How to work for foreign company?

Answers to your qestions about moving to, and living in, Peru,
kuranaga
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How to work for foreign company?

Postby kuranaga » Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:18 pm

Hi

what would be the official way to work for foreign company in Peru? A company that has no offices in Peru (e.g. only in US) and wants to hire me? It won't be work for receipts but a regular contract (so I do not bill them for doing some work units, e.g. this month I do X hours and bill them XX, next month I do Y hours and bill them YY, but rather a fixed term contract).

We were thinking about working for recibos but this is not really what the contract would be about. I am afraid when I would do it for recibos, they would ask me to pay VAT or exportation charges or so... who knows. Afraid getting lost in lawless Peru... :shock:

Anybody doing that?

On the other hand if my money is wired onto account in US, would they ever know in Peru? :?


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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby fanning » Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:40 pm

Read http://www.sunat.gob.pe/legislacion/renta/ley/capvi.htm ( Articulo 51 ) and http://www.sunat.gob.pe/legislacion/renta/ley/capvii.htm (Articulo 53 )
It looks you pay whatever tax you have to pay in the foreign land ( some countries don't make you pay tax if you don't live there .. )
You can deduct some of this tax from your bruto salary ( with a complicated formula ).
Then you pay Peruvian taxes according to tax gliding tax scale, but you must take one important thing in consideration.
Foreign income doesn't get the tax free amount of 7 UIT ( S/. 25900 ), so you pay 15% over the first scale ( up to S/. 99 900 )
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby kuranaga » Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:34 pm

The question was HOW I do it practically.... do I need to register a RUC or what? Or I tell them at the end of year that I gained XXX .... I expect SUNAT to be as corrupt as the Peru Police - everything is possible. How can I assure they will not come with multas just to grab my money?

anyone here doing this in Peru?
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby sbaustin » Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:38 pm

kuranaga wrote:The question was HOW I do it practically.... do I need to register a RUC or what? Or I tell them at the end of year that I gained XXX .... I expect SUNAT to be as corrupt as the Peru Police - everything is possible. How can I assure they will not come with multas just to grab my money?

anyone here doing this in Peru?


You can't be sure of anything and you can probably rest assured you'll be paying taxes somewhere.
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby kuranaga » Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:46 pm

sbaustin wrote:You can't be sure of anything and you can probably rest assure you'll be paying taxes somewhere.


:evil: :evil:

typo? "rest assure"? what do you mean?

Am I right assuming SUNAT is a wh*rehouse here in Peru? Nothing is sure besides the multa? :evil:

My experience with police was very bad... everything is $$$... how can I just get my stuff right without running into gringo traps? I am afraid they will see me as a prepetual source of money once they know I have some.

What are the chances they will find about foreign account?
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby argidd » Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:04 pm

I believe SUNAT is not into that kind of crap...
But first of all, are you a legal resident of Peru? I think that is the first thing to know in order to give you advice.
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby alan » Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:17 pm

kuranaga wrote:Hi

what would be the official way to work for foreign company in Peru? A company that has no offices in Peru (e.g. only in US) and wants to hire me? It won't be work for receipts but a regular contract (so I do not bill them for doing some work units, e.g. this month I do X hours and bill them XX, next month I do Y hours and bill them YY, but rather a fixed term contract).

We were thinking about working for recibos but this is not really what the contract would be about. I am afraid when I would do it for recibos, they would ask me to pay VAT or exportation charges or so... who knows. Afraid getting lost in lawless Peru... :shock:

Anybody doing that?

On the other hand if my money is wired onto account in US, would they ever know in Peru? :?


Kind of ironic that you talk about getting lost in lawless Peru, then go on to ask whether you should just work under the table here.

Work and tax legislation is not lawless at all, though it is subject to change and can be complicated at first. Why not consult an accountant? It's not that expensive and it will save you a lot of heartache down the road. Even better, talk to two accountants to make sure they coincide. If you can, ask them to give you the reference to the legislation that backs up the advice they are giving you.

Best of luck.
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby argidd » Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:19 pm

If you happen to be a legal resident/citizen then you could do it presenting your Recibos por Honorarios, and adhering to the taxation laws involved in such invoices. You request a RUC number for Recibo por Honorarios, when you are a person (not a company) without a business. SUNAT gives you a RUC, you issue your recibos, and that’s it. You could also opt for the employee figure with the info Fanning provided; but you will be paying more taxes, and of course will not have any benefits (as you would working for a Peruvian company).
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby kuranaga » Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:06 pm

Alan wrote:
Kind of ironic that you talk about getting lost in lawless Peru, then go on to ask whether you should just work under the table here.



my experience with police was they always ask for money or try to cheat me - WHY I should believe SUNAT is something else?

I'm not saying there are no laws in Peru but I do not like the way they apply them. And because I am looking very gringo they consider me an easy target. got it?
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby chi chi » Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:51 pm

kuranaga wrote:my experience with police was they always ask for money or try to cheat me - WHY I should believe SUNAT is something else?


Personaly, I never had any bad experiences with police. There are a lot of checkpoints around where I live (Tarapoto) but I was never asked for money. The documents of my motorbike and licence are in order, so there's nothing they should hassle me for.

But I heared I depends of where you live. I often hear about police corruption in places like Chiclayo and the places close to the Ecuadorian border.
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby sbaustin » Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:54 pm

kuranaga wrote:
Alan wrote:
Kind of ironic that you talk about getting lost in lawless Peru, then go on to ask whether you should just work under the table here.



my experience with police was they always ask for money or try to cheat me - WHY I should believe SUNAT is something else?

I'm not saying there are no laws in Peru but I do not like the way they apply them. And because I am looking very gringo they consider me an easy target. got it?


Can you let us know if you are a legal resident (with carnet) or a tourist?
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby fanning » Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:26 pm

You should fill out PDT 616, you can download them from http://www2.sunat.gob.pe/pdt/pdtdown/independientes/independientes.htm
You fill it out, and you can pay with your credit card using your Clave Sol, or pay in any bank with cash.
In Peru the taxes basically work as follow. There are laws, you are supposed to know, you pay before a date you are supposed to know, if you pay late, you include the interest amount, that you yourself calculate based on formulas you are supposed to know.
If you make a mistake, and they find it out, they will give you big multas. But in the meantime you must find out by yourself how much you must pay. If you ask Sunat how much you have to pay, they will only give you some references to reglamentos, and leave the actual calculation to you. If you made a mistake in the eyes of an inspector, you get multas, but there is no real way beforehand of knowing if you followed all the rules by the letter.
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby kuranaga » Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:30 pm

fanning wrote:In Peru the taxes basically work as follow. There are laws, you are supposed to know, you pay before a date you are supposed to know, if you pay late, you include the interest amount, that you yourself calculate based on formulas you are supposed to know.
If you make a mistake, and they find it out, they will give you big multas. But in the meantime you must find out by yourself how much you must pay. If you ask Sunat how much you have to pay, they will only give you some references to reglamentos, and leave the actual calculation to you. If you made a mistake in the eyes of an inspector, you get multas, but there is no real way beforehand of knowing if you followed all the rules by the letter.


I already expected something like that.... or you are kidding me fanning :mrgreen: I feel like a gringo cash machine here, honestly speaking. And I am sad of it. seriously
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby kuranaga » Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:33 pm

sbaustin wrote:Can you let us know if you are a legal resident (with carnet) or a tourist?


not yet having the CE but my wife is peruvian.

Honestly I am going to receive a contract with NSA (not kidding you) and I wonder if it is worth ever the game in Peru or is that better for me to take my wife with me to US. I feel like my job may make me more trouble in Peru than not paying some taxes (you probably read newspapers about Snowden & spying in south America). You can imagine what uncomfortable decisions I must make.
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby argidd » Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:41 pm

As I mentioned... very important to know.

If you are not a legal resident of Peru, then there is no way to deal with SUNAT or anyone. You are still considered a tourist, and cannot conduct business. Once you get your CE, then you can think which way you can choose to conduct your employment. Being with the NSA; I would suppose they would pay you through the Embassy of the US, or through one of their agencies. It doesn't make much sense that you would be paid independently, at least it doesn't make sense to me... But I am not an expert in accounting, or secret service (or whatever it is). Also, if you were to formally work for them, and you do not have a visa, they should facilitate a business visa for you (or whatever they do for all the agents that come to work in Peru).
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby argidd » Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:48 pm

kuranaga wrote:
sbaustin wrote:Can you let us know if you are a legal resident (with carnet) or a tourist?


not yet having the CE but my wife is peruvian.

Honestly I am going to receive a contract with NSA (not kidding you) and I wonder if it is worth ever the game in Peru or is that better for me to take my wife with me to US. I feel like my job may make me more trouble in Peru than not paying some taxes (you probably read newspapers about Snowden & spying in south America). You can imagine what uncomfortable decisions I must make.


Ohhhh yeah, and if your work doesn't involve Peru, why are you even considering staying?
I mean, I imagine it is a good opportunity... why think twice?
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby kuranaga » Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:54 pm

because my wife is peruvian and she wants to study - she has not that easy access in US to the university (besides the costs in US). So basically it is due to my wife - me alone won't be here in Peru - no way. I know better places :oops:
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby sbaustin » Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:06 pm

So I guess you can illegally spy on Americans while illegally working in Peru. Sounds like a nice story.
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby gerard » Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:34 pm

Well, I'm not an accountant and have no big understanding of the laws but here's my 2c.

If you're married to a Peruvian then there's no reason you can't get a CE and be here legally. If the job you're talking about means you'd be employed by an overseas agency who'd let you perform your work here in Peru then I don't think there's an issue with that. I work for a UK company who let me base myself here even though none of my actual work has anything to do with Peru.

We simply went to SUNAT and asked them how to arrange my tax affairs and they were happy to explain - there was no fuss or bribes - indeed quite the opposite as the first comment we got was why was I even asking as really they'd have no way of ever knowing!

After some discussion and consultation with other staff they decided there was a category for me so they issued me a RUC and told me I'd have to pay tax on an annual basis based on my earnings over the calendar year. So in January my wife goes to their web site and enters all my earnings less deductions into their forms on-line, it tells us what to pay and we pay it electronically.

Overall I pay about the same amount as I'd pay in the UK - I'd imagine it wouldn't be that different to the US apart from you might also be liable for US tax so there might be a double whammy.

I'd just ask your US employer to pay you directly into a US bank based on hours billed, keep a clear record of it all, and then use that figure to work out your Peru tax. SUNAT told us we could deduct things like pension payments and only declare the net figure, but that doesn't mean another SUNAT wouldn't tell you something different.

We used the office in downtown - Miraflores or SI might have better advice as they probably deal with more expats. I didn't get the impression anyone we spoke to really knew - they spent quite a while debating it between themselves. Just head to office, take a ticket and ask.
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby kuranaga » Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:29 pm

sbaustin wrote:So I guess you can illegally spy on Americans while illegally working in Peru. Sounds like a nice story.


they DO nasty things but I promise I won't spy on Americans... at some time in your life you must know on which side you are :roll:
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby fanning » Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:34 pm

Wow, thank God you don't spy on Americans. The same as Obama said.. Only spy on non-Americans, like that doesn't mean like the rest of the world. You happen to write on a Peruvian expat forum, not necessarily exclusively filled with USA citizens.
Europe also didn't seem to pleased about that comment of Obama.
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby kuranaga » Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:35 pm

@fanning

I still cannot believe what you say... if I should ever take them for serious, THEY MUST calculate you the amount to pay, they MUST give you a sum to pay and a date for the payment. This is how it works in any NORMAL country. If this is really like you say, that I am responsible to calculate the amount myself and then go to the bank and send them the money, then I just calculate it to be 0 - got it?

in any normal country you declare and _they_ calculate, so you pay what they ask you to pay, it is not your responsability to calculate anything. I have no skills to calculate... I left school when I was 10 years old and I have no clue how to calculate even 2+3, got it? Moreover I have dyslexia :mrgreen:
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby kuranaga » Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:37 pm

fanning wrote:Wow, thank God you don't spy on Americans. The same as Obama said.. Only spy on non-Americans, like that doesn't mean like the rest of the world. You happen to write on a Peruvian expat forum, not necessarily exclusively filled with USA citizens.
Europe also didn't seem to pleased about that comment of Obama.


they do it only at these bad guys with long beards, YOU KNOW! :roll:
anyway if you buy any US technological product, you can be 99% sure there is NSA inside (the one or the other way...)
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby Sergio Bernales » Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:50 pm

Kuranga, what's your native language?
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby kuranaga » Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:53 pm

before I forget, one detail: I have two passports on different names (different nationalities), so there is no way for them to find out that I live here, if I come & leave - I won't pass more than 183 days on any of the passports. Would they ever assume I am taxable in Peru? Even if they investigate data from migraciones they won't see more than 183 days which seems to be the rule in Peru...

(the different names are not due to NSA, just naturalized before in another country and they changed my name pretty much :shock: so two passports, two passport numbers, two names, two nationalities) - you may think I am kidding but I am not my life is quite annoying with that.... Imagine now my wife, she is not married with me in one of my "versions" :shock: :shock:
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby fanning » Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:00 pm

kuranaga wrote:@fanning

I still cannot believe what you say... if I should ever take them for serious, THEY MUST calculate you the amount to pay, they MUST give you a sum to pay and a date for the payment. This is how it works in any NORMAL country. If this is really like you say, that I am responsible to calculate the amount myself and then go to the bank and send them the money, then I just calculate it to be 0 - got it?

in any normal country you declare and _they_ calculate, so you pay what they ask you to pay, it is not your responsability to calculate anything. I have no skills to calculate... I left school when I was 10 years old and I have no clue how to calculate even 2+3, got it? Moreover I have dyslexia :mrgreen:

Sorry, but that is the way it is. If you work for a Peruvian company, then the salary administration will calculate it, but again, using the knowledge that they have. If they are wrong, then at least the company has to fix it and pay the multas. But if you are an independent ( or have income outside Peru, which for the taxsystem is like independent, as a Peruvian employer cannot calculate and pay the correct amount ) you must calculate it yourself.
You can find on the Sunat site the dates before you must declare, and also the interest tables in case you pay to late.
If you decide to declare 0, and in reality it is another amount, you committed fraud, and will get even bigger multas.
How you think a company pays his taxes ? They add up all of their compras and ventas, and calculate how much IGV they should pay, and based on their sales they pay an advance on company tax. Those amounts are not calculated by Sunat, but by the company. In the end a company has to do their administration, not Sunat. Sunat will only verify if all taxes are paid properly. I suppose that is how it works in any country ?

Well maybe in the USA, the NSA has already all the records of your income, sales, compras etc, and just sends a tax bill the end of the month .. :mrgreen:
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby kuranaga » Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:25 am

@fanning: OK but this is COMPANY, they are supposed to have accounting department etc. moreover a company usually pays more different taxes and usually pays a kind of "in advance tax" - stuff you are not supposed to do as individual.

sorry but everywhere in the world where I was, you are supposed to declare and they calculate the amount and give you payment instruction + amount + date. Never heard about what you are saying. Stuff cannot be that bad in Peru :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby fanning » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:37 pm

So did you download the PDT mentioned ?
And since when independent worker don't pay a tax in advance ? You just get a bruto income, and on the end of the year the government magically calculates your income tax, without providing any additional information ?
You can find all information on http://www.sunat.gob.pe, like interest tables, payment tables, pdt tables, forms, etc.
If you like, you could demand your employer to figure it all out, but as it is foreign income you didn't declare to the Peruvian Sunat, I don't see any other solution than to follow Peruvian tax law. Whether you like it or not, whether it is more complicated or not than USA tax law.
We just found out on the forum, that to import some coffee to the USA, you need to understand a 211 page USA tax form . So much for easy USA forms. The US resident decided it was easier to use coffee mules, to pass customs undetected, with a bullshot story it was for personal use ..
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby kuranaga » Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:35 am

gerard wrote:After some discussion and consultation with other staff they decided there was a category for me so they issued me a RUC and told me I'd have to pay tax on an annual basis based on my earnings over the calendar year. So in January my wife goes to their web site and enters all my earnings less deductions into their forms on-line, it tells us what to pay and we pay it electronically.


@gerald: did you do it already or are you waiting for your first year? Before you really do it, you won't know if they accept it.

Do you also have to pay AFP (that thing they changed recently)?

@fanning: he says that he declares and then they tell him how much to pay! It contradicts what you say! :evil: :evil:
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby gerard » Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:08 pm

I've done it several times now. I read Fanning's messages as basically saying the same thing - you work out yourself how much you owe using the formulas SUNAT provide. You can do this manually, or you can do it by their web site by entering your details and letting it make the calculations.

I don't currently have an AFP, although I probably should.
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby tupacperu » Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:33 am

Requires that you are a US Resident, but with internet phone and web (Peru). Should not be and issue.
https://www.leapforceathome.com/qrp/pub ... FA40E8D1A8
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby tupacperu » Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:38 am

Alan wrote:
kuranaga wrote:Hi

what would be the official way to work for foreign company in Peru? A company that has no offices in Peru (e.g. only in US) and wants to hire me? It won't be work for receipts but a regular contract (so I do not bill them for doing some work units, e.g. this month I do X hours and bill them XX, next month I do Y hours and bill them YY, but rather a fixed term contract).

We were thinking about working for recibos but this is not really what the contract would be about. I am afraid when I would do it for recibos, they would ask me to pay VAT or exportation charges or so... who knows. Afraid getting lost in lawless Peru... :shock:

Anybody doing that?

On the other hand if my money is wired onto account in US, would they ever know in Peru? :?


Kind of ironic that you talk about getting lost in lawless Peru, then go on to ask whether you should just work under the table here.

Work and tax legislation is not lawless at all, though it is subject to change and can be complicated at first. Why not consult an accountant? It's not that expensive and it will save you a lot of heartache down the road. Even better, talk to two accountants to make sure they coincide. If you can, ask them to give you the reference to the legislation that backs up the advice they are giving you.

Best of luck.


Any Expat/resident in Peru is liable for tax on worldwide income. I would not be surprised if SUNAT starts going after tax residents (those who work and overstay their visa and those that work under the table and pay taxes in their home country). SUNAT lately is scrambling for ways to fill it coffers and boost the sagging economy.
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby kuranaga » Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:26 pm

@gerard

where is the page to do the calculations?
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby kuranaga » Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:30 pm

tupacperu wrote:Any Expat/resident in Peru is liable for tax on worldwide income. I would not be surprised if SUNAT starts going after tax residents (those who work and overstay their visa and those that work under the table and pay taxes in their home country). SUNAT lately is scrambling for ways to fill it coffers and boost the sagging economy.


LOL and you think taking more money from the people will boost the economy :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

you can only boost the economy by lowering the taxes on income that's a fact (and add HUGE taxes on capital income & wealth).
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby BellbottomBlues » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:58 pm

What a strange thread. I am in a position to know that anyone who works for NSA or plans to, would never announce such on a public board.


Maybe INSCOP will be along soon to weight in on this thread.


BBB
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Re: How to work for foreign company?

Postby alan » Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:19 pm

BellbottomBlues wrote:What a strange thread. I am in a position to know that anyone who works for NSA or plans to, would never announce such on a public board.


Maybe INSCOP will be along soon to weight in on this thread.


BBB


I was thinking the same thing myself. Troll alert.

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