***** landlord - SUNAT option not working...

[kuranaga]

always the perpetual problem with security deposit...

My ***** landlord does not return the security deposit - he says that there was water leak in our apartment and he tries to charge all costs of SEDAPAL to us, that revised his house (because there was a water leak but in the tubes to the house). There is no independent water counter, just common counter for entire house (however there are 6 apartments in his house). He says "consumo elevado" because of water leak in water closet in our bath - LOL. Of course the water bill he shown us, shows a normal amount to be paid - nothing went up, besides December last year, where it went up 25%. Now he came with a long calculation in Excel, how much more he paid for water LOL (probably he thinks we never before saw an excel calculation).
In the contract the water is included in the rent - we only paid the electricity (because there is a separate counter for that).

SUNAT option did not work - we told him we want to see the receipt for SUNAT for the rent we paid otherwise we go to SUNAT with contract and the receipts from the bank, that we paid him - he ignores.

any other options???

[Philipc4u59]

I had FEARS that this was happening when we moved from our first apartment - NO REFUND OF SECURITY!
As it turned out, the owners were out of the country; when they returned, we received our DEPOSIT!

In investigating my options; I located a good 'GENERAL PRACTICE" attorney with fair fees; if you need his services, please advise.

As a former CONSUMER ADVOCATE in PA (US); I have advised others in the US to "place as much aggravation upon these "slum lords" as is legally possible". Make these ***** landlords as uncomfortable as you are; "bad mouth" him to EVERYONE!!! Make sure that every day, he has another issue to deal with; he may give up.

Unfortunately, in Peru is it not as easy to get JUSTICE - as with small claims courts in the US; but ATTORNEY FEES are recoverable - in the US this is rarely the case.

Best wishes,
Philip

[kuranaga]

I HAVE the option, that I will go with police to his house and they will cry at him and take him to the comisaria (I have a very good wire to them), they will enter a denuncia against him into the system too... however I do not really know, if that will be enough to scare this bas****.

another option I am thinking of, is to throw a raw chicken (without head) over his fence with a paper inside "next time we throw something else". Well maybe not the best option - but I am looking for anything that scares him.

We also HAVE the option to send physical threats, because of my wife knowing the appropriate people for this kind of things - however this should be the LAST option I think.

any suggestions?

[chi chi]

Your landlord is getting 'vivo'. Because you are leaving his flat, he's just trying to get a few more bucks out of your pocket.

I HAVE the option, that I will go with police to his house and they will cry at him and take him to the comisaria (I have a very good wire to them), they will enter a denuncia against him into the system too... however I do not really know, if that will be enough to scare this bas****.

another option I am thinking of, is to throw a raw chicken (without head) over his fence with a paper inside "next time we throw something else". Well maybe not the best option - but I am looking for anything that scares him.

We also HAVE the option to send physical threats, because of my wife knowing the appropriate people for this kind of things - however this should be the LAST option I think.

any suggestions?

Don't do anything that can get YOU into trouble with the law. Just try again the SUNAT option.

Deposits are always a source of a discussion in Peru. Next time if you rent a place, just don't pay the last months rent and tell the landlord to keep the one months deposit. So, you paid all the rent due and you don't have to go begging to get your deposit back.

[Sergio Bernales]

Adding this to all your other experiences, you don't seem to be having a lot of luck here in Peru. Sounds like what Chi Chi says is your best option. The thing with your landlord is he thinks you're a dumb foreigner to be milked of cash. Try not to go overboard with the threats, as it may work against you, but don't let it drop. Go to Sunat and then issue a denuncia. Always keep calm and don't lose your temper. I'd also contact your neighbours in the building, presuming they are also his tenants, and see what they say. By the way, where is the apartment? I can see it's a small building so you don't have a junta.

[argidd]

I agree with Chichi and Sergio.
Also, try going to the pólice. A few months ago, a friend of mine was being scammed a carpenter working on her doors, the pólice helped her with a process before a formal denuncia, phone calls, etc. It did work.

[Bobby]

IMHO:

1. Chichi's advice seems your best option
2. Fortunately enough most landlords are fair. In the future when you sign any rental agreement it is very wise to read it carefully in order to avoid any disadvantage position if a problem should occur. In your particular case it seems obvious that your landlord is being very unfair and any lawyer would tell you that. A good rental agreement would have prevented your situation.
3. I understand you are very angry but the suggestions you post (police, rotten chicken with threat, etc.) seems to show you aren't very straight either...

[Philipc4u59]

Please consider all the LEGAL OPTIONS; give the landlord a "taste" of your displeasure by following some of the LEGAL suggestions herein. "Two wrongs, don't make a RIGHT".

Best wishes,
Philip

[Jalapenomel]

We've all seemed to come to the same conclusion the hard way here; you will not get your deposit back. Don't pay last month's rent, and then the rest of your deposit goes to the landlord. It's a horrible practice, but it seems to be the way it is here.

[Sergio Bernales]

I have to say in the five apartments I've lived in in Lima, I've been given my deposit back every time. I've had more problems in the UK with landlords than here. But I do accept that like everywhere there are some dodgy landlords. If you persevere and do everything according to the law and not resort to threatening your landlord, which may only land you in trouble, I'm pretty sure you'll get your deposit back, but you may need to be patient. The courts should work here to your advantage, but they work slowly.

[kuranaga]

Well, my peruvian GF continued to pay him, I wasn't here for 2 months due to business issues. I was asking her how does she feel about the landlord, will he return the deposit etc etc. and she was very comfortable with him, saying he is still correct and she is not seeing any problem coming when we move out. I did not feel comfortable but ok, I assumed the landlord will think twice as the contract is in her name and she lives here (so it is not a gringo contract).

Do not tell me now anything stupid ok... my GF is now very upset as she feels personally responsable - it is her country so she should know - not me. I told her again and again, that I heard the landlords do not return the deposit and she always tried to calm me down "why should he not return it" etc etc... But you know how hard it can be to argue against your GF moreover if she is from here and you are not - probably you know this type of discussion when the peruvian feel personally attacked if you try to argue that here are not the same rules like e.g. in Europe.

Moreover with 2 landlords before we had no problem of this type and the deposit was returned without trouble - so she had 2 more arguments against me "look before it always worked" etc.

While I wasn't there I asked her if it won't be better to just stop paying him because I feel uncomfortable about the deposit (I felt uncomfortable with the guy - he was too friendly) and then we just move out - however she was afraid about her Infocor score, arguing she cannot just break contracts - she works in "tesoreria", so you can imagine she may be more sensitive to correctness in money issues (one argument for me for being with her, however maybe not helpful here in Peru - got it?).

I am not trying to say it is her fault, just explain HOW it happened. Doesn't help anyway to say it is someone's fault.

This owner is a real *****. now he come up with a calculation saying that we owe him 2500 soles even after taking the deposit (he adds more and more stuff to the list) and that he will pass the stuff to his lawyer to take the "deuda" that we have with him now. (however I am sure that all this crap was idea of his lawyer already).

You can say what you want, but such basura of person does deserve the worst treatment. Otherwise they do not learn.

[Sergio Bernales]

Well, that's a classic way of negotiating. You demand so much that losing the original deposit seems like a bargain. Some people pay thinking they've got off lightly. It's nothing but a scare/negotiating tactic, unless you've actually trashed his house and he's got good reason. Otherwise it looks like he's treating this like a poker game where he keeps raising the stakes and screwing you, make you get more irrational, while you've turned it very personal and can only see red.

I still say a denuncia is your best bet, get the police along, take photos of everything to show it's been left in a good condition, and then in a few months you'll get a hearing with a judge. This guy probably won't turn up, so they escalate it. It gets regarded as a more serious crime. This time he'll come along and presuming everything you said is true, the judge will ask him to pay something and set another date. He probably won't turn up for that either, thinking that you'll be gone from the country and he won't have to pay you your deposit. This merry dance could continue for a year or two. It's your choice, but if you are in Peru for the next few years, you will probably get it eventually.

The guy knows the law works slowly and he's counting on you giving up. That's what people like him do. He's probably done it in the past. He treats it like a game. You are losing your rag when you need to think the same way. Don't threaten him to his face. This will be used against you and if you carry out any of your threats, or do something like pour cement down his drains, leave rotting fish under the floorboards, call his home every night at three in the morning and just breathe to freak him out and all these sorts of things, then you'll probably never get your deposit back and he'll try and get more money out of you. You have to think whether revenge is more important to you or your deposit. But if you choose revenge, take into account whether he has the DNI of your girlfriend or your passport number. He can also issue a denuncia, which may affect your girlfriend. He may also be a caudillo or know one and is therefore cocky for a reason.

[kuranaga]

well, he will need to prove that it was actually us, if something happens.

I think I will go for the "columbian mafia" option - we know the people. Too dangerous to do it myself (not in the sense he will do something with me, but the eventual trouble with police later). However, if you have an alibi, what can he prove - nothing.

[kuranaga]

@Sergio Bernales

and yes, I take it personally. you know that in Peru people die for 100 soles on the street. So think twice, before you rob somebody - I would say.

[Sergio Bernales]

@Sergio Bernales

and yes, I take it personally. you know that in Peru people die for 100 soles on the street. So think twice, before you rob somebody - I would say.

It's difficult not to take it personally, but you shouldn't. Good luck if you go down the lawful route. Otherwise ten cuidado.

[DC_20833]

As the author of the SUNAT option I would first of all turn him in to teach him a good lesson don't threaten do it. What you do is go to the SUNAT office and make a request to see the SUNAT receipt and if they have it you will get it and if they don't then your land lord has a big problem. I am glad to see so many people are using this option. I strongly suggest we start a dirty landlord thread.

Your next option is www.indecopi.gob.pe/‎ this is like the Peruvian Consumer Protection Agency. I used them once with a computer store I had a issue with and the matter was resolved. I would also do the Police Option too. FINALLY, go buy about 10 boxes of dental floss and flush it down the toilets before you leave in about 6 months he`ll get a nice sewage backup.

[kuranaga]

to give you an idea what this ***** is doing with us, I show you the list he sent us


http://postimg.org/image/l5kaokg19/

he inflated totally the costs of everything. OK we did add water to these two plants, that one is reasonable, and he DID a maintenance of the WC, but there was for sure not any bigger problem. He told us into my face that everything is ok and we gave him back the keys he asked us for the account number to send the deposit, and 3 days later he comes with this CRAP. you can imagine how furious it makes me.

We should publish a list of all ***** landlords imo.

[victmanu]

well, he will need to prove that it was actually us, if something happens.

I think I will go for the "columbian mafia" option - we know the people. Too dangerous to do it myself (not in the sense he will do something with me, but the eventual trouble with police later). However, if you have an alibi, what can he prove - nothing.

There are beautiful women in Colombia why you don't go to live there ?.
The colombian sicarios would be happy to have you as a client.
Their customer service is better.

[kuranaga]

we did a complaint at the police, they summoned him but he did not come to the appointment with the police LOL. We did also a consulta (without yet making a formal complaint) with SUNAT - he did not pay anything.... I start to think that guy is on drugs...

[JanD]

We did also a consulta (without yet making a formal complaint) with SUNAT - he did not pay anything.... I start to think that guy is on drugs...

No....if you play it simple and well: "This guy is in serious trouble"

[Philipc4u59]

I agree!!!

As a person trying to adapt my experience as a CONSUMER ADVOCATE in the US; you don't play "games" with SUNAT, they can cause a person a lot of headaches (emotional & financial).

This person is obviously of SLUM-LORD mentality; keep your cool & allow the legal system to work.

Best wishes,
Philip

[kuranaga]

we wait until the second chance the police gave to him - if he does not come, then GAME OVER for him.

if he comes, they will query him about all the items on the list that he sent to us - they will make a protocol what he says and he must show evidence "ok I did this work in THEIR apartment and it costed XXX" or "ok I did not do this work" etc.

so, we will obtain his manifestation from police - he would be very stupid to say things he has no evidence for.

With this evidence we will make a "carta notarial" that will be sent to him, to ask him to return the money minus the real costs (from the police manifest - not the bloated costs from his wet dreams ). We will notify him, that each week he does not return the money, it bears an interest of 1% per week - with the passive act of not returning it he agrees to this condition.

That's the plan basically for now.

[JanD]

Sounds good: "I think now you're doing business!"
Good luck and plse, keep us up to date.....

[sunflower]

You are supposed to have spend nearly S/. 3000 on sedapal for 6 month??? What have you done? Even with a broken water supply of a toilet that is running 24 hours you won't be able to use S/. 500 worth of water per month. Have you filled the pool every 4 weeks.

Go the legal Peruvian way. Next to the police thing you are doing, I would as well make a complaint at Sunat.

I think we are very lucky. We had 2 landlords since we are here in Lima and both have been absolutely great and honest people.

[sbaustin]

Now is about the time you'll want to call the guy and ask him if he wants to return the correct amount to you or if he wants you to continue with the sunat/police option.

[kuranaga]

Today we saw his declaration at the police. Basically he said that in our contract we are only permitted "normal consumption" of water and that the consumption was over limit. He was asked where was the problem with the water pipes - he responded that "he ASSUMES it was in our apartment" - he was asked to give proof by police, but he could not give a proof that it was in our apartment.

He also denied that SEDAPAL came to check our department in February and there was no problem - ha said that he does not remember there was any SEDAPAL check in February (but I remember very well because I opened them the door together with this b***** landlord) - moreover he said that we have refused him to enter the apartment and to check what is going on during the 6 months.

All this he accompanied by lots of documents from SEDAPAL - just to trash the police with papers that nobody can look through. But what I see it is lots of reclamation to SEDAPAL and protocols of works being done - nothing carrying any info it was in our apartment or in any sense related to our apartment.

He shown also two water bills - from apartment 302 and 202 - but ours was 301. And they show huge peak in water consumption, the first one in December and January and the second in April and May.

he is is a stupid moron... anyway he still has our money. The police officer said something in spanish that I could not memorize but it was like "he is a bandit" - do not remember the spanish word.

We also consulted SUNAT - he did not pay anything since Oct 2012 - so for sure he did not pay for the rent.

We will send him another mail suggesting to return the deposit or in other case we continue with legal way and do a denuncia at SUNAT and Indecopi. And we will make a carta notarial to ask him formally to return the money.

However I feel like this stupid moron prefers to loose the money with SUNAT than to return it to us

[marlia]

Hello Kuranaga, sorry for what happened to you. Please share information about your ***** Landlord and his apartment so there will be NO next victims of your **** landlord. Good luck!

[chi chi]

Don't threaten the guy or don't do anything else that can get YOU into trouble. That's probably what he's provoking anyway. This guy for sure did this before to other tenants so he knows how to play it.

If you report him to SUNAT for not paying his tax, he will get into trouble with SUNAT but you still won't get your deposit back.

The best thing is just stay in the flat and off course don't pay any longer the rent. That the easiest way to recuperate your deposit. He will for sure try to evict you but that process is very slow in Peru and easily takes more than a year before you finally will be evicted. I won't be surprised that his previous tenant did that and now he wants you to pay for that. He takes you for the stupid gringo that doesn't know how things work in Peru and tries you to pay for the losses he made in the past.

[kuranaga]

@chichi
I doubt we can recover the money because we already left the flat. The only thing we can do is doing damage to him via SUNAT & INDECOPI - but this goat prefers to loose money (and then probably take more from next renter) than to give something back.

He is not subscribed to SUNAT, neither he did any repairs legally asking receipts. We only 'threatened' him that we go to SUNAT if he does not show us the legal receipts. Doubt that can get us into trouble (no personal threats).

This ***** lives in Velasco Astete 1896 - to my knowledge it is his only house that he rents out - BE AWARE, stay AWAY from that address. I prefer not to tell names, that might get me in troubles maybe.