How bad is it, really?

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Chucky
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How bad is it, really?

Postby Chucky » Fri May 25, 2012 1:46 pm

My girlfriend constantly insinuates that because she does not have a degree from a University, she will have a difficult time landing a job with a decent company as a salesperson. I understand the importance of having a degree but is it as limiting as she suggests?


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Re: How bad is it, really?

Postby falconagain » Fri May 25, 2012 2:02 pm

Sales depend on the person and the product. The degree will help you to get through
the door but after that you will need to perform a weekly amount of sales depending
on the company. I have many friends that worked selling AFP services in Lima, some
with success, others without success. But there was no correlation between their sales
numbers and if they had a degree or not.

No there is several companies that are open a certain circle of people in Lima, if you
do not know anybody it does not matter if you are a Summa Cum Laude (I hope I got
right) because they will only hire people from their group.
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sbaustin
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Re: How bad is it, really?

Postby sbaustin » Fri May 25, 2012 3:00 pm

She will probably have a very hard time getting a good job without a degree. I've met taxi drivers with university degrees.
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Re: How bad is it, really?

Postby captsirl » Fri May 25, 2012 3:04 pm

In my 50 years I found if their more interested in your CV the less likely the company will last. Sales will always be word of mouth and who you know. She should network and make good impressions. And expect to get taken advantage of a little in the beginning. The key to success is knowledge and how to make friends. Its the single most rewarding job in the company with none of the sleepless nights worrying about how to cover parole and the rest that goes with that. And never forget your customers are yours for life. And can be your next employer. Always remember if people don't like you or you cant sell your self you cant own a business, But if people do like you and you can sell your sell you don't have to own the business because you are the business
I wish her the best of luck.
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Re: How bad is it, really?

Postby sunflower » Fri May 25, 2012 6:08 pm

I'm not really getting the point. If she thinks her chances are bigger with a degree, why doesn't she just enroll in a university, do her studies and make a degree? Or does she want to convince you that it's on you to pay for it?
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gerard
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Re: How bad is it, really?

Postby gerard » Fri May 25, 2012 6:33 pm

I can't decide if her inability to convince you reinforces her point that she needs a degree or suggests sales is not going to be her best area of work.

My 2c; there are plenty of companies selling stuff in Lima that are taking on 18 year olds with few qualifications, putting them in a telecentre and giving them a target. They either can, in which case they make money, or they can't and only last a few weeks.

If you can sell, a degree isn't going to help and a lack of a degree isn't going to hold you back. Performance is the only thing that counts. By all means tell her to enroll at uni, but at the same take a part-time job and get a track record.
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Re: How bad is it, really?

Postby falconagain » Fri May 25, 2012 6:36 pm

In Peru there is the myth that a degree will open you all the doors.
Which is why there is so many Universities now, the problem is
that they produce too many graduates; another problem is that
due to competition the good reputation Universities had to lower
academic standards in order to attract more students.
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Re: How bad is it, really?

Postby jueves » Fri May 25, 2012 9:04 pm

falconagain wrote:In Peru there is the myth that a degree will open you all the doors.
Which is why there is so many Universities now, the problem is
that they produce too many graduates; another problem is that
due to competition the good reputation Universities had to lower
academic standards in order to attract more students.

I couldn't have say it better, there are too many graduates that are jobless and the universities keep producing more and more.
I don't think a degree really matters in the sales area,in Peru it could matter in a different profession; if she is a lawyer or accountant or engineer , etc .. usually one of the exigences is to have the title ..which is a different thing than the bachelor's cause you have to present a thesis in order to earn it, and only like that you can apply to the "colegio de abogados" o cualquier otro "colegio de..." that way ,if you want to apply for some job of the state you could qualify in a better position than your competition, but this is not significant if you want to apply for jobs into the private sector.
Good luck and hopefully this helps! :)
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Re: How bad is it, really?

Postby sbaustin » Fri May 25, 2012 9:27 pm

jueves wrote:usually one of the exigences is to have the title ..which is a different thing than the bachelor's cause you have to present a thesis in order to earn it, and only like that you can apply to the "colegio de abogados" o cualquier otro "colegio de..." that way ,if you want to apply for some job of the state you could qualify in a better position than your competition, but this is not significant if you want to apply for jobs into the private sector.
Good luck and hopefully this helps! :)


I believe many universities allow you to take a class instead of doing a presentation in order to get your titulo.. I know that PUCP does and the class costs around $3k USD.
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Re: How bad is it, really?

Postby rideout » Fri May 25, 2012 9:40 pm

falconagain wrote:In Peru there is the myth that a degree will open you all the doors.
Which is why there is so many Universities now, the problem is
that they produce too many graduates; another problem is that
due to competition the good reputation Universities had to lower
academic standards in order to attract more students.


This is sooo true! EXCEPT, this is not just Peru, it is the US as well! Degrees have become big business and the money always wins out and not surprisingly, most universities, including the most prestigious of private universities, are continuously lowering their standards.

But, I digress...as for the original post...I would think in "sales," that quality and proven experience would be a greater asset than a college degree; now, if she wanted to be a surgeon, I would hope for both quality experience and a degree. :wink:
Last edited by rideout on Sat May 26, 2012 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How bad is it, really?

Postby renodante » Sat May 26, 2012 7:09 am

i spent 50 grand on a degree in Religious Studies. I work in real estate and they didn't give a damn about my degree in the interview. It helps, a little, of course to have one, any degree. But not 50 grand worth of help. Damn I regret that degree.

here in lima, (throwing out a wild number here) like 70% of cab drivers have at least bachelors degrees and it's not hard to find one with a masters, or beyond. and they're driving cabs. there's a lot of pure luck to life, that's one thing i've learned.
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Re: How bad is it, really?

Postby Pollo mani » Sat May 26, 2012 8:01 am

sunflower wrote:I'm not really getting the point. If she thinks her chances are bigger with a degree, why doesn't she just enroll in a university, do her studies and make a degree? Or does she want to convince you that it's on you to pay for it?



I think you hit it on the head sunflower, she is after him to pay for it...
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Re: How bad is it, really?

Postby jueves » Sat May 26, 2012 9:56 am

I believe many universities allow you to take a class instead of doing a presentation in order to get your titulo.. I know that PUCP does and the class costs around $3k USD.[/quote]

True.. I forgot to mention that.Although it actually depends on the career, for mainstream careers is pretty much valid, but won't work if you are studying maths or arts or careers that usually have a very reduce number of students.
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Re: How bad is it, really?

Postby Kelly » Sat May 26, 2012 1:51 pm

renodante wrote:here in lima, (throwing out a wild number here) like 70% of cab drivers have at least bachelors degrees and it's not hard to find one with a masters, or beyond. and they're driving cabs. there's a lot of pure luck to life, that's one thing i've learned.


Yeah, I don't know the exact figure, but my husband has quite a few taxi driving friends that engineer or lawyer as their day job.
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Re: How bad is it, really?

Postby chi chi » Sun May 27, 2012 5:11 am

My gf says that the best way to land a good jobs is when you have working experience abroad. Companies take you more seriously. Especially if you talk other languages. Working experience abroad is more worth than a degree.

But not only in Peru. I personally don't have any diploma at all but if I go to Belgium I can get very good and high paid jobs.
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Re: How bad is it, really?

Postby rama0929 » Sun May 27, 2012 8:58 am

renodante wrote:i spent 50 grand on a degree in Religious Studies. I work in real estate and they didn't give a damn about my degree in the interview. It helps, a little, of course to have one, any degree. But not 50 grand worth of help. Damn I regret that degree.

here in lima, (throwing out a wild number here) like 70% of cab drivers have at least bachelors degrees and it's not hard to find one with a masters, or beyond. and they're driving cabs. there's a lot of pure luck to life, that's one thing i've learned.


I spent 1/4 of that and got a degree in Computer Science... :)

Agreed that it takes a little bit of luck, I'm working in finance now and I fell into that job because I knew the basics of Access.

That said, with degrees and certifications, it's good to have them, but it's even better to network. It's also a good idea to keep your grades up as that opens all kinds of doors to recruitment, internships and other opportunities in general. Barring that, there's always the service; the gf's cousin just entered the Peruvian Army, and she'll advance her nursing career there (she already has her Nursing degree)
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Re: How bad is it, really?

Postby falconagain » Sun May 27, 2012 9:46 am

rama0929 wrote:
renodante wrote:i spent 50 grand on a degree in Religious Studies. I work in real estate and they didn't give a damn about my degree in the interview. It helps, a little, of course to have one, any degree. But not 50 grand worth of help. Damn I regret that degree.

here in lima, (throwing out a wild number here) like 70% of cab drivers have at least bachelors degrees and it's not hard to find one with a masters, or beyond. and they're driving cabs. there's a lot of pure luck to life, that's one thing i've learned.


I spent 1/4 of that and got a degree in Computer Science... :)

Agreed that it takes a little bit of luck, I'm working in finance now and I fell into that job because I knew the basics of Access.

That said, with degrees and certifications, it's good to have them, but it's even better to network. It's also a good idea to keep your grades up as that opens all kinds of doors to recruitment, internships and other opportunities in general. Barring that, there's always the service; the gf's cousin just entered the Peruvian Army, and she'll advance her nursing career there (she already has her Nursing degree)



True, many Peruvians get shocked when they find out that a Person has a U.S. degree but that the amount
paid was lower to what he paid in Peru. Peruvian Universities are quite expensive and many families pay
in full an amount between $50,000 to $100,000 to finish.
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Re: How bad is it, really?

Postby americorps » Sun May 27, 2012 10:37 am

From reading the conversation, I think 2 ideas are getting crossed here.

1. Does not having a degree keep you from getting in the door of many companies for a sales job.

The answer to that is very much yes. Even though there is a glut of degreed people, they will still get preference over non-degreed people.

2. Is that the way it should be.

That is a matter of opinion. Personally, I always value real world experience over education but in Peru there is a status symbol in having a degree and that is the way it works.

So my answer is..even if you do not agree with the system, no matter how legitimate your feelings, the degree gives one a much higher chance of getting in the door.
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Re: How bad is it, really?

Postby cinthyaishere » Sun May 27, 2012 10:47 am

Alotta people think a degree will solve all of your problems and guarantee you financial security. But that is deff false. A degree + good connections + a "go getter" attitude probably gives u a higher chance of achieving financial stability , or even just the connections and tenacious perseverance. But I think in the sales department it all depends on what you're selling. If it's phone sales or in person sales, if your target audience are middle class or upper class people. I've seen lots of ads for sales "girls" and they all have these "requirements" based on physical appearance... then I've also seen ads for senior sales people which require at least 5 years experience and i'm assuming also proof that you're good at what you do. Then I've also seen ads for young people with no qualifications or experience who only get commision. But I have never seen an ad for sales people requiring a degree in anything.. well that's just me but I think a sales person builds their qualifications as they go..I'm assuming most of them start from the bottom and when they're really good at it, they can earn lots of money. :D
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Re: How bad is it, really?

Postby rama0929 » Sun May 27, 2012 10:49 am

falconagain wrote:True, many Peruvians get shocked when they find out that a Person has a U.S. degree but that the amount
paid was lower to what he paid in Peru. Peruvian Universities are quite expensive and many families pay
in full an amount between $50,000 to $100,000 to finish.


I went to a state school, that kept the costs down. It's not uncommon to drop 50-100k in the states either, if they go to a private school.

General observation is that there are quite a few trade school and certification programs in Lima, but I'll freely admit I don't know how effective the post secondary education system is in Peru, or if they have things like financial aid (grants/loans), scholarships and military assistance.
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Re: How bad is it, really?

Postby SilverbackPeru » Mon May 28, 2012 3:30 pm

I would say you really need a degree to get by in Peru. I don´t have one and im not expecting to make over $300 a month. I could be wrong i don´t know but it really is the impression that i get here.
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Re: How bad is it, really?

Postby curlyguy18 » Mon May 28, 2012 10:00 pm

Well, landing a job is difficult with or without a degree, but of course most employers will prefer someone with a degree and it goes without saying that most jobs that hire people that do not have a degree normally pay less.
Falconagain has made a very good point here; all these universities are raking it in from all these people that want to get a degree and private unis are NOT cheap as someone else has already mentioned.

Having said this, nonetheless, like in many other places in the world, sometimes it is not WHAT you know but WHO you know when it comes to landing a job and we all know how Peruvians like to "pull strings".When my brother in law was about to graduate from law school, I remember my father calling someone he knew in a firm where my brother in law was applying for a job. My dad's exact words on the phone were, "Ya sabes cómo es, hay que prenderse de alguien, después nos arreglamos el primer sueldo" (You know what it's like, we have to "hang on to someone"; we'll later negotiate [my brother in law's] first salary". I was only what, 12 at the time, so I asked my dad why he was telling this person part of my brother-in-law's salary would go to this man, and my dad (not the most ethical person on earth, I must say) said to me in front of my mum and sister: "Así es pues, a los hombres les piden parte del sueldo y a las mujeres la cosa", "That's how it goes, men are asked for part of their salary and women are asked for their thing" I think we know what that "thing" is.

I'm not saying this is true everywhere but again, sometimes it's who you know.

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