Asked for "Propina" to get CE - what can I do about it?

[itsallgood]

Hi everyone. I am living in Cusco and I applied for my CE (through marriage) Jan 2012, in Lima. Things appeared to be moving well and then completely stalled. Immigration kept saying the papers "are upstairs waiting for approval" but nothing else was happening like updates to the website where you check the status of your application and over one month ago we were told the police visit to our home (to confirm marriage) was the problem but now we find out the police have not been sent anything yet from immigration. We have a good friend visiting immigration once a week relaying all the B******T excuses and his latest update is that it was suggested to him that a propina would greatly speed up the process. This is after he showed up today with a formal complaint letter.

I don't want to participate in the corruption here so I need your opinions and advice. Maybe there is nothing I can do but pay but I am hoping there is some course of action I can take to avoid being involved in the corruption. If I buck the system now, am I asking for problems later on? Proving that it was suggested a propina would speed things up is impossible, so ...


Any advice/ideas?

Thanks in advance!

[amigorick]

Hi everyone. I am living in Cusco and I applied for my CE (through marriage) Jan 2012, in Lima. Things appeared to be moving well and then completely stalled. Immigration kept saying the papers "are upstairs waiting for approval" but nothing else was happening like updates to the website where you check the status of your application and over one month ago we were told the police visit to our home (to confirm marriage) was the problem but now we find out the police have not been sent anything yet from immigration. We have a good friend visiting immigration once a week relaying all the B******T excuses and his latest update is that it was suggested to him that a propina would greatly speed up the process. This is after he showed up today with a formal complaint letter.

I don't want to participate in the corruption here so I need your opinions and advice. Maybe there is nothing I can do but pay but I am hoping there is some course of action I can take to avoid being involved in the corruption. If I buck the system now, am I asking for problems later on? Proving that it was suggested a propina would speed things up is impossible, so ...


Any advice/ideas?

Thanks in advance!

Hi itsallgood -

Unfornunatly my experience with the legal system here in Iquitos is that there is always a bottleneck where papers stop moving and the only way to get them moving again is through the propina system. I understand your not wanting to support/reinforce the system, but it's been my experience that this is the way things work. If you buck the system you could have even bigger problems later.

For example, I bought property here in Iquitos while living in the US. I had went to the Peruvian Consulate to draw up power of attorney papers for a local to make the purchase and had the required business visas stamps in my passport at the time of purchase. The powers that be in Iquitos wanted extra money to certify the title as "my papers weren't in order". I explained the situation to the Consul General in the US and he wrote a letter to the office in Iquitos that wanted the extra fees that if he did not stop trying to exhort money from me he would have him canned. That took care of the problem. Pretty everything else that I've needed to do here has required the propina to keep me and my Peruvian business partners legal papers moving.

It's unfornunate, but in my experience its a reality that we have to live with here. I don't have experience working in Lima with legal papers but suspect that the same occurs.

[sunflower]

You are really waiting for a long time for your carné. Something is definitely wrong. Personally I wouldn't pay anything to anyone. You pay once, you will pay always and there is no guarantee the existing problem disappears. You need to find out where the problem is and why your application isn't processed. I never heard that police is paying you a visit to confirm your marriage. I applied for my carné through marriage 6 years ago and probably procedures changed. There might be other reasons why nothing happens. Are you sure you gave them all documents they wanted with the right stamps on it, paid all fees? Are there problems with your Interpol check? Try to see someone superior, file a complaint. Don't pay! For what? If you are legally married to a Peruvian it is your right to receive your residence visa through marriage. In case you need more professional help, please let me know. We had a similar problem and I can highly recommend a very good and trustworthy lawyer and tramitador.

[Lloyd007]

Once your paperwork is in, they give you a A4 sized paper back with a code on it so you can check online for the updates of your status.

You have to go here: http://www.digemin.gob.pe/plataforma/pl ... mites.html

And click on the last box which says ''consulta estado de tramite'' and you put the details in that are on the A4 paper you should have been given once your paperwork is in at Migraciones (that is, if your paperwork really has been submitted correctly and there's nothing missing?). Once it says ''approved'' then you go and collect your CE.

You are much better off doing these things yourself and not relying on others.

[itsallgood]

All papers were submitted by ourselves in Lima and all required payments made by us. Everything checks out on the website as being in order. Our friend is only visiting immigration for us to relay any issues they mau have and they are not informing him of any issues, just bull excuses why it's taking so long.

Once your paperwork is in, they give you a A4 sized paper back with a code on it so you can check online for the updates of your status.

You have to go here: http://www.digemin.gob.pe/plataforma/pl ... mites.html

And click on the last box which says ''consulta estado de tramite'' and you put the details in that are on the A4 paper you should have been given once your paperwork is in at Migraciones (that is, if your friend really has submitted your papers). Once it says ''approved'' then you go and collect your CE.

You are much better off doing these things yourself and not relying on others.

[Lloyd007]

On the website link, did you get the green APROBADO come through OK?

If so, that's weird then that there is a problem. Sometimes, you just have to go back and insist and insist and insist with these things until you get an answer. Does your friend have ''carta de poder'' (power of attorney) to act on your behalf?

[chi chi]

We have a good friend visiting immigration once a week relaying all the B******T excuses and his latest update is that it was suggested to him that a propina would greatly speed up the process.

How good can you trust your friend? Maybe, your friend wants a propina from you. It's possible that the paperwork is ready for collection at inmigraciones but your friend told you that they are not.

I suggest you enquire by inmigraciones yourself.

[adrian Thorne]

Sorry my friend there sems to be something amiss here. I have checked this out with the Gobernadora in our area, who is a personal friend and she confirms the requirement is for submission of a current marriage certificate ( issued within the last three months and stamped by Reniec) There are no police visits.

[koplinfamilia]

A few months back my father was asked for a propina to get his Rentista visa through, we never responded and after a few weeks everything went through on it's own.

About a year ago I received my CE for a marriage here and there were no police visits or any questions for that matter. I wouldn't pay them un centavo.

[goingnowherefast]

I was at the state dept passport agency (or whatever they call themselves now) a few months ago to get a new passport. They said it could take weeks to go through since everything comes from DC, and told me that if I give them a propina it would go through in a few days. I gave them the propina and I got it 4 days later.

Instead of a 'propina' they call it 'being expedited' : P

[falconagain]

I was at the digemin to get my birth certificate. They requested their propina. I said no.
Six months later I got my birth certificate. Still I have no regrets.

[renodante]

so how much of a propina are they looking for in these cases? what's the minimum to get it moving?

[chi chi]

so how much of a propina are they looking for in these cases? what's the minimum to get it moving?

I guess the same as the police.

20 soles is their standard 'contribution'.

[agantuk]

when i got my marital CE two years back, there was supposed to be a police verification by home visit. a police officer was supposed to come to the house where i was living at that time. to speed up the process, we had offered to pick the officer up from another inspection nearby, but in the end the officer just noted down the details sitting at her desk at DIGEMIN. it did take time for her report to be OK'd by the higher-ups. the whole process took 3 months.

[kjcure]

I feel your pain. We had a small hurdle (in retrospect) with my CE application but when we insisted in speaking to a supervisor and explained what was happening, the disconnect was overcome easily. It is also absolutely true that Provincial paperwork is delayed compared to Lima, but your process seems to be exaggerated. One of the best pieces of advice I have read so far is to insist in talking to someone or just wait it out. My process took 2 months to complete 2.5 years ago but we also live in Lima (no police visit). The longest part was the interpol report. Now having just spoken to the folks at Naturalizations (getting my Peruvian citizenship) this week, they did tell me about big delays in CE processing due to interpol and general workload increase. Specifically they said that October 2011 and later CE "expedientes" were still waiting for final approval. Maybe, you're in that situation. Somethings they just won't tell you unless you ask. I would call as many times as it took to track down your Expediente. And if you plan on staying here a good while, think about naturalization after 2 years, makes life so much easier paperwork wise.

[curlyguy18]

Propinas are different from expedite fees. If this is not a legal expedite fee, then I would not pay a single cent and I would also try talking to someone superior to file a complaint. The whole process might be long and tedious but that's no excuse for asking for bribes.

[itsallgood]

Thanks for all the responses!

As much as it killed me to do it, I sent the "propina". We simply couldn't leave Cusco and I wanted my CE before leaving on vacation. The day after thay got it, they said it was ready but the idiots did the wrong one. Name was close but that is no good!

Still don't have my CE. Visited immigration in Cusco and they gave us several phone numbers but in many many attempts, no one ever answers.
Our friend at one point came back and told us they were waiting for an answer from the municipality in Pisac where we were married so we went there to discover that the lady actually responded to immigration twice and showed us the reciepts from surpost. We sent her reponse and the reciept copies to Lima and that solved that problem.

Next they said they were waiting for the police visit/report. They said they sent it to the police in San Jeronimo even though we live in San Tiago district, so off we go. San Jeronimo have no record of the imigration request which all get logged in a book. Our friend sent us the required papers and off we went to the San Tiago commisary. We eventually convinced the officer to do it right away . Also had to bring him to the house ourseleves. We sent the report to our friend and he took them to immigration.

Now they say that everything is ready and we have to go to Lima for pictures and signatures. Even this sounds odd as they took pictures as part of the interpol process. I would have thought that part at least could be done here in Cusco. Maybe they want more money. After my vacation I will go to immigration in Lima with recorder in my pocket.

I also discovered that immigration has my old passport on record while my CE is being processed under the new passport. This should be interesting. I found this out when I did the process to get permission to leave Peru for my vacation.

I am discovering that corruption and incompetence are plentiful here.

[sunflower]

What a story! Sounds a little bit what happened to us when we tried for over 4 years to registered our marriage and children at Reniec. But in the end we won last year in November

Now they say that everything is ready and we have to go to Lima for pictures and signatures. Even this sounds odd as they took pictures as part of the interpol process.

Interpol and DIGEMIN have nothing to do with each other. And I can confirm that you have to go there so you personally can sign and have digital pictures taken. But just an hour or so later you finally get your carné. So you are nearly there ....

[curlyguy18]

I am discovering that corruption and incompetence are plentiful here.

When it comes to paperwork, yes. Expect lots of it.