married name change

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mulcahen
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married name change

Postby mulcahen » Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:58 pm

hello. We have just been registering our UK marriage with peruvian consul in London and at the same time changing her dni and passport My peruvian wife thought she would be able to keep her fathers surname and then add the de of mine

eg marge simpson bush meets homer blair and becomes marge simpson de blair. We were told that no longer is allowed and she has had to change it to marge simpson bush de blair. ( I think she could have also stayed just plain marge simpson bush)/

Is this correct as far as anynone is aware. Makes for a very long winded name

thanks


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Chiclayo gringo
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Postby Chiclayo gringo » Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:35 pm

You were given the correct info. My wife just went through the name change with her DNI and passport. She now has a name that is so long I fall asleep before I can finish saying it.

Tom
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Postby tupacperu » Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:48 pm

That is the same here.

Juana Indalecia Aguirre Mendoza de Rollins

(I like the de part - belonging to me, but some how my lastname being last kind of waters things down). Some how when printing out airline tickets etc....... my name get truncated :-(
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Postby mulcahen » Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:24 pm

thanks for the confirmation
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Postby tomsax » Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:28 pm

I don't think my wife ever changed her DNI after she got married. Should she do so? Or it it just if she wants to change her name?

My wife never wanted to be a de of anyone and who can blame her!
Tom
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Postby naturegirl » Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:01 pm

that's ridiculous, when did they change the law? So now, married women have THREE last names? What's the purpose of doing that?
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Postby Chiclayo gringo » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:18 pm

We were told by immigration this last August that it was necessary for my wife to change her DNI to her married name in order to apply for my “call of the family” visa. She wanted to drop one of her last names but was told that a “recent change in the law” prohibited her from doing that. I have no idea why or when the law changed.

Tom
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Postby singlefather » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:54 pm

Tim,

I have to ask this question.. Does she have "Juana Indalecia Aguirre Mendoza de Rollins" on her Credit card ? wow that is a long name..

How about you Tom does your wife have her whole name on a credit card ?

Jeff


..
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Postby Chiclayo gringo » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:20 pm

My wife has her American married name (first, middle and last minus the "de")on the credit card, which was issued in the states. So far she has not been denied credit card purchases in Peru even though the name on the credit card and her DNI don’t exactly match, but I’ll bet the day will come.

Tom
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Postby fanning » Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:44 pm

We got married more than 10 years ago, and even in that time it was like that. She has her fathers name, mothersname de 'my name'

It got even funnier when she applied for the Dutch nationality. For Holland her Maiden name was Rodriguez Martinez de Holandia , so by Dutch law her new Dutch name would be
Holandia - Rodriguez Martinez de Holandia .
We had to ask formally to the Queen of Holland that she please just would be Holandia - Rodriguez . ( And the Queen said yes .. )
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Postby curlyguy18 » Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:18 am

fanning wrote:We got married more than 10 years ago, and even in that time it was like that. She has her fathers name, mothersname de 'my name'

It got even funnier when she applied for the Dutch nationality. For Holland her Maiden name was Rodriguez Martinez de Holandia , so by Dutch law her new Dutch name would be
Holandia - Rodriguez Martinez de Holandia .
We had to ask formally to the Queen of Holland that she please just would be Holandia - Rodriguez . ( And the Queen said yes .. )

That's funny!
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Postby naturegirl » Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:19 pm

"Juana Indalecia Aguirre Mendoza de Rollins"

HOw did she have THREE last names to start with?

I ¿ve got a student with four it's like this
Juan Smith Brown Green-Black

Are you guys sure it's like that? My husband worked for RENIEC and most of his friends are still there and they say it's optional to keep your mother's last name.
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Postby markr » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:02 pm

Maybe all this name changing relates to what Chiclayo Gringo mentioned, that being a recent change in the law in August of this year.
Prior to getting married in May 08 my wife had to get a new DNI because her old one didn´t have one of her many names on it, hence it was illegal for the purpose of getting married.
After we got married and started to go through the process of getting my residents visa and then carnet she had to get yet another DNI using the term "de" but was given the option of having either her name or mine on the document. She chose to keep her origional surname and the process went ahead without any problems and I now have my carnet.
The big joke is that her DNI expires next year and on niether of the two occasions that she had to get replacements over a 4 week period did RENIEC take the opportunity of issuing a new full term card, just a modified version with the old photograph of a woman I don´t even recognise, so next year we will yet pump another few Soles into the system.
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Postby sonia » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:38 pm

Yes, the US and Peru do have very different ideas on what is a woman's full legal name!

Here in the US, I have a:
first name + my
middle name (which I chose to be the same as my apellido paterno in Peru) + my
last name (which is my husband's last name, which I took after marriage)

When I return to Peru, I will have a:
first name + my
middle name, or as Peruvians like to say, segundo nombre + my
apellido paterno + my
apellido materno +
the little word "de" (I like to think its use is just a longtime custom and doesn't mean I "belong" to my husband!!) + my
apellido de casada.

I would confuse everyone in the States if I tried to use my full Peruvian name here but it will be nice to use it all again back in Peru. Using anything less makes me often feel something is missing.

Just because it may be interesting to see worldwide differences, could anyone who has lived on other continents describe how names change (or don't) in other cultures when women marry?
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Postby mammalu » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:44 pm

I simplified my life.

I removed/modified my first name in the USA: I was Maria de XXXXXX (like many girls, born in a catholic family). So I became Maria in my naturalization docs. Then I got married and took my husbands last name.

My DNI does not match at all with my 'new' names: first or last :D . I will have to take care of it next year. Hope it does not mean I have to be Maria de xxxxx de xxxxx (double whammy).
Stand with anybody that stands RIGHT. Stand with him while he is right and PART with him when he goes wrong." ! Abraham Lincoln
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Postby tupacperu » Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:36 pm

Singlefather, her american credit card just has first middle and (my lastname). Her account in Peru has her maiden name (she has little money there and uses the atm mostly.
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Postby tupacperu » Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:42 pm

When my wife is asked her name in Peru she uses Juana Aguirre , but I chime in with the "De Rollins" :-). Many times the person waiting on us chuckles.
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Postby naturegirl » Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:04 pm

markr wrote:After we got married and started to go through the process of getting my residents visa and then carnet she had to get yet another DNI using the term "de" but was given the option of having either her name or mine on the document. She chose to keep her origional surname and the process went ahead without any problems and I now have my carnet.


SO she just has her father's surname plus the "de" and your surname?

It's easier in BRasil, where they man takes the woman's last name. Speaking for Asia, they can't be bothered and don't change their names upon marriage.
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Postby rgamarra » Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:27 pm

Sometimes in Peru they use my middle name like a last name. It's really annoying.

on my CE I only use one last name (my husband's) b/c the majority of my documents are with my married name.

As for my children, omg, it is such a mess with their U.S. documentation!

My oldest daughter's S.S. Card only has my maiden name, Her passport has my maiden name PLUS my husband's last name!

My youngest has TWO last names on her S.S. card and only ONE last name on her passport!

Oh and changing a U.S. document, especially an S.S. card is nearly impossible! Their requirements drive me mad! :roll: :roll: :roll:

One day I'll manage to get it all straightened out.
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Postby naturegirl » Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:24 pm

rgamarra wrote:As for my children, omg, it is such a mess with their U.S. documentation!
My oldest daughter's S.S. Card only has my maiden name, Her passport has my maiden name PLUS my husband's last name!
My youngest has TWO last names on her S.S. card and only ONE last name on her passport!
Oh and changing a U.S. document, especially an S.S. card is nearly impossible! Their requirements drive me mad! :roll: :roll: :roll:
One day I'll manage to get it all straightened out.


Do it now while they're young, it'll only get harder, trust me, I'm paying for my mom's mistake for not fixing her docs. And it's gotten to the point where the government has said she's not the same person as the one on the docs.

I don't get how your daughters' things don't match. To get a passport, you have to show the SS card.
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Postby sonia » Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:26 pm

Rgamarra,

Like Naturegirl, I also recommend that you start the process to get the names corrected on your daughters' documents as soon as possible! You have to do it while you can; imagine if something should happen and you are no longer able to help them with this!
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Postby markr » Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:01 am

naturegirl wrote:
markr wrote:After we got married and started to go through the process of getting my residents visa and then carnet she had to get yet another DNI using the term "de" but was given the option of having either her name or mine on the document. She chose to keep her origional surname and the process went ahead without any problems and I now have my carnet.


SO she just has her father's surname plus the "de" and your surname?

It's easier in BRasil, where they man takes the woman's last name. Speaking for Asia, they can't be bothered and don't change their names upon marriage.[/quote
Forgive me the term De doesn´t appear on my wifes new DNI, her name remains as it has always been but just the marital status has changed from single to married.
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Postby tupacperu » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:23 am

markr wrote:
naturegirl wrote:
markr wrote:After we got married and started to go through the process of getting my residents visa and then carnet she had to get yet another DNI using the term "de" but was given the option of having either her name or mine on the document. She chose to keep her origional surname and the process went ahead without any problems and I now have my carnet.


SO she just has her father's surname plus the "de" and your surname?

It's easier in BRasil, where they man takes the woman's last name. Speaking for Asia, they can't be bothered and don't change their names upon marriage.[/quote
Forgive me the term De doesn´t appear on my wifes new DNI, her name remains as it has always been but just the marital status has changed from single to married.




Funny, I have male friends who married Brazilians in Brazil and the names have not changed. Or at least they were too macho to say so. :-).

So, if a guy wants to change his ID and disappear, he can marry a Brazilian woman?
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Postby tupacperu » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:28 am

Wow!!! It is true in the Portuguese World

Wiki:

Portuguese-speaking world
In general, the traditions followed in countries like Portugal, Brazil and Angola are similar to the ones of Spain. Differing from Spanish tradition, usually the mother's surname comes first, followed by the father's surname. A woman may adopt her husband's surname(s), but nevertheless she always keeps her birth names - since 1977, a husband can also adopt his wife's surname. When this happens, usually both spouses change their name after marriage.

The custom of a woman changing her name upon marriage was not a Portuguese tradition. It spread in the late 19th century in the upper classes, under French influence, and in the 20th century, particularly during the Estado Novo, it became socially almost obligatory. Nowadays, fewer women adopt, even officially, their husbands' names, and among those who do so officially, it is quite common not to use it either in their professional or informal life.
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Postby anuta » Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:50 pm

sonia wrote:Just because it may be interesting to see worldwide differences, could anyone who has lived on other continents describe how names change (or don't) in other cultures when women marry?


In Quebec (Canada), women don't change their name when they get married. If one of the spouses decides to change the name upon marriage, they have to ask for a permission just like people who wish to change their names for other reasons.I think that at least one of our official ID cards only allows the maiden name, even for the older women who did take their husbands names in the 50-60s.

Anyways, I was against this tradition of women changing their last name since childhood. I've also always wanted my children to have my last name, so my son has a double name (written with a dash, so it can not be simply removed, and it is pretty common in Quebec as well). My bf wasn't too happy about it in the beginning, but got used to it and now even likes how our son's name sounds.
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Postby tupacperu » Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:24 pm

Maybe I am a little bit macho here, but I see why alot of guys do not want to get married. To me it is not a union with two different names. (old fashion)

my wife would have to carry my name. If not we would have to be boyfirend and girlfriend until we broke up.

I have always hypenated my kids names (lastnames), so that they would have both cultures in their name. But if my wife did not want my name, I would not want to have kids or marry.

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Postby anuta » Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:47 pm

tarollins wrote:Maybe I am a little bit macho here, but I see why alot of guys do not want to get married. To me it is not a union with two different names. (old fashion)

my wife would have to carry my name. If not we would have to be boyfirend and girlfriend until we broke up.



There's more to the marriage than the name...And if a lot of guys do not want to get married supposedly because they don't want a wife who wants to keep the name she identifies with since her birth, it's kind of silly...

I'll be saying something obvious if I remind you that having the same last name has nothing to do with union.

My father is a bit of a macho too, but strangely enough he didn't complain that I gave my last name (i.e. his last name) to my son. My father has three daughters, so thanks to me (and my sister who thinks like me and will give his name to her future children), his name can continue :D
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Postby mammalu » Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:27 pm

tarollins wrote:Maybe I am a little bit macho here, but I see why alot of guys do not want to get married. To me it is not a union with two different names. (old fashion)

my wife would have to carry my name. If not we would have to be boyfirend and girlfriend until we broke up.

I have always hypenated my kids names (lastnames), so that they would have both cultures in their name. But if my wife did not want my name, I would not want to have kids or marry.

Chau

Porque paga por la vaca cuando la leche esta gratis "mi madre"


I would even go further... (please don't throw rocks at me!). Why get married if you are not planning to have children?

If I was not going to have kids, I don't see the need to get married.

I had a disagreement with my sister about changing my name (in the US) for my husband's last name. Most of my friends in Peru they use only their maiden name, I believe it is easier not to change all their legal documents. My personal opinion: I loved it when I took my husband's name. For me, it showed my full commitment, but everybody is entitled to their opinion.
Stand with anybody that stands RIGHT. Stand with him while he is right and PART with him when he goes wrong." ! Abraham Lincoln
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Postby naturegirl » Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:53 pm

I did the Peruvian thing when I got married and added the "de" on my US and Peruvian docs, the Romanian ones are still in tramite. I wanted people in Peru to KNOW taht I was married.
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Postby tomsax » Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:34 am

The tradition of the women taking the name of the husband is a tradition and there seems no doubt its a sexist tradition. Why shouldn´t the husband take the surname of the wife or keep his but put de ___ at the end and the wife just keeping her name as it is? That would be equally unfair but no more so.

I get annoyed with Peruvians who argue that the British/US tradition of losing the wifes surname is sexist (which is true) but then fail to appreciate that the Peruvian tradition of a child only having the first surname of their two grandfathers but nothing from their two grandmothers almost amounts to the same thing. Basically a womens surname disappears in one generation (UK, US etc) and in two in Peru etc. Big difference!

We all have four grandparents (8 great grandparents etc) each one usually with a different surname so we have to cut some out.

The tradition of dropping women´s surnames has been the tradition for almost all cultures for hundreds of years. We should probably swap over now to dropping the mans surname for a few hundred years just to balance it out.

I think the mother is usually more influential to a child´s personality than the father simply because they usually spend more time with them, so it is also more logical that a child takes their mother´s surname (and that of the mother´s grandmother and not the mother´s grandfather).

Having said all this I don´t want this to happen to my son as my sense of self and worth is completely dependant on my son taking forward my fathers name and my wife seems quite submissive to the idea. So please ignore everything I´ve just said for another 100 years.
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Postby tupacperu » Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:37 am

mammalu
(EXACTLY)
Then we can say marriage is a piece of paper. Why get married if you are not going to have kids (I totally agree).

Getting married to a woman is important.(the public confession of love)
To carry your husbands name is important to men (most). (Public confession that you are a part of his klan, tribe)

To me they are mutually inclusive.

Like I said (maybe it is macho). But then again I am married for exclusivity in a relationship. Keeping her maiden name to me that would be a sign that a woman wants and values independence.

To me an independent woman is just that, independent, which mean that there is no need for a man or anyone in your life.

Which bring me to the reason I married, to depend on my wife and she on me to accomplish the things we desire in life.


So to me a married independent woman or man is an oxy-moron. How can you be married and be an independent, yes independent in career, I agree. But like everything in life there is a natural order. So for me 2 independent people have no relationship, they are mutually exclusive.


Just my personal take.

Personally, I enjoyed the single life and the many dating options that are available.

But even more I revere marriage as something sacred and beautiful. When it functions in it natural order I find that I am at my happiest time in my life. So, I prefer marriage, but I can live in either state happily single or married.

If I cannot have the exclusivity on my wife carrying my last name then I prefer not to get married, because the next argument is what name my kids will carry. If the woman feels strongly about her lastname then there will be another set of problems in the future.

My stepson (6) now carries my lastname. He is Peruvian. We changed it for continuity and ease of life. Too many questions. It cost me alot to change it, but it was that important to me , even though he has always called me papi.

This is my personal opinion and respect those of others.

Which reminds me (hehehe). of double standards: aside from this theme.

The other day my wife and I were looking at football players and some bios on them (american football). There was a black guy who had been working out. She said "wow look at his butt, he has a nice butt" hehehe

I chuckled and said, then it is ok if I watch the women from the selva shaking there butts dancing and comment on the nice butts they have.

She said , no that is different. (I am not the jealous type.) But how is that any different. Go figure?

hehehe
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Re: married name change

Postby cledman » Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:09 am

That being the case, my Peruvian wife (with a sentence for a name) is now enrolling in Cenfotur. They insist that there is no place for my name on any of her forms and that she must use her maiden names.
Anyone else run in to this? I am more than a little irritated.
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Re: married name change

Postby kristidnyc » Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:05 am

I'm married. I don't have kids. Never wanted kids. But I'm very happy to be married to my soul mate.

We married because I needed a green card in the US, otherwise we would have just stayed together. BUT the fact that we are married have brought us closer together, so I'm glad fate and stupid immigration laws made us take that step.

I took my husband's last name for the same reason, for immigration purposes. Otherwise I would have kept my maiden name, which I really really miss. Now unofficially I often use both : First Name, Maiden Name, Husban'd Name.

I find it ridiculous to say that you wouldn't marry if your wife didn't take your name, or that people shouldn't get married if they don't want to have kids. That's not what marriage is about. It's about union, sharing, love, companionship, friendship...

If you want to have kids and take your spouse's name, fine. But please respect other people who chose a different way of living, including someone you may love and want to marry. Yours is not the only right way.
Last edited by kristidnyc on Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: married name change

Postby kristidnyc » Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:07 am

Oh, and the main reason I don't want to become a Peruvian citizen is because I would be given a name that's not mine, e.g., my mother's maiden name. WTF? Why can't the Peruvian's accept that I already have a name.

Although, I do love Peru and the Peruvians.

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