Check-in FAIL for One World europe flights

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jimuazu
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Check-in FAIL for One World europe flights

Postby jimuazu » Fri May 15, 2015 4:35 pm

One World being LAN + BA + Iberia, as far as Peru-Europe flights are concerned. This always used to work -- you'd get a code-sharing flight with one of the other airlines and you could check in the whole thing online and reserve all your seats. But on my recent trip it didn't work at all.

Going out, it was LAN--Iberia--Iberia, and I was unable to choose the Iberia seats (so I was put at the back). I tried on LAN.com, on Iberia.com, on the phone to Iberia, at the LAN desk in Arequipa and at the Iberia desk in Lima. Nobody could help me.

Coming back, it is BA--LAN--LAN. I am unable to choose seats for either of the LAN flights online, trying BA.com and LAN.com. I'll try the desks in London and Madrid on the way to see if they can do anything for me.

This always used to work. Does anyone know what has suddenly gone wrong with the One World system?

I will obviously heavily favour Avianca now, via Colombia, if the price is reasonable. (I flew with them last year and it all seemed efficient and modern.)


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Re: Check-in FAIL for One World europe flights

Postby teamoperu » Sat May 16, 2015 1:39 am

Use Avianca for better seat selection? Good luck with that, AV doesn't allow seat selection until T-24.

Nothing broken with OneWorld. Any number of reasons you are having trouble. I'm guessing your fare class doesn't allow preselection of seats. But would have nothing to do with being codeshare. What reason did they give when you called?

For the LAN flights simply call them with your LAN reservation code and they will do it – if the fare class allows it, sounds like it doesn't.

You will need the reservation code of the airline for the segment you are flying, each airline's flights has a different reservation code.

If you want to pm me with your electonic ticketing information I could try to be more helpful. Or here as a learning.
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Re: Check-in FAIL for One World europe flights

Postby jimuazu » Sat May 16, 2015 2:21 am

I would be very happy with T-24h seat selection -- I've always got an adequate seat that way previously (over 9 years of travelling the various London-Peru routes).

As I said, I called Iberia, and they said that they could do nothing because it was already within the 24-hour window and I had to do it online or through LAN at the airport. Online, Iberia.com rejected my code with either Lima or Arequipa as the origin (Arequipa isn't in their list, and it said "Incorrect origin airport" if I put in Lima), although the code worked fine for checkmytrip. LAN.com just showed it as a flight which couldn't do seat allocation through their website (I forget the exact wording) for the Iberia parts. The LAN girl at the airport was helpful and tried to reallocate my seat for the Iberia parts but her computer wouldn't let her.

Same on the way back. BA.com let me choose a seat for the BA segment, but then showed "Can't change it because it is a different airline" (or something similar) for the LAN parts. LAN.com doesn't let me change the seats because check-in is through BA (first segment). I will try at the airport this afternoon.

I was wondering whether LAN and Iberia/BA are no longer successfully cooperating for some reason. Maybe there have been technical changes. I've flown mixed LAN/BA flights before without any trouble like this. The Iberia guy on the phone suggested it was the travel agent's fault for not booking Iberia flights all the way through (from Arequipa? ... yeah, right)
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Re: Check-in FAIL for One World europe flights

Postby teamoperu » Sat May 16, 2015 6:45 am

Yes, they ay the weirdest things just to make you go away.

For the return, you got your BA seats. Now just go to lan.com with your code and do check in T-48 and during that check in you will select yours seats.
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Re: Check-in FAIL for One World europe flights

Postby Danny55 » Sat May 16, 2015 7:48 am

I had a similiar problem this year with Lan / Iberia. We took a flight from France to Madrid to Lima - could not check in for the Madrid even though it was Iberia + Lan. In Madrid we had to leave the security zone and go to the baggage check in just to get the tickets. I could not select any seats online - every number I called at Iberia / Lan beforehand gave me different and confusing information about the check in procedure.
I was not impressed and will probably us Air France / KLM again in the future.
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Re: Check-in FAIL for One World europe flights

Postby fanning » Sat May 16, 2015 10:59 pm

I had the same problem in 2010. i booked the flight through Iberia, but it was actually a LAN flight. I was unable to check in and select a seat.
So they still didn't fix that.
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Re: Check-in FAIL for One World europe flights

Postby teamoperu » Sun May 17, 2015 5:04 am

One possible solution is to use www.finnair.com before OLCI opens.
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Re: Check-in FAIL for One World europe flights

Postby chelsearob77 » Sun May 17, 2015 3:32 pm

I currently also have an issue with my scheduled flights out of Peru.

On the 2nd of June I will be leaving Peru with my family to go to work and live in Ireland, So I booked our flights a couple of months back with an online booking company called Tripsta for our trip from Lima (via Madrid) to Dublin.

We will be flying out of Peru with LAN Airlines first than have a connecting flight with Aer Lingus which will take us to Dublin, anyway I made some enquiries with both airlines as to whether our checked luggage from our LAN flight would be transferred directly onto our connecting Aer Lingus flight? or would we have to retrieve the luggage ourselves and check them in onto our connecting Aer Lingus flight to Dublin?

Both airlines response was: Aer Lingus and LAN Airlines aren't partner airlines so don't have a baggage handling agreement with one another, so we would be required to collect and check our luggage in ourselves at Madrid airport!
which is now going to be a bit of a hassle, as my Peruvian wife only has an Irish entry visa, so can't pass through immigration control at Madrid airport to collect our luggage with me! (I'll now have to do this alone while she stays airside in the international area of Madrid airport with our 4 and 2 year olds kids)

But the biggest hassle we could encounter is Aer Lingus have since informed me that Tripsta did not book any checked luggage for us for our flight with them! (only hand luggage is permitted)

The only way Aer Lingus will board our luggage is if we pay them at the baggage check in counter €50 to €60 for each of our suitcases! 8 X €50 = €400 (8 X €60 = €480)!!!!

LAN Airlines confirmed we have a checked baggage allowance with them for 2 pieces of checked luggage at 23kg each.

I do however have an Booking Confirmation, Flight Confirmation and E-Ticket issued to myself by Tripsta showing our journey from Lima to Dublin and in the baggage allowance information section it states: 2 pieces of checked baggage per passenger!


I have since got in contact with Tripsta demanding they correct this error on their part!
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Re: Check-in FAIL for One World europe flights

Postby teamoperu » Sun May 17, 2015 3:45 pm

A couple of thoughts. You probably would have to pick up your luggage at your first international stop when going zone to zone anyway. But u might want to check if you can just transfer it airside and stay airside.

The luggage thing sounds wierd... especially when your ticket (the contract) states you have an allowance. Bet you win that one.

A third consideration, most silly agents do not know, is the significant carrier rule which states the luggage rules of the first international segment continues for subsequent segments if on one ticket.
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Re: Check-in FAIL for One World europe flights

Postby chelsearob77 » Sun May 17, 2015 4:08 pm

teamoperu wrote:A couple of thoughts. You probably would have to pick up your luggage at your first international stop when going zone to zone anyway. But u might want to check if you can just transfer it airside and stay airside.



Normally on a trip that is booked as one trip the luggage would go straight through! just not so in this case as LAN and Aer Lingus aren't partner airlines, so no baggage handling agreement between the two airlines.

My wife will stay airside with the kids while I go alone to collect and checked our bags onto our connecting flight.
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Re: Check-in FAIL for One World europe flights

Postby jimuazu » Sun May 17, 2015 4:21 pm

Well, I'm back. Yes, I tried all the possibilities online. LAN.com didn't let me choose the seats for my LAN flights, I guess because BA was supposed to be in charge of that, the first leg being with BA.

The LAN connections desk in Madrid couldn't get me a better seat for the Lima flight (it was only 1.5 hours before the flight so no surprise), but they did get me a better seat for the Arequipa flight, thankfully. (I needed to join my wife who was travelling from Lima, to help out with the children.)

I asked about why I couldn't do it online, and he said I should have been able to, and he didn't know why I couldn't.

I guess we could be generous and hope that they were just having some temporary computer problems, although I will be more cautious next time and prefer flights with the first two or three legs with the same actual airline (not a code-share). Once burned ...
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Re: Check-in FAIL for One World europe flights

Postby jimuazu » Sun May 17, 2015 4:32 pm

Re the AerLingus thing -- is this a budget airline? Or a budget route for that airline? Budget airlines always seem to work on their own system, with extra for any non-hand luggage. It might be better to consider abandoning the AerLingus tickets and use some other budget airline if the luggage cost is too high. I did Lima-London once via some dirt-cheap spanish airline (now collapsed, I believe) and EasyJet. Obviously there was no luggage connection in this case either, but I wasn't expecting one.

However in my case LAN and BA and Iberia are all part of One World -- they are supposed to work together. Most of these flights are even code-shared, i.e. you fly on an IB flight number even though it is actually LAN, or vice versa.

Re AerLingus, will you be able to check in all the luggage without all the passengers present? They need you to show passports/etc, don't they? Or will you check it all through on your own name? (I guess that should work.)

Or if it was on a credit card maybe you can get a refund for the whole thing from the travel agent, because it sounds like they did not make everything clear (at the very least).
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Re: Check-in FAIL for One World europe flights

Postby jimuazu » Sun May 17, 2015 4:40 pm

teamoperu wrote:A third consideration, most silly agents do not know, is the significant carrier rule which states the luggage rules of the first international segment continues for subsequent segments if on one ticket.


It might not necessarily be all on one ticket. It is worth checking with www.checkmytrip.com to see if it registers there as a single ticket. If it is a budget airline my guess is that it won't. If it is not a single ticket then as I understand it, there is no protection on the second leg if the first plane is late, i.e. if you miss the second flight, no-one has a responsibility to find you another flight. (Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone who knows more.)
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Re: Check-in FAIL for One World europe flights

Postby teamoperu » Sun May 17, 2015 6:24 pm

Just a technicality, just for info, but checking bags through can be done between alliances and with airlines outside any alliance, It all depends if there is an interline agreement in place. If there is, can be done. For example, have interlined bags with LAN (OneWorld) connecting to Air Canada (Star Alliance).

So connections desk checked you in, you just couldn't get seats for one of the flights. A little uncommon, but not unheard of. You could do so for the ARQ leg though, so success there. Many reasons, maybe the ticket was discount and did not allow it, maybe the flight is oversold, maybe... The oversold situation is not unusual and by trying to get a better seat 1.5 hours puts you in a bad situation. I always recommend folks check in at opening of check in window (LAN T-48, Iberia T-36, AA T-24 etc.) which avoids this problem.

The “other airline” is never responsible for seat assigment, it is the operating carrier.

I suspect being codeshare has nothing to do with your problems.

“there is no protection on the second leg if the first plane is late”. Generally, this is true, with exceptions. For example, AA has a policy to accomodate you on separate tickets if the other ticket is OneWorld.

Isn't airline travel fun :roll: Keep us informed, I am enjoying this from behind my keyboard instead of gritting my teeth at incompetent counter agents who will give you any story just to avoid a bit of work. :)
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Re: Check-in FAIL for One World europe flights

Postby fanning » Sun May 17, 2015 11:01 pm

Just a thought, about the Aer Lingus and staying airside. The Lan flight probably arrives at terminal 4 or 4S and Aer Lingus leaves from Terminal 1. They are physically apart for like 5 Km, and you have to take a bus to transfer between them.

Actually we took a similar flight in 2010, arriving with a LAN flight ( which I couldn't select the seats, as this thread is about .. ) and continuing with a Easy Jet flight to AMS. We had to pick up out luggage in Terminal 4 / 4S, go through immigration, hurry to Terminal 1, to checkin our bags. ( Which were prebooked on the EasyJet website, as that was way cheaper as you are finding out the hard way ). And all that with only 1.5 hour layover. It was a risk, as we knew that if we would miss the flight, it would be our responsibility as they were just two different reservations.
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Re: Check-in FAIL for One World europe flights

Postby teamoperu » Mon May 18, 2015 5:03 am

Just a thought, about the Aer Lingus and staying airside, me too. If his bags are not tagged all the way to the destination then a connection belt airside is irrelevant. :cry:

(They can tag the bags all the way if they do it by hand but that is a fight almost not winnable.)
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Re: Check-in FAIL for One World europe flights

Postby jimuazu » Mon May 18, 2015 6:43 am

teamoperu wrote:So connections desk checked you in, you just couldn't get seats for one of the flights. A little uncommon, but not unheard of.


No, I was already checked in through the BA site (with boarding cards all the way through), just without being able to select my seats for the two flights with LAN.

teamoperu wrote:I always recommend folks check in at opening of check in window (LAN T-48, Iberia T-36, AA T-24 etc.) which avoids this problem.


I tried that. Coming back, the LAN site didn't let me do it (it seems) because the initial segment was with BA. Similarly in reverse, the Iberia site didn't let me do seat selection going out (it seems) because the initial segment was with LAN.

teamoperu wrote:The “other airline” is never responsible for seat assigment, it is the operating carrier.


Maybe it is different in Europe? Or different if it is within an alliance? But whichever way you look at it, they failed to give me the means to change my seat. From previous experience I'd have expected the initial checkin online to allow me to select all of my seats, but really I am not fussy.

teamoperu wrote:“there is no protection on the second leg if the first plane is late”. Generally, this is true, with exceptions. For example, AA has a policy to accomodate you on separate tickets if the other ticket is OneWorld.


No, I said there is no protection if it is two different tickets. If it is one ticket, I believe they have a responsibility to get you to your destination. However, this may be European law rather than global; I'm not sure. For example in Christmas 2009 (or was it 2010?) we flew out of London with BA, and due to the chaos due to ice at Heathrow we missed our connection with LAN to Lima. So they (BA) put us up in Madrid overnight and found us another flight.
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Re: Check-in FAIL for One World europe flights

Postby Danny55 » Mon May 18, 2015 7:13 am

chelsearob77 wrote:
My wife will stay airside with the kids while I go alone to collect and checked our bags onto our connecting flight.


Just a thought - how will your wife and kids checkin for the Are Lingus flight? Is it online, and do you need to present identification documentation at Madrid so that they confirm them as being on the flight?

When we flew via Madrid to Lima, our baggage got sent through but we still had to leave the security side to collect our tickets for the LAN flight - they had to see us with our passports.
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Re: Check-in FAIL for One World europe flights

Postby teamoperu » Mon May 18, 2015 7:44 am

Danny55 wrote:
chelsearob77 wrote:
My wife will stay airside with the kids while I go alone to collect and checked our bags onto our connecting flight.


Just a thought - how will your wife and kids checkin for the Are Lingus flight? Is it online, and do you need to present identification documentation at Madrid so that they confirm them as being on the flight?

When we flew via Madrid to Lima, our baggage got sent through but we still had to leave the security side to collect our tickets for the LAN flight - they had to see us with our passports.


Great point. Another wild card in the equation.
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Re: Check-in FAIL for One World europe flights

Postby teamoperu » Mon May 18, 2015 7:53 am

I think we are having a failure to communicate well. On separate tickets generally you are not protected, but there are cases (my AA example) where you are. Doesn't matter to me.

I reviewed my posts and there is nothing incorrect in them, even some helpful comments, I hope. Like the agent said to you, you should have been able to do it. I doubt it is a codeshare problem. Nor the order of your segments on different airlines. Maybe a website fail, an over book situation, maybe... lots of reasons. But the orperating carrier is responsible for seat assigments and if you couldn't do it on web check in, just call and they will do it by phone. There was solution offered.
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Re: Check-in FAIL for One World europe flights

Postby jimuazu » Mon May 18, 2015 9:48 am

teamoperu wrote:I think we are having a failure to communicate well. [...] But the orperating carrier is responsible for seat assigments and if you couldn't do it on web check in, just call and they will do it by phone. There was solution offered.


Yes, I appreciate the suggestions, but as I mentioned, I'd already tried all those possibilities -- including calling the operating airline -- without any success.

“In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.” --Einstein (who obviously knew a thing or two about airlines).

Re the single/double ticket thing -- I wasn't disagreeing with you, just pointing out that it might have been two tickets and in that case the single-ticket rules don't apply, especially if there is a budget airline involved. I just hope the family involved manages to get it all sorted out in time.
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Re: Check-in FAIL for One World europe flights

Postby chelsearob77 » Mon May 18, 2015 10:33 am

Danny55 wrote:
chelsearob77 wrote:
My wife will stay airside with the kids while I go alone to collect and checked our bags onto our connecting flight.


Just a thought - how will your wife and kids checkin for the Are Lingus flight? Is it online, and do you need to present identification documentation at Madrid so that they confirm them as being on the flight?

When we flew via Madrid to Lima, our baggage got sent through but we still had to leave the security side to collect our tickets for the LAN flight - they had to see us with our passports.


Yes Aer Lingus do have an online check in facility which opens 30 hours before our Aer Lingus flight leaves Madrid:

http://www.aerlingus.com/travelinformation/knowbeforeyoufly/check-in/web-check-in/#
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Re: Check-in FAIL for One World europe flights

Postby teamoperu » Mon May 18, 2015 10:42 am

Super, just some further thoughts then, for info.

When you buy a ticket, depending on the ticket fare code rules (1) you can choose a seat; (2) the computer assigns a seat by software rules (back to front, front to back, considering weight distribution and blocked seats) or (3) no seat is assigned until OLCI occurs. The later may kick in if it is an oversold situation and more commonly the ticket doesn't allow it. At OLCI you can choose or change a seat unless there is a website or other problem which then you call the airline to get a seat (the earlier the better). This holds until the flight is shifted to airport and then gate control. If it is under airport control (normally the day of or many hours before cut off) another carrier, indeed the telephone help line, can do little (but they can do something if not lazy). Arguing with BA over seat assigments for a LAN flight is futile, the operating carrier airport controls seats (logically so) though with open software it can and should be seamless. Thats in general, many complications and work arounds are possible.

An interesting perspective is that airlines are now charging for preferred seats before airport control (some even then) – it is in their financial interest to ensure online seat selection works.

Fun Fact: I have gone to the gate with a Boarding Pass that states "No Seat Assigned" because they are oversold and hoping someone is a no show, otherwise I will be denied boarding.
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Re: Check-in FAIL for One World europe flights

Postby teamoperu » Mon May 18, 2015 10:56 am

chelsearob77 wrote:
Danny55 wrote:
chelsearob77 wrote:
My wife will stay airside with the kids while I go alone to collect and checked our bags onto our connecting flight.


Just a thought - how will your wife and kids checkin for the Are Lingus flight? Is it online, and do you need to present identification documentation at Madrid so that they confirm them as being on the flight?

When we flew via Madrid to Lima, our baggage got sent through but we still had to leave the security side to collect our tickets for the LAN flight - they had to see us with our passports.


Yes Aer Lingus do have an online check in facility which opens 30 hours before our Aer Lingus flight leaves Madrid:

http://www.aerlingus.com/travelinformation/knowbeforeyoufly/check-in/web-check-in/#


Doesn't negate his point. Your Boarding Pass may say “Doc Check” if an international check for passport is required... but that can be done at the gate. (At least for SA and NA, Europe may be different.)

Hope I am not overstepping my bounds here?

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