Peruvian system for giving names vs anglo system

Answers to your qestions about moving to, and living in, Peru,
Rene
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Re: Peruvian system for giving names vs anglo system

Postby Rene » Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:21 pm

americorps wrote:your quote is confusing, it appears from what you said that Craig said that I said that. I did not say that, Craig did.

Apologies, I have corrected it.


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naturegirl
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Re: Peruvian system for giving names vs anglo system

Postby naturegirl » Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:11 pm

It-s changing though. Like before you could delete your mother-s name if you added the "de" Not anymore. I-ve now got FOUR words for my last name, if you count the "de"

There are compound first and last names, likeMaria de los Angelos, del Rios, etc.

I know for our kids we-re going to give them three first names. If that-s not allowed, we-ll simply hyphenate one :)
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Re: Peruvian system for giving names vs anglo system

Postby naturegirl » Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:24 pm

antonio wrote:Antonella:

RENIEC is the organization for the register or names of the people in Peru and marital status ("estado civil"), they could give you information about the uses of "de"... but who knows more is a lawyer (abogado civil) or judge (juez civil). They can confirm or not that the uses of "de" is obligatory or not..



It-s not. YOu can EITHER keep your maiden name OR keep your maiden name AND add the de

So it-s Doe Smith
or
Doe Smith de Perez.
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naturegirl
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Re: Peruvian system for giving names vs anglo system

Postby naturegirl » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:00 pm

antonio wrote:And.. another question to anyone who has a peruvian DNI. How does the RENIEC deal with just one lastname. Is the second one left blank ?

I am quite sure that this post is going to be very useful to expats in Peru.

Thanks for sharing ideas..

They Don-t. I was TOLD that ALL Peruvians MUST have two last names. You fill out a form stating your parents' names. And they give you your new last names
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Re: Peruvian system for giving names vs anglo system

Postby susita83 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:20 pm

LOL

It's going to be pretty confusing when we move there. I did it the American way and took my hubby's last name, but in Peru that would make me a sister or something :lol: Oh well, we'll see what happens.
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Re: Peruvian system for giving names vs anglo system

Postby rama0929 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:31 pm

One thing I have learned is that Rafael Amaya is a very common spanish name... And there are several people with that name that have run afoul of the law.

Coming back from Montreal, in 2003 (I live in NY), I was detained for a couple of hours by DHS. After they let me go, I asked what was the problem. Apparently, there was a Rafael Amaya from Colombia that was deported, and they thought I was him. I was born in the Bronx, and my family's from Honduras, so the Gov't was wrong on both counts :lol:

My father tells me of a time the authorities came looking for me when I was 5... For tax evasion.
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Re: Peruvian system for giving names vs anglo system

Postby Cachalote » Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:43 pm

Well,
I just married a Peruvian and I am dealing with immigration forms so that she may come to the states.
We married at the municipality in Brena. Our documents all say her pre-marriage name and my name.

For our documents for the US government, she is telling me to refer to her as "de Mi apellido"..? I question this because all of our Peru documents indicate her name is the same as before.

Can anyone offer some info as to what is the correct way to proceed? I hate the time and effort wasted in sending incorrect information to the government....and waiting even longer.

Thanks;)
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Re: Peruvian system for giving names vs anglo system

Postby Polaron » Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:35 pm

In Argentina, use of the "apellido materno" is uncommon. So if your name is Juan Carlos Pérez, then you are Juan Carlos Pérez, not Juan Carlos Pérez Maldonado, or whatever your mother's maiden name might be. Just like in Gringolandia. Personally, I happen to like the two-last-name system. I agree, it helps reduce the possibility of running into one's own doppelganger, in a manner of speaking. It is also typically latino, and I like that. It is common in America (with few exceptions, notably Argentina) and also in Spain.

Let's face it, the naming system worldwide is pretty sexist. It's usually the male surname that prevails in just about any culture you can find. For reasons of practicality, one of the surnames must disappear, otherwise you'd get someone with a string of names. Juan Carlos Pérez, whose mother's last name is Maldonado, and his grandmothers' last names are: Zedillo and Labastida on his father's side and Moreno and Gutiérrez on his mother's side, would then be: Juan Carlos Pérez Maldonado Zedillo Moreno Labastida Gutiérrez, that that's just counting his four grandmothers!

So yes, either the father's or the mother's last name must eventually go away and must by virtue of that fact be sexist. I don't see how we could remove the sexist option without either switching names to numbering schemes or arbitrarily assigning a new last name that is not related to either family. If we do that, I would vote for using Náhuatl, since it is a dead language and is hard for most people to pronounce anyway (if we're going to make radical changes, why not go whole hog).

Then we could have Juan Carlos Achcauhtli (we might as well give him a last name denoting leadership). :shock: :lol: :wink: :twisted: :mrgreen:
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Re: Peruvian system for giving names vs anglo system

Postby LauraMH » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:35 pm

we just had a little girl, born in peru.

so of course her name will be first name second name and our last names. (we chose a short first name as the last names are long).

but now i have to decide what we are going to do for her US passport/ID etc.

I am leaning toward just first, middle dad's last name. i think having both our names in the US would be a hindrance and make it more complicated than necessary. since the system is really built that way.

but my husband said...then she'd have 2 legal names. yea....

i didn't change my name in peru or the usa. i think it would be too complicated and time consuming to do. i am in my late 30's and thinking of all the things that are legal documents with my name is overwhelming. so i am not planning on changing it. so i'd have a different last name than my daughter.

thoughts? comments? anyone else dealt with this?
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Re: Peruvian system for giving names vs anglo system

Postby tomsax » Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:34 am

My wife here in the UK has the hassle of people not understanding how she can possibly have two surnames. But it is easily accepted when you put a dash/hyphon between the names, which she has done for her recent bank account. This makes it "double barrelled" which in the UK looks quite posh so she is all the happier!

If your husband is okay with that, that could be an option for your daughter. If it was a son he might be thinking about his name carrying on through future generations(without the extra bit) like it has come down to him. I've found myself becoming surprisingly chauvanist and conservative about this issue now I have had a son myself!
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Re: Peruvian system for giving names vs anglo system

Postby MelissaM » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:53 pm

I understand the double name, but I have no interest in using it. Which has lead to many interesting discussions with my fiance, especially when it comes to the topic of future children. When I get married, I do not want to keep my maiden name. I want his name and for us to be one happy family sharing the same name. I like the cohesiveness of that. When it comes to children, he argues people will not know he is the father if his name is not before mine. I don't think my name has to be there for people to know who the daddy is.

I would say use the extra name in Peru, but not in the US, but does that lead to conflicts with documents? Is it even possible to not use the "extra" maternal name for a child born in Peru?

This is an emotional issue. We both have an attachment to our way of doing it. What an interesting discussion.
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Re: Peruvian system for giving names vs anglo system

Postby LauraMH » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:59 am

it is an emotional issue.

i prefer as the previous post to have the same last name for the whole family and I would prefer to change my name to my husbands last name for my US identity, but living in Peru it is a nightmare to do all the paperwork and all the things I'd have to change. think about how much of your life is attached to your SS# and your name. so for now I'm not going to do it. although i'd like to.

in peru is isn't an option to just have 1 last name. in fact it is a problem to only have 1 last name. i've had problems in hospitals and other places with them locating me. for EsSalud I have my last name and xxxx for the other last name. it's annoying. the system here is made for 2 names as the system in others is made for 1.

i have considered the hypenating last name for our daughter for her US name, but it would be so long....how annoying to have to write such a long name. I just don't want to create problems for her.

in an idea world we'd all have the same family name if possible, but it doesn't seem like it.
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Re: Peruvian system for giving names vs anglo system

Postby Kelly » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:37 pm

I'd like to take my husband's last name eventually, both here and in the US. It just seems to me that's part of being married. I sign most things here Kelly Cannon de Borda, sign the boys' school papers Kelly Borda. Anything official, I sign Kelly Cannon, per my passport/CE. For the bank, before we were married, I needed 2 last names, so I just gave them my mom's maiden name and they were happy with that.

It's not as emotional a thing for me as it seems to be for a lot of people, probably because I grew up with extended step-families - not only were my parents divorced and remarried, I had divorced/widowed and remarried grandparents too. It's a miracle to find more than 2 people in our family with the same last name. :D
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Re: Peruvian system for giving names vs anglo system

Postby rgamarra » Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:30 pm

In Peru I've always used my married name (first name and spouse's last name). However, my children in the U.S. and Peru have my maiden last name and husband's last name. While it doesn't cause any problems in Peru, since it's the norm, it's been a bit of a pain in the U.S.

I'm considering a legal name change for my children in the U.S. so I can drop my maiden name and only keep the paternal last name for them.

My recommendation, is if your children are born outside of Peru, name them according to your country's custom. If they are born in Peru and you want to get them dual citizenship documents, then have their documents from your country, again, reflect the naming standard of your country.

I was the one that insisted to put both last names for my children, while my husband (Peruvian) objected. Now that hindsight is 20/20 he had good reason to object.

On the other hand, I should have done my CE the Peruvian way. I didn't get my Peruvian citizenship when I could, b/c my home and bank accounts in Peru are in my U.S. name. Peruvian citizenship would require that I change my name and of course changing names on official documents in Peru is a pain in the rear.

As for people not understanding the two surnames, I found it funny that my husband's family could not understand the single surname. I had to show them my U.S. driver's license to prove that a married woman can use just her husband's last name.
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Re: Peruvian system for giving names vs anglo system

Postby sarahdavida » Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:20 pm

oh my goodness...we are having a VERY big problem with this issue, for different reasons

I had already dropped my maiden name and took my husband´s in the USA, so when I was about to get my Carnet de Extranjeria we fought to explain that I only had ONE last name and it was that of my husband´s...so the person drawing up the final documents let that stick, instead of explaining I would be forced to change my name if I were ever to become a citizen. Before I became a citizen, we had a child and his paternal and maternal last names were the same, since that was the "apellido maternal" on my Residency card...BUT when I got my Peruvian citizenship, they said it didn´t matter what name was on the residency card, i would have to change it to follow the Peruvian custom, so NOW whenever we fly out of the country, it´s a problem, because my son´s apellido maternal does not reflect my name...they´ve always allowed us through, because we bring copies of all the other documents to show and explain why it´s this way, but it´s a BIG PAIN and we are now going to see about changing his name legally to reflect the apellido paternal and maternal correctly...ugh!

in the states, we just kept the one last name, but because of all this I am now considering changing BACK to my maiden name in the States as well (or at least, hyphenated), so all my documents are more uniform...what a headache!

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