WAtch out Bodegas Walmart is coming

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tupacperu
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WAtch out Bodegas Walmart is coming

Postby tupacperu » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:59 am

http://www.andina.com.pe/Ingles/Noticia ... F5B8tlGxI=

Walmart is a step away from entering PERU. We knew it was coming. :-)


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Re: WAtch out Bodegas Walmart is coming

Postby Kelly » Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:23 pm

I hope they bring my Equate contact lens solution with them.
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Re: WAtch out Bodegas Walmart is coming

Postby JoshuS » Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:33 pm

tupacperu wrote:http://www.andina.com.pe/Ingles/Noticia.aspx?id=iLF5B8tlGxI=

Walmart is a step away from entering PERU. We knew it was coming. :-)


Terrible news for Peru.

“Mal-Mart” comes to town and slashes more than just prices…with a SMILE
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Re: WAtch out Bodegas Walmart is coming

Postby Wine Lover » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:10 pm

I dont think it wil have an effect on your local neighborhood bodega but it will affect many other businesses
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Re: WAtch out Bodegas Walmart is coming

Postby tupacperu » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:50 pm

travel dude

Re: WAtch out Bodegas Walmart is coming

Postby travel dude » Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:21 pm

I'll work for them and be a "gringo greeter"
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Re: WAtch out Bodegas Walmart is coming

Postby americorps » Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:46 pm

If they come, I wonder how they will change their model to adapt. In the US, part of their success is to take as little as 2% margin with an average of 3.5% while most stores make more than double that.

In Peru, the margins are already below that in most stores.
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Re: WAtch out Bodegas Walmart is coming

Postby american_in_lima » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:05 pm

Walmart has gone to other countries and seems to have adapted well. China and Brazil for example.
They have over 400 retail stores in Brazil as of 1995. In China, they have over 180 stores.

I think Peruvians will be open to it. They seem to crowd places like Saga, Ripley, Tottus and Plaza Vea Supercenters. Walmart seems to know that they need to adapt to the Peruvian style to do well.

Should be interesting. I am for it. It will employ lots of people and give consumers products at lower prices.

I wouldn't count them out.
Regards,

George
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Re: WAtch out Bodegas Walmart is coming

Postby americorps » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:59 pm

George, I could not disagree with you more.

There is too much evidence world wide that clearly shows when WalMart arrives, tax bases go down, wages go down, benefits for workers go down, so the 50 cents you save on your widget costs $1 in taxes to your community. Hardly worth the trade. I have not set foot in a WalMart in almost 10 years and I never will.

My uncle made a small tool they wanted to buy and they pushed pretty hard for a price that cut his profit to almost nothing, and that is fine, but then when they agreed, they did not send him a contract to sign, but instead 2 round trip tickets to China.

Why? Because they wanted him to sign the contract in Chine under Chinese law that is MUCH more favorable to big business.

He sent the tickets back with words written on them that would get me moderated here on the board.

They also so under-employee people that some of their bigger stores in the US actually have social workers that help their employees apply for federal entitlements such as food stamps, section 8 housing and medicare...increasing our tax liability that really ends up subsidising wages and benefits for their employees.

I will never understand anyone who feels saving 50 cents on a widget is worth that price.

WalMart is the ONLY country in the USA that has been convicted of anti-slavery laws sine the 1950's.
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Re: WAtch out Bodegas Walmart is coming

Postby american_in_lima » Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:25 pm

That is the nice thing about the world we live in. The buyer gets a choice to enter the store or not to enter the store. I guarantee that the place will be packed with Peruvians.
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Re: WAtch out Bodegas Walmart is coming

Postby markr » Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:27 pm

american_in_lima wrote:That is the nice thing about the world we live in. The buyer gets a choice to enter the store or not to enter the store. I guarantee that the place will be packed with Peruvians.


I guarantee there will be quite a few expats right behind them, including me.
Last edited by markr on Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WAtch out Bodegas Walmart is coming

Postby Kelly » Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:31 pm

If Walmart can give me bottles of aspirin and contact lens solutions for a decent price, I'll be right there.
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Re: WAtch out Bodegas Walmart is coming

Postby american_in_lima » Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:54 am

I am a fan of Walmart. They have good prices, have good customer service (I have had never had a problem), employ a diverse workforce and have clean stores.

I will definitely shop there assuming the prices are lower.
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George
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Re: WAtch out Bodegas Walmart is coming

Postby falcon123 » Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:18 am

They have good prices(slave labor, heavily subsidized products), have good customer service
(of course usually all their competition dies and after that they have the lowest salaries),
employ a diverse workforce (legal, illegal and slaves).

Looks like slavery will be coming back soon all over America (South, North and Central)
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Re: WAtch out Bodegas Walmart is coming

Postby americorps » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:16 am

It is a trait I see all too often on this board.

If it does not bother the privelaged, it is not a problem.

BCP has a history of loosing money in ATM´s. It resolves in favor of a gringo who compalins, so it is not a problem even though the lower income Peruvians do not get the same resolution.

WalMart makes a buck off slave labor and with tax subsidies, but that does not directly effect the gringo who saves 50 cents on a widget. Too bad that the hardworking mom and pops go under, that wages take a hit, that government subsidises the wages of employees with benefits and through tax breaks. That they make vendors sign contracts under Chinese contract law...as long as they can see a smile at the door and think they saved 50 cents, everything is paradise.

In fact, according to a memo from Walmart corporate, the US provides over half a billion dollars in subsidies to WalMart employees for health care alone. When you add in all entitlements to the WalMart under employeed, that figure doubles to over 1 Billion dollars a year. That does not count the local tax breaks and subisdies that add up to over another half billion dollars a year. Further, when you balance the tax subsides with the increased tax revenue generated form WalMart sales, the US operates at a net loss. Much fuss is made about WalMart becomming the biggest local contributors to sales tax in many of their locations, but they forget to mention that sales tax receipts as a whole usually stay steady or even go down. That means that the sales are shifted to Walmart, not increased and with fewer people earning a living wage, there are fewer dollars available to spend in the community.

It is an interesting cycle, they make a community more poor so they feel they can only afford to shop at WalMart. And much of the world buys that game hook line and sinker.

Bring that to Peru on the Walmart scale would be disasterous and inhuman.
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Re: WAtch out Bodegas Walmart is coming

Postby Kelly » Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:33 pm

Can you back up those claims with some documentation? I've spent about an hour searching, and while I find tons of claims against Walmart, I don't find any sort of verification. And nothing about the slavery conviction. I remember hearing about it at the time - something about keeping them locked in after their shift was over?

I did find that Walmart was nearly charged with labor racketeering because of having illegal janitors in working in their stores. The workers were actually employed by a contractor, but it seems Walmart execs knew it was going on. http://money.cnn.com/2003/10/23/news/co ... r_arrests/

Other than that, most of what I find is a lot of he said/she said with very little to back it up, or with conflicting studies. What does stick out though, is that many of the accusations, complaints and criticism that I could find seem to come from competitors or ex-employees. I think that any corporation of this magnitude is going to have naysayers and conspiracy theorist and gruntled ex-employees with an axe to grind out to get them. I'd just be interested in seeing facts rather than accusations.
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Re: WAtch out Bodegas Walmart is coming

Postby americorps » Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:41 pm

WAL-MART Costs Taxpayers $1,557,000,000,00 to Support its Employees

* "The Democratic Staff of the Committee on Education and the Workforce estimates that one 200-person Wal-Mart store may result in a cost to federal taxpayers of $420,750 per year - about $2,103 per employee. Specifically, the low wages result in the following additional public costs being passed along to taxpayers:
o $36,000 a year for free and reduced lunches for just 50 qualifying Wal-Mart families.
o $42,000 a year for Section 8 housing assistance, assuming 3 percent of the store employees qualify for such assistance, at $6,700 per family.
o $125,000 a year for federal tax credits and deductions for low-income families, assuming 50 employees are heads of household with a child and 50 are married with two children.
o $100,000 a year for the additional Title I expenses, assuming 50 Wal-Mart families qualify with an average of 2 children.
o $108,000 a year for the additional federal health care costs of moving into state children's health insurance programs (S-CHIP), assuming 30 employees with an average of two children qualify.
o $9,750 a year for the additional costs for low income energy assistance."

* The total figure is based on the average $420,750 per-store figure, multiplied by 3700 (the approximate number of stores currently in the United States).

* Source: Rep. George Miller / Democratic Staff of the Committee on Education and the Workforce, "Everyday Low Wages: The Hidden Price We All Pay for Wal-Mart", February 16, 2004.


http://www.walmartmovie.com/facts.php


The line between labor rights violations and human trafficking can become blurred and labor rights violations can quickly lead to human trafficking situations. Lance Compa, cites a recent example. Workers that cleaned Wal-Mart stores filed a class action lawsuit for allegedly not complying with a minimum wage, overtime, and health and safety laws. There was also an amended complaint that claimed the company would lock the doors to prevent the workers from leaving the store.[25] All of these actions have to be weighed against the legal definition of human trafficking. While this case is being prosecuted as human trafficking, it is evident how similar cases can develop into modern day slavery.


http://coastlinejournal.com/2009/07/16/ ... ery-party/
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Re: WAtch out Bodegas Walmart is coming

Postby Ron » Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:07 pm

I agree with Americorps on this one. It only makes sense to shop at those stores around where you live because they are generally owned by your neighbors. This is one of the things I love about Peru. Fresh fruit here and flowers there not to mention stopping of for empanadas on the way home. It's fantastic!!! Hit the big box stores if you can't source something locally, but give your neighbors the majority of your business!!!
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Re: WAtch out Bodegas Walmart is coming

Postby mahou123 » Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:38 pm

There is clearly a lack of competition between supermarket chains in Peru. Market is basically divided between 3 companies: 2 Chilean ones (one runs Metro/Wong, another Tottus/Sodimac) and 1 Peruvian (Plaza Vea). Only Sodimac is remotely similar to Walmart. As a result, things that are not popular with Peruvians and not available at local bodegas, are seriously overpriced. Good olive oil - more than 30 soles a litre, French mustard - 14 soles for little jar, blue cheese, decent wine, German beer, toys, the list can go on and on. If few big multinational operators entered the market and started a price war, consumers would definitely gain on such things. As for groceries, I don´t think they could drive local markets and bodegas out of business, their operating costs would be higher anyway. No point in comparing Peru with US here, Peruvian small businesses sometimes make just few soles every day and don´t pay any taxes, salaries, advertising or rent.
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Re: WAtch out Bodegas Walmart is coming

Postby falcon123 » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:05 pm

Those Items are not overpriced, there is simply not enough demand for them to justify
a lower price.

Right now the competition is fine between the markets as the prices are lower from what
they used to be when the regular district markets with street vendors were the only competition.

Whenever a multinational enters the market they will offer what the consumers want but obviously
they will not lower the prices on items that are not consumed by most people.

:twisted:
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Re: WAtch out Bodegas Walmart is coming

Postby Kelly » Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:08 pm

Americorps - Thanks for the links, the first one especially is good.

I think I'll stick with my original statement though - if they can get my contact lens solution and aspirin down here, I'll be there.

But I don't think I'll stop shopping at Mercado #2 anytime soon for pretty much everything else. ;)
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Re: WAtch out Bodegas Walmart is coming

Postby iron butterfly » Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:47 pm

gone
Last edited by iron butterfly on Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WAtch out Bodegas Walmart is coming

Postby americorps » Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:34 pm

The facts are that when WalMart enters a market, wages go down and people earning benefits such as health care goes down, so when you state you are earning the same as you would at a mom and pop operation, that is simply not true.

And the article of referring to a family of 3.

You should read a little deeper.
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Re: WAtch out Bodegas Walmart is coming

Postby iron butterfly » Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:56 pm

gone
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Re: WAtch out Bodegas Walmart is coming

Postby americorps » Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:21 pm

first of all, your false statement about Socialized health care makes you difficult to communicate with. You keep saying things that are not true. No definition of socialism applies to what is happening in the US, it is just a sound bite, and even if you fall for the soundbite, it is socialized insurance, not health care, at best.

Further, there are literally hundreds of studies out there that show wage and tax hits after WalMart comes. I accuse you directly of making this a partisan issue instead of a factual issue and I believe you will simply dismiss any evidence that does not conform to your opinion.

The facts remain, WalMart employees social workers in many of their larger stores just to help employees apply for benefits. The facts remain, sales tax does not rise due to WalMart, the facts remain that wages go down when WalMart comes to town and the fact remains that the number of full time workers with benefits goes down when WalMart comes into a community.

This is the case for most small to mid town stores across the country.

The fact remains, they were convicted of human trafficing and memos show that Bentonville knew about it.

The fact remains they use Chinese Contract law

At best, your argument is that the figure is less than reported. Does that excuse it?

The fact remains, our tax dollars subsidise WalMart and my project that to mean that we subsidise the loss of US living wage jobs.
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Re: WAtch out Bodegas Walmart is coming

Postby rgamarra » Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:43 pm

I don't think Walmart is going to lower already low wages in Peru. All the big chain stores in Peru buy products that are made by foreign slave labor. The TLC between Peru and China is only going to ensure that you keep buying sweat-shop produced goods.

I worked for Walmart when I was a teenager. They are very anti-union and have a video encouraging their employees to refuse joining a union (even though the same video lets you know that it's illegal for them to prevent you from joining.)

There is also massive brain washing, especially amongst department managers. I have never seen people so loyal to the Walmart brand. It's about as bad as Disney (and I've been through the Disney washing machine, too.)

The worst I saw was how Walmart management pushed their already overworked and overwhelmed cashiers to increase the number of people they move through their check outs. These cashiers that received a verbal lashing over numbers were already working at full capacity.

As far as good customer service, that depends on what store you go to. I've had a Walmart cashier try to kick me out of a line that the manager had sent me to, because he wanted to get off. They were short on cashiers that night and taking a couple of extra people to help out his team mates wasn't going to hurt him.

Walmart is the largest private employer world wide and it was only a matter of time that Walmart would make its way into Peru one way or another.

Despite all the negatives, I won't stop shopping at Walmart. It's like having to choose between shopping at "the lesser of the two evils." How many of you choose to shop at Plaza Vea over Metro/Wong because Wong sold out to the Chileans? The majority of consumers are going to shop at the place that saves them a sol or two, regardless of where the products come from or how management treats their employees.

Like Kelly said, I won't stop shopping at Mercado #2 or in my case the local farmer's markets or stores. I enjoy buying locally made products and produce, but when I need something in particular that Walmart sells for cheap, then I go to Walmart to save a buck or two.
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Re: WAtch out Bodegas Walmart is coming

Postby euroman » Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:40 am

I always shop at markets and bodegas.

There are only 3 supermarkets in Tarapoto. They are filthy, small and vegetables and fruit is almost rotten.
Ther are about 50 markets. Who offer fresh things but you have to get up early to buy meat and fish because none has fridges.

And generally the markets and small bodegas sell things cheaper.

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