk about how dangerous ice cream is and go aimlessly walk into walls with your free time. Let us know how that works out for you.

P.S - The nationality "Mexican/American" doesn't exist, you know that, the US govt rightfully says LOL at dual citizenship w/Mexico : )
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby douglas8 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:39 pm

sorry but you are way off the mark on this one....not liking to be called gringo is not being hyper sensitive...nor is it even being sensitive..it's just being human and not wanting to be branded some offensive label..if you like it that's your thing..many do not.

to end the debate gringo comes from griego..as in "it's all greek to me"..if you don't understand someone it's greek..foreigners don't speak spanish well so it's greek to the spainards..thus griegos eventually became gringos over time..this is substantiated fact...the myth about the war with texas and mexico and green go has zero proof and as pointed out occured nearly a century later...so which are you gonna believe?

well i guess the silly myth is more attractive as it makes for a better story..
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby chi chi » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:56 pm

douglas8 wrote:someone should have started a thread called "hey gringo"....

and i personally would like all peruvians brazillians argetnitains etc to stop using it...


I've been to Brasil, Argentina and Chile and never heard anyone saying gringo. Most people in Brasil, Argentina and Chile look European anyway. When I was in those countries I felt like I was walking around in Europe when I looked at the people.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby chi chi » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:00 am

douglas8 wrote:someone should have started a thread called "hey gringo"....


Or maybe better, here in the Philippines they yell at foreigners: HEY, JOE.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby tomsax » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:53 am

All this run around and around the word gringo started when chi chi talked about "gringos" walking too fast. I still don't know if he was actually using the term to mean Americans or foreigners or even if the question arose in his own head about what he might be referring to when he wrote it. I then questioned why he was refering to others as "gringos" when in Peru the term generally is used for foreigners and he is one.

So then somebody (ages later) decided they are scandalised by the idea that anyone should be called gringo.

The we go round and round and round, including with chi chi apparently contradicting his understanding of the term in his first post.

The moral I take from this is: why take issue with chi chi's posts because he didn't understand what he was writing in the first place?
Last edited by tomsax on Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby americorps » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:17 am

goingnowherefast wrote:
as a Mexican American who has lived in both Mexico and in Peru


Americorps, you probably don't get offended by the word because you're Mexican. For those of us who aren't Mexican and/or Latino - it is offensive. Here's what wikipedia has to say:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gringo

Code: Select all

in English the word is often considered offensive or disparaging.


If you want to further perpetuate a culture of ignorance, go ahead, call us gringos here, teach your children to shout gringo at foreigners in the streets and then you can talk about how dangerous ice cream is and go aimlessly walk into walls with your free time. Let us know how that works out for you.

P.S - The nationality "Mexican/American" doesn't exist, you know that, the US govt rightfully says LOL at dual citizenship w/Mexico : )


your comments are absolutely false and show that you have not even bothered to pay attention to what I said. That makes you a very difficult person to converse with when you just pick and choose certain things to listen and respond to and completely and totally ignore others.

your intense desire to think that only your point of view is the only legitimate point of view is part of your failures of your arguments. You are presuming that your cultural perspective is universal. That sort of horse blinder leaves you unwilling or unable to see anything not within your normal line of sight. I will teach my children not to be so narrow and closed minded, thank you very much.

You continue to dismiss that this is a forum about Peru and we are talking about the Peruvian cultural perspective and you just pretend it does not exist makes your point of view one I can not respect as it does not respect this country.

In Peru, it is by and large not a word with used as a negative, though I did say in some cases it can be. I have also said very specifically in Mexico it is a negative word. I respect that I am in Peru and not Mexico nor the USA so I have the respect for Peru to reflect Peruvian culture and do not hold them to Mexican or USA standards out of respect.

You are free to choose not to do that, but presenting a Mexican or USA definition and telling the Peruvians that is what they mean when in full reality it is NOT what they mean is not reflective of reality, in my opinion.

And Mexican American is a cultural reference and not a scientific turn. Perhaps before you start talking about educating my children, you should consider better educating yourself.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby Kelly » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:55 pm

I think that it's important to recognize also that people have a right to feel offended when someone calls them "gringo" - even if it's not meant in that way. if you've been living for years being called a name in an offensive way, it's still going to evoke that response in you even if the way that it's used was not meant in a derogatory manner.

I recently read a blog post from an English woman who lives in the US - one thing that was difficult for her to get used to in American English was our habit of calling people "he" or "she" even if they're standing right there - apparently in England this is considered quite rude. It has taken her a while to not feel offended by it when it happens, even though she understands that it's not considered rude in the US.


Anyway - this is a great conversation but please I want to remind everyone we can have it without insulting or passive aggressive, personal comments against other people.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby micatjl » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:33 pm

goingnowherefast wrote:By using your logic, it would be ok for me to call an African American the N word if we were in England. Or call a Vietnamese charlie if we were in Australia, etc etc. Geographical location doesn't change the meaning of a word and I don't know why you think it does.



I have to disagree with this. In America calling a girl a C**t is the most offensive term possible, but in New Zealand and many other countries it is used in a much different way and used for men and women.....eg ''he's a good c**t '' is a compliment. The word can be turned negative depending on the adjective preceeding it or the context. But If you said anything like that in any context in the states youd be asking for trouble.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby richiecry » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:44 pm

I have to say I like this thread. I also have to say that as a Canadian having travelled to Peru approximately 25 times over the last 13 years (and moving there towards the end of next year)....I cannot ever recall being called Gringo. I must admit.....grudgingly....that I was probably somewhat inebbriated during a lot of that time...but i seriously do not recall it. I will say however.....that what DID annoy me....was being called AMERICANO. I really do not know why....especially since I have worked about 13 years of my 41 years in the USA (recently returned to Canada)...but it did. I think though....that in some ways it is meaninless to talk about the word....because ANY word can interpreted in ANY way by the person hearing the word. I do tend to agree though with what some of the posters here are saying...and that is that most Peruvians when they are using the term GRINGO...are probably not using it in a mean-spirited way. I have noticed with the Peruvian culture (as someone else mentioned) that Peruvians tend to pick one thing about you....and call you that. My friends in Peru called me Rubio a lot because of my hair (which I would actually call light brown...and this one friend of mine Carlos was always called Gordo)....these are simplistic terms used to describe non simplistic people. This to me is strange...almost childlike...but seems to exist at every age.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby Icachico » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:28 pm

The word yank or yankee when referring to an American comes to mind.
When a European calls me a yank, technically they're correct.
However, I'm from the American South ie the southern
states so if you know anything about the American Civil War, it wouldn't be the most correct word to use
in my case.
I'd prefer to be called an American not a yankee.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby captsirl » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:11 pm

LOL
I am a Florida CRACKER
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby chi chi » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:13 pm

tomsax wrote:All this run around and around the word gringo started when chi chi talked about "gringos" walking too fast. I still don't know if he was actually using the term to mean Americans or foreigners or even if the question arose in his own head about what he might be referring to when he wrote it. I then questioned why he was refering to others as "gringos" when in Peru the term generally is used for foreigners and he is one.


I am 100% gringo and I am proud of it.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby Icachico » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:17 pm

captsirl wrote:LOL
I am a Florida CRACKER


LOL!
Yep, that'll work too.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby Kelly » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:04 pm

That's actually another good example - depending on it's use, cracker (either the Florida or Georgia variety) can be worn as a badge of pride. On the other hand, used the wrong way, "them thar's fighting words!"
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby falconagain » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:18 pm

In regards to the cracker word. One time in Lima I was working in an office
that was full of Americans, our lunch was about to arrive but I decided to
eat later and asked for cookies to the girl at the restaurant. When the
girl arrived I simply screamed: "Give me my cream crackers now" and
everybody in the room started laughing. Why they were laughing, I never
understood the joke.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby renodante » Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:37 am

it takes a hell of a lot to offend me. you're offended by being called gringo no matter what the tone? grow thicker skin.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby captsirl » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:37 am

renodante wrote:it takes a hell of a lot to offend me. you're offended by being called gringo no matter what the tone? grow thicker skin.



That's what I'm thinking here.
How can some one be rough enough and tough enough to survive here or anywhere in Latin America and care what the heck their called.
goingnowherefast

Re: they walk like they drive

Postby goingnowherefast » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:27 am

Hah, well I wouldn't say you need to be rough and tough to live in Lima, it's not Baghdad. It's really a matter of principal and that I wouldn't want my kids living in a world where people are going to casually refer to them as gringo. As I said initially in this thread, it's irritating but I shrug it off.

With that being said, if some essay calls me gringo in the States, well then everything is fair after that 8)

Icachico - I hear ya, I hate being called a yank too. It'd be nice if they could call us confederates : P
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby douglas8 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:03 pm

hmm getting kind circular this thread but interesting..

to those who take the position of "i don't mind being called gringo toughen up" is saying you don't care about it so the rest of us should be exactly like you and also not care about....ummm yeah ok...maybe we should also be exactly like the peruvians and return home and start calling everyone we know fatty skinny chinese eyes blackie etc....that will go over great no? i think who ever does that will find themselves picking up their teeth off the ground with a broken arm...why? cuz its all offensive and totally dehumanizing...basta.

and now this thread is offically become some radio call in show..
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby Retired in Lima » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:53 pm

I have white hair but still enjoy people referring to me and other Gringo's as "Blondies"!
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby Icachico » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:44 pm

[quote="goingnowherefast"]Hah, well I wouldn't say you need to be rough and tough to live in Lima, it's not Baghdad. It's really a matter of principal and that I wouldn't want my kids living in a world where people are going to casually refer to them as gringo. As I said initially in this thread, it's irritating but I shrug it off.

With that being said, if some essay calls me gringo in the States, well then everything is fair after that 8)

Icachico - I hear ya, I hate being called a yank too. It'd be nice if they could call us confederates : P[/kquote]


Speaking of confederates, Confederate Memorial Day is still celebrated by several southern states in April.
My mother used to work for the state of Alabama & she & her co-workers would get off for that day instead of the
federal Memorial Day in May.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby chi chi » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:39 pm

captsirl wrote:
renodante wrote:it takes a hell of a lot to offend me. you're offended by being called gringo no matter what the tone? grow thicker skin.



That's what I'm thinking here.
How can some one be rough enough and tough enough to survive here or anywhere in Latin America and care what the heck their called.


For a few lucas, you can buy good earplugs Sodimac.
goingnowherefast

Re: they walk like they drive

Postby goingnowherefast » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:05 pm

All things said and done, Peru is still an awesome place with awesome people, even if they do call us gringos and walk into us 8)
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby captsirl » Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:23 pm

goingnowherefast wrote:All things said and done, Peru is still an awesome place with awesome people, even if they do call us gringos and walk into us 8)


THANK YOU
THE END
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby Aquarius123 » Tue May 01, 2012 8:17 pm

Hi!

I think it is not nice to push or hit people on streets just because they are at your side. I think the best think you can do is to tell them "vaya por la derecha, por favor", so people won´t feel attack and I am completely sure that most of them will understand and walk properly.

In my opinion we use the word "gringo" to avoid using the large word "Estadounidense". I think you should take it easy and don´t feel offended because that is not our intention. If you don´t like being called "gringo" just tell people around you that you don´t like it or feel offended. I think communication is always the key word.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby renodante » Wed May 02, 2012 9:33 am

douglas8 wrote:hmm getting kind circular this thread but interesting..

to those who take the position of "i don't mind being called gringo toughen up" is saying you don't care about it so the rest of us should be exactly like you and also not care about....ummm yeah ok...maybe we should also be exactly like the peruvians and return home and start calling everyone we know fatty skinny chinese eyes blackie etc....that will go over great no? i think who ever does that will find themselves picking up their teeth off the ground with a broken arm...why? cuz its all offensive and totally dehumanizing...basta.

and now this thread is offically become some radio call in show..


the point you're missing is that peruvians use it as a term of endearment at times, depending on their tone.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby douglas8 » Wed May 02, 2012 10:36 am

yeahhhh no i havent missed that point buddy...you obviously missed mine but after reading various posts of yours i wouldnt have expect you to have got it.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby americorps » Wed May 02, 2012 12:53 pm

I understand your point perfectly. You wish to hold Peruvians to a cultural standard of a different culture than their own...within their own country nonetheless.
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby renodante » Wed May 02, 2012 2:57 pm

douglas8 wrote:yeahhhh no i havent missed that point buddy...you obviously missed mine but after reading various posts of yours i wouldnt have expect you to have got it.


You've convinced me. I'm going to start getting irate when close friends i've had for years here call me gringo in a lighthearted way and demand they take it back. YEAH!
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Re: they walk like they drive

Postby Kelly » Wed May 02, 2012 6:30 pm

What was an interesting thread has turned into a merry-go-round of comments, so I'm going to go ahead and close it down.

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