Rene wrote:scott wrote:Excellent, one less contrarian to clutter the streets of Peru.
Hmmm, you make such a personal attack while you get all upset about a personal remark from Wine Lover. (which he respectfully removed). Says a lot about what kind of person you are...
Although I take the term "contrarian" as a compliment assuming it means that I'm an independent thinker...
Instead of making such remarks maybe you could start answering some of the questions I left behind for you...
The murder would have taken place on Sunday morning, but the body wasn't found until Tuesday! Nobody cleans in that hotel?
And I guess we'll never find out the real cause of death. It is already multiple choice of the following options mentioned in the media:
a. blow to the head
b. broken neck
c. knife stabbing
Rene wrote:scott wrote:At what point did I ever state I do not support the rule of law?scott wrote:I, like most of the world, think he got away with murder in Aruba. The category is news and VIEWS. I am expressing my view.
By not following the basic rule of law "innocent until proven guilty" (which you do with your opinion in the Holloway case) you already put the rule of law aside. It doesn't matter if that is "just an opinion". The only things that keep you from acting upon that opinion is that you're not a judge (thank God) nor a criminal yourself (I hope).
8I would suggest to remove that post. You really do not want to go there with me.
rgamarra wrote:I was surprised by how quick the Peruvian authorities were to point the finger at Joran for this girl's murder and I find it odd that Joran would know how to use the Tacna/Arica border to leave the country...It certainly makes one go "hmmm?"
scott wrote:No, I was thinking contrarian along the lines of you are trying to present the perception of independent thought, but failing...
scott wrote:I think Kelly took care of answering your questions, by all means... let me try as well.
americorps wrote:8I would suggest to remove that post. You really do not want to go there with me.
Threats are for bullies.
FHCZ wrote:For those of you fearing that this young monster (I am not saying or implying he is guilty of this murder, but he is a monster) will not get a fair trial here in Peru, I am pleased to say, fear no more. He will get a fair trial since Peru is resorting to the International Court of Justice (at the Hague) to settle a maritime territorial dispute with Chile. For image sake, it is a of national interest that he get a fair trial.
american_in_lima wrote:rgamarra wrote:I was surprised by how quick the Peruvian authorities were to point the finger at Joran for this girl's murder and I find it odd that Joran would know how to use the Tacna/Arica border to leave the country...It certainly makes one go "hmmm?"
Actually, the cab drivers who drove him there, after his picture was all over the news, told the police. At the time, there was no warrant for his capture.
I can come up with several hypothesis. It's again up to the police to proof it.american_in_lima wrote:Maybe on the first one with Holloway, he could have been innocent. But now twice?
See, this is the danger of public opinion. You're already the second one here who's suggesting he is serial killer while the first case hasn't even been proven yet.american_in_lima wrote:5 years has gone by and I would not be surprised to hear about another murdered girl as well.
american_in_lima wrote:Him being guilty is pretty much logical and common sense.
1. Dead girl found in his hotel room. He left the hotel, but didn't say anything about the dead girl in his room?
2. Confession on tape about his Holloway experience. The fact that he did it once doesn't mean he will do it again, but it is pretty compelling. Same circumstances with how he met both of them.
3. Video surveillance of him with Flores at Hotel and Casino
4. Hotel clerk last saw them both entering the hotel room and admits to a "fight" between them
5. Joran gets a cab to Chile for S/. 1700? Expensive trip when you can just fly unless you are actually not able to because you did something wrong.
Call me an armchair CSI, but pretty common sense here folks.
rgamarra wrote:but then again we aren't Peruvian citizens, so we are entitled to nothing.
rgamarra wrote:So is he innocent of extortion? I'm sure the U.S. has trumped up those charges, too, right? This kid has already proven that he is prone to criminal behavior...Extortion charges come as no surprise.
scott wrote:your superior logic skills and common sense
It just saddens me more and more that there are so many people who rather jump to conclusions than to observe critically and let the police do a proper investigation. Not just in this case. It shows that society has not evolved at all since the middle ages...
scott wrote:They took him by car because all available aircraft were previously allocated to the OAS meeting.
Rene wrote:And you're telling me that the Peruvian government couldn't come up with any other airplane? Or a military helicopter? Did they not evaluate the risks of taking him over the road? When I read a day ago that he was going to be taken by car I was already expecting problems. Blockade of the panamerican highway, people armed etc. In Peru one can expect anything. Why doesn't the police think of that?
Kelly wrote:This is the part I don't get. I agree with most everything you've said. While I think the evidence (including his behaviour) available to the public at this time points to his guilt, it is pretty much circumstantial - but I don't see how anyone in this thread has said or implied that the police shouldn't do a proper investigation. While there are a few of us who opine that he seems to be guilty, not one of us has suggested that he be drawn and quartered without a fair trial.
Rene wrote:It has already taken place in the car transport debacle. It will happen again in Lima. It is thus saddening that a suspect (not a convicted criminal) needs police protection against the angry mob.
Add things up. Have you seen the video of him walking into the hotel room with her?....Then he left...She never left. He was obviously the last one to see her in that hotel room. She obviously didn't die from natural causes.
Here is the video:
But it still doesn't proof anything about the Holloway case.
iskndarbey wrote:Rene wrote:It has already taken place in the car transport debacle. It will happen again in Lima. It is thus saddening that a suspect (not a convicted criminal) needs police protection against the angry mob.
This is your third post about the "car transport debacle". Nothing happened to him! Nobody even threw anything at him or made any visible threats! Remember, the Peruvian public is presumed innocent of conspiracy to commit murder until proven guilty....
iskndarbey wrote:Remember, the Peruvian public is presumed innocent of conspiracy to commit murder until proven guilty....
american_in_lima wrote:Rene: Joran admitted it in an undercover investigation. Then he later said that he lied about it when the video came out to protect himself.
iskndarbey wrote:The presumption of innocence means that he can't be legally convicted or punished until a fair trial has proved his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. It most certainly does not mean that interested bystanders are obligated to reach the conclusion that he is innocent, despite the preponderance of the evidence, until such time as he is legally convicted.
I find that as a society we have the responsibility to walk this path carefully and to weight the things we're saying. I at least tend to think that I'm trying to do the right thing. I'll leave it with that for now.
Alan wrote:ps. Scott... What is the picture you have drawn?
mammalu wrote:I see it now! It is a self-portrait of Scott, holding his head in despair.... LOL (what happened to your hair Scott? )
Van der Sloot has been a familiar face in the United States for years after he emerged as the prime suspect in the 2005 disappearance of Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway in Aruba. In Peru, however, he was virtually unknown.
``I had never heard of the case before,'' said Vanesa Bedyoa, a television reporter for Frecuencia Latina. ``But since this happened, we have been covering him nonstop. I am so tired of it.''
``About a year ago, another girl was killed in that same hotel under very similar circumstances,'' said Silvana Leigton, who runs a hair salon next to the TAC Hotel, which is known for its cheap rooms (singles start at $18 a night) and lobby-level casino. ``That case was only in the newspapers for a day. But this time, the victim's father is well known and has a lot of money.''
``This is very atypical, but I think it could be over soon,'' he said. ``If the confession holds up and they send him to jail then it simply becomes a procedural story and we can all go home.''
``Joran told his mother crying Monday that he was being interrogated under reasonably barbaric conditions,'' the paper quoted Bert De Rooij saying. ``He said the police were trying to force him to confess.''
Under such conditions, he said, the ``confession was possibly false.''
Many here take pride that their police have managed to close a case against the man who has been a suspect for so long.
``He probably thought he was in an undeveloped country and could get away with it,'' said Eduardo Noriega, 55, a cabdriver.
``He thought he could escape justice here. Now he knows crime doesn't pay.''