Ugly Americans

Answers to your qestions about moving to, and living in, Peru,
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Ugly Americans

Postby PeruFan » Mon May 21, 2012 4:45 pm

OK Kelly, please excuse me if this is re-opening a can of worms. Feel free to delete this if it causes to much nastiness!

I wanted to comment on some recent posts on here. I have lived in Peru for the last 10 years. I am a red-blooded American from the deep south! I have grown to have a real love for Peru and her people and still have a lot of pride for my American heritage. I am proud to be an American. However, after arriving in Peru, it didn't take long for me to see how ugly some (emphasis on SOME) Americans can be. Perhaps it is misplaced pride, perhaps its all out arrogance, but some of us can be so very ugly. In our attempt to promote American values and goals we sometimes (emphasis on sometimes) trample on the societies we visit. We have learned to love BOTH countries and see GREAT blessings in both lands. When we are in the US for a visit, we find ourselves missing certain aspects of Peruvian life and culture. When we are in Peru we miss being home in the states. We feel so blessed to have a chance to be in both countries.

I find that almost all Peruvians like Americans. I find that most Americans think Peru is a really great place. Too bad we can't combine the best of both and have a really wonderful country. Both countires have a lot to be proud of.

It has just been shocking at times to see how Ugly americans can be. Yet, I think almost everyone at expatperu here has a great opinion of Peru and her people. Thanks Kelly, and gang, for giving us a place to chat, vent, discuss the good and the bad of Peru.


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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby Jimmy111 » Mon May 21, 2012 5:00 pm

Well. Americans are ugly. They want to get in everyones business and then call it their own. It is pretty much what all the Free trade deals are for. They surely dont benifet the US economy but they do loads for control. But Peruvians are much the same too. It just hasent spread out to the streets yet. If you have any relatives you will know what I mean. They are ALWAYS trying to tell you what they think you should do. And then most of the time doing the opposite of what they said.
Anyhow. You got to take everyone and everything at face value.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby rama0929 » Mon May 21, 2012 5:45 pm

You people are ugly... I'm a handsome devil, if I may say so myself... 8)
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby Kelly » Mon May 21, 2012 7:23 pm

Jimmy111 wrote:They are ALWAYS trying to tell you what they think you should do.


These are the kind of comments that cause problems in threads like this (along with ad hominem personal attacks).

"They" - putting "them" against "us" (whoever they and us are)
"always" - exaggerated generalizations.

I love threads like this (and the other one that was closed) because it can help people learn more about each other, culturally. But it's got to be done with a modicum of respect for each other, or there's no point in even trying.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby rama0929 » Mon May 21, 2012 7:46 pm

Kelly wrote:I love threads like this (and the other one that was closed) because it can help people learn more about each other, culturally.


Agreed. Matter of fact, I learned something new about myself today, that I'm Anglo 8) :P
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby rideout » Mon May 21, 2012 9:40 pm

Really? Can we at least define "ugly" ... if it is what the policy of the US government is as in
Jimmy111 wrote:It is pretty much what all the Free trade deals are for. They surely don't benifet[sic] the US economy but they do loads for control.
then, I think you will find many US citizens in opposition. Let's face it, the government in the US is (as in many countries, including Peru) completely out of control (and the common people have very little representation) but please ... don't blame the many for the actions of just a few.

Now, back in Peru.... I am sorry...I don't like or enjoy getting bumped into. Now we are not talking bumping into on a crowded street...we are talking 50 feet of empty space on either side of me and yet he/she aims to walk right into me ..... I tried to like it but just couldn't (in reference to the other thread) ... surprisingly, my wife who is Peruvian doesn't like it either! I tried to tell her that she should because that is what Canelita said while writing from the US; "it is your culture" I claimed, "it is your culture". I implored her "it is apparently a good way to meet people" and, after some arguing, I seemed to convince her to try it out tomorrow. Personally, I thought a nice "hello or hola!" was equally effective but, afterall, I'm just a stupid, ugly American I guess! Anyway, we will see what happens! :wink:
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby douglas8 » Mon May 21, 2012 10:11 pm

hmm i suggest a new discussion be opened called gringo de mierda and within it all the ranting and name calling is allowed(give it a warning tag like "abandon hope all ye who enter")...a kind of virtual cage match/UFC thing...might let some people get out of their system the pent up hate and vitriol etc and allow for some more interesting discussions here...and those easily offended can of course choose TO (or not) visit said forum.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby Canelita » Mon May 21, 2012 10:47 pm

douglas8 wrote:hmm i suggest a new discussion be opened called gringo de mierda and within it all the ranting and name calling is allowed(give it a warning tag like "abandon hope all ye who enter")...a kind of virtual cage match/UFC thing...might let some people get out of their system the pent up hate and vitriol etc and allow for some more interesting discussions here...and those easily offended can of course choose TO (or not) visit said forum.


Lol. I think that would be extremist. Kelly, teamoperu... and other "gringos" here are very nice people, and actually, I think people like that are very good to Peru. The problem is that the entitled ones are the ones that ruin things for the rest. It's for people like that that I have seen a change in the typical Peruvian hospitality. Many Peruvians have simply stopped being friendly and nice with foreigners just because sadly, some "gringos" don't know their place, and take their rudeness wherever they go. People, as a nice gesture, give them an inch, but they take a mile and even demand more. Thank to them I have seen this change, and people start becoming suspicious of, uncomfortable with gringos in general, and the good gringos end up paying the price of the rotten apples' actions. And according to what I have seen, this is not limited to Peru. It's a worldwide trend.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby douglas8 » Mon May 21, 2012 10:57 pm

canelita you are the official king/queen of the sweeping statements. the crown/corona is yours wear it well!
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby Canelita » Mon May 21, 2012 11:12 pm

rideout wrote:Now, back in Peru.... I am sorry...I don't like or enjoy getting bumped into. Now we are not talking bumping into on a crowded street...we are talking 50 feet of empty space on either side of me and yet he/she aims to walk right into me ..... I tried to like it but just couldn't (in reference to the other thread) ... surprisingly, my wife who is Peruvian doesn't like it either! I tried to tell her that she should because that is what Canelita said while writing from the US; "it is your culture" I claimed, "it is your culture". I implored her "it is apparently a good way to meet people" and, after some arguing, I seemed to convince her to try it out tomorrow. Personally, I thought a nice "hello or hola!" was equally effective but, afterall, I'm just a stupid, ugly American I guess! Anyway, we will see what happens! :wink:



Lol. Did someone say my nickname? Here I am!

It's understandable that you don't like the lack of personal space. After all, you have grown up in a different environment. But you don't have to like it. You have to accept it, because now you are in different country with a different culture. And if you don't feel comfortable doing so, just limit the time you are exposed to situations where you personal space is "compromised." I didn't say people should like it. As a matter of fact, I have grown to like having my personal space here in the states, and probably I won't feel that comfortable when I go back to Peru and people "bump into me." But I'm nobody to change what most of the locals (notice I'm saying "most," your acquaintances/partners might not fit into that) do, and even less because I caught a different custom in a foreign country.

You don't have to take it negatively either.

I find these videos to be kinda helpful:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YFfNJWJ ... re=related
(The last 2 minutes are very interesting...and cover the personal space issue)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKTIVkdC_dI
(A cute Chinese boy talks about his experience regarding personal space and how it differs in China and Singapore)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhhALfB_1Aw
(Woman explaining proxemics)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ3fD_jcMFU
(Same woman talking about proxemics)
Last edited by Canelita on Mon May 21, 2012 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby Canelita » Mon May 21, 2012 11:18 pm

douglas8 wrote:canelita you are the official king/queen of the sweeping statements. the crown/corona is yours wear it well!


Lol. Why are you saying so?
rideout

Re: Ugly Americans

Postby rideout » Mon May 21, 2012 11:49 pm

Canelita wrote:
rideout wrote:Now, back in Peru.... I am sorry...I don't like or enjoy getting bumped into. Now we are not talking bumping into on a crowded street...we are talking 50 feet of empty space on either side of me and yet he/she aims to walk right into me ..... I tried to like it but just couldn't (in reference to the other thread) ... surprisingly, my wife who is Peruvian doesn't like it either! I tried to tell her that she should because that is what Canelita said while writing from the US; "it is your culture" I claimed, "it is your culture". I implored her "it is apparently a good way to meet people" and, after some arguing, I seemed to convince her to try it out tomorrow. Personally, I thought a nice "hello or hola!" was equally effective but, afterall, I'm just a stupid, ugly American I guess! Anyway, we will see what happens! :wink:



Lol. Did someone say my nickname? Here I am!

It's understandable that you don't like the lack of personal space. After all, you have grown up in a different environment. But you don't have to like it. You have to accept it, because now you are in different country with a different culture. And if you don't feel comfortable doing so, just limit the time you are exposed to situations where you personal space is "compromised." I didn't say people should like it. As a matter of fact, I have grown to like having my personal space here in the states, and probably I won't feel that comfortable when I go back to Peru and people "bump into me." But I'm nobody to change what most of the locals (notice I'm saying "most," your acquaintances/partners might not fit into that) do, and even less because I caught a different custom in a foreign country.

You don't have to take it negatively either.

Actually, my wife doesn't like it either and she is Peruvian (only left this country for 2 weeks to Argentina her whole life).
Last edited by rideout on Mon May 21, 2012 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby Canelita » Mon May 21, 2012 11:54 pm

rideout wrote:Actually, my wife doesn't like it either and she is Peruvian (only left this country for 2 weeks to Argentina her whole life)


Your wife might be Peruvian, but she is not the only person living in Peru. She might not like it and can even disagree with me. But all I'm saying is that people need to learn to RESPECT the cultural differences (I'm not talking about the system...you know, corruption, disorder and all that stuff because those things MUST change.) But going back to your wife, so you are telling me that just because your wife is Peruvian and she doesn't enjoy something about the culture, the rest of Peruvians deserve to be disrespected? Well, let me tell you, I know a lot of Americans who don't like a lot of things about their culture, but meeting those few won't make me disrespect the rest. A few people you are close to don't represent all the people you will be surrounded by.

And no, I don't live in Miami. Nice try though.
Last edited by Canelita on Tue May 22, 2012 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby rideout » Tue May 22, 2012 12:09 am

Canelita wrote:
rideout wrote:Actually, my wife doesn't like it either and she is Peruvian (only left this country for 2 weeks to Argentina her whole life)


Your wife might be Peruvian, but she is not the only person living in Peru. She might not like it and can even disagree with me. But all I'm saying is that people need to learn to RESPECT the cultural differences (I'm not talking about the system...you know, corruption, disorder and all that stuff because those things MUST change.) But going back to your wife, so you are telling me that just because your wife is Peruvian and she doesn't enjoy something about the culture, the rest of Peruvians deserve to be disrespected? Well, let me tell you, I know a lot of Americans who don't like a lot of things about their culture, but meeting those few won't make me disrespect the rest. A few people you are close to don't represent all the people you will be surrounded by.

And no, I don't live in Miami. Nice try though.



Well, you obviously have some strange grudge against the US and americans in general ... for whatever reason ... despite the fact that you choose to live there. However, I am sure if I went and asked people if they enjoy getting bumped into, a huge majority would say no. If you have some weird thing with bumping into people as a way to meet men (or women) and you like it, that is fine .... but I can't imagine that is the way a majority of people here like to go about it.

But anyway, thank you for posting about your hatred towards the people of the country YOU moved to.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby Garrilaw » Tue May 22, 2012 12:18 am

Canelita wrote:But anyway, thank you for posting about your hatred towards the people of the country YOU moved to.


..... Just like many yanks are doing on a day to day basis about Peru... rich!

for everyone - if you don't like it; go home... or to Australia.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby Canelita » Tue May 22, 2012 12:29 am

rideout wrote:Well, you obviously have some strange grudge against the US and americans in general ... for whatever reason ... despite the fact that you choose to live there. However, I am sure if I went and asked people if they enjoy getting bumped into, a huge majority would say no. If you have some weird thing with bumping into people as a way to meet men (or women) and you like it, that is fine .... but I can't imagine that is the way a majority of people here like to go about it.

But anyway, thank you for posting about your hatred towards the people of the country YOU moved to.


WHAT? Tell me how in the world asking people to respect the cultural differences, for everyone's good, is having anything against a country or a nationality?? You must be kidding, right! FYI, I'm very happy here, and have a lot of friends. AND, there are a lot of things I like about the USA. In fact, I think taking the good things about Peru and combining them with the good things about the USA, while removing the bad things of both countries would create an awesome nation (that's unrealistic though.) But just as you do, I can't help but notice the cultural differences. The difference is, I observe, learn, and express my views through words, while you feel entitled to impose your point of view on locals, and whenever someone mentions something you don't want to hear, you get over-defensive and feel offended for nothing. Entitled much?

And it seems that you haven't even taken the time to read my posts. I said I have grown to like having my personal space while in the states. I never said I like the lack of it. And you might ask people all you want, but if they are not even aware of what you are talking about, they can respond whatever comes into their heads. If MOST people hated that, that would NEVER happen. But that is obviously NOT the case. Get it? But that doesn't mean they like it; they are just not AWARE of it and don't mind it. Why don't you go as an observant and see people's reactions when that happens instead? Are they uncomfortable? Do they even notice someone was close to them? That's how you'll get the real answers to your questions.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby chi chi » Tue May 22, 2012 1:56 am

Jimmy111 wrote:Well. Americans are ugly. They want to get in everyones business and then call it their own.


Don't judge 'the Americans' like that.
Americans can not be blamed for the regime the suffer from. Americans are also victims of the Bush regime that commited warcrimes around the world and pushed the US to the ground. Still Americans are dying on a daily basis in the aftermath.

The North Korean people can neither be blamed for the antics of their government. When I visited North Korea in 2006, then I was told that North Koreans hate the American government but not the American people.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby Jimmy111 » Tue May 22, 2012 7:36 am

My THEY was in referance to Inlaws. :D
Anyhow. They means they. You know, "Sticks and stones and all that"This PC Caca is just that. Caca.
It was invented by socialists and you can find all the ways of implimenting it for the "Cause" In "rules for radicals" Please dont buy the book. download a copy. These guys are all for doing away with other peoples money but then it comes to theirs they will fry you over an open pit.

Chi Chi.
The only people you can blame for the American political and economic conditions are the Americans themselves. But I come from a state where ewe keep our politicians under control. We dont trade our freedoms and future for instant gratifacation and a false sense of security. We secure ourselves, work hard and save our money.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby renodante » Tue May 22, 2012 8:01 am

Many Peruvians have simply stopped being friendly and nice with foreigners just because sadly, some "gringos" don't know their place, and take their rudeness wherever they go. People, as a nice gesture, give them an inch, but they take a mile and even demand more.


wait..um...what?!?!

For example? This sounds like a wild idea pulled out of one persons head and projected onto "many peruvians." Foreigners as in tourists? You're telling me peruvians roll out the red carpet and treat foreigners better than their own countries and then get walked on? If so, I have to ask again, what?!? "The customer is always right" doesn't exist here. It doesn't exist for peruvians, nor for foreigners. Is that what you're talking about? As in "we actually gave this foreigner what he paid for, then he had the audacity to come back and return it and complain that it doesn't work! See, you can't do anything for them, they just take take take!"

or are you talking about in social situations? your post is very vague. are you saying peruvians are nice to foreigners, and then (some) foreigners take advantage of how nice peruvians are being to them, and then do..what exactly?
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby Jimmy111 » Tue May 22, 2012 9:02 am

I brought up the "customer is always right" Argument when a company brought melted icecream to a party we had. The owner looked at me strangely and said that he was in business to make a profit. Not do what his customers say.
Yes, different culture.
He is now a very rich man.


renodante wrote:
Many Peruvians have simply stopped being friendly and nice with foreigners just because sadly, some "gringos" don't know their place, and take their rudeness wherever they go. People, as a nice gesture, give them an inch, but they take a mile and even demand more.


wait..um...what?!?!

For example? This sounds like a wild idea pulled out of one persons head and projected onto "many peruvians." Foreigners as in tourists? You're telling me peruvians roll out the red carpet and treat foreigners better than their own countries and then get walked on? If so, I have to ask again, what?!? "The customer is always right" doesn't exist here. It doesn't exist for peruvians, nor for foreigners. Is that what you're talking about? As in "we actually gave this foreigner what he paid for, then he had the audacity to come back and return it and complain that it doesn't work! See, you can't do anything for them, they just take take take!"

or are you talking about in social situations? your post is very vague. are you saying peruvians are nice to foreigners, and then (some) foreigners take advantage of how nice peruvians are being to them, and then do..what exactly?
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby richiecry » Tue May 22, 2012 9:07 am

I think the original post is kind of silly. The post talks about how "ugly" Americans can be and then does not provide a single example of it. Stereotypes are stereotypes and continually bringing these up is pointless. I have encountered to many nice people from the USA as well as so many "ugly" people from NON-USA countries...that I think it is silly to harp on Americans. There is no doubt that the USA as a nation is very insular and might not know of various customs from other countries...but ignorance is not ugliness. And no....I am NOT American.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby goingnowherefast1 » Tue May 22, 2012 9:23 am

These posts are pointless and all they do is incite hate. Let's see how long this takes to get deleted -

PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby chi chi » Tue May 22, 2012 10:13 am

goingnowherefast1 wrote:These posts are pointless and all they do is incite hate. Let's see how long this takes to get deleted -

PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN.


I am a agree.

I don't see a benefit at this topic either for all of us.


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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby Jimmy111 » Tue May 22, 2012 10:59 am

If you guys were really proud to be Americans than you would be horrified at someones attempt to limit your right to free speach. Americans are supposed to be the saviors of freedoms but more and more dont really seem to understand the difference between freedom and surfdom.
You wouldnt be going around telling people to lock or delete posts because you dont agree with what they say. That is as Un American as you can get. Free speach is the First Amendendment for a reason. It is the most important one. However powers have been at work trying to make you guys believe that you shouldnt be allowed free speach.And you are as usual folllowing your emotions instead of using reason.
This is one of the reasons that America has lost its greatness and is destined to fail.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby falconagain » Tue May 22, 2012 1:46 pm

It is very easy to say things about Ugly Americans; because there is plenty of stories
and they are quite popular.

But what is not popular is the stereotype of the Handsome American; the guy that will
give you help even if he does not have much to offer. I have seen this happen in the
US on regular basis. Whenever a person is in trouble, he is provided with copious amounts
of help without asking anything in return. Even in places that are supposed to be slums
this happens very often but looks like the media does not like to report on it because
it does not bring them any ratings. While I disagree in Immigration ideas with many
people, still even in the US I have seen a better treatment to foreigners than the kind
of treatment that they receive in their own countries.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby goingnowherefast1 » Tue May 22, 2012 2:18 pm

Jimmy111 wrote:If you guys were really proud to be Americans than you would be horrified at someones attempt to limit your right to free speach. Americans are supposed to be the saviors of freedoms but more and more dont really seem to understand the difference between freedom and surfdom.
You wouldnt be going around telling people to lock or delete posts because you dont agree with what they say. That is as Un American as you can get. Free speach is the First Amendendment for a reason. It is the most important one. However powers have been at work trying to make you guys believe that you shouldnt be allowed free speach.And you are as usual folllowing your emotions instead of using reason.
This is one of the reasons that America has lost its greatness and is destined to fail.


My comment about deleting the post was referring to the fact that Kelly deletes anything she doesn't like and was wondering how long it would take for her to delete my comment about being proud to be an American. I think the fact that she lets a thread titled "ugly Americans" stand clarifies her stance on the issue loud and clear, and because of that I no longer want anything to do with an anti-American forum. As much as I like these forums, can't brush shoulders with people who publicly foster anti-American rhetoric.

All I can say in regards to your views Jimmy, is that America is awesome and everyday we FIGHT for what we believe. If something is wrong in the world, we don't complain on the internet about it, we do what has to be done to change it. We don't badmouth our own kind and when you do, you give yourself a much worse image than any loud mouthed tourist ever possibly could. adios.

PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby captsirl » Tue May 22, 2012 3:01 pm

There is not a Peruvian or Xpat in here that has asked me for my time and help that I have not scheduled time to go to their home and fix something. There is not one family on my street that has ask for a hand fixing something in their home that I said no to. ( I have tools ) I have donated time and help to the Volunteer Fire Department and fixed a few Police motorcycles on the weekends . No one will ever stop me from trying to help. I rather enjoy it. Most everyone I have know all my life is this way. Sorry if you don't like where I was born.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby bobg » Tue May 22, 2012 3:10 pm

What brought you to the USA, and what keeps you there? Again the capt. is right on , it sounds like you are disconnected from reality
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby PeruFan » Tue May 22, 2012 4:32 pm

WOW, let me say that I obviously did a terrible job of communicating what I was trying to say. It is very obvious after reading all these comments. Don't get me wrong. I love America. I love Americans, I think it is the best country on earth. While it may not be perfect, it does the best in so many areas. Some of you have interpreted my comments as anti-American. That was not my point at all. My point was that some people like Canelita come on here and have bad experiences with ugly -Americans. There are some out there. My point was that most are not. The good ones need to keep up the good work and ignore those that don't see America for what it is...A GREAT COUNTRY!

Americans have done so many great things around the world...even here in Peru.

I just so happen to think Peru is a great country too.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby Kelly » Tue May 22, 2012 5:05 pm

goingnowherefast1 wrote:
My comment about deleting the post was referring to the fact that Kelly deletes anything she doesn't like and was wondering how long it would take for her to delete my comment about being proud to be an American. I think the fact that she lets a thread titled "ugly Americans" stand clarifies her stance on the issue loud and clear, and because of that I no longer want anything to do with an anti-American forum. As much as I like these forums, can't brush shoulders with people who publicly foster anti-American rhetoric.

PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN


Yes, my years spent serving in the US Army were really just an attempt to take it all down from the inside... :roll:
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby rama0929 » Tue May 22, 2012 5:27 pm

PeruFan wrote:WOW, let me say that I obviously did a terrible job of communicating what I was trying to say.


You were fine, just some folks here took the ball and ran with it... In the wrong direction it seems :lol:
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby rama0929 » Tue May 22, 2012 5:31 pm

Jimmy111 wrote:Americans are supposed to be the saviors of freedoms but more and more dont really seem to understand the difference between freedom and surfdom.


Not everyone lives on the coasts, and even those that do many of them probably don't even have boards... And if they're named Charlie, forget it!
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby captsirl » Tue May 22, 2012 5:43 pm

And now let's poke a little fun at ourselves.

I never stop laughing when I hear this quote.

"The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives."
Winston Churchill

Love us or hate us. We never give up and that's what I like most about myself.
Even when someone, maybe in here. Tells me its time to let it go. At least I did by best.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby shane » Tue May 22, 2012 8:57 pm

I don't wish to discriminate but Churchill was always right, except when he was proven wrong................
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby chi chi » Wed May 23, 2012 12:31 am

PeruFan wrote:. The good ones need to keep up the good work and ignore those that don't see America for what it is...A GREAT COUNTRY!


It was used to be a great country. But the Bush dictatorship and the warcrimes they commited brought it down. I am wondering if the US can ever get back on its feet again.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby renodante » Wed May 23, 2012 12:50 am

nevermind, i responded to the wrong person
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby shane » Wed May 23, 2012 2:44 am

Well, to be fair, Americans are ugly........................who else would drop Napalm on children ?
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby falconagain » Wed May 23, 2012 4:03 am

During terrorist times. Peruvians killed whole towns (men, women and children).
The best method to avoid proof was putting everybody in the helicopters and
then dropping them without parachute in the middle of the virgin jungle.
It was published by the Reconciliation Commission about 6 years ago.
It was a dirty war and it was necessary.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby renodante » Wed May 23, 2012 4:44 am

shane wrote:Well, to be fair, Americans are ugly........................who else would drop Napalm on children ?


Anyone with a hegemony, napalm, and the means to drop it on things. The brits, french, dutch, spanish, portuguese, turks, incas, mayans, romans, etc etc etc had their turn at being brutal heartless cruel human beings. just give people lots of power, mixed with firepower. "americans" are not special in that regard, at all.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby chi chi » Wed May 23, 2012 5:43 am

shane wrote:Well, to be fair, Americans are ugly........................who else would drop Napalm on children ?


Don't blame it on 'the Americans'. Would you also blame 'the Iraqi's, the Afghani's or the North Koreans?

Americans are also victims of the ruthless Bush regime that brought and is still bringing down the US.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby captsirl » Wed May 23, 2012 7:37 am

Let's not forget how much fun the Japanese had throwing Chinese babies up in the air to catch them on their bayonets
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes

Did the Brits hand over their German Prisoners after WW2 ended.

This is a dirty game to get started here.
Just because South America never industrialized when the rest of the world did. Therefor never obtaining any weapons of mass destruction does not mean they would not turned just as ugly given the chance. Lets face face facts loosing a soccer game is no reason to use a military to attack the apposing country. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_War

So as far as humanity goes,I guess a total lack of ambition has proved best for man kind.

No culture has ever survived it's success
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby rubble » Wed May 23, 2012 10:52 am

captsirl wrote

"Did the Brits hand over their German Prisoners after WW2 ended."

Hello captsirl

Could you expand on this?

Thanks
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby Kelly » Wed May 23, 2012 11:21 am

This is so far off the mark of the original post, it's ridiculous.

To quote the OP's attempt to clarify -

Some of you have interpreted my comments as anti-American. That was not my point at all. My point was that some people like Canelita come on here and have bad experiences with ugly -Americans. There are some out there. My point was that most are not.


This isn't a thread about how the US behaves in war, it's not about the "Bush regime (???), or about who started the industrial revolution, or who did what in Vietnam or WW2 - as those things have nothing to do with Peru. Off topic for the post, off topic for the forum.

What it is about is how people have noticed there are SOME N. Americans who have come to Peru and seem to have an ugly attitude about Peruvian culture. If that's not what you're talking about, it really doesn't belong in this thread.

You guys are welcome to take the rest of the stuff down to the Off-Topic sub-forum.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby douglas8 » Wed May 23, 2012 3:52 pm

wow funny the americans on here are acting exactly like the peruvians once someone points out their negative traits...the response is "oh yeah well country x y z also did that too"....

verrrryy funny ...you have more in common with the peruvians than you think!

of course beyond that, this has to be one of the most ridiculous threads yet.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby renodante » Wed May 23, 2012 6:39 pm

of course beyond that, this has to be one of the most ridiculous threads yet.


well we can always count on you for some good ol' passive-aggressive back-seat moderating, over 90% of your posts are criticisms of how/what other people are posting. perhaps you should apply for a moderator position, otherwise may i suggest that if you have nothing to add, STFU.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby douglas8 » Wed May 23, 2012 7:05 pm

wow what an incredibly rude reply...however i am left unsuprised and predicted you would be the first to reply with hate and spite to the post.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby rideout » Wed May 23, 2012 9:44 pm

PeruFan wrote:WOW, let me say that I obviously did a terrible job of communicating what I was trying to say. It is very obvious after reading all these comments. Don't get me wrong. I love America. I love Americans, I think it is the best country on earth. While it may not be perfect, it does the best in so many areas. Some of you have interpreted my comments as anti-American.


With all due respect, you should not be shocked! First, you titled the post as "Ugly Americans" and then immediately followed that with:

PeruFan wrote:OK Kelly, please excuse me if this is re-opening a can of worms. Feel free to delete this if it causes to much nastiness!


What, precisely, did you think was going to occur? :wink:
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby molina7 » Wed May 23, 2012 10:54 pm

Ok - I don't post here too often, but as an American I'm feeling indirectly attacked because 1) I cosider myself rather attractive thankyouverymuch (ugly Americans?? Naaah) and 2) calling American expats out as "bad guests" in Peru is silly. After about 5 years as an expat a think there is a general expat mentality, but it can not be simple put on Americans. In fact I hear locals, expats and Americans alike dissing the US much more than I even come close to hearing Americans dissing Peru or Brits or who ever.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby chi chi » Thu May 24, 2012 2:08 am

Kelly wrote:What it is about is how people have noticed there are SOME N. Americans who have come to Peru and seem to have an ugly attitude about Peruvian culture.


If any foreigner doesn't like Peruvian culture and find it hard to live with that then...take the combi to Jorge Chavez airport and you can go wherever you think the grass is greener.
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Re: Ugly Americans

Postby Kelly » Thu May 24, 2012 3:45 am

Obviously, the conversation isn't going to get any better, so I think it's time to move on to another topic.

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